Would you still go into medicine if doctors made $75,000/yr?

[synapse lapse]

Because the only reason to work hard is to attain a certain 'class status'

Yes, that's the point of capitalism, it's called "social mobility", or the american dream by some, and it is the essence for why this economic system is so great. Beside that point, you are an idiot to think that house mortgage can be as low as $250 a month, and a car at $200 month, etc. Your entire cost structure was wrong. Tally up the costs of buying a modest $150k house (about $1300 month, and yes this is a modest house in most areas of the country). Now add in just one new car payment, lets say a honda civic at $250 month, insurance on that single car at $100 month. Now let's expand this model to include a family, hmm well we need more than one car, but lets just assume we buy some crappy used car for $1000 and have a new car (the civic) for reliable transport. Now let's talk adding health insurance for a family with 2 kids, well that can be anywhere from $300 - $1000 month depending on if your employer covers any of the cost. Let's also add in disability insurance to cover your salary, and life insurance for covering 2 years of income, those can add a non-nominal sum to the calculation depending on how much you make. Now lets add in school costs, perhaps you want to send your kids to private school, or they are in college. You have 2 kids, you pay full cost, that can add $40k a year even at state school with modest living. Add in groceries and utilities, phone, interent, computer, and an emergency budget to fix what needs to be fixed/buy new things to replace old ones, oh and add in budget for just buying things like furniture and what not. We haven't even gotten to saving for retirement yet, and unless you want to work your entire life and then rely off social welfare programs, you will want to put some away. Now how much money do you have left over after all of this on 75k a year pre-tax? Not very much. Asa matter of fact, you willprobably be in a massive cycle of debt constantly trying to rob from peter to pay paul. Sure, many families live on the avg income of $42k a year, but these families don't have enough retirement savings, don't have the option of where to live, or taking enough vacations, or purchasing new cars, or having nice things, or numerous other things some of which are luxuries and some arent. My model included a very modest lifestyle where the primary goals were to provide for a family and save for retirement, not even live lavishly, and it was evident thaty 75k a year isn't much. Why should anyone put in sop much time/effort/money to be a doc sacrificing for no rewqard? It is entirely against the concept of social mobility, and only irrational or unrealistic people would say yes, or people that already are independantly wealthy. (or people that don't see it as their obligation to their family, esp children, to not force them to live the crappy lifestyle they chose to live). And yes, my parents made between $30 - $50 k pretax my entire life, and I also worked in the "real world" since I was 17 supporting myself entirely, so don't tell me I don't know anyhting. Yeah, sure, a single person making even 30k a year can have a great life, save for retirement, and everything, but we aren't talking about a single person, when discussing a family, and assuming thaty we have an obligation to our children, its nopt enough to warrant the sacrifice put in.

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[docbill]

I would.

Some people don't realize that going into Medicine. MD or DO. You will not see anything above or close to 75k for 8 years or so. If you are doing a specialty 10-12 years. PGY7 or 8 you start hiting 70k. hehehehe

 

[CTSballer11]

I would.

Some people don't realize that going into Medicine. MD or DO. You will not see anything above or close to 75k for 8 years or so. If you are doing a specialty 10-12 years. PGY7 or 8 you start hiting 70k. hehehehe

Yea well I definately realize it. My uncle is a Cardiothoracic surgeon. 16 years of training ( 4 yrs undergrad, 4 years medical school, 5 years general surgery, 3 years CT fellowship) and he got out of his training when he was 35, and he has been making a ton of money since then. I can only speak from what my uncle has told me but after medical school and the hell that is a surgical residency, no one in their right mind would ever do that stuff for 75K. It is not all about the money, but there is no way someone can invest that much time and energy not to mention the long irregular hours for 75K. Maybe you would, but I sure as hell would not.

 

[Anastasis]

If somehow I had no debt from med school I would do it. But then again I want to do Family Practice so I'm not looking at as many years of hell. And in the end my salary won't be much higher than that anyway.

 

[gujuDoc]

Yea well I definately realize it. My uncle is a Cardiothoracic surgeon. 16 years of training ( 4 yrs undergrad, 4 years medical school, 5 years general surgery, 3 years CT fellowship) and he got out of his training when he was 35, and he has been making a ton of money since then. I can only speak from what my uncle has told me but after medical school and the hell that is a surgical residency, no one in their right mind would ever do that stuff for 75K. It is not all about the money, but there is no way someone can invest that much time and energy not to mention the long irregular hours for 75K. Maybe you would, but I sure as hell would not.

Let me clarify about my position of doing that for 75k. One thing I should mention is that beyond my potential future hubby making money, I have no desire of going into something like surgery that is such hell. My goals are something less competitive then that so for the field that I want to go in, if all other things were paid for it wouldn't make a difference. But since other things aren't paid for I guess it does make a difference.

 

[gujuDoc]

If somehow I had no debt from med school I would do it. But then again I want to do Family Practice so I'm not looking at as many years of hell. And in the end my salary won't be much higher than that anyway.

Wow this is along the lines of what I posted above this post and below the post of yours that I quoted.

 

[drgreeneatutk]

You "yes" voters are serious? Really? Are any of you doctors kids? Have siblings that are docs? Anything that would give you any real idea of what "that much money" is what medicine as a career really entails? I will hapily confess that I'm "just" a pre-med and will start medical school next fall. My dad and grandad are docs and I'm well aquainted with a number of other MD's and I agree with CTSballer that if posed this question most of them would laugh and ask if you were serious. There are a number of excellent reason why most logical intelligent people would NOT do medicine as a career for 75K I know a g-surgeon who takes home 250-300k pre-tax a year and he is looking for a way to get out of medicine b/c he doesn't think it's worth it anymore (and that's just one example out of many I could use). Another thing I don't think many of you realize that besides malpractice insurance there is disability insurance which every doctor that has a brain will get. Right now for a good policy assuming you are in perfect health and have no major liabilty factors you will pay about 16-24K a year just for that. Then there's life insurance. You don't realize that with enlarged income you have enlarged outgo (and I'm not talking about mansions and Beamers). So even if you lived extremely modestly, have medical education costs that mirrored ugrad costs, had liability paid by some thrid party you still would be living pay check to pay check. Of course all of this doesn't factor in the 12+ years you spend achieving a skill and education that will now make you as much as a 4 year nursing degree. You realize that PA's make b/t 80-120K and CRNA/AA's make 100-120K. If doctors salaries ever get to the 75K a year mark for an average we'll really see a short supply of docs unless we see economic deflation along wit that salary decrese(ha ha like that will happen). There are only about a hundred other reasons that could be brought up but I don't have the time. I'd say there might actually be a few people who would actually do it for 75K a year, but I'd guess most of you are lying or (my personal guess) niave. I'd like to retake this poll in 5 years when we've all graduated from med-school and I'd like to see the difference b/t the now and then.

 

[gujuDoc]

You "yes" voters are serious? Really? Are any of you doctors kids? Have siblings that are docs? Anything that would give you any real idea of what "that much money" is what medicine as a career really entails? I will hapily confess that I'm "just" a pre-med and will start medical school next fall. My dad and grandad are docs and I'm well aquainted with a number of other MD's and I agree with CTSballer that if posed this question most of them would laugh and ask if you were serious. There are a number of excellent reason why most logical intelligent people would NOT do medicine as a career for 75K I know a g-surgeon who takes home 250-300k pre-tax a year and he is looking for a way to get out of medicine b/c he doesn't think it's worth it anymore (and that's just one example out of many I could use). Another thing I don't think many of you realize that besides malpractice insurance there is disability insurance which every doctor that has a brain will get. Right now for a good policy assuming you are in perfect health and have no major liabilty factors you will pay about 16-24K a year just for that. Then there's life insurance. You don't realize that with enlarged income you have enlarged outgo (and I'm not talking about mansions and Beamers). So even if you lived extremely modestly, have medical education costs that mirrored ugrad costs, had liability paid by some thrid party you still would be living pay check to pay check. Of course all of this doesn't factor in the 12+ years you spend achieving a skill and education that will now make you as much as a 4 year nursing degree. You realize that PA's make b/t 80-120K and CRNA/AA's make 100-120K. If doctors salaries ever get to the 75K a year mark for an average we'll really see a short supply of docs unless we see economic deflation along wit that salary decrese(ha ha like that will happen). There are only about a hundred other reasons that could be brought up but I don't have the time. I'd say there might actually be a few people who would actually do it for 75K a year, but I'd guess most of you are lying or (my personal guess) niave. I'd like to retake this poll in 5 years when we've all graduated from med-school and I'd like to see the difference b/t the now and then.

My initial vote was no, but my answer would be yes only if all other things were paid for like malpractice, disability, and other insurance payments.

Obviously, however, that will never be the case, so my answer is no.,

 

[Rendar5]

My initial vote was no, but my answer would be yes only if all other things were paid for like malpractice, disability, and other insurance payments.

Obviously, however, that will never be the case, so my answer is no.,

I answered yes, assuming that would be my pay after malpractice insurance. but since i'd be working for a hospital and the hospital is what would be covered,, that's prolly very different from the case presented above.

 

[Uncle_Tbag]

Yeah man, i understand that housing prices are high out there. I'm not doubting it costs a lot. I'm just saying, i think it's stupid that people for some reason think that it's the same everywhere else, and that you somehow can't live a fulfilled life if you're not in a 2,000,000+ person metro area. Life is more than just where you live and being able to go to certain elite venues. It's about starting and raising a family and appreciating what you have. But im sure these things will become unimportant to you, eventually, because you'll be caught up in the rat race and the grueling career race through medicine. Then you'll figure you can make it all right by surrounding yourself with overpriced material things like a house in a "good neighborhood" and a fancy car. Hope this works out for you.

I think you are a little mistaken about how money works in the real world. You live in or have lived in very cheap rural areas which are far from the norm. You think it's common in the US to be able to find an apartment for 200-400/mo, that is just nonsense.

I live in a fairly small town, not a metro area AT ALL, well-under 75k population. It's costing my wife and I 800/mo for a 700 sq foot townhouse-no yard, very little privacy. THe only place I can get an apartment for under 550 is in the state colleges STUDENT HOUSING. You think someone who kills themselves for 12 years to be a physician should live in a tiny shack and drive a used YUGO?

You have some other misconceptions about living expenses:
insurance: what did you say, around 200? 150 will pay our car insurance, another 100 has to go for health ins. We can't afford life or renter's ins. A lot of people have to pay considerably more for health ins.

Utilities are 120 ish, cable another 35(maybe that's too luxurious to expect as a physician lol), phone service 80, 2 car payments 500, 150 on credit cards, 400 to eat very cheaply (forget about eating out much or getting a latte, again I guess that's too great a luxury).

Dont forget to add 125/month in gas for two cars. Plus oil changes, tires, maintenance, registration. Maybe having a car is too much to ask for if you're a Dr, maybe they should ride the bus.

Lets see, what else do we have? You want any entertainment, want to be able to dress un-hobo-like? Put 150 for clothes and entertainment.

You like to play video games or buy the occasional dvd? There goes a chunk of $50 for a game out of your budget.

How about saving for retirement? Putting your kids through college?

I used to think that if I made 40k a year I'd have everything I need and I could live a comfortable life. Wrong.

If you add up everything above, that will take 100% of a 45k income with ZERO left to spare for savings, college tuition for you or your kids, or loan payments. Or anything else you can think of, because this "lavish" salary has already been eaten up by a very modest lifestyle.

This is all without having kids. It's far more complicated than 300 for rent, 200 for car and everyone's happy and living it up.

A piece of advice: money doesn't bring happiness, but poorness can prevent it and make life for you and your loved-ones a lot less pleasant.




"It's a sin to be rich, but it's a low down shame to be poor." -Lightning Hopkins

 

[Hoberto]

I'm sure there have been many great points that have been mentioned on both sides. I know my post will be lost in the crowd. But honestly, I realize alot of premeds on here haven't had work experience in the "real" world, but don't discount all of them. Many people from different socio-economic backgrounds have their own individual motivations. As stated before it all depends on how one person looks at the question being asked and how they interpret it.

This is key. So, a better question might be, "Would you become a dr for $75,000/year take-home pay?"

My answer: yes.

My husband and I live VERY comfortably on his teaching salary. We hope to use my income almost entirely for savings & retirement. We will likely take out no loans or very small loans for my med school education.

We live in a suburb of Cleveland. So, we aren't exactly in a little podunk town in the midwest but we aren't on the coast either where one expects higher costs of living.

 

[Anastasis]

You "yes" voters are serious? Really? Are any of you doctors kids? Have siblings that are docs? Anything that would give you any real idea of what "that much money" is what medicine as a career really entails?

My father is a doctor; yes, I know what I'm getting into. Yes I know what answering yes to the above question means. Like I said, if I magically had no debt from med school, and after expenses (malpractice, billing, etc.) I made 75k, I would still want to practice medicine. Why do you automatically assume that anyone whose opinion differs from yours is uninformed?

 

[daviddamoore]

When I got my first 30k job I felt rich for like 2 months. Then I got this 60k one. I felt rich for about 2 weeks. The more money you have, the faster it goes dammit. Even as well-paid doctors, we aren't going to have as much money as we could want to/have to spend. Basically it comes down to being pissed off in a crap boring job and not having enough money, or doing something you love and not having enough money.

 

[goldfish85]

If somehow I had no debt from med school I would do it. But then again I want to do Family Practice so I'm not looking at as many years of hell. And in the end my salary won't be much higher than that anyway.

Anastasis, i will make an example out of you if you dont mind.

you said:
My father is a doctor; yes, I know what I'm getting into. Yes I know what answering yes to the above question means. Like I said, if I magically had no debt from med school, and after expenses (malpractice, billing, etc.) I made 75k, I would still want to practice medicine. Why do you automatically assume that anyone whose opinion differs from yours is uninformed?

1) just cause your father is a physician does not mean you know medicine in and out yourself. also it does not mean that you know about real world finances.
2) you are clueless because you said that as a fp, your salary wont be much higher than 75k? well if avg. it will be around 150k. thats twice as much! so i dunno why you say it wont be much higher.
3) do you honestly know what you are talking about? i mean do you know what rent cost? a house cost? do you ever want a family or a nice treat for all your work??

honestly, many of these people saying yes i think are either UNSUCCESSFUL with money or really young and naive. I would like to know the ages of the people who said yes in the poll.

BWT, dr geddylee, you made a great point. where is Ross getting these numbers from? i mean seriously. I live in the bay area. In berkeley, my rent for a ****ty STUDIO is 900 a month. (thats 1 room only) now as a physician no way am i living in a studio hahah.

honestly people need to get out their bubbles and face reality cause once your out of school, have a family, work full time, and have all these payments you people who say "yes" are in for a rude awakening.

but i can care less if people want to make less money and work more... i definately wont.

 

[drgreeneatutk]

My father is a doctor; yes, I know what I'm getting into. Yes I know what answering yes to the above question means. Like I said, if I magically had no debt from med school, and after expenses (malpractice, billing, etc.) I made 75k, I would still want to practice medicine. Why do you automatically assume that anyone whose opinion differs from yours is uninformed?

Anastasis,
First off, don't take offense. I did say in my post that I did think there are some out there that would actually do it for 75K. Maybe you are one of those people. However I do (and will continue to) assume that the VAST majority of those 'yes' voters are being niave and will not feel the same way when they finish there medical education (in fact I'd take a gander that they'll change their minds well before they finish school). There is also a difference b/t uniformed and niave, but that's really irrelavent.

 

[Anastasis]

1) just cause your father is a physician does not mean you know medicine in and out yourself. also it does not mean that you know about real world finances.
2) you are clueless because you said that as a fp, your salary wont be much higher than 75k? well if avg. it will be around 150k. thats twice as much! so i dunno why you say it wont be much higher.
3) do you honestly know what you are talking about? i mean do you know what rent cost? a house cost? do you ever want a family or a nice treat for all your work??.

1. No it doesn't mean I know everything. But I'm not clueless either. And I wasn't trying to imply that I know real world finances because my dad is a doctor. How in the world did you think I was trying to imply that? Those things aren't even connected.
2. Well, I should clarify. I want to work as a family practice doctor in an underserved rural setting. So I won't be making 150k a year, which as you said is the average. But I should have specified that in my post. I am aware that MOST fp docs do make more than that, I will not. Plus I will actually be paying back student loans which will eat up a portion of my income. If you remember my earlier post I said that not having loans was a condition of me accepting that salary.
3. Yes, I know what rent costs. I know what houses cost. I know what trying to live on a limited budget means. I'm not 19. Just because you demand a standard of living that cannot be supported by a 75k salary does not mean that everyone does.

I understand that there are alot of people on this msg board that would not practice medicine for 75k. That's fine with me, it's their lives. I understand the argument. The argument doesn't have much appeal to me. I certainly don't look down on them morally or intellectually for their choice, because it's their choice. I would appreciate it if you offer me the same consideration. Just because I do not agree with you does not make me "clueless".

 

[Anastasis]

Anastasis,
First off, don't take offense. I did say in my post that I did think there are some out there that would actually do it for 75K. Maybe you are one of those people. However I do (and will continue to) assume that the VAST majority of those 'yes' voters are being niave and will not feel the same way when they finish there medical education (in fact I'd take a gander that they'll change their minds well before they finish school). There is also a difference b/t uniformed and niave, but that's really irrelavent.

Okay - no offense taken. I agree that there are some of the people who voted yes who are very naive. Just not all of us

 

[Ross434]

Yes, that's the point of capitalism, it's called "social mobility", or the american dream by some, and it is the essence for why this economic system is so great. Beside that point, you are an idiot to think that house mortgage can be as low as $250 a month, and a car at $200 month, etc. Your entire cost structure was wrong. Tally up the costs of buying a modest $150k house (about $1300 month, and yes this is a modest house in most areas of the country). Now add in just one new car payment, lets say a honda civic at $250 month, insurance on that single car at $100 month. Now let's expand this model to include a family, hmm well we need more than one car, but lets just assume we buy some crappy used car for $1000 and have a new car (the civic) for reliable transport. Now let's talk adding health insurance for a family with 2 kids, well that can be anywhere from $300 - $1000 month depending on if your employer covers any of the cost. Let's also add in disability insurance to cover your salary, and life insurance for covering 2 years of income, those can add a non-nominal sum to the calculation depending on how much you make. Now lets add in school costs, perhaps you want to send your kids to private school, or they are in college. You have 2 kids, you pay full cost, that can add $40k a year even at state school with modest living. Add in groceries and utilities, phone, interent, computer, and an emergency budget to fix what needs to be fixed/buy new things to replace old ones, oh and add in budget for just buying things like furniture and what not. We haven't even gotten to saving for retirement yet, and unless you want to work your entire life and then rely off social welfare programs, you will want to put some away. Now how much money do you have left over after all of this on 75k a year pre-tax? Not very much. Asa matter of fact, you willprobably be in a massive cycle of debt constantly trying to rob from peter to pay paul. Sure, many families live on the avg income of $42k a year, but these families don't have enough retirement savings, don't have the option of where to live, or taking enough vacations, or purchasing new cars, or having nice things, or numerous other things some of which are luxuries and some arent. My model included a very modest lifestyle where the primary goals were to provide for a family and save for retirement, not even live lavishly, and it was evident thaty 75k a year isn't much. Why should anyone put in sop much time/effort/money to be a doc sacrificing for no rewqard? It is entirely against the concept of social mobility, and only irrational or unrealistic people would say yes, or people that already are independantly wealthy. (or people that don't see it as their obligation to their family, esp children, to not force them to live the crappy lifestyle they chose to live). And yes, my parents made between $30 - $50 k pretax my entire life, and I also worked in the "real world" since I was 17 supporting myself entirely, so don't tell me I don't know anyhting. Yeah, sure, a single person making even 30k a year can have a great life, save for retirement, and everything, but we aren't talking about a single person, when discussing a family, and assuming thaty we have an obligation to our children, its nopt enough to warrant the sacrifice put in.

Ok, so, here's how it would work. Lets say you make 50k/year - double the average american's salary. That's about $2600/month. Lets say you live in a 200,000 person metro area like the fox valley in WI. You're paying $500/month for a 2 bedroom apartment with parking, in a nice wooded neighborhood. $300/month for a brand new import car. Add $175 for utilities (including cable, phone, and internet), $250 for insurance (health and car). $400 for groceries. That leaves you with $1000/month in spending money. I think that's enough to take care of some clothes, going out to eat at nice restaurants, saving some for retirement, and paying for gas and oil changes.

 

[osli]

So that $1000 per month will probably cover gas, the occasional meal out, movie every now and then, decent clothes so you don't look like a hobo at work, stuff that breaks, trips to Wal-Mart for household items (you have to have a vacuum cleaner for that apartment unless you want it nasty forever... and believe me, the list of things that you think you only need to buy once never ends... welcome to the real world), and perhaps a little left over for savings. A total, perhaps, of a few percent of your gross. Hardly the way to plan for retirement.

But you do realize that leaves you with no money for a girlfriend, let alone a wife, and God forbid you try to raise a family. You know, this may sound trite, but there are still some of us in this world that would prefer not to outsource the rearing of our children. Increase your monthly estimates for groceries, gas, insurance, car note, clothing, and a hell of a lot of miscellaneous. And you still haven't addressed the issue of how to save for kid's college education, vehicles if you plan to ever help them get one.

And now that you are absolutely broke, forget about Christmas presents for your kids and wife. No anniversary present. And vacation? Hah!

Look... I know that for a bachelor (or bachelorette) who is fine living in an apartment, $50K/yr is plenty unless you live in one of the most expensive metropolitan areas of the country. And I realize that there are people out there raising families and getting by on $50K/yr. But you should understand that the national combined household average of some $42K/yr includes a lot of families that are just poor, relying on help from the government, church, or anywhere else they can get it. It includes a lot of people and families that can't afford that import car, apartment, utilities, or a phone. So when you think of an "average" American household of four living in an "average" suburban home, don't for on second be fooled into thinking that they are living that lifestyle on the "average" US Census reported household income.

And besides that, again, I must point out that there are some people who value raising a family in a house.

Also, let's not forget that today, at least, you can't ignore the price of malpractice insurance for doctors and the average debt incurred by medical students. Unless that $75K figure somehow magically transforms the face of medical education in this country, it is an impractical figure. You won't live any lifestyle at all... you will file bankruptcy.

 

[AxlxA]

lol. Come on guys, money is a huge issue in America. Of course if the avg salary of a physician drops to something that becomes the avg salary of upper middle class.. then i'm sure a lot of us would pick another track. Even nurses make about the same/more than 75k. This is such an unfair question. Sorryi 've been away from sdn for days and missed the start of this thread.

 

[daviddamoore]

Damn...you guys make me really realize what a crazy place the bay area is. I recently moved apartments and was really excited to find a one-bedroom for $1000 a month. If you are pulling 75k and paying 500 a month for a nice 2 bedroom then you don't have anything to worry about! However, if you really want to do well, ditch your car and buy a bike. My car was the biggest drain I found.............

 

[Hoberto]

3. Yes, I know what rent costs. I know what houses cost. I know what trying to live on a limited budget means. I'm not 19. Just because you demand a standard of living that cannot be supported by a 75k salary does not mean that everyone does.

I understand that there are alot of people on this msg board that would not practice medicine for 75k. That's fine with me, it's their lives. I understand the argument. The argument doesn't have much appeal to me. I certainly don't look down on them morally or intellectually for their choice, because it's their choice. I would appreciate it if you offer me the same consideration. Just because I do not agree with you does not make me "clueless".

Anastasis, I think that what I have bolded up there is another great point. Not everyone or every family requires a 75K lifestyle.

 

[AxlxA]

I will die if i dont get to eat caviet and shark fin soup every day for the rest of my life. I want to use my lobster bib!!!!

>75k is the only way to do it.

 

[pip00]

hell no

 

[tank you]

Damn...you guys make me really realize what a crazy place the bay area is. I recently moved apartments and was really excited to find a one-bedroom for $1000 a month. If you are pulling 75k and paying 500 a month for a nice 2 bedroom then you don't have anything to worry about! However, if you really want to do well, ditch your car and buy a bike. My car was the biggest drain I found.............

its not just bay area that is expensive in california, i live in orange county (irvine) and my 1-bedroom apt is $800.

 

[NiteOwl]

I voted yes. As long as I could pay off my debt then I seriously would. I would love to have a mansion and a nice car, but I wouldn't be willing to give up becomming a doctor to have those things. I would rather be a doctor with an average house and car rather than a CEO with a fancy house. There aren't many other professions out there that I am interested in, and the ones that I am interested still require 4 year undergrad/4 years grad/additional post-grad training, like psychologist, veterinarian, or maybe microbiologist. I don't know how much those professions make, but if I have to go to school that long, I want to be a doctor.

 

[Anastasis]

its not just bay area that is expensive in california, i live in orange county (irvine) and my 1-bedroom apt is $800.

Suddenly really glad I live in Texas. My old apt was 2 bedrooms and only 525

 

[gujuDoc]

I thought about my response some more and this is what I came up with.........

While I love the medical field, there is no way I could justify the costs of financial debts, malpractice insurance, etc. plus time invested in constant studying etc and accept that for all the years of training and time invested that 75k should be enough.

Ok I know I should reword that cuz it doesn't sound grammatically correct but I'm too lazy to do such right now. Oh and its late at night.

But basically, after talking to some friends tonight about how their siblings were doing in medical school, it got me thinking..........

While medicine is an awesome field to be in. Like all things in life, it comes with a huge price tag both financially and non-financially.

Financially, the costs of malpractice insurance, disability insurance, med school loans (unless you get scholarships), apt or house payments, other bills, etc. = wayyyyyyyyyyyyy toooooooooooooooooooooo much for only earnking 75k, even if I absolutely love the field. Let's not forget with stupid laws like 3 strikes and you are out, people can sue you left and right for the stupidest little thing. What happens if god forbid something like this were to happen??

Secondly, the other thing I was thinking about is this.........

Here in America: education = 4 years undergrad, 4 years med school, 3+ years residency. In other countries, most people get in medical school in what we call our undergrad years. If I'm going to spend all that time that I could be using working, then there's no way I'd go into it for 75k that I could make with a bachelor's and master's in some other fields or by creating my own business or something of that extent.

But that said........I'm not greedy and I'm not going into medicine solely for money or solely to save the world. I'm going in medicine because it is something I honestly think I'll enjoy, which will also have the icing on the cake of being well compensated while getting to interact with others on a day to day basis in a field that interests me both humanistically and on a scientific level.

 

[Anastasis]

Financially, the costs of malpractice insurance, disability insurance, med school loans (unless you get scholarships), apt or house payments, other bills, etc. = wayyyyyyyyyyyyy toooooooooooooooooooooo much for only earnking 75k, even if I absolutely love the field.

Malpractice is tax-deductable as a business expediture. Most of the docs I know include that in business expenses so when they talk about their income, it's after having paid for things like that. I know it doesn't make much of a difference but I thought I would point it out.

 

[albaniandoc]

First and foremost you have to think as a business person instead of thinking with your heart.
Going to school for 11 years is a huge missed income. As an RN in a specialty I make about 60K/year. If you multiply that by 10 years(say my income stays the same). That is $600,000. So after 10 years, 600,000 dollars missed, and probably 150,000 dollars in debt later, the doctor starts with $75K a year. Not to mention, retirement plans, investments, houses that most med sdudents don't have until they graduate. So if you think about it financially, no I would not like to become a doctor and make 75K/year.
I like to help people, I like to volunteer, hell I'll even join UNICEF and go to third world countries and work, but not if I am broke and in debt.

 

[Andrew_Doan]

Consider this same question with a different incentive package: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=3061388