WOW NO JOBS IN PATHOLOGY

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PathologyOptimist said:
Dear Medical Students,

If you are considering pathology, I recommend that instead of looking at negative posts on the internet speak to a pathologist in your community. You will find that there is significantly less hysteria out there than is vastly overrepresented on this board. I am currently wrapping up training with a one-year surgical pathology fellowship and have identified several job opportunities in a rather narrow geographic area of my choosing (this includes private practice jobs). I have also made some important personal connections along the way, knowing that I wanted to practice in a certain area. If you are not geographically restricted, you should have no problem finding a job if you are competent, personable, and a diligent worker.

I know zero people who I have trained with who have had any difficulties obtaining a fulfilling job, as long as they were the above three things that I've listed. I've known two who have had some difficulty, but they were ranked at the bottom of their respective classes. They both still found jobs.
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Not exactly reassuring...
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BU Pathology said:
There was a recent twitter discussion called path 2 path. One commentator mentioned that he was having trouble recruiting good candidates. There are good jobs for good candidates.
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So does that speak to the overtraining in our field, putting out bad candidates, or that the field is so rife with job seekers that the market has a hard time sorting through them all? Or was it simply that the recruiter was trying to fill a crap job or in a crap location?
Could be a combination of any of those things...a recruiter having a hard time finding "good candidates" is meaningless without the specifics and isn't necessarily a good thing.

"There are good jobs for good candidates" = there are crap jobs for the excess number or bad candidates that we pump out every year because academic departments either need the grossing help, the ACGME/CMS funding, or the pride.

Tired of hearing the "if you're a good candidate you'll find a job" mantra.....perhaps if we did a better job in the training process, or used more discretion with the number of people we're actually training, we wouldn't have to couch complaints about the job market in "well if you're a good candidate you'll do fine." Academic departments that churn out residents could care less what the overall job market / supply is like as long as it suits their department and plays up their importance / volume / perceived need...most departments nationwide could (should) shave off 1 resident position and would get by just fine. --and those that only have 1 resident per year should just close because the volume is likely inadequate.
 
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octopusprime said:
So does that speak to the overtraining in our field, putting out bad candidates, or that the field is so rife with job seekers that the market has a hard time sorting through them all? Or was it simply that the recruiter was trying to fill a crap job or in a crap location?
Could be a combination of any of those things...a recruiter having a hard time finding "good candidates" is meaningless without the specifics and isn't necessarily a good thing.

"There are good jobs for good candidates" = there are crap jobs for the excess number or bad candidates that we pump out every year because academic departments either need the grossing help, the ACGME/CMS funding, or the pride.

Tired of hearing the "if you're a good candidate you'll find a job" mantra.....perhaps if we did a better job in the training process, or used more discretion with the number of people we're actually training, we wouldn't have to couch complaints about the job market in "well if you're a good candidate you'll do fine." Academic departments that churn out residents could care less what the overall job market / supply is like as long as it suits their department and plays up their importance / volume / perceived need...most departments nationwide could (should) shave off 1 resident position and would get by just fine. --and those that only have 1 resident per year should just close because the volume is likely inadequate.
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The academic "good candidate" is someone who will take a decade or two of lowballed pay subserviance and not say a peep for fear of getting deported.
 
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Thrombus,
You have no knowledge of immigration process involved.
 
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Pathbusiness said:
Thrombus,
You have no knowledge of immigration process involved. Talking like an idiot on this topic.
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I don’t think that’s the point. The gist is that Big Academia, Big Hospital, Big Corporation wants a “team player” who will shut up and dribble while the owners, GM, and coaches scrape a large portion of fruit off the lowly pathologists labor. The FMG population is much more likely to be amenable to this type of an arrangement than an All American, high functioning, alpha male personality
 
You accomplish a huge decrease in pathology residency positions=greatest pathologist of this generation.
 
Thrombus said:
I don’t think that’s the point. The gist is that Big Academia, Big Hospital, Big Corporation wants a “team player” who will shut up and dribble while the owners, GM, and coaches scrape a large portion of fruit off the lowly pathologists labor. The FMG population is much more likely to be amenable to this type of an arrangement than an All American, high functioning, alpha male personality
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The problem is not AMG vs IMG in pathology, or as a matter of fact in any field. Both do well afterwards. The jobs in pathology suck(majority of them), and the ones which don't, start sucking after few "good years".
 
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Business model changes, practices are sold, and bought by big players. Pathologists mostly become part of a system where there is no leverage.
 
So what is the advice for those getting ready to apply for jobs...other than 'be normal' and train at good places...pay, vacation, benefits...anything specific for academic jobs?
 
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bauber said:
So what is the advice for those getting ready to apply for jobs...other than 'be normal' and train at good places...pay, vacation, benefits...anything specific for academic jobs?
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With respect to academic jobs right out of training, you will have zero say or leverage on pay, vacation, or benefits. 99% of time it is a standardized contract that you take or leave.
 
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Pay difference also is significant in academics vs private. Best is to look for a hospital based practice, which is not a captive corporation. Pathmills doing interstate biopsy business is a roller coaster ride(in my experience) with high likelihood of getting lynched in a brutal game.
 
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pablo1992 said:
IF you are in MED SCHOOL and applying to a PATHOLOGY RESIDENCY PROGRAM DO NOT DO IT!!!!!!!
I REPEAT DO NOT DO IT!!!!!!!!!!! THERE IS NO JOBS OUT HERE
DO NOT SAY YOU WERE NOT WARNED!!!!!!!!
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**** my life
 
neoexile said:
Threads like these are why I ranked pathology last when I was going through the match lol. Now, im happy at a not pathology residency :p
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What does that even mean. Ranked pathology last in the match? How many specialties did you apply too? You were either undecided or a poor candidate. Either way, if you actually liked path but ranked it last because of threads on SDN, that is sad.
 
Yup kinda sad when you see people applying for path as a second choice. Path is so different from other fields I don't know how people can just apply to path as a "second choice".
 
Doctors Without Jobs

Saw this crop up in the last few days. They bought a billboard outside my hospital. I couldn’t resist so I looked up the website. Not surprisingly it’s about MDs that could not secure residency and what a sad joke it is considering there’s a “doctor shortage”. But perhaps I challenge the assumption that there is a shortage in the first place.
 
Fpg1245 said:
Doctors Without Jobs

Saw this crop up in the last few days. They bought a billboard outside my hospital. I couldn’t resist so I looked up the website. Not surprisingly it’s about MDs that could not secure residency and what a sad joke it is considering there’s a “doctor shortage”. But perhaps I challenge the assumption that there is a shortage in the first place.
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MD’s who could not get residencies = MD’s I don’t want looking at my
biopsy or operating on my Wife’s c-spine or evaluating my Grandson’ rash. We have way, way too much deadwood in the pathology community.( you do not want me to tell you how little you work).The “barefoot doctor” system of China is their version of “extenders” or what ever. We have ‘em, they are not unique. (PA, ARNP, etc.) We now have, and will forever have, a 2 (or more) tier system of health care. I mean, really, we have a 2 ( or more) tier system for damned near everything in life. You will do very, very well in pathology if you can say you have (honestly) nailed the three A’s, you have not financially destroyed yourself with debt and you have mastered the art of delayed gratification ( yes, that means
during H.S. and college).
And, don’t allow social media to nail you. It is everywhere. ( read 3 times)
 
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mikesheree said:
MD’s who could not get residencies = MD’s I don’t want looking at my
biopsy or operating on my Wife’s c-spine or evaluating my Grandson’ rash. We have way, way too much deadwood in the pathology community.( you do not want me to tell you how little you work).The “barefoot doctor” system of China is their version of “extenders” or what ever. We have ‘em, they are not unique. (PA, ARNP, etc.) We now have, and will forever have, a 2 (or more) tier system of health care. I mean, really, we have a 2 ( or more) tier system for damned near everything in life. You will do very, very well in pathology if you can say you have (honestly) nailed the three A’s, you have not financially destroyed yourself with debt and you have mastered the art of delayed gratification ( yes, that means
during H.S. and college).
And, don’t allow social media to nail you. It is everywhere. ( read 3 times)
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Thanks for sharing mikesheree.
 
BU Pathology said:
Medical students - do not be alarmed if you are considering pathology. There are several jobs available in our discipline. The link lists several positions (although several of these 1015 positions are not actually for pathologists). You should also be aware that many private practice positions are not advertised and candidates are found through word of mouth.
Recent Jobs - Pathology Jobs Today

Daniel Remick, M.D.
Boston University School of Medicine, Boston Medical Center
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I agree. As a fellow, I currently find myself deciding between multiple job offers right now. Keep in mind, it is only October, and I do not finish fellowship until July, and these are all top institutions. Don't despair. There are great jobs out there.
 
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Sarahkeet said:
I agree. As a fellow, I currently find myself deciding between multiple job offers right now. Keep in mind, it is only October, and I do not finish fellowship until July, and these are all top institutions. Don't despair. There are great jobs out there.
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Thank you for your input! Great to hear as an MS4 who just applied
 
LBJLA23 said:
Thank you for your input! Great to hear as an MS4 who just applied
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Also remember to look on the ACLPS job board. Come of the best jobs end up posted on there even though it is a smaller list of jobs.
 
Sarahkeet said:
I agree. As a fellow, I currently find myself deciding between multiple job offers right now. Keep in mind, it is only October, and I do not finish fellowship until July, and these are all top institutions. Don't despair. There are great jobs out there.
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By "top institutions" do you mean to say these are academic jobs? Many people thrive in academic jobs and have great, successful careers. And I guess it's nice to know for people banking on PSLF. But I don't think availability of assistant professor positions in academia is representative of anything, especially if it's the typical 3 weeks PTO + 1 CME, $140-180k, publish/teach/signout position.

On a tangential note, I had a conversation a couple weeks ago with a recruiter who was looking for locum coverage on behalf of an "institution" in the northern midwest. They were offering $800/day for an average volume of 60 GI/breast/gyn accessions (not blocks or specimens) / day.
 
Pathological_Liar said:
By "top institutions" do you mean to say these are academic jobs? Many people thrive in academic jobs and have great, successful careers. And I guess it's nice to know for people banking on PSLF. But I don't think availability of assistant professor positions in academia is representative of anything, especially if it's the typical 3 weeks PTO + 1 CME, $140-180k, publish/teach/signout position.

On a tangential note, I had a conversation a couple weeks ago with a recruiter who was looking for locum coverage on behalf of an "institution" in the northern midwest. They were offering $800/day for an average volume of 60 GI/breast/gyn accessions (not blocks or specimens) / day.
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I have the same question...define "top institutions"...because little blue MGH shields on your luggage tags and lapel pins sounds great and might get a few people 'in the know' slightly beyond flaccid but doesn't qualify as a "great job".
 
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Wow! I just stumbled on this and it’s not really my topic but $800/d
for 60 ACCESSIONS is truly BS. Damn, I am glad I am done with this
downward spiral of misery for no pay!
 
mikesheree said:
Wow! I just stumbled on this and it’s not really my topic but $800/d
for 60 ACCESSIONS is truly BS. Damn, I am glad I am done with this downward spiral of misery for no pay!
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Yeah - I'm not a business whiz, but gotta agree with mikesheree on this one...that's pretty pitiful.
 
I would put info from reddit in the trust factor range somewhere between Mad magazine and communist pamphlets during the Khmer Rouge, irrespective of the fact that a guy with a handle of 'Bigdi*kdoctor' posted it.

That being said, I assume by stating he and his co-fellows are coming from a "Big 10 institution" in the East coast actually means "Top 10", because the Big 10 as most everyone thinks of is a NCAA conference and the only two East coast pathology programs in the real Big 10 conference are Maryland and Rutgers which are average at best.

Assuming what he says is true, these numbers are within the ballpark for someone just graduating. The folks going into pp are probably just told what their salary bumps are without true partner income. Otherwise, if the best out of seven people coming from a "Big 10" institution can muster is $240K as their income ceiling, that's pretty lousy. And why in the life on earth, would someone do Clinical Chem + Gyn + Cyto...? For trainees out there, take note: if you're going to do multiple fellowships, it is advisable for them to complement one another, otherwise it can be a red-flag for prospective non-academic employers and actually hurt your job chances; or, be a complete waste of time because you won't be utilizing all your subspecialty skills once you're out in practice...
 
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Wow those are low numbers...starting PP at 200k in undesirable places? Jeez.
 
Complete crap. We are in a shortage??? Haha. Stay out of path. This field is a constant joke.
 
Ouch. I already felt the job I got was pretty reasonable (275 -> 320 after one year), but this makes me feel much better. One of my connections knew of a potential 500-600 opening in a popular city, but it didn't pan out. So there is still some big stuff out there.
 
If that long report is true there is sure as hell gonna be a shortage of
pathologists because almost nobody can (or should have to), after 4
years undergrad, 4 med, MINIMUM of 4 yr pge (probably 5) be paid
that little while having , on average, 200k debt. To start out at ~$185k
at the bottom of the academic ladder ( which doesn’t have many steps)
is a crime.
People are not going to continue it.
 
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Man I made a mistake applying Path. Guess I'll have to endure a year and then I'll switch to another specialty. Probably Rads or something. You live and you learn.
 
I think the era of people getting rich in ANY field of medicine is ending or already over. The "I made a mistake in pathology residency" is implying a false narrative, one that says somewhere in medicine there is a niche immune and above market forces. There is not.

Look at the pay in the National Health Service of the UK, it is a fraction of the pay in the U.S. and still their budget strains with a constant parade of cut backs to this already miserly pay scale. That is the future at this point, like it or not.

In 20-30 years (or maybe sooner?), you would have to be crazy to go to medical school at all. Maybe in 50 years from now it will be like becoming a monk or nun, people will look at you weird if you even say you are pre-med.
 
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LBJLA23 said:
Man I made a mistake applying Path. Guess I'll have to endure a year and then I'll switch to another specialty. Probably Rads or something. You live and you learn.
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lol, good one...
 
mikesheree said:
If that long report is true there is sure as hell gonna be a shortage of
pathologists because almost nobody can (or should have to), after 4
years undergrad, 4 med, MINIMUM of 4 yr pge (probably 5) be paid
that little while having , on average, 200k debt. To start out at ~$185k
at the bottom of the academic ladder ( which doesn’t have many steps)
is a crime.
People are not going to continue it.
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FMGs will. That's the whole problem with us now. We import and train our cheap replacements.
 
LBJLA23 said:
AMG. 250 on Step I. All honors in clerkships. I can do whatever the hell I want.

Go away please. You know nothing.
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Hahaha-Maybe if you applied as an M4. You’re an idiot if you think going into Rads is like trying to transfer into IM or family medicine after starting residency.
 
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LADoc00 said:
I think the era of people getting rich in ANY field of medicine is ending or already over. The "I made a mistake in pathology residency" is implying a false narrative, one that says somewhere in medicine there is a niche immune and above market forces. There is not.

Look at the pay in the National Health Service of the UK, it is a fraction of the pay in the U.S. and still their budget strains with a constant parade of cut backs to this already miserly pay scale. That is the future at this point, like it or not.

In 20-30 years (or maybe sooner?), you would have to be crazy to go to medical school at all. Maybe in 50 years from now it will be like becoming a monk or nun, people will look at you weird if you even say you are pre-med.
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You got that one right LA. The good ship USS TEFRA sailed in 1983 and they
have gathered a particularly motley crew since.
 
jupiterianvibe said:
Depebds on where you're coming from. There's an inherent distrust of pathology residents.
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I have interviews at MGH, Brigham, Stanford, UCSF, Hopkins, UPENN, Mayo, etc. I doubt they will have any distrust.
 
pathslides said:
Hahaha-Maybe if you applied as an M4. You’re an idiot if you think going into Rads is like trying to transfer into IM or family medicine after starting residency.
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I agree Dr. 250 ( you must be very smart). I don’t think you really know what you are facing.
 
LBJLA23 said:
I have interviews at MGH, Brigham, Stanford, UCSF, Hopkins, UPENN, Mayo, etc. I doubt they will have any distrust.
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Please stop. We now all feel like a bunch of dummy losers. I am sure your distinguished career at Little Company of Agony Hospital will shame us all.
Such big, big, impressive names— oops, i almost ejaculated.
 
LBJLA, are you not at the start of your 4th year of med school. If so, isn’t there buckets of time to choose a specialty?
 
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