Would anyone turn down Harvard?

[med007]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

I think I'd go to Johns Hopkins over Harvard. I'd have my bag in Baltimore before I'm there

Harvard is so world known and the most "elite" in name as far as schools in anything. Regardless of numbers, just say Harvard and people will prance like a poodle. And with that I don't think I would get a good feeling from it. I know actual perception is different but I don't even think I've even try and apply just for that fact

I've never seen prancing or poodles when the H-bomb is dropped, but I do know that people will either immediately like you, hate you, or want to hire you. It's not all that bad.

 

[154241]

harvard is more than just bragging rights for the grandparents. social medicine/public health out the wazoo, if that's what you're into (and i am). and think of the amazing students you'd be surrounded by (although this is something probably any top 10 or so school can say). heck, paul farmer and jim kim teach a first year class, so i would pretty much give up my firstborn to go there. too bad i panicked during the interview and was completely inarticulate...

 

[Drogba]

harvard is more than just bragging rights for the grandparents. social medicine/public health out the wazoo, if that's what you're into (and i am). and think of the amazing students you'd be surrounded by (although this is something probably any top 10 or so school can say). heck, paul farmer and jim kim teach a first year class, so i would pretty much give up my firstborn to go there. too bad i panicked during the interview and was completely inarticulate...

😍

Also considering how few MD/PhDs in med anthro get accepted a year you'd be working one on one with some amazing faculty (possibly one of those two). Amazing. UCSF has some awesome Med Anthro PhD's but I'm not aware of any of the MD/PhDs there. The ex chief was a PhD, who still did amazing work obviously, but I imagine it would be different having an MD/PhD as your advisor if that was what you were going for in the first place. Harvards social medicine program was also the first in the country I believe. There are still only a handful of schools that offer discrete MD/PhD programs in med anthro, though I know that number is going up by atleast one for next year 🙂.

 

[Kraazy]

Silly reason not to apply...What do you care how ppl react to the name of your school if you love it and find your experience invaluable?
Like I said, Harvard is not the ideal place for everyone. But don't discount it based on myths, misperceptions, haterism...

I think I'd go to Johns Hopkins over Harvard. I'd have my bag in Baltimore before I'm there

Harvard is so world known and the most "elite" in name as far as schools in anything. Regardless of numbers, just say Harvard and people will prance like a poodle. And with that I don't think I would get a good feeling from it. I know actual perception is different but I don't even think I've even try and apply just for that fact

 

[Jolie South]

harvard is more than just bragging rights for the grandparents. social medicine/public health out the wazoo, if that's what you're into (and i am). and think of the amazing students you'd be surrounded by (although this is something probably any top 10 or so school can say). heck, paul farmer and jim kim teach a first year class, so i would pretty much give up my firstborn to go there. too bad i panicked during the interview and was completely inarticulate...

at least you got an interview. . .

i wouldn't worry too much, i got nervous and rambled a bit at baylor. you never know. 🙂

 

[154241]

at least you got an interview. . .

i wouldn't worry too much, i got nervous and rambled a bit at baylor. you never know. 🙂

you're right, i was beyond excited to get an interview. it was snowing and pretty in boston and i got to hang out with my aunt and uncle. trying not to get my hopes up, but thanks! 😀

 

[SonicMD]

I would frame the letter of acceptance, right next to my letter telling them to take their spot and stick it.

Yeah, I'd so do the same thing. I don't really care about that school to be honest but showing off the acceptance letter would be fun. 8D

 

[nevercold]

I would turn down Harvard for the simple fact that it is way too cold up there for me.

 

[stwabewwie]

I would turn down Harvard for the simple fact that it is way too cold up there for me.

Does anyone else see the irony in this ^^? Sorry, I couldn't help myself 😳

 

[166035]

x

 

[Moon1234]

I'd think about turning it down. More than just getting in, it's going to be hard staying in! Intense.

** But I would definetly frame it and most prob. admire it more than my actual degree, ha ha ha

 

[med007]

I would frame the letter of acceptance, right next to my letter telling them to take their spot and stick it.

While some posts on this thread have been very logical in their reasoning for why an individual would turn down an offer to attend HMS, there have been others that seem blatantly antagonistic to the idea of attending and antagonistic to the institution in general.

I'm curious as to why some people would actually go out of their way to express scorn for HMS and Harvard. Most people will have to decline at least one offer of acceptance in the next few months, but I am pretty sure it isn't out of spite most of the time. Why is there anti-Harvard sentiment? And why would it exist among people who've never had any affiliation with the university?

 

[med007]

I'd think about turning it down. More than just getting in, it's going to be hard staying in! Intense.

** But I would definetly frame it and most prob. admire it more than my actual degree, ha ha ha

It is true pass/fail without rankings during the pre-clinical years...so getting in will be the hardest part. There is also no point to weeding people out at HMS since, in academic medicine, it represents a pinnacle of achievement. Of course I'm being somewhat subjective here.

 

[cardboardearrin]

I met a girl who turned down Harvard to go to Cornell. I would, too. Also, for Columbia or Yale.

 

[al112987]

I met a girl who turned down Harvard to go to Cornell. I would, too. Also, for Columbia or Yale.

I love the thought of Yale's curriculum, but I'd fear that I'd end up slacking off and failing my boards.

 

[Drogba]

New Haven? Really? And people are complaining about cambridge (even though HMS is in mission hill).

 

[letitgo]

HMS is in its own little bubble between Brookline (very nice) and Mission Hill (not so nice). It's a very safe and very boring area. It's a couple miles outside of downtown, but easily accessible by train (which runs until 12:30 on weekends - wow, how generous of the MBTA!!!).

Blah. If Harvard accepts me, I'll be turning them down. Why the antagonism toward Harvard? Because of their attitude - it just pervades everything. I had an awful interview day, and I kind of expected it. I've lived in Boston for almost two years since college and can't wait to leave. I can't stand this place. Don't even get me started.

I mean, yes, of course Harvard is a nice place, etc. etc. etc. A friend of mine who is an MS3 says that he can't stand the attitude in the wards, where everyone just kisses everyone else's *** and no one has any idea why they went into medicine in the first place. He says he can't wait to get out.

So, that's it. My anti-Harvard sentiments. If they accept me, it's certainly a fine accomplishment, and I'd be very grateful, but I can't imagine going there.

 

[TheRealMD]

Frame the acceptance letter, barter with other schools for more scholarship money, and turn down the Harvard acceptance regardless.

Why? Because it's Harvard (and will probably cost an ungodly amount of money). Besides, it's not really the institution itself, but the nutcases that usually go there. Same with JHU. One bad egg to ruin them all.

 

[Drogba]

It almost sounds if people are looking for a reason to hate Harvard. I think it makes people happy when they find one. I'm also pretty surprised by the level of antagonism especially since all the posters here (save a few) have little direct knowledge about the school...

 

[hrw212]

It almost sounds if people are looking for a reason to hate Harvard. I think it makes people happy when they find one. I'm also pretty surprised by the level of antagonism especially since all the posters here (save a few) have little direct knowledge about the school...

or have the privilege of turning down Harvard in the first place.....

and as for the cost argument, Harvard is no where near the top in terms of debt.
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/usnews/edu/grad/webextras/brief/sb_med_debt_brief.php

 

[LovelyMD]

It almost sounds if people are looking for a reason to hate Harvard. I think it makes people happy when they find one. I'm also pretty surprised by the level of antagonism especially since all the posters here (save a few) have little direct knowledge about the school...

Yeah, I'm surprised by the level of Harvard hate, especially among the people who have very little to no experience with the place. But I guess that goes to show you the pull of the Harvard name. As someone said earlier in this thread, people will either love you or hate you when they find out you went to Harvard.

Before I interviewed there, I wasn't sure I'd like it that much, but after interviewing there, I really liked it. It's definitely in my top 5... but I don't think my interviews went too well. I guess I'll see what happens in a month or so.

 

[med007]

It almost sounds if people are looking for a reason to hate Harvard. I think it makes people happy when they find one. I'm also pretty surprised by the level of antagonism especially since all the posters here (save a few) have little direct knowledge about the school...

I agree. Some make points about money. Med school is expensive, period. Considering the salaries we'll make when we are done training, the difference between Harvard and other top schools is negligible (not considering merit scholarships). Also, it is not THE most expensive.

Maybe there is a hint of attitude in this place, but I think it's short-sighted to assume that everyone here has it. And if you can learn to ignore the people that raise their noses at you, and establish relationships with likeminded folks, it's no different than any other competitive environment. Harvard University itself is a big as some state schools in terms of numbers, and most people here are down-to-earth. Unfortunately, it takes being here to know it and most people never get that opportunity.

Also, about the wards: no matter where you go, there will be people stepping on each other and sucking up to superiors to get ahead. It's medicine and that's how it works. It's not specific to HMS or Boston hospitals.

If you feel you have a valid reason to despise this place, that's fine. If you have to look for a reason, you should first ask yourself why.

 

[RandomBlackManX]

Frame the acceptance letter, barter with other schools for more scholarship money, and turn down the Harvard acceptance regardless.

Why? Because it's Harvard (and will probably cost an ungodly amount of money). Besides, it's not really the institution itself, but the nutcases that usually go there. Same with JHU. One bad egg to ruin them all.

Stupidest comment in this thread, by far.

Don't get me wrong, I very much enjoyed Baylor, but do you think nutcases don't go there? How are you going to judge schools you've never interviewed at or barely know anything about.

 

[TigerSoup]

I think the thing that troubled me the most about Harvard was the fact that they need to collect everyone's cell phone numbers and frequently changed around interview times/places during the interview day (even though they make them up that morning). I could only imagine it being equally hard to get face to face time with the faculty as a student.

 

[neurofreak]

Stupidest comment in this thread, by far.

Don't get me wrong, I very much enjoyed Baylor, but do you think nutcases don't go there? How are you going to judge schools you've never interviewed at or barely know anything about.

👍

 

[186321]

Absolutely.

Same with Johns Hopkins. Being a resident in MD, people ask me why I never applied to Hopkins. I don't care about their reputation, when I walk onto their campus I just feel freaked out by their student body. They are all deadly committed to out competing each other and being number one. Not to mention some are just socially weird in general. They may be the best in the world, but they are not my kind of people.

 

[DoctorDreamer]

If granted an acceptance to Harvard Med. right now, would anyone honestly choose a different school? Or is everyone's dream Harvard?

I would go to WashU or JHop over Harvard almost definitely, and I would still seriously consider every other school, in spite of the prestige. I'm not big on Harvard, thus the reason for no application. 🙂

This is not based on a reputation, though. It's based largely on their curriculum type and a letter sent to me encouraging me to apply that I thought was ridiculously impersonal and turned me off.

Nothing wrong with others wanting to go there, I just don't think it's for me. I'm sure lots of people would feel that way about my top schools, though.

 

[letitgo]

I eat lunch every single day in the HMS cafeteria/dining hall, know a lot of MD and PhD students, and work among a ton of Harvard alums. So I think I know a bit about the "atmosphere"...and, it's not for me.

On a weird side note, I see my tour guide everywhere around campus and where I live...and sometimes I wish she'd say something instead of looking at me kind of awkwardly. And on another note about the cell phone thing, my cab to MGH NEVER CAME and believe me, I was infuriated. I called the admissions office 8 times asking them what to do, and they told me just to wait. Finally I just hailed my own cab and got there 30 minutes late, which meant my interview was cut significantly short. When I asked the admissions people if I could simply reschedule (since I live 0.5 miles away), they quickly shot me down. I did not feel appreciated or even respected. So that's where my negativity is coming from.

 

[LovelyMD]

It's based largely on their curriculum type and a letter sent to me encouraging me to apply that I thought was ridiculously impersonal and turned me off.

That's probably because it was spam.

 

[DoctorDreamer]

That's probably because it was spam.

It was a form letter they sent from their diversity offices, but it was by far the worst I've gotten from a school, and I just found it to be annoying.

 

[med21]

So a lot of people seem to be judging the school based on the admissions office. I would like to remind you that admissions is totally separate from the actual school and consists of 5 people. If you had a bad interview experience, suck it up, cuz I can tell you that most people didn't have a bad experience.

As for deciding whether you'd want to go to HMS, that's up to you. But if you really hate HMS so much even before you get the letter, you might as well withdraw and let someone who actually wants to go there have a chance...although I would say that since over 80% of HMS acceptees matriculate, the admissions office is doing a great job of choosing people who actually like the school and are not just applying out of spite/denial/personal issues.

And even if you do have friends at HMS who bitch about the wards or some aspect of the school, I can guarantee that you'll hearing bitching from all med students from all schools once in a while. I think med students tend to be whiners in general. That said, since pre-meds don't have too much to base their decisions off of, I can understand why they use inaccurate markers (admissions process, particular people they "know").

 

[med007]

So a lot of people seem to be judging the school based on the admissions office. I would like to remind you that admissions is totally separate from the actual school and consists of 5 people. If you had a bad interview experience, suck it up, cuz I can tell you that most people didn't have a bad experience.

As for deciding whether you'd want to go to HMS, that's up to you. But if you really hate HMS so much even before you get the letter, you might as well withdraw and let someone who actually wants to go there have a chance...although I would say that since over 80% of HMS acceptees matriculate, the admissions office is doing a great job of choosing people who actually like the school and are not just applying out of spite/denial/personal issues.

And even if you do have friends at HMS who bitch about the wards or some aspect of the school, I can guarantee that you'll hearing bitching from all med students from all schools once in a while. I think med students tend to be whiners in general. That said, since pre-meds don't have too much to base their decisions off of, I can understand why they use inaccurate markers (admissions process, particular people they "know").

Thanks for your insight, med21. It's always helpful to hear from someone who's already been through this process and has an inside perspective on a school/program. As with any school, there is always more than meets the eye--especially considering the limited exposure we have to schools, students, and faculty during the interview day.

 

[DoctorDreamer]

So a lot of people seem to be judging the school based on the admissions office. I would like to remind you that admissions is totally separate from the actual school and consists of 5 people. If you had a bad interview experience, suck it up, cuz I can tell you that most people didn't have a bad experience.

As for deciding whether you'd want to go to HMS, that's up to you. But if you really hate HMS so much even before you get the letter, you might as well withdraw and let someone who actually wants to go there have a chance...although I would say that since over 80% of HMS acceptees matriculate, the admissions office is doing a great job of choosing people who actually like the school and are not just applying out of spite/denial/personal issues.

And even if you do have friends at HMS who bitch about the wards or some aspect of the school, I can guarantee that you'll hearing bitching from all med students from all schools once in a while. I think med students tend to be whiners in general. That said, since pre-meds don't have too much to base their decisions off of, I can understand why they use inaccurate markers (admissions process, particular people they "know").

Oh, I agree. I'm sure that HMS is a great school, but the question was whether we would go there, and I personally don't think the school would fit me. Anyhow, I didn't apply there on purpose, so I guess your post doesn't apply to me. I just wanted to say that I'm sure it is a great school, and I in no way mean any disrespect to the current or future students.

 

[Kraazy]

Ummm, the students I've met at HMS and JHU med were actually quite cool and far from being nutcases (although my preconceptions were otherwise). The way I see it actually, the institution's best asset is its people. Also, I'm pretty sure there are several schools out there that have higher tuition than Harvard (BU comes to mind) and fewer funds for financial aid, scholarships, etc...

Frame the acceptance letter, barter with other schools for more scholarship money, and turn down the Harvard acceptance regardless.

Why? Because it's Harvard (and will probably cost an ungodly amount of money). Besides, it's not really the institution itself, but the nutcases that usually go there. Same with JHU. One bad egg to ruin them all.

 

[Kraazy]

Second that...

It almost sounds if people are looking for a reason to hate Harvard. I think it makes people happy when they find one. I'm also pretty surprised by the level of antagonism especially since all the posters here (save a few) have little direct knowledge about the school...

 

[letitgo]

Well, med21, I guess that was directed at me. But my point is that I have far more exposure than just the interview day - I've worked at HMS for 2 years and know it better than any other school I've been to. I applied because I was hoping to see another side of the school than the one I see on a daily basis, but that didn't happen for me.

It's true that every student has gripes about the school they attend. HMS is no different. I just don't know why everyone puts it on this huge pedestal. Harvard is not the be-all end-all of everything. I highly doubt I'll get in, but if I do, I'll go to the revisit weekend and hope for the best. I'm all about giving schools another chance to shine.

 

[med21]

Well, med21, I guess that was directed at me. But my point is that I have far more exposure than just the interview day - I've worked at HMS for 2 years and know it better than any other school I've been to. I applied because I was hoping to see another side of the school than the one I see on a daily basis, but that didn't happen for me.

It's true that every student has gripes about the school they attend. HMS is no different. I just don't know why everyone puts it on this huge pedestal. Harvard is not the be-all end-all of everything. I highly doubt I'll get in, but if I do, I'll go to the revisit weekend and hope for the best. I'm all about giving schools another chance to shine.

Well, good luck. I do hope you get to go to Revisit (although even this is not entirely accurate representation) and see for yourself. Many of my classmates do not put Harvard on a pedestal...that's usually a phenomenon from those outside looking in. Being part of a med school class gives you a very different perspective than being around the med school class...I certainly have non-med school friends who can attest to that...

 

[Kraazy]

Are we talking JHU undergrads or med students? Big difference.
Also, keep in mind, if you're expecting ppl to be *******s, you will notice every single ******* that crosses your path and use that to validate your preconceptions, whether or not they are correct...

Absolutely.

Same with Johns Hopkins. Being a resident in MD, people ask me why I never applied to Hopkins. I don't care about their reputation, when I walk onto their campus I just feel freaked out by their student body. They are all deadly committed to out competing each other and being number one. Not to mention some are just socially weird in general. They may be the best in the world, but they are not my kind of people.

 

[DoctorDreamer]

Are we talking JHU undergrads or med students? Big difference.
Also, keep in mind, if you're expecting ppl to be *******s, you will notice every single ******* that crosses your path and use that to validate your preconceptions, whether or not they are correct...

I agree. All the JHU med students I met were really sweet, fun, and helpful, and not competitive with anyone but themself.

 

[Kraazy]

yeah, the interview process at Harvard is pretty awful, I'll give you that for sure. And I think in some ways it's reflective of the school favoring and fostering independent learners and self-starters, which definitely doesn't work for everyone.

I eat lunch every single day in the HMS cafeteria/dining hall, know a lot of MD and PhD students, and work among a ton of Harvard alums. So I think I know a bit about the "atmosphere"...and, it's not for me.

On a weird side note, I see my tour guide everywhere around campus and where I live...and sometimes I wish she'd say something instead of looking at me kind of awkwardly. And on another note about the cell phone thing, my cab to MGH NEVER CAME and believe me, I was infuriated. I called the admissions office 8 times asking them what to do, and they told me just to wait. Finally I just hailed my own cab and got there 30 minutes late, which meant my interview was cut significantly short. When I asked the admissions people if I could simply reschedule (since I live 0.5 miles away), they quickly shot me down. I did not feel appreciated or even respected. So that's where my negativity is coming from.

 

[Drogba]

Well, med21, I guess that was directed at me. But my point is that I have far more exposure than just the interview day - I've worked at HMS for 2 years and know it better than any other school I've been to. I applied because I was hoping to see another side of the school than the one I see on a daily basis, but that didn't happen for me.

It's true that every student has gripes about the school they attend. HMS is no different. I just don't know why everyone puts it on this huge pedestal. Harvard is not the be-all end-all of everything. I highly doubt I'll get in, but if I do, I'll go to the revisit weekend and hope for the best. I'm all about giving schools another chance to shine.

I don't think many people are "putting it on a pedestal." People generally just recognize Harvard's excellence in many of the fields of the applicants' interest. I'm not sure whats wrong with that. Pretending there aren't characterstics unique to Harvard med is purely delusional. If the fact that Harvard excels in such and such area is insignificant to you, or atleast insignificant relative to other factors, that is a different story. Just like assessing any school you consider whether the schools' priorities complement your own.

 

[letitgo]

med21, you're definitely right about that. I'm sure it's a much different story from the inside - I'm glad you're having a good experience. It's hard to find bad things to say about a place like Harvard, although their admissions office could use some work...

Just because Harvard felt like a bad fit for me doesn't mean it wouldn't be an exceptional fit for someone else. Of course I realize that. It's too bad I didn't have a better experience on my interview day. Oh well.

 

[MossPoh]

If I actually worked hard in the past and stood a chance at harvard, I'm sure my thoughts would be different, but as it is...I am really not that interested in it, or anything in the boston area. There are a ton of other schools I am more interested in than Harvard. I mean, you do get the cool tshirts and what not.

I'd probably take Johns Hopkins, Stanford, UCSF, Duke, and Pritzker over it. Maybe Emory or Baylor or something in a slightly warmer climate. I just don't have a huge love affair with boston. As it is now, I'm not applying to any of those places because I don't stand a shot...lesson to you freshman. Just because you don't know what you want to do, doesn't mean you shouldn't work hard. It is amazing how heavily one gets penalized for taking a little longer to decide and being unprepared out of high school.

 

[TheRealMD]

Stupidest comment in this thread, by far.

Don't get me wrong, I very much enjoyed Baylor, but do you think nutcases don't go there? How are you going to judge schools you've never interviewed at or barely know anything about.

I'll take that back then. Sorry.

 

[154241]

my first interviewer at harvard made every effort to make me feel comfortable. at the morning orientation, listening to other interviewees' conversations, all i heard was ivy league or uc's, and i was developing a huge inferiority complex. but the first thing my interviewer said to me was that i was there for a reason blah blah and basically not to worry that my degree was from a mediocre state school. later he talked about how harvard certainly used to fit its stereotype of upper-class blue-bloods and was really making a conscious effort to get away from that. i believe them, with all the funding they put into public health/social medicine type things. although i wish it could have gone way better, it was one of my most enjoyable and interesting interviews.

all the students i met were nice too. and interesting. i agree with whoever said the strength of harvard is its people. they can pick and choose from the quirkiest applicants.

 

[BlackDr2b]

I would turn down Harvard any day to go to HOWARD!!! Howard is my dream school, I have been praying that I get accepted here for a couple of years now. Lord willing I will get in for the class of 2013! God bless everybody.

 

[wcbcruzer]

If I got into Harvard, I would go and eventually like it. I would also be very happy that I got in. Initially, I wouldn't want to go though. The location is not for me.

 

[Monkey House]

Well medical school is only 4 years and from Harvard I am sure you could open up a lot of doors that will keep you happy for a long long time. Of course you can do superbly at any school (I mean its the same board exam in the end). But unless you have a specific reason for another school then why not Harvard. Basically if you are unsure, its certainly a safe bet, no?

 

[etf]

Well medical school is only 4 years and from Harvard I am sure you could open up a lot of doors that will keep you happy for a long long time. Of course you can do superbly at any school (I mean its the same board exam in the end). But unless you have a specific reason for another school then why not Harvard. Basically if you are unsure, its certainly a safe bet, no?

yeah. upon closer inspection i figure i'd choose harvard over ucsf/stanford because no one makes threads about "would anyone turn down stanford." besides, a lot of the times when people are talking about med schools in the caribbean and stuff, they usually say "it's just 4 years; at the end you'll be a doc and can move anywhere." i figure this same reasoning should probably apply to the big h as well - put in your 4 years, and for the rest of your life (as well as that of your descendants probably) you've got access to a fantastic network.

 

[wammabamma]

Why so much hate on the Harvard interviewing process and Harvard itself? Everyone i met in the office was nice and so were both of my interviewers. in fact, they were some of the 2 kindest and most humble interviewers i had on my entire interview trail.

I had dinner the night before my interview with about 15 Harvard MS1s. They were all really down to earth and genuine people. If you've had direct experience with HMS people, then fine speak your mind. For the rest of you, please dont spread stupid and negative rumors you hear about HMS on these forums or elsewhere.