Would you pick a specialty based on family life?

[mrwesticles]

The people saying that they refuse to alter their life around a significant other are disregarding the potential want or need for such a thing.

If you say "I don't have a significant other, therefore I won't plan or anticipate that" you are basically saying "I'm setting myself to never have that."

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[DrCoffeeBean]

If you say "I don't have a significant other, therefore I won't plan or anticipate that" you are basically saying "I'm setting myself to never have that."

And with all honesty, I will be ok with that. If SO comes along - wonderful, if not - I will be equally happy.

 

[Wordead]

I think the lifestyle kids are disgusting. Did you not hear about the long workweeks and the sacrifices in your personal life you'd have to make when you first applied to medical school?

This "different strokes for different folks" garbage needs to die. Your actions and lifestyle do not exist in a vacuum. The medical system puts a lot of resources into training each physician, anticipating that they will be able to care for the population in the future. There are already not enough doctors to see patients, and you think it's totally cool to weigh down the system so you can make easy money and work part-time? What a pathetic self of self-entitlement.

If you don't have a minimum level of dedication to your patients (and yes, that means more than ****ing 40 hours a week), you shouldn't have applied in the first place.

 

[Sheldor]

I think the lifestyle kids are disgusting. Did you not hear about the long workweeks and the sacrifices in your personal life you'd have to make when you first applied to medical school?

This "different strokes for different folks" garbage needs to die. Your actions and lifestyle do not exist in a vacuum. The medical system puts a lot of resources into training each physician, anticipating that they will be able to care for the population in the future. There are already not enough doctors to see patients, and you think it's totally cool to weigh down the system so you can make easy money and work part-time? What a pathetic self of self-entitlement.

If you don't have a minimum level of dedication to your patients (and yes, that means more than ****ing 40 hours a week), you shouldn't have applied in the first place.

Glad I won't practice with you some day

 

[DrCoffeeBean]

I think the lifestyle kids are disgusting. Did you not hear about the long workweeks and the sacrifices in your personal life you'd have to make when you first applied to medical school?

This "different strokes for different folks" garbage needs to die. Your actions and lifestyle do not exist in a vacuum. The medical system puts a lot of resources into training each physician, anticipating that they will be able to care for the population in the future. There are already not enough doctors to see patients, and you think it's totally cool to weigh down the system so you can make easy money and work part-time? What a pathetic self of self-entitlement.

If you don't have a minimum level of dedication to your patients (and yes, that means more than ****ing 40 hours a week), you shouldn't have applied in the first place.

That's a little harsh.
Doctors are people too, and a doc with a burn out can't help a patient. Just because medicine is one's calling (or whatever one may call it) doesn't mean that other aspects of one's life should wither away and die.

If one likes a 'eat-all-your-time' specialty and one is happy dedicating all the time to it, then thats the person's choice, and by no means an obligation just because they went to med school.

 

[Wordead]

That's a little harsh.
Doctors are people too, and a doc with a burn out can't help a patient. Just because medicine is one's calling (or whatever one may call it) doesn't mean that other aspects of one's life should wither away and die.

If one likes a 'eat-all-your-time' specialty and one is happy dedicating all the time to it, then thats the person's choice, and by no means an obligation just because they went to med school.

I am by no means saying let medicine be your end all be all - everyone needs balance in their life and a life outside the clinic. But let's be real, that's not even close to what half these lifestyle people are saying. They're talking about working part-time, finding specialties where they don't have to be on call or working odd hours. In my opinion, these are people that had no business going to medical school - they're lazy and simply wanted status and a cushy lifestyle.

 

[2012mdc]

I think the lifestyle kids are disgusting. Did you not hear about the long workweeks and the sacrifices in your personal life you'd have to make when you first applied to medical school?

This "different strokes for different folks" garbage needs to die. Your actions and lifestyle do not exist in a vacuum. The medical system puts a lot of resources into training each physician, anticipating that they will be able to care for the population in the future. There are already not enough doctors to see patients, and you think it's totally cool to weigh down the system so you can make easy money and work part-time? What a pathetic self of self-entitlement.

If you don't have a minimum level of dedication to your patients (and yes, that means more than ****ing 40 hours a week), you shouldn't have applied in the first place.

Who decides how many hours per week is enough?

You can work less hours and be as dedicated as to your patients, just have less patients.

 

[Wordead]

Who decides how many hours per week is enough?

You can work less hours and be as dedicated as to your patients, just have less patients.

It's not something that needs to be quantified - it's the attitude some people in this thread have. Where medicine is a means to an end, not the end.

Sure, just take on less patients. That makes sense. No need to give 3 shakes about the under-served. What a myopic worldview.

 

[miui]

The rightfully chosen specialty can last longer than most relationships. Boyfriends and girlfriends can come and go, but your job will always be there, especially if it's in medicine which tends to be more secure, at least compared to other professions. You can work your kids in around your schedule as many other professions do.

With wives and husbands it's a bit more complicated, since all those long hours and stressful work can probably kill some "moods", but there are probably enough of other professions that deal with the same issues.

I might give it some consideration if the specialty involves moving to a new location or something, but other than that I think it is doable to pick the specialty you really want and just adjust your family life around it.

 

[2012mdc]

It's not something that needs to be quantified - it's the attitude some people in this thread have. Where medicine is a means to an end, not the end.

Sure, just take on less patients. That makes sense. No need to give 3 shakes about the under-served. What a myopic worldview.

Where do you draw the limit? Why not work 120 hours a week?

Some people like to work less hours and will not be happy or effective if they work more than they want.

I don't apologize for not having a "save the world" mentality. I'm not doing primary care even though there's a shortage because I wouldn't be happy doing it and I know I would burn out. If that makes me a lesser person in your eyes I could care less. I'm not the one getting worked up over other's life choices. Not everyone goes into medicine for the same exact reasons

 

[Concubine]

I think the lifestyle kids are disgusting. Did you not hear about the long workweeks and the sacrifices in your personal life you'd have to make when you first applied to medical school?

This "different strokes for different folks" garbage needs to die. Your actions and lifestyle do not exist in a vacuum. The medical system puts a lot of resources into training each physician, anticipating that they will be able to care for the population in the future. There are already not enough doctors to see patients, and you think it's totally cool to weigh down the system so you can make easy money and work part-time? What a pathetic self of self-entitlement.

If you don't have a minimum level of dedication to your patients (and yes, that means more than ****ing 40 hours a week), you shouldn't have applied in the first place.

Who the hell are you to decide what someone should or shouldn't do when they get through the crap-shoot of medical school and residency? Yes there is life outside work, and if someone goes into medicine to have a good lifestyle and is somehow at all the end of this able to achieve it, then I say good for them.

 

[Wordead]

Where do you draw the limit? Why not work 120 hours a week?

Some people like to work less hours and will not be happy or effective if they work more than they want.

I don't apologize for not having a "save the world" mentality. I'm not doing primary care even though there's a shortage because I wouldn't be happy doing it and I know I would burn out. If that makes me a lesser person in your eyes I could care less. I'm not the one getting worked up over other's life choices. Not everyone goes into medicine for the same exact reasons

If you want to draw conclusions out to ridiculous lengths, fine. What if the most effective and happy a physician will be is if he or she sees 2 patients a month? Is it still totally cool and awesome that they're happy and they put maximum effort into those 2 patients?

Like it or not, physicians have responsibilities outside of the clinic. That is why your personal life can affect your license and why you are held to a higher standard than most other professions.

As for people not going into medicine for the exact same reasons - sure. Clearly, many people on this message board entered medicine for a cushy life. If you're cool with that, hey, what can I say. I think it's disgusting, but bully for the rest of you. I hope they're the ones that take care of your loved ones when they're sick.

 

[Wordead]

Who the hell are you to decide what someone should or shouldn't do when they get through the crap-shoot of medical school and residency? Yes there is life outside work, and if someone goes into medicine to have a good lifestyle and is somehow at all the end of this able to achieve it, then I say good for them.

Even if people's health is adversely affected because they don't really give a crap beyond the job?

 

[2012mdc]

If you want to draw conclusions out to ridiculous lengths, fine. What if the most effective and happy a physician will be is if he or she sees 2 patients a month? Is it still totally cool and awesome that they're happy and they put maximum effort into those 2 patients?

Like it or not, physicians have responsibilities outside of the clinic. That is why your personal life can affect your license and why you are held to a higher standard than most other professions.

As for people not going into medicine for the exact same reasons - sure. Clearly, many people on this message board entered medicine for a cushy life. If you're cool with that, hey, what can I say. I think it's disgusting, but bully for the rest of you. I hope they're the ones that take care of your loved ones when they're sick.

I'm cool with it as long as they work hard during their hours and are competent.

Of course doctors are held to higher standards but that doesn't mean that a doctor who wants to work 45 hours instead of 65 is somehow evil or lesser.

 

[Wordead]

I'm cool with it as long as they work hard during their hours and are competent.

Of course doctors are held to higher standards but that doesn't mean that a doctor who wants to work 45 hours instead of 65 is somehow evil or lesser.

Will you be singing the same tune when they hand your mother off to the next guy in the critical stages of treatment and peace out, I wonder.

 

[2012mdc]

Will you be singing the same tune when they hand your mother off to the next guy in the critical stages of treatment and peace out, I wonder.

Those who want a cushy lifestyle won't be going into a specialty that has that responsibility.

There are places for all personality types in medicine. Not everyone has your mentality and not everybody needs to. You act like a dermatologist and a critical care doc need to have the same mentality.

 

[jdh71]

Would I be wrong in assuming almost every student in here almost to a man who is making the most noise about defending "lifestyle" choice is interested in radiology?

 

[Ortho Guy]

Will you be singing the same tune when they hand your mother off to the next guy in the critical stages of treatment and peace out, I wonder.

Settle down there, champ.

 

[Wordead]

Settle down there, champ.

 

[Wordead]

Those who want a cushy lifestyle won't be going into a specialty that has that responsibility.

There are places for all personality types in medicine. Not everyone has your mentality and not everybody needs to. You act like a dermatologist and a critical care doc need to have the same mentality.

Have you not been reading this thread? The "I will match into x surgery and work part time"? ROADs isn't the only way to get a cushy lifestyle.

 

[smq123]

Sure, just take on less patients. That makes sense. No need to give 3 shakes about the under-served. What a myopic worldview.

I'm a family medicine resident. When I'm done, I plan on working in a community health center. It is pretty much a guarantee that I'll be working with the underserved in some capacity for the next few years, and, hopefully, for the rest of my career.

I don't know if I could work in an outpatient clinic if it meant seeing patients for 65 hours a week, to be honest. 65 hours a week is 5 days a week, 13 hours a day. I guess I could do it if I had a PA to see all non-urgent sick visits (colds, splinters, coughs, etc.), as well as to do paperwork (physical exam forms, drivers license physicals, FMLA forms, prior authorizations). Also, if I were in a clinic where I were allowed to refuse to see any drug seekers that argued, threatened, or became violent, as well as any patient who pulled out the "lawsuit" word as a threat. And, also, if charting were kept to a minimum. Then, in that case, maybe.

Otherwise, 65 hours a week of seeing patients, one every 15 minutes - all the arguing, paperwork, red tape, headaches....I think I'd burn out after 5 years or so. I mean, don't get me wrong, I actually like clinic and primary care....but not enough to do it all the time.

So I can't really blame people who want to work less or go part time. I figure that they have their reasons, and who am I to say if they're good reasons or not?

 

[45408]

One day you're going to realize that most of your patients are just regular "lazy" folk who generally enjoy life when they're not in the ICU.

That's really not the topic at hand. We're talking about our peers, not our patients.

 

[45408]

It's not something that needs to be quantified - it's the attitude some people in this thread have. Where medicine is a means to an end, not the end.

Sure, just take on less patients. That makes sense. No need to give 3 shakes about the under-served. What a myopic worldview.

Maybe they just give one shake about the underserved, and the other two shakes are what they give to their family/hobbies/selves. You only live life once. Do what you want with it.

 

[Wordead]

Maybe they just give one shake about the underserved, and the other two shakes are what they give to their family/hobbies/selves. You only live life once. Do what you want with it.

Hey, you and the guy above are residents, I'm sure you have a better idea of medicine than I do. But in my opinion, this sort of attitude is everything that is wrong with medicine - everybody worry about themselves, who cares what the other members of your profession do.

Should I care about policy? Nope, not until they start cutting my pay. Can someone do something about it? Nope, nope my problem. I have too much on my plate as it is. Why doesn't the AMA do something about it? Oh, well, did you join the AMA and do anything? No? Oh. Okay. Everyone back to their corners while our profession gets chipped away at, but nonetheless complain on SDN.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

I can def see where you're coming from, especially when I see undergrads wanting to do a specialty based on a perceived lifestyle or salary with no medical experience... however,

I think it's fine to have an idea of what kind of lifestyle you want to live and match it to a field that you're interested in doing. If you can match a balance life with the career of your dreams, great things can happen for you, your family and your patients.

All you can do is do what's best for you, work hard and live life to the fullest.

Just my $0.02

-R

 

[DrCoffeeBean]

Hey, you and the guy above are residents, I'm sure you have a better idea of medicine than I do. But in my opinion, this sort of attitude is everything that is wrong with medicine - everybody worry about themselves, who cares what the other members of your profession do.

Should I care about policy? Nope, not until they start cutting my pay. Can someone do something about it? Nope, nope my problem. I have too much on my plate as it is. Why doesn't the AMA do something about it? Oh, well, did you join the AMA and do anything? No? Oh. Okay. Everyone back to their corners while our profession gets chipped away at, but nonetheless complain on SDN.

In the ideal world everybody is fully altruistic putting the needs of others above their own. But that's in the ideal world. In the real one, on the other hand, people will always be pursuing their interests to some degree, it's normal and natural!
It's the same story as socialism - great in theory, doesn't work in practise, and this is because a person will always look after themselves first. There are ways of using such fact to achieve more active participation in policy, but this is not the topic of this thread.

 

[Staradmiral]

I think the lifestyle kids are disgusting. Did you not hear about the long workweeks and the sacrifices in your personal life you'd have to make when you first applied to medical school?

This "different strokes for different folks" garbage needs to die. Your actions and lifestyle do not exist in a vacuum. The medical system puts a lot of resources into training each physician, anticipating that they will be able to care for the population in the future. There are already not enough doctors to see patients, and you think it's totally cool to weigh down the system so you can make easy money and work part-time? What a pathetic self of self-entitlement.

If you don't have a minimum level of dedication to your patients (and yes, that means more than ****ing 40 hours a week), you shouldn't have applied in the first place.

I hope I never work with you. Who the hell said I have to work more than 40 hours a week if I want to be a doctor? did you write that rule? It does not matter that doctors save lives, they are not society's slaves. If after medical school and residency, I feel like being a 35h/week doctor then that is my choice! and every doctor has that choice. I worked hard, studied hard, paid for med school (yes i know it's greatly subsidized by taxes), it's going to be my license and i'll use it as much or as little as I want.

If the doctor that is treating my mother, tomorrow decides that he is going to retire then tough luck, see another doctor. I cannot go enslaving people because my mother's health is in jeopardy.

I agree that there are not enough doctors. Society should get more medical schools, more residency programs, and the money to pay more doctors, and increase taxes in order to pay for it. If people do not want to increase taxes then 'there you go', you get what you pay for. If you want better heathcare then the american people should pay for it.

 

[DrCoffeeBean]

I agree that there are not enough doctors. Society should get more medical schools, more residency programs, and the money to pay more doctors, and increase taxes in order to pay for it. If people do not want to increase taxes then 'there you go', you get what you pay for. If you want better heathcare then the american people should pay for it.

And things are getting political...

 

[smq123]

Hey, you and the guy above are residents, I'm sure you have a better idea of medicine than I do. But in my opinion, this sort of attitude is everything that is wrong with medicine - everybody worry about themselves, who cares what the other members of your profession do.

What does this have to do with anything?

The people who let things get like this, the last 2 generations of doctors? DID frequently work 100 hour weeks in residency. It's not like their willingness to work hard for their patients made them any better at advocating for the profession. You can be a complete workaholic, but if you have no interest in politics, you're not going to advocate for things. They're not interrelated, nor is it a problem of "everyone being out for themselves."

 

[Asp]

Wordead is simply reiterating what we all said in our essays and interviews to get into medical school. He just so happens to also believe it.

 

[Wordead]

What does this have to do with anything?

The people who let things get like this, the last 2 generations of doctors? DID frequently work 100 hour weeks in residency. It's not like their willingness to work hard for their patients made them any better at advocating for the profession. You can be a complete workaholic, but if you have no interest in politics, you're not going to advocate for things. They're not interrelated, nor is it a problem of "everyone being out for themselves."

No, but doctors that care about the profession as a whole would.

Again, if you read what I said above, I'm not drawing a more hours = better equivalency. I'm not saying doctors should be pushing themselves until they're coming apart at the seams. I'm saying they have a responsibility to do what they can within their power for their patients and for society in general. Not "Put in my 40 hours, collect my paycheck, cya guys". I think it's a ****ing shame that apparently the vast majority of my future colleagues couldn't care less. And that I'm the odd man out for thinking physicians have a societal responsibility.

 

[Ortho Guy]

To each his own.

 

[2012mdc]

To each his own.

But your own isn't good enough for him. Why can't you understand that?!! You must have the approval of some random SDN'er!

 

[ArcGurren]

Would I be wrong in assuming almost every student in here almost to a man who is making the most noise about defending "lifestyle" choice is interested in radiology?

Uh, no. I'm actually interested in a couple of surgical subspecialties and medicine specialties. I just don't like primary care because most of the day-to-day stuff is boring/not interesting to me (yay, another CHF exacerbation. yay, another HTN. yay another DM. blah.). Most of those involve a decently long day.

Either way why does it matter whether people want to go into something for lifestyle? Hell, I can guarantee that the people who are going into radiology and not into primary care probably shouldn't be in primary care in the first place because they'd be horrible at it. Better that their talents go to something else.

 

[ArcGurren]

No, but doctors that care about the profession as a whole would.

Again, if you read what I said above, I'm not drawing a more hours = better equivalency. I'm not saying doctors should be pushing themselves until they're coming apart at the seams. I'm saying they have a responsibility to do what they can within their power for their patients and for society in general. Not "Put in my 40 hours, collect my paycheck, cya guys". I think it's a ****ing shame that apparently the vast majority of my future colleagues couldn't care less. And that I'm the odd man out for thinking physicians have a societal responsibility.

Chill the **** out buddy.

Believe it or not, as a doctor, no matter what specialty you are in, you are still fulfilling some sort of essential function in patient care, whether you work 40 hours a week or 90 hours a week. Most people like the dermatologist who got rid of their skin cancer or severe cystic acne, whether or not he is working 40 hours a week. Most people also like the neurosurgeon who took out their pilocytic astrocytoma as a young'un because it saved their lives, and he works 100 hours a week. Either way, neither is doing something that isn't necessary for patient care.

As for peoples' attitudes... well, as much as I agree that some people are not cut out to be doctors because of their sociopathy or their general inability to relate to other people on a human level, it is not my problem what the attitude of most normal people is towards their career as a physician.

 

[jdh71]

Uh, no. I'm actually interested in a couple of surgical subspecialties and medicine specialties. I just don't like primary care because most of the day-to-day stuff is boring/not interesting to me (yay, another CHF exacerbation. yay, another HTN. yay another DM. blah.). Most of those involve a decently long day.

Either way why does it matter whether people want to go into something for lifestyle? Hell, I can guarantee that the people who are going into radiology and not into primary care probably shouldn't be in primary care in the first place because they'd be horrible at it. Better that their talents go to something else.

It doesn't really "matter" to me. I have nothing but contempt for what I think is the fundamental underlying attitude, but I don't give a **** what you or anyone else wants to ultimately do. Why would I? Though I do think I'd have more than a little schadenfreude if the specialty a lot of these people pick because it has no few hours and/or great pay, get saturated or get reimbursements cut. At the end of the day, as long as you see my patients in a timely fashion and give excellent consults, go work 20 hours a week, for a million bucks a year.

As for the rest of your post:

 

[MedicalStudent9]

I think specialty choice is all about finding balance. As my advisor put it, "it is not a gut feeling, it is practical choice made by weighing a lot of different variables." You need to look practically at what you want out of life (i.e. both in and outside your career). I made a list with him about important priorities and things I wanted to accomplish with my career and with my social life. As a surgeon, he immediately told me to probably not consider surgical specialties even if I found them interesting. I wouldn't be able to handle the hours and commitment and I might be happier doing something that provided more free time and flexibility. Happy doctors are good doctors as you can serve yourself and your patients better if you find the specialty that fulfills both your intellectual side as well as serving the life you want outside of medicine.

Though one can argue medicine is much different than other careers (and it is), I view a career as something that supports my life outside of it. It's meant to keep me busy, productive, contributing to society, engaged, but ultimately friends, relationships, and loved ones are the things that ultimately matter. Start thinking about this now (and not later). I think the biggest problem is in medicine is this mentality of "my life sucks now, but it will get better." Always make sure you're as happy as you can be in the now. Seeking the balance from the get-go will keep you sane and help avoid burn out down the road. It's never too early to start.

Good point, bro'dillo.

 

[notbobtrustme]

I think the lifestyle kids are disgusting. Did you not hear about the long workweeks and the sacrifices in your personal life you'd have to make when you first applied to medical school?

This "different strokes for different folks" garbage needs to die. Your actions and lifestyle do not exist in a vacuum. The medical system puts a lot of resources into training each physician, anticipating that they will be able to care for the population in the future. There are already not enough doctors to see patients, and you think it's totally cool to weigh down the system so you can make easy money and work part-time? What a pathetic self of self-entitlement.

If you don't have a minimum level of dedication to your patients (and yes, that means more than ****ing 40 hours a week), you shouldn't have applied in the first place.

What about women? Should we not train women doctors because it is fact that they work less hours for less years with far more baggage than men do (aka kid's sick, can't cover call this weekend).

 

[CassieBagley]

nothing

 

[MedicalStudent9]

24 hours a day = ~800,000 in a 90-year lifespan. I say spend your hours however you'd like to spend them, whether it's taking care of a patient on call or eating lunch with your loved one. There is no laziness in someone seeking a lifestyle specialty simply because it's less hours of work per week- rather, it's a matter of calculated priorities. Some people chose to spend more of their given hours in life doing things that bring them equal if not more pleasure than medicine- such as friendships, loved ones, hobbies, entertainment, sports, etc. When you're on your deathbed, you'll be happy you spent at least some of your time in life helping, supporting, bettering and sharing moments with people around you outside of your professional capacity as a physician. The difference between 100 hours per week and 40 hours per week as working physicians is mainly a difference in # of patients seen each week- but don't forget that your patients aren't the only people in your life that matter

Especially if you're with a beautiful woman, Brosideon.

 

[HughMyron]

I don't see why not. You already spend more than half your waking hours at your job. I'd rather not have to deal with a specialty that made me spend all of them.

I think the lifestyle kids are disgusting. Did you not hear about the long workweeks and the sacrifices in your personal life you'd have to make when you first applied to medical school?

This "different strokes for different folks" garbage needs to die. Your actions and lifestyle do not exist in a vacuum. The medical system puts a lot of resources into training each physician, anticipating that they will be able to care for the population in the future. There are already not enough doctors to see patients, and you think it's totally cool to weigh down the system so you can make easy money and work part-time? What a pathetic self of self-entitlement.

If you don't have a minimum level of dedication to your patients (and yes, that means more than ****ing 40 hours a week), you shouldn't have applied in the first place.

I sincerely hope I'll never have to work with someone like you.

 

[MedicalStudent9]

http://www.askmen.com/entertainment/austin/great-male-survey-gender-and-success.html

For 57% of men, “being a great father and husband who looks after his family” tops the list of accomplishments that defines them as a “real man.”"

 

[greg1184]

Uh, no. I'm actually interested in a couple of surgical subspecialties and medicine specialties. I just don't like primary care because most of the day-to-day stuff is boring/not interesting to me (yay, another CHF exacerbation. yay, another HTN. yay another DM. blah.). Most of those involve a decently long day.

Either way why does it matter whether people want to go into something for lifestyle? Hell, I can guarantee that the people who are going into radiology and not into primary care probably shouldn't be in primary care in the first place because they'd be horrible at it. Better that their talents go to something else.

That is quite a bold assumption you put there.

 

[HalladayWeekend]

I hate the argument about notoriously demanding residencies (i.e. surgery) that "it's only 4-6 years- you have the rest of your life as an attending."

It is 4-6 years in the prime of your life, and as the tragedy in Colorado reminded everyone of last week, you just don't know what tomorrow will bring. If you love the field and you can't see yourself doing anything else, than great. If you're doing it to just get through, I think it is a huge mistake. If you are doing another field that is less demanding and are just doing it to get through, at least you can have somewhat of a life at the same time. I enjoyed my surgery/ Ob-Gyn rotation because there was a definitive end. I can't imagine putting in those hours with no end in sight.

 

[ahha3289]

.

 

[greg1184]

They should convert medical education institutions to monasteries.

 

[MedicalStudent9]

They should convert medical education institutions to monasteries.

It's medical school socialization. They want you to believe that patient results is the most important thing in the world. It's laughable.

To be a doctor means you should put patient outcomes above family, health, sleeping etc. WHY? Because that's the altruistic and honorable doctor thing to do. It's laughable.

No one believes that crap when you're born... you're socialized to believe that. I think you can be of service to people and help out, whatever, but these people are drinking the kool-aid to get some special feeling or significance or whatever. It's a joke. When they talk about scaling back resident work hours back from 100 hrs a week or whatever (down to 80), everyone is like "OH, patient outcomes didn't change, blah blah blah." Lol. Like patient outcomes are all we care about.

Here's a list of things I care much more about than patient outcomes:

- females
- family
- friends
- exercise
- sports/hobbies
- adequate sleep/health

Does that mean I can't work 50-60 or so hours a week and be altruistic in that time, sure I can. But you guys who sacrifice all this stuff just to get better patient outcomes, you all will be very very jaded/unsatisfied with your career, wishing you didn't chose medicine in 20 years... like half of the medical field. WHY? Because medicine is imperfect. Sometimes your patients will hate you, the government will screw up your ability to deliver patient outcomes, you'll be underappreciated, etc. So sacrifice all that and don't even really make a difference. Here's the reality, you don't need to look at all that and say "woe is me", instead you work your ass off an appropriate # of hours that you decide upon, you serve your patient during that time and then you do all the things that makes being human great, which I listed above (and everyone has there own list! but patient outcomes IS NOT what makes being human great).

Don't drink the Kool-aid!

 

[Wordead]

Groan. This is from a year ago, I have no desire to respond to pre-meds with ****ty reading comprehension on this old topic. Do whatever you like kids, have fun.

 

[MedicalStudent9]

Groan. This is from a year ago, I have no desire to respond to pre-meds with ****ty reading comprehension on this old topic. Do whatever you like kids, have fun.

[YOUTUBE]2iE4uEsaBF0[/YOUTUBE]

 

[HughMyron]

I hate the argument about notoriously demanding residencies (i.e. surgery) that "it's only 4-6 years- you have the rest of your life as an attending."

It is 4-6 years in the prime of your life, and as the tragedy in Colorado reminded everyone of last week, you just don't know what tomorrow will bring. If you love the field and you can't see yourself doing anything else, than great. If you're doing it to just get through, I think it is a huge mistake. If you are doing another field that is less demanding and are just doing it to get through, at least you can have somewhat of a life at the same time. I enjoyed my surgery/ Ob-Gyn rotation because there was a definitive end. I can't imagine putting in those hours with no end in sight.

I'm worried about surgery residencies in the future. It seems like some of the programs are using the 80 hr limit as an excuse to increase their length, or force people into fellowships afterwards. Also this may be hearsay, but I've heard that surgery residencies have a higher malignancy rate.

I don't think I'll be getting into Rads or Derm in this lifetime, so I'm hoping for EM or Psych. Interesting and novel experiences, and hours aren't terrible.