Would anyone turn down Harvard?

Started by glinkov
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wammabamma said:
Why so much hate on the Harvard interviewing process and Harvard itself? Everyone i met in the office was nice and so were both of my interviewers. in fact, they were some of the 2 kindest and most humble interviewers i had on my entire interview trail.

I had dinner the night before my interview with about 15 Harvard MS1s. They were all really down to earth and genuine people. If you've had direct experience with HMS people, then fine speak your mind. For the rest of you, please dont spread stupid and negative rumors you hear about HMS on these forums or elsewhere.
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Ditto. I have known more HMS students than I can count right now, and all of the rumors and preconceptions that fill this thread are poorly conceived and say more about the character of the individual posters than the people they are making generalizations about.
 
med007 said:
Ditto. I have known more HMS students than I can count right now, and all of the rumors and preconceptions that fill this thread are poorly conceived and say more about the character of the individual posters than the people they are making generalizations about.
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Shrug. There have been a few ridiculous posts in this thread, but nothing that I've seen that really "speaks negatively of anyone's character." Some of you may be taking this a bit toooo seriously.

Harvard interviews about 5 applicants per acceptance letter. On my interview day, there were about 20 kids and the atmosphere was much less comfortable/personal than at some other schools of similar caliber. The orientation and student-led tour were about average. My student interviewer was charming and personable, but the tour guides seemed a bit preoccupied and/or uninterested. The packet of information we received was above average. The food was acceptable but greasy. No current students came to chat with us at any time. The idea of any heat or open flames being used in Vanderbilt Hall would scare me. Boston is incredible but the school-term weather could be a turn off.

What does any of this have to do with HMS? Not really sure. But it is possible to be less than "wowed" by a ~24 hour interview visit. Would I turn down HMS for any other school? Probably not unless significant money was involved, though I am in love with NYC and Cornell/Columbia would be difficult to turn down.
 
Harvard people are weird. It is true. The medical school is great and their students become great doctors, but they are an odd bunch.

I have first hand knowledge of this. If you go to Harvard you are always going to be identified at an odd genius of sorts... 🙄
 
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I don't think prestige matters to some people but it does to a lot. I have one friend who went to the highest ranked school he got into even though his state school was substantially cheaper and they were pretty much ranked the same. I also have a friend who turned down U PENN to go to NJMS. His reasoning was that he felt NJMS had a better feel in terms of people and faculty. So to summarize I'm sure there are people who would turn down Harvard for their state school and also people who would turn down a full scholarship to Johns Hopkins to go to Harvard for that extra bit of prestige. To each their own really.
 
semi-epic bump. But an interesting topic nonetheless.

I think people that ruminate over whether a Harvard acceptance trumps all else either (1) value name recognition pretty highly or (2) don't really understand what goes into choosing a medical school.
 
comedone said:
Harvard people are weird. It is true. The medical school is great and their students become great doctors, but they are an odd bunch.

I have first hand knowledge of this. If you go to Harvard you are always going to be identified at an odd genius of sorts... 🙄
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powerbump.

and not really
 
If faced with an acceptance to Baylor vs acceptance to Harvard I'd pick Baylor hands out. I don't have any direct experience with Harvardites, but I do have plenty with Boston/Cambridge people.. way too many bleeding heart liberals (I'd seriously :boom:). Plus its way to cold. In my book Texas is blessed by God's own hand.

And Harvard doesn't have anything Baylor can't offer.
 
I went to Penn instead of HMS and have never regretted it for a minute. Seriously, #1 and #2 should be swapped in the US News rankings when you look at anything that remotely relates to student education / happiness.
 
I would turn down any school that I didn't get good vibes from, regardless of the name. I guess it depends on what each person is looking for in a school. A lot of people put a lot of weight into reputation, thus, for them, turning down Harvard would be infinitely stupid. Personally, I'm not one of those people.
 
IHeartNerds said:
I went to Penn instead of HMS and have never regretted it for a minute. Seriously, #1 and #2 should be swapped in the US News rankings when you look at anything that remotely relates to student education / happiness.
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Could you elaborate on this? I would like to hear about your experience at Penn, perhaps through a PM if you don't want to post here.

Thanks.
 
Morzh said:
If faced with an acceptance to Baylor vs acceptance to Harvard I'd pick Baylor hands out. I don't have any direct experience with Harvardites, but I do have plenty with Boston/Cambridge people.. way too many bleeding heart liberals (I'd seriously :boom:). Plus its way to cold. In my book Texas is blessed by God's own hand.

And Harvard doesn't have anything Baylor can't offer.
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I on the other hand could never go to Texas, because there are way too many half-witted yeehaw cowboys with terrible schooling.
 
If I got into Harvard, JH, Penn and whatever other top schools are out there (I know, fat chance:laugh:) I would choose Harvard since I live in Boston already and wouldn't have to move. I feel that at some point, the quality of education you receive at top schools barely changes so you will be trained properly wherever you go as long as you do the work. So, yea. Harvard baby.
 
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Without reading this all (just first and last page) most people point to other top schools they would choose over Harvard. The SDN posters tend to gear towards the more competitive people---personalities and statistics.

I wonder, almost believe there are alot of people who wouldn't go to Harvard given the chance for a run of the mill school.

I would have never gotten into Harvard. But, even if, I don't believe I would have gone. Looking at the website, their tuition alone is almost the amount I paid for EVERYTHING.

It's way farther away from my family than where I am now. At there current rate, I make a trip home roughly once a month, and get to spend time with my my family. If I'd gone to Harvard, Thanksgiving would be the first time. And it likely would have involved a not-so-cheap plane ticket.
 
even if i had the stats i wouldn't apply to harvard. but i am a nontraditional with kids and family and if i got accepted to the school in my hometown without a scholarship, i would still probably choose it over one i did get a scholarship at.
 
At one of the schools I interviewed at, the tour guide had gotten accepted to Harvard, but obviously he didn't choose to attend.
 
IHeartNerds said:
I went to Penn instead of HMS and have never regretted it for a minute. Seriously, #1 and #2 should be swapped in the US News rankings when you look at anything that remotely relates to student education / happiness.
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I doubt that students at Penn are much happier with their school than at Harvard. I imagine that both student population are similar in terms of stats, being driven and overall personality. Clearly same students (like yourself) chose between several top programs to get to where they are.

HMS is a great school. My classmates and I have a lot of fun and we like to think that we are the funnest med school in the country. I am sure every other student thinks their school is the best.

Choose Harvard or any other school if you feel like it is the best fit. The name helps but go to where you will like your classmates. I feel that HMS does a better job of choosing students who are both diverse and fit well together than many other places. But then again I am yet to experience another medical school.
 
naijaboi said:
HMS is a great school. My classmates and I have a lot of fun and we like to think that we are the funnest med school in the country. I am sure every other student thinks their school is the best.
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😕 you've been in medical school like four months, I doubt you can adequately judge your four-year education. My real issue with US News and World Report is the amount of weighting placed on research dollars (of course HMS wins, you guys have like 8000 faculty) and prestige. Neither of which has anything to do with true medical education.

My uncles may think I go to Penn State, but in all seriousness, I think Penn offers a great program with fantastic academic freedom. We have tons of time for extra electives, research, and any kind of extra degree you could want. We also have an absurdly supportive administration.

I agree with comfort/fit -- people who aren't good self-motivators can flail in our curriculum, and I've certainly seen exactly that.
 
1.John Hopkins (love the research esp in Neuro that they have done)
2.Washington University (Love the Campus and what I have heard about their program)
3. OHSU (Home State MD school,
4. UCSF
5. Stanford

When I hear "I want to go to Havard Med" I auto-assume they are pretentious.
 
Isn't this somewhat comparable to undergrad? After I got my letter from Vanderbilt I didn't care about my incoming letters from Northwestern and Cornell, even though they are "better schools". Better financial aid and a general feeling of comfort play a major part.

Turning down HMS would be difficult. Maybe I'd consider turning Harvard down for Penn, UCSF, Pitt (I just really like Pitt), or Northwestern (Feinberg's facilities are phenomenal). It'd be a tough choice though, and one that my sub-par GPA makes irrelevant to me personally :laugh:. Once you get to discussing these top schools, rankings aren't so important. Go wherever feels like a potential home to you, not just a place to get a degree. That's just one pre-med's opinion though...
 
Vandy Premed said:
Isn't this somewhat comparable to undergrad? After I got my letter from Vanderbilt I didn't care about my incoming letters from Northwestern and Cornell, even though they are "better schools". Better financial aid and a general feeling of comfort play a major part.

Turning down HMS would be difficult. Maybe I'd consider turning Harvard down for Penn, UCSF, Pitt (I just really like Pitt), or Northwestern (Feinberg's facilities are phenomenal). It'd be a tough choice though, and one that my sub-par GPA makes irrelevant to me personally :laugh:. Once you get to discussing these top schools, rankings aren't so important. Go wherever feels like a potential home to you, not just a place to get a degree. That's just one pre-med's opinion though...
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Sort of, but not really since for most people where you went to undergrad is fairly important. Regular businesses value "name brand" higher than med school admission committees. The latter have access to MCAT scores, letters of recommendation, personal statements, and a plethora of other indicators to evaluate and make better educated decisions off of, whereas managers hiring entry-level college grads pretty much get a short interview and resume and thats it. For them, the mere fact that you were accepted by the selective school makes you stand out against everybody else who went to the state school that accepts 90+% of its applicants.

For similar reasons, where an attorney went to law school or business student got his MBA is also more important than where a doctor went to med school since law schools, etc. send you into the job market immediately upon graduation.

For doctors, where you did your residency and how you performed there is many times over more important than where you went to medical school. And like med school adcoms, residency directors have a lot more important things to look at than school name when shopping for residents.
 
Not really the same, but I turned them down for undergrad in exchange for a full-ride to a much less well known small liberal arts school. And I'd do it again easily.

I'm already planning on turning down a top 30 school for a Texas public medical school also.

I think people overestimate how much a brand name will help you and don't think about cost/debt enough. When a lot of my peers will be a minimum of 250k in debt I'll be debt-free straight out of medical school.
 
If granted an acceptance to Harvard Med. right now, would anyone honestly choose a different school? Or is everyone's dream Harvard?
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The only thing I hate about HMS is the fact that people (esp college freshman w/ no clinical experience) ask questions like this about it. Medical school is not equal to undergrad. Your success as a doctor is going to be determined by your COMPETENCE not the name on your diploma.

That said, I'm sure that it's a fine institution for plenty of people's preferences, along with every other medical school in the country, and its medical anthropology programs and social mission sound really great!
 
Morzh said:
Sort of, but not really since for most people where you went to undergrad is fairly important. Regular businesses value "name brand" higher than med school admission committees. The latter have access to MCAT scores, letters of recommendation, personal statements, and a plethora of other indicators to evaluate and make better educated decisions off of, whereas managers hiring entry-level college grads pretty much get a short interview and resume and thats it. For them, the mere fact that you were accepted by the selective school makes you stand out against everybody else who went to the state school that accepts 90+% of its applicants.

For similar reasons, where an attorney went to law school or business student got his MBA is also more important than where a doctor went to med school since law schools, etc. send you into the job market immediately upon graduation.

For doctors, where you did your residency and how you performed there is many times over more important than where you went to medical school. And like med school adcoms, residency directors have a lot more important things to look at than school name when shopping for residents.
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Good points. Even discussing residency though, there is some disagreement on where are actually the best places to go. I've heard some people say that they've known better surgeons at a reputable small hospital than at somewhere like Mass Gen or NYPH. They said they were easier to get along with personally, and they had a higher case load during residency because their attendings weren't in love with themselves, as is sometimes the case with surgical attendings (especially at MGH and the like). Again, like med school, it is about how well you feel you fit in (assuming they agree as well).
 
eli20 said:
Not really the same, but I turned them down for undergrad in exchange for a full-ride to a much less well known small liberal arts school. And I'd do it again easily.

I'm already planning on turning down a top 30 school for a Texas public medical school also.

I think people overestimate how much a brand name will help you and don't think about cost/debt enough. When a lot of my peers will be a minimum of 250k in debt I'll be debt-free straight out of medical school.
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Did you go to Williams or one of those? I thought about Williams or Middlebury... You mentioned turning down a top school for a Texas school, but you do have Baylor and UTSw in your state. Those are great schools as well. I'm from Fl, so unless an OOS private school offers me great financial aid, I'll go to UF/Miami for the tuition. The doc I'm shadowing at Vanderbilt said his best advice was to attend the best in state institution possible. You get a great education at half the price. So, it sounds like you've already got the right idea 🙂.
 
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Vandy Premed said:
Did you go to Williams or one of those? I thought about Williams or Middlebury... You mentioned turning down a top school for a Texas school, but you do have Baylor and UTSw in your state. Those are great schools as well. I'm from Fl, so unless an OOS private school offers me great financial aid, I'll go to UF/Miami for the tuition. The doc I'm shadowing at Vanderbilt said his best advice was to attend the best in state institution possible. You get a great education at half the price. So, it sounds like you've already got the right idea 🙂.
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Some of the top private med schools have excellent financial aid packages, though. I am a 4th year med student at a top ten private med school and I have never paid a dime in tuition due to a continuing grant that has paid my tuition every year. I have taken out loans to pay my living expenses and will graduate with half of the debt I would have incurred had I chosen to attend my state school, which only offered me a package of loans.

It is not accurate to always assume that a well known private school is more expensive than your supposedly cheap state school. You really need to evaluate your financial aid packages.
 
What doors does attending HMS open in comparison to other top tier medical schools? Will it increase your chances of getting a desirable residency position? Will it make it easier to obtain positions in academia? Will its prestige factor be more helpful than harmful after graduation e.g. will it make the colleagues you work with after graduating less willing to cooperate with you? How will the added pressure of being an alumni from Harvard influence you later in your career? These are just some of the questions i think need to be discussed when considering whether to attend HMS vs another top tier medical school.
 
I love how a lot of these people say that they would turn down Harvard when deep down inside its probably what they want the most. Don't hide your inner nerd guys, your on SDN for a reason.

As for me, not that I have the stats to apply to any of these schools, but I love New York City, and I love LA. For me it would be:

1) Columbia
2) NYU/Mount Sinai/Cornell
3) USC/UCLA (If they consider me)
4) Stanford (lol I would apply for fun)
 
searun said:
Some of the top private med schools have excellent financial aid packages, though. I am a 4th year med student at a top ten private med school and I have never paid a dime in tuition due to a continuing grant that has paid my tuition every year. I have taken out loans to pay my living expenses and will graduate with half of the debt I would have incurred had I chosen to attend my state school, which only offered me a package of loans.

It is not accurate to always assume that a well known private school is more expensive than your supposedly cheap state school. You really need to evaluate your financial aid packages.
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Oh no don't assume that I would not consider that. In fact, I attend Vanderbilt at no cost (all need-based aid), while the state school 2 miles from home would be a few thousand a year. This is because I made sure to research financial aid. I am not familiar with how much need based aid I would be eligible for, and I know this depends upon the institution. I get the maximum amount of Pell grant, so I'd hope that I could find a nice school with need-based aid, and obviously I would qualify for more than most students.
 
For those of you who don't believe that N=1: the only consideration is to get into the best medical that you can afford. Dartmouth or Emory, Baylor or New Mexico, Florida or UC Irvine, Harvard or Johns Hopkins? Value comes from how much you learned and experienced versus the cost of attendence.
 
I'd turn down Harvard is some school gave me a 100% tuition scholarship. Hell, I'd turn down Harvard for 50%. 😀 You're a physician in the end.
 
Harvard is probably a great school, and a very productive school, for the amount of research it churns out.

But personally, If I had open admission to any school of my choice, I would not pick Harvard. Harvard students can correct me if my impressions are wrong, but it seems to have an atmosphere stressing individualistic success and competition. It wouldnt work for me, I think I'd fall into clinical depression lol.
 
Harvard didn't allow students to pursue the PhD in my area of interest. Definitely wouldn't want to be somewhere I couldn't do mathematics research...

It is a great school, though. I have a few friends who go there, and it seems like a great place to learn and do service work 🙂
 
How many kids matriculate at Harvard each year? Is every student of Harvard on a fast track to become dean of medicine at a top 20 school? Or how about on track to make 700,000$/year as a plastic surgeon or dermatologist? I'm assuming the answer is no. I'd like to know what going to Harvard over your state school is going to give you? Besides 100k more in debt while handing out the same exact education that's pretty much standardized for every MD school in the country.

EDIT: Every school certainly has its unique features, but the notion that Harvard is going to make you a better/more successful doctor than someone who went somewhere else is absurd. That can only be decided by one thing; your work ethic.
 
Name and prestige are hyped by people that haven't interviewed yet I've found. When you go and interview at some of these places, you realize that while they're no doubt fantastic institutions, they really are just another school. I didn't interview at Harvard, but I did interview at some of its "peer institutions." People that are blinded by prestige and reputation will still continue to think schools like Harvard are the best in the world and the only place to become a good physician. In some regards, those points are true. But it doesn't susprise me at all that people turn down these "top" schools.
 
Diggidy said:
How many kids matriculate at Harvard each year? Is every student of Harvard on a fast track to become dean of medicine at a top 20 school? Or how about on track to make 700,000$/year as a plastic surgeon or dermatologist? I'm assuming the answer is no. I'd like to know what going to Harvard over your state school is going to give you? Besides 100k more in debt while handing out the same exact education that's pretty much standardized for every MD school in the country.

EDIT: Every school certainly has its unique features, but the notion that Harvard is going to make you a better/more successful doctor than someone who went somewhere else is absurd. That can only be decided by one thing; your work ethic.
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meh, let's not get carried away, here. the name will help in some corners of academic medicine, more so than State U of Whatever.
 
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NickNaylor said:
Name and prestige are hyped by people that haven't interviewed yet I've found. When you go and interview at some of these places, you realize that while they're no doubt fantastic institutions, they really are just another school. I didn't interview at Harvard, but I did interview at some of its "peer institutions." People that are blinded by prestige and reputation will still continue to think schools like Harvard are the best in the world and the only place to become a good physician. In some regards, those points are true. But it doesn't susprise me at all that people turn down these "top" schools.
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What do you mean by this?
 
I know a doc who was a Harvard med student, she is the nicest person ever, but talked about the benefits of going to medical school in the southeast or west coast. Not a single bit of Harvard snobbery about her and never talks about where she went to school. She said that while she would never advise someone against going to Harvard, she did feel like there are places where you gain better clinical training, which she always felt was overshadowed by research and networking at Harvard.
 
I don't think I will have a chance at Harvard and I am not going to apply but it would be a toss up for me if it were between Harvard and year round good weather.
 
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