would you teach a few lecture at a diploma mill?

[xiphoid2010]

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I'm a firm believer of education and always wanted to teach a few classes a year. The problem is, the only COP near by is a diploma mill, which I dislike them based on principle. Anybody else had debated this issue?

 

[Don Quichotte]

I think you can be a part of a student's education by being a preceptor, a tutor, mentor. You don't have to become a part of these 'institutions' that are attracting students by dangling the possibility of a 6 figure salary in front of naive people (who of course think because their work ethic and amazingness will go on to get great jobs all of them despite a protracted economic slump and massive expansion in the numbers of graduates ...everyone is above average these days...) so that they can make the school a whole lot of $$$.

 

[Hello2011]

What defines a diploma mill? Is it how long ago their first class was or the tuition?

 

[bacillus1]

I would do it, and I would try to teach them well. They may be a diploma mill, but if I think I can be a good professor for these students that are there already, what's the harm?

 

[xiphoid2010]

What defines a diploma mill? Is it how long ago their first class was or the tuition?

Just graduated their first class, tuition alone is more than $30K a year not counting other fees. As diploma mill as it comes. Admission only require 2.5 GPA in maths and sciences <face palm> ,

 

[xiphoid2010]

I would do it, and I would try to teach them well. They may be a diploma mill, but if I think I can be a good professor for these students that are there already, what's the harm?

Problem is looking at their first class's profile, almost all of the students went into retail, <10% went into residency. This is in comparison to good schools where >30% get a residency. I would be teaching ID, which would be useless for those going into retail. Would the time and energy spent be better spent taking care of my patients instead at the hospital or trying to benefit the very few students there that might be interested in learning?

 

[owlegrad]

I would not want a lecturer that had such a negative view of my school or class. Just saying.

I would say if you don't have a positive attitude going in, the chances of having a positive experience would be low. On the other hand, might be a good chance to try something you want to do.

 

[R xxx]

I would not want a lecturer that had such a negative view of my school or class. Just saying.

👍👍👍👍

You are kind of smart owlegrad

 

[owlegrad]

👍👍👍👍

You are kind of smart owlegrad

Stop, you are making me blush. 😳

 

[Kansas Pharmer]

Just graduated their first class, tuition alone is more than $30K a year not counting other fees. As diploma mill as it comes. Admission only require 2.5 GPA in maths and sciences <face palm> ,

My only concern would be professionally associated with a lesser organization. Other than that, if the pay is good, then WTH???

 

[KARM12]

I am struggling this myself... I enjoy teaching in the small group and lecture setting. There is an opportunity to give lectures at a newer school of pharmacy, but I feel weird because my alma mater is about the same distance from my work. However, my alma mater does not offer these opportunuties for preceptors (lecturing). I am probably going to try it for the fact that it will be good eperience if I want to transfer to academia down the road.

 

[xiphoid2010]

My only concern would be professionally associated with a lesser organization. Other than that, if the pay is good, then WTH???

My wife and I are both pharmacists, so we are not short on money. I would teach even if it's free because of my belief in education. Students who truly wants to learn and excel should be nurtured to rise and given the opportunity to lead. By the same token, those who are unworthy only hinders the rise of others who are more worthy.

This is an issue at diploma mill schools. I have no doubt there are a few students there who are worthy of a good education, but most of the class would be a waste of time for the lecturer. On one hand, I am thinking even if it is wasted on 99 out of 100 students, the 1 gem in the rough is still a good reason to teach. Then looking at my past, I also believe someone who truly wishes to learn will study and rise above on his/her own, no matter how bad the school or everyone around him is.

 

[xiphoid2010]

I am struggling this myself... I enjoy teaching in the small group and lecture setting. There is an opportunity to give lectures at a newer school of pharmacy, but I feel weird because my alma mater is about the same distance from my work. However, my alma mater does not offer these opportunuties for preceptors (lecturing). I am probably going to try it for the fact that it will be good eperience if I want to transfer to academia down the road.

You are lucky. The teaching experience gained will probably let you take a lecturer position at your old COP later. It's a move that makes sense.

I don't know about you, but precepting 1 or 2 students wasn't all that enjoyable. I had to precept 2 during the residency. While both are very nice to talk to, their performance were average which still made me feel somewhat disappointed. I dread being with a bad student for a full month. On the other hand, lecture and workshops were more interesting, there were always at least a few students in the class that knew their stuff. (also you are not stuck for a whole month). 😛

 

[Ackj]

You are lucky. The teaching experience gained will probably let you take a lecturer position at your old COP later. It's a move that makes sense.

I don't know about you, but precepting 1 or 2 students wasn't all that enjoyable. I had to precept 2 during the residency. While both are very nice to talk to, their performance were average which still made me feel somewhat disappointed. I dread being with a bad student for a full month. On the other hand, lecture and workshops were more interesting, there were always at least a few students in the class that knew their stuff. (also you are not stuck for a whole month). 😛

Maybe you could look into having an elective rotation. For our electives, we actually meet the preceptors and they kind of screen us to make sure we know enough to get a good experience out of it. If you could do that, you could try to weed out the lower end of the spectrum and only get those who wanted/deserved the rotation.


Also, what if the diploma mill happens to get a lot of good faculty, and provides a quality pharmacy education? Would that make them a good school, or is the label of "diploma mill" a permanent stain?

 

[Kansas Pharmer]

My wife and I are both pharmacists, so we are not short on money. I would teach even if it's free because of my belief in education. Students who truly wants to learn and excel should be nurtured to rise and given the opportunity to lead. By the same token, those who are unworthy only hinders the rise of others who are more worthy.

This is an issue at diploma mill schools. I have no doubt there are a few students there who are worthy of a good education, but most of the class would be a waste of time for the lecturer. On one hand, I am thinking even if it is wasted on 99 out of 100 students, the 1 gem in the rough is still a good reason to teach. Then looking at my past, I also believe someone who truly wishes to learn will study and rise above on his/her own, no matter how bad the school or everyone around him is.

I can see this. I used to teach at a bachelor level in "vo-tech" program (dont ask how it works, I still dont get why we gave college credit for a licensure program). Anyway, I really enjoyed it because the people there were in it to get the license. Sure, they could have skated by but they would never have passed the federal licensure exam. So, they were there to learn and it was great to pass on personal experience from "the real world" and have everyone want to hear it. I left that job almost 5 years ago and still talk to some of my students and its nice to hear that I may have given them something worthwhile at least one day in class

 

[All4MyDaughter]

With the attitude that you are expressing toward the school ("diploma mill") and students ("unworthy"), of course you shouldn't teach there. And if you think it's "a waste" to teach future retail pharmacists about Infectious Diseases, then DON'T DO IT. You say you don't need the money and you are contemptuous toward the school and its students (not the mark of a good educator, sorry) so just say no.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Also, what if the diploma mill happens to get a lot of good faculty, and provides a quality pharmacy education? Would that make them a good school, or is the label of "diploma mill" a permanent stain?

People are just using the term diploma mill to refer to all new schools. It's not accurate and shows ignorance about the true meaning of the term, but whatever. Not worth arguing anymore.

There are some ****ty colleges of pharmacy with abysmal NAPLEX pass rates that have been accredited a long time. I have no doubt that many of the newer schools are providing higher quality education than certain "older" schools. The question of "What is a good COP" can't be answered simply by looking at how long the school has been open.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Also, what if the diploma mill happens to get a lot of good faculty, and provides a quality pharmacy education? Would that make them a good school, or is the label of "diploma mill" a permanent stain?

Diploma mills can become reputable if it proves itself otherwise. The burden of proof rests with the conduct of the school and the quality of the students coming out. But ones that focus on turning a profit by taking in less qualified students and faculty, that reputation will only be further reinforced.

 

[xiphoid2010]

With the attitude that you are expressing toward the school ("diploma mill") and students ("unworthy"), of course you shouldn't teach there. And if you think it's "a waste" to teach future retail pharmacists about Infectious Diseases, then DON'T DO IT. You say you don't need the money and you are contemptuous toward the school and its students (not the mark of a good educator, sorry) so just say no.

Somebody is defensive.

I already said there are always a few good apples in a bad school. The question is are they enough to justify the time, or would spending time on my patients be of greater benefit. And you really think teaching students going into retail on the best way to manage vanco, dapto, and treatment guide lines HAP, VAP, febrile neutropenia, etc... is a good use of time?

I want nothing more than to see a good student rise to the top, but I also won't waste one minute more on a bad student who just want Cs for that paycheck. If your personal belief differs, then that's your choice. Not mine.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Somebody is defensive.

I already said there are always a few good apples in a bad school. The question is are they enough to justify the time, or would spending time on my patients be of greater benefit.

I want nothing more than to see a good student rise to the top, but I also won't waste a single minute on a bad student that's not worthy of the profession. If you have a problem with, then that's your choice. Not mine.

Defensive about what? Pretty sure I'm not affiliated with any schools in your area. I don't like your attitude, but that's nothing new.

Anyway, you aren't making any sense. You say you don't want to waste a "single minute" on a bad student who is "unworthy" and you think that your topic (ID) is useless to most of the students at this "diploma mill" school... but then you go on to say that it might be worth it if there is one worthy student who you can nurture or help rise to the top.... you're all over the place.

And how did you get this job offer again? Because saying "I think you're a diploma mill and you and your unworthy students with low GPAs are ruining the profession. It's a waste of time for me to try to impart my VAST knowledge on MOST of your students, but there might be 1 or 2 in the class who could learn from me, so I'd like to teach here" isn't very compelling in an applicant, no?

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I already said there are always a few good apples in a bad school. The question is are they enough to justify the time, or would spending time on my patients be of greater benefit. And you really think teaching students going into retail on the best way to manage vanco, dapto, and treatment guide lines HAP, VAP, febrile neutropenia, etc... is a good use of time?

Just a quick comment about this since you edited. Are you suggesting that students who will be practicing community pharmacy should be taught less than students who will practice in other areas? I don't buy those types of arguments because I think they promote intra-professional contempt and that's counterproductive to the interests of pharmacy as a whole. We have one pharmacy degree (PharmD) and it's a standardized curriculum. A lot of what is taught in pharmacy school is not used heavily in community pharmacy, or nuclear pharmacy, or regulatory affairs, or managed care, or whatever. I don't use inpatient stuff at all in my current role; it's all ambulatory care related. That doesn't mean it was a waste to learn it. We've decided on a set of competencies that all should learn to become a pharmacist and all pharmacy students should learn those things. Period. That's how I see it.

 

[xiphoid2010]

edit: double post

 

[xiphoid2010]

Anyway, you aren't making any sense. You say you don't want to waste a "single minute" on a bad student who is "unworthy" and you think that your topic (ID) is useless to most of the students at this "diploma mill" school... but then you go on to say that it might be worth it if there is one worthy student who you can nurture or help rise to the top.... you're all over the place.

I don't see what's hard to understand the question of whether the benefit of helping a few good students outweighs the time wasted on the bad students.

And how did you get this job offer again? Because saying "I think you're a diploma mill and you and your unworthy students with low GPAs are ruining the profession. It's a waste of time for me to try to impart my VAST knowledge on MOST of your students, but there might be 1 or 2 in the class who could learn from me, so I'd like to teach here" isn't very compelling in an applicant, no?

Using exaggeration and trying to speak for others is just shows you can't debate on a civil level. Just so you know, I don't like your attitude either.

One the pharmacist I work with know they are looking for lecturers, and asked me if I'm interested. I haven't decided.

Are you suggesting that students who will be practicing community pharmacy should be taught less than students who will practice in other areas? ....We've decided on a set of competencies that all should learn to become a pharmacist and all pharmacy students should learn those things. Period. That's how I see it.

Not less, but different jobs require different set of knowledge. If the majority of the students are already set on going to retail, then they would be better served with education weighed more heavily towards that. They would only be sitting in an ID lecture because they are forced to be there by the school's accreditation requirement. Instead, I rather teach an elective on ID to the 5-10 students in there who are actually interested and will benefit from it. That's how I see it.

 

[museabuse]

My favorite subjects in school were microbiology, immunology, and infectious diseases. Especially HIV. I probably knew those subjects better than anyone in my class.
I work in retail. I don't use them at all, but I still interested in those areas. I would have felt cheated if they were replaced with how to kiss customers ass 101 and how to telemarket to increase script count 102 and how to navigate corporate red tape 201 and insurance rejections 151.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Not less, but different jobs require different set of knowledge. If the majority of the students are already set on going to retail, then they would be better served with education weighed more heavily towards that. They would only be sitting in an ID lecture because they are forced to be there by the school's accreditation requirement. Instead, I rather teach an elective on ID to the 5-10 students in there who are actually interested and will benefit from it. That's how I see it.

As muse's comment below illustrates, you shouldn't assume that students going into retail aren't interested in and can't benefit from lectures on ID. My problem with your arguments in this thread is that it appears that you're letting your distaste and contempt for the "diploma mill" and it's "unworthy" students lead you to make assumptions about how teaching most of the students there would be a waste of your time. I wasn't the first, nor the only person in this thread to point out that your attitude toward the school and students is negative.

Maybe you should look into doing an ID elective or taking students for an advanced ID rotation. You might find that more satisfying.

My favorite subjects in school were microbiology, immunology, and infectious diseases. Especially HIV. I probably knew those subjects better than anyone in my class.
I work in retail. I don't use them at all, but I still interested in those areas. I would have felt cheated if they were replaced with how to kiss customers ass 101 and how to telemarket to increase script count 102 and how to navigate corporate red tape 201 and insurance rejections 151.

Agreed. I don't think it would appropriate to "track" students in pharmacy school that way anyway. The goal of pharmacy school is to build a competent generalist practitioner. Accreditation standards are designed to make sure that everyone learns the same basic curriculum. The things that one needs to learn to work in specific areas of pharmacy (like your list above) are best learned via OJT or through residency/fellowship or via electives in pharmacy school. But no cutting things out of pharmacy school because "retail students don't need them." 👎

 

[xiphoid2010]

Muse and ALL4:

I agree up to a point that the curriculum should include some basic ID that would benefit all. However, I disagree that all students should be taught the higher acuity ID. Many professions branch off students into different areas based on their interest. Engineering, law, business for example. Even medicine allow students to customize year 3/4 to a greater extent.

But we are going off on a tangent. I'm certainly not the first, perhaps even represent most preceptors, who dislike diploma mills and low quality students, yet still would hate to see the few good students mixed in there take the fall for it. As potential preceptors/lecturers, it is a decision is for us to make based on personal beliefs and risk/benefit analysis.

So again, those who had similar dilemma of whether to give a diploma mill a chance please let's hear it. What was the decision, and how did it go?

 

[Ackj]

Not less, but different jobs require different set of knowledge. If the majority of the students are already set on going to retail, then they would be better served with education weighed more heavily towards that. They would only be sitting in an ID lecture because they are forced to be there by the school's accreditation requirement. Instead, I rather teach an elective on ID to the 5-10 students in there who are actually interested and will benefit from it. That's how I see it.

I can agree with this. Rather than learning about something I'd never use, I would rather have something relevant. Management, accounting, something like that would be way more applicable than some crazy IV abx vs super rare bugs lecture, considering I would not be dispensing IVs anyway. Sure I still need to know about some antibiotics, but the really bad stuff wouldn't be outpatient anyway.

My favorite subjects in school were microbiology, immunology, and infectious diseases. Especially HIV. I probably knew those subjects better than anyone in my class.
I work in retail. I don't use them at all, but I still interested in those areas. I would have felt cheated if they were replaced with how to kiss customers ass 101 and how to telemarket to increase script count 102 and how to navigate corporate red tape 201 and insurance rejections 151.

See, it's fine to be interested in something, but if it's not helping your practice, your time probably could have been spent better. I'm interested in playing guitar and cycling, but there's no class in pharmacy school there.

As muse's comment below illustrates, you shouldn't assume that students going into retail aren't interested in and can't benefit from lectures on ID.

I don't think it would appropriate to "track" students in pharmacy school that way anyway. The goal of pharmacy school is to build a competent generalist practitioner. Accreditation standards are designed to make sure that everyone learns the same basic curriculum. The things that one needs to learn to work in specific areas of pharmacy (like your list above) are best learned via OJT or through residency/fellowship or via electives in pharmacy school. But no cutting things out of pharmacy school because "retail students don't need them." 👎

I agree about OJT/residency, which is why you can leave these specific topics out of general pharmacy lectures. If a student was going to be in a position to need to know these things, they would be taught it in the appropriate place.

 

[PumpkinSmasher]

Somebody is defensive.

I already said there are always a few good apples in a bad school. The question is are they enough to justify the time, or would spending time on my patients be of greater benefit. And you really think teaching students going into retail on the best way to manage vanco, dapto, and treatment guide lines HAP, VAP, febrile neutropenia, etc... is a good use of time?

I want nothing more than to see a good student rise to the top, but I also won't waste one minute more on a bad student who just want Cs for that paycheck. If your personal belief differs, then that's your choice. Not mine.

If the school is having ID taught by a guy with one year of residency and a few months of smaller sized hospital experience, I think that speaks a little to the depth of their faculty.... just my opinion.

I found the experience and education my ID lecturers had to be invaluable, made for great cases and overall material. Both guys were PGY-2 residency trained and fellowship and have been working in academic medical centers for last 5-10 years. They found it worth their time to come teach us and 75% of my fellow classmates went to retail.

 

[Pharmacy Kid]

In fight club, Tyler Durden works as a movie projectionist. He spliced split-second frames of hard-core porn into box-office movies. When people watched the movie, they never saw the frame but for some reason they felt uncomfortable and started crying during the movie.

You should do the same thing with your presentations except this time, splice split-second powerpoint slides that say "Your school sucks" and "Diploma Mill".

 

[lorain]

im not qualified enough to teach in lecture, but i am preceptor for them when they come on rotation, and all I can say is that the knowledge base of some of these diploma mill students is really non existent

 

[R2pharmD2]

Just graduated their first class, tuition alone is more than $30K a year not counting other fees. As diploma mill as it comes. Admission only require 2.5 GPA in maths and sciences <face palm> ,

The cost of tuition and minimum GPA requirements seem like silly reasons to label a school a "diploma mill". There are plenty of established schools that cost >$30K and/or have minimum GPA requirements of 2.5.

Have you worked with any of the school's students before though? Why not give it a shot and see how it goes? Either your suspicions of the school being a diploma mill will be confirmed, or they'll change your mind. Either way you'll learn something, and gain some teaching experience to boot.

I do agree with others who have said that you shouldn't go into it with such negative opinions about the students there though. If you can't go into it with at least a neutral attitude, then it's probably not worthwhile.

 

[Rockinacoustic]

OP, you are equivalent to teachers who don't want to teach in inner city schools assuming the kids don't want to learn.

Please don't do it, your attitude towards teaching sucks.

 

[Pharm LND]

The cost of tuition and minimum GPA requirements seem like silly reasons to label a school a "diploma mill". There are plenty of established schools that cost >$30K and/or have minimum GPA requirements of 2.5.

Have you worked with any of the school's students before though? Why not give it a shot and see how it goes? Either your suspicions of the school being a diploma mill will be confirmed, or they'll change your mind. Either way you'll learn something, and gain some teaching experience to boot.

I do agree with others who have said that you shouldn't go into it with such negative opinions about the students there though. If you can't go into it with at least a neutral attitude, then it's probably not worthwhile.

Definitely. You cannot judge a school just by the minimum requirements. For many schools where all they require is a 2.5, I'm sure their applicant pool's average GPA is well beyond. In order to determine whether or not a school is a diploma mill, you have to see the types of students those colleges admit via their statistics, how long they have been open, cost, do they provide scholarships?, etc. I could name plenty of examples of clear cut diploma mill pharmacy schools but that's for another day.

 

[xiphoid2010]

If the school is having ID taught by a guy with one year of residency and a few months of smaller sized hospital experience, I think that speaks a little to the depth of their faculty.... just my opinion.

Totally agree there. If I'm an established school with a good reputation and record, I sure would want at least some one with a PGY-2, preferably someone with few years experience at a major university medical center, for ID lectures. But it's obvious that they are having trouble convincing highly qualified people to affiliate with them, and still looking for someone to help teach in the spring.

 

[xiphoid2010]

OP, you are equivalent to teachers who don't want to teach in inner city schools assuming the kids don't want to learn.

Please don't do it, your attitude towards teaching sucks.

You don't even know what you are talking about. I grew up in an inner city ghetto. I saw first hand that for each one of us that made it there are dozens more that didn't want to learn.

Given that background, I have absolute faith in a good student's ability to rise up through education under any circumstance. I love students who really want to learn and better themselves, and dislike those who don't give a crap or shooting for a passing grade.

That's my teaching philosophy. I don't expect most students to like it. But if a good student wants to learn, I will work my butt off to teach him/her everything I know.

 

[xiphoid2010]

The cost of tuition and minimum GPA requirements seem like silly reasons to label a school a "diploma mill". There are plenty of established schools that cost >$30K and/or have minimum GPA requirements of 2.5.

Look, this school is a diploma mill. Everyone can give hypothetical situations where occasional something that sounds like a duck, walk like a duck, but isn't a duck but is a swan. But really, isn't that most of the time just an attempt to make the ducks feel better about themselves?

 

[PharmDstudent]

People are just using the term diploma mill to refer to all new schools. It's not accurate and shows ignorance about the true meaning of the term, but whatever. Not worth arguing anymore.

There are some ****ty colleges of pharmacy with abysmal NAPLEX pass rates that have been accredited a long time. I have no doubt that many of the newer schools are providing higher quality education than certain "older" schools. The question of "What is a good COP" can't be answered simply by looking at how long the school has been open.

So low NAPLEX pass rates = ****ty college of pharmacy? For someone so defensive about "diploma mills", that's outright hypocritical.
You don't want your COP thrown under the bus, but you have no problem throwing others. 🙄
I went to one of those "****ty colleges of pharmacy", and I turned out just fine.

 

[R2pharmD2]

Look, this school is a diploma mill. Everyone can give hypothetical situations where occasional something that sounds like a duck, walk like a duck, but isn't a duck but is a swan. But really, isn't that most of the time just an attempt to make the ducks feel better about themselves?

Well, if you insist, then I must concede the point

I'm not out to change your mind about anything, and you very well may be right that it's a craptacular school, but that's sort of ridiculous evidence to base it on. My point was that you could be mistaken and you might find more intelligent students there who are eager to learn than you'd expect based on this "evidence". If you disagree with that, then I imagine you would be miserable teaching there and probably should decline. Just my 2 cents.

 

[R xxx]

Why would you agree with someone who is mocking you?

I'm telling you...There are things that even well established schools can't teach...such as common sense and compassion

 

[xiphoid2010]

Well, if you insist, then I must concede the point

I'm not out to change your mind about anything, and you very well may be right that it's a craptacular school, but that's sort of ridiculous evidence to base it on. My point was that you could be mistaken and you might find more intelligent students there who are eager to learn than you'd expect based on this "evidence". If you disagree with that, then I imagine you would be miserable teaching there and probably should decline. Just my 2 cents.

I understand, you are not in this city and don't know the school but still want to defend your argument. Admirable, but your hopes are misplaced in this case..

I strongly agree that there must be a few good students in even the worst diploma mill. Just wondering if the joy of helping these few outweighs the disappointment I will have with the others. Anybody in this situation would have to think about it.

 

[R2pharmD2]

I understand, you are not in this city and don't know the school but still want to defend your argument. Admirable, but your hopes in this case is misplaced.

Fair enough. I don't know which school you're talking about and you may be privy to more info then you're letting on. Good luck with whatever choice you make.

 

[R xxx]

What is the newest school in Texas? lol

 

[xiphoid2010]

Fair enough. I don't know which school you're talking about and you may be privy to more info then you're letting on. Good luck with whatever choice you make.

Thanks. Agree to disagree.

People will make different choices when faced with this scenario. Many wouldn't even consider teaching there, which is likely why it is still hunting for lecturers. Some might truly want to teach every student, regardless they are good or bad. Most faculties there probably teach because it pay the bills. I'm none of the above, and probably will wait and see.

 

[Pharm LND]

What is the newest school in Texas? lol

A school that is on the "fast track" to open in two years apparently. Hello diploma mill #4 in Texas. 😱

 

[owlegrad]

People are just using the term diploma mill to refer to all new schools. It's not accurate and shows ignorance about the true meaning of the term, but whatever. Not worth arguing anymore.

😍

 

[All4MyDaughter]

So low NAPLEX pass rates = ****ty college of pharmacy? For someone so defensive about "diploma mills", that's outright hypocritical.
You don't want your COP thrown under the bus, but you have no problem throwing others. 🙄
I went to one of those "****ty colleges of pharmacy", and I turned out just fine.

Yeah, low NAPLEX pass rates are one indicator of problems at any given college of pharmacy. As are problems with accreditation, faculty retention issues, etc. I didn't name school names, but if you want to, have at it.

My point is that there are lesser quality schools that have been open a long time, so one should not simply use a school's tenure to judge its quality.

Your last point is definitely debatable.

 

[confettiflyer]

I read this whole thread and have yet to see a coherent/logical definition of "diploma mill."

Soo...minimum 2.5 GPA, mostly retail graduates, tuition greater than 30k? That's like practically every school out there.

Any school that has opened after 2000? Hell I run into people that have contempt for schools that opened in the late-90's, or hell anything after the year 1900 for that matter.

Low NAPLEX pass rates? Every school I can think of that has had that problem has been an established/well known program.

New/inexperienced faculty? Most new schools poach from established programs so this can't be it.


soooo....anyone want to answer my question? It's fine if no one does, I throw out random terms and make assumptions all the time, so much easier to do on SDN.

 

[samuricool]

Xiphoid, do you also go by the name terelle pryor?

 

[xiphoid2010]

Xiphoid, do you also go by the name terelle pryor?

No. 😕

 

[owlegrad]

Xiphoid, do you also go by the name terelle pryor?

No. 😕

I had to google that one. I have no idea what samuri was trying to get at though.