WOW NO JOBS IN PATHOLOGY

[pablo1992]

IF you are in MED SCHOOL and applying to a PATHOLOGY RESIDENCY PROGRAM DO NOT DO IT!!!!!!!
I REPEAT DO NOT DO IT!!!!!!!!!!! THERE IS NO JOBS OUT HERE
DO NOT SAY YOU WERE NOT WARNED!!!!!!!!

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[Dro133]

IF you are in MED SCHOOL and applying to a PATHOLOGY RESIDENCY PROGRAM DO NOT DO IT!!!!!!!
I REPEAT DO NOT DO IT!!!!!!!!!!! THERE IS NO JOBS OUT HERE
DO NOT SAY YOU WERE NOT WARNED!!!!!!!!

Where did you go to medical school and where did you do your training, if I may ask?

 

[BU Pathology]

Medical students - do not be alarmed if you are considering pathology. There are several jobs available in our discipline. The link lists several positions (although several of these 1015 positions are not actually for pathologists). You should also be aware that many private practice positions are not advertised and candidates are found through word of mouth.
Recent Jobs - Pathology Jobs Today

Daniel Remick, M.D.
Boston University School of Medicine, Boston Medical Center

 

[path24]

Med students. Click on the link above. Look for actually pathologist jobs. It supports the first post. The pathology job market is bad and the future will not be better.

 

[octopusprime]

...You should also be aware that many private practice positions are not advertised and candidates are found through word of mouth.

Daniel Remick, M.D.
Boston University School of Medicine, Boston Medical Center

HUGE caveat there, Danny...
Few PP jobs are posted nationally because there is an inevitable deluge of applicants...MOST PP positions are not advertised. This is in stark contrast to essentially every single other specialty.

To say there are "no jobs in pathology" is an exaggeration...there are jobs: Crappy academic positions, national lab/corporate gigs, and glass-pushing workhorse positions for big derm, GI and GU outfits, all of which pay <50 cents on the dollar (and offer atrocious vaca and work hours) because the money has to be 1.) reinvested on what makes them more money: clinical testing and global billing, or 2.) paid to someone else higher up the food chain.

To say there are no jobs is an exaggeration, but it's closer to the truth than the 8u!!$hi+ promoted by the likes of Remick & other completely out-of-touch and insulated academicians.

 

[Thrombus]

Ask your residency programs how many recruiters visit? Then go ask other fields the same question? ENOUGH SAID!!

DONT LISTEN TO ACADEMICS AS THEIR JOBS ARE SUBSIDIZED BY LEGIONS OF RESIDENTS, FELLOWS, AND OTHER MINIONS KNOWN AS JUNIOR FACULTY (people who can’t get a job) THAT PAY LESS THAN 80k A YEAR!!

FLEE PATHOLOGY NOW!!!!

 

[MetroPath]

There are jobs out there but to land good jobs it's by word of mouth so make as many friends as possible and work hard in residency to be the best you can be.

Everyone from my residency has a job although most have had to do 1-2 fellowships.

If you are geographically restricted you may have trouble landing a job in a particular area. I have a few friends working for Quest and they are happy. They don't complain about pathology at all compared to the people on this board. A lot on life has to do with who you know aka connections.

Don't be the resident in your program with the personality disorder or have trouble getting along with other people. You will have issues anywhere you go in life.

Make sure your path skills are as good as you can be to put yourself in a good position.

 

[pablo1992]

WHY DONT WE GET THE SAME JOB OPPORTUNITIES AS OTHER SPECIALTIES MY GOD I REGRET GOING INTO PATH.NOW I CANT FIND A GOOD JOB THAT PAYS WELL.

I AGREE "FLEE PATHO" IF YOU CAN

 

[pablo1992]

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU HAVE A PERSONALITY DISORDER FACT OF THE MATTER IS THERE IS NO JOBS OUT THERE,THERE IS JUST WAY TOO MANY PATHOLOGISTS COMPARED TO POSITIONS OFFERED

 

[MetroPath]

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU HAVE A PERSONALITY DISORDER FACT OF THE MATTER IS THERE IS NO JOBS OUT THERE,THERE IS JUST WAY TOO MANY PATHOLOGISTS COMPARED TO POSITIONS OFFERED

Thrombus is that you????

 

[LADoc00]

Sigh....the only thing posts like this do is discourage actual GOOD APPLICANTS from applying, further contributing to the downward spiral of the profession.

The crap applicants will still pile in as usual and create the excess supply/downward income pressure they always have...

There are plenty of jobs at the VA for example.

1. Get a VA job or other government pathology job like for a prison
2. If no. 1 isnt a go, get a job in the Middle East like Dubai/Kuwait/SA
3. SAVE $$$, reduce expenses to absolutely bare minimum
4. Pay debt off
5. Do NOT marry someone who is poor or indebted like you, in fact just stay single
6. Retire at 45-50, second career something you are interested in
7. Win.

 

[pablo1992]

Sigh....the only thing posts like this do is discourage actual GOOD APPLICANTS from applying, further contributing to the downward spiral of the profession.

The crap applicants will still pile in as usual and create the excess supply/downward income pressure they always have...

There are plenty of jobs at the VA for example.

1. Get a VA job or other government pathology job like for a prison
2. If no. 1 isnt a go, get a job in the Middle East like Dubai/Kuwait/SA
3. SAVE $$$, reduce expenses to absolutely bare minimum
4. Pay debt off
5. Do NOT marry someone who is poor or indebted like you, in fact just stay single
6. Retire at 45-50, second career something you are interested in
7. Win.

 

[pablo1992]

YOU JUST MADE MY POINT..SOMEONE WHO DID INTERNAL MEDICINE HELL EVEN FAMILY MEDICINE DOESN'T HAVE TO DO ALL OF THAT JUST TO LEAD A NORMAL LIFE
I MEAN COME ON MOVE TO A WHOLE DIFFERENT COUNTRY

 

[pablo1992]

Thrombus is that you????

LOL NO I AM NOT THROMBUS
BUT I HAVE SEEN THROMBUS COMMENTS AND HE IS JUST WHAT PEOPLE NEED BEFORE MAKING THE SAME MISTAKE

 

[Pathbusiness]

YOU JUST MADE MY POINT..SOMEONE WHO DID INTERNAL MEDICINE HELL EVEN FAMILY MEDICINE DOESN'T HAVE TO DO ALL OF THAT JUST TO LEAD A NORMAL LIFE
I MEAN COME ON MOVE TO A WHOLE DIFFERENT COUNTRY

If you can walk straight, there are plenty of jobs.
Job Search

 

[octopusprime]

Sigh....the only thing posts like this do is discourage actual GOOD APPLICANTS from applying, further contributing to the downward spiral of the profession.

The crap applicants will still pile in as usual and create the excess supply/downward income pressure they always have...

There are plenty of jobs at the VA for example.

1. Get a VA job or other government pathology job like for a prison
2. If no. 1 isnt a go, get a job in the Middle East like Dubai/Kuwait/SA
3. SAVE $$$, reduce expenses to absolutely bare minimum
4. Pay debt off
5. Do NOT marry someone who is poor or indebted like you, in fact just stay single
6. Retire at 45-50, second career something you are interested in
7. Win.

lol

 

[pianoguy05]

I have seen good candidates/pathologists - fellows I would trust to read my biopsy - with careers ruined because they pissed off the wrong person in residency. I've also seen residents/fellows who I wouldn't trust to mop up the floor after an autopsy who have landed great, lucrative jobs because they played the system and sucked up to the right people. Overall, my impression isn't so much whether you have a personality disorder; its whether you can convince Fletcher (or Montgomery or Weiss or whoever it is that we care about these days) to call someone for you. I can't believe some of the people who have gotten jobs and some of those who didn't....just a strange system overall.

There are jobs out there but to land good jobs it's by word of mouth so make as many friends as possible and work hard in residency to be the best you can be.

Everyone from my residency has a job although most have had to do 1-2 fellowships.

If you are geographically restricted you may have trouble landing a job in a particular area. I have a few friends working for Quest and they are happy. They don't complain about pathology at all compared to the people on this board. A lot on life has to do with who you know aka connections.

Don't be the resident in your program with the personality disorder or have trouble getting along with other people. You will have issues anywhere you go in life.

Make sure your path skills are as good as you can be to put yourself in a good position.

 

[octopusprime]

There are jobs out there but to land good jobs it's by word of mouth so make as many friends as possible and work hard in residency to be the best you can be.

Everyone from my residency has a job although most have had to do 1-2 fellowships.

If you are geographically restricted you may have trouble landing a job in a particular area. I have a few friends working for Quest and they are happy. They don't complain about pathology at all compared to the people on this board. A lot on life has to do with who you know aka connections.

Don't be the resident in your program with the personality disorder or have trouble getting along with other people. You will have issues anywhere you go in life.

Make sure your path skills are as good as you can be to put yourself in a good position.

Ok I've calmed down a little, and while I agree there are certainly plenty of people happily working for Quest et al circles of hell, they are happy because they're ignorant, passive, geographically restricted or just ambivalent about their career.

If you offered all those happy campers at Quest twice what they're getting paid now and an extra few weeks of vaca, would any turn it down?

We've heard the bell ring so many times we're now used to what is placed in front of our face as "the norm."

 

[octopusprime]

You can be ignorant, passive, geographically restricted and ambivalent about your career as a radiologist, dermatologist, ENT, GI, urology, etc, and still fare better than the majority of pathologist trainees...plenty of bad gigs in all those fields, obviously, but the floor is much higher and opportunity much less affected by national corporate interests.

 

[pathslides]

LOL NO I AM NOT THROMBUS
BUT I HAVE SEEN THROMBUS COMMENTS AND HE IS JUST WHAT PEOPLE NEED BEFORE MAKING THE SAME MISTAKE

Hey dude, press that button that says Caps lock.

 

[pathslides]

IF you are in MED SCHOOL and applying to a PATHOLOGY RESIDENCY PROGRAM DO NOT DO IT!!!!!!!
I REPEAT DO NOT DO IT!!!!!!!!!!! THERE IS NO JOBS OUT HERE
DO NOT SAY YOU WERE NOT WARNED!!!!!!!!

Same crap over and over. Good jobs are out there. But good jobs don’t usually hire the freakshows. I take it you don’t have a good job.

 

[Thrombus]

Thrombus is that you????

Can’t say it’s me!! Also can’t say I don’t use pen names routinely on social media but thrombus is enough of a pen name for me.

Too bad this fellow didn’t listen to me 2,4,6,8,10 years ago!!

 

[MedicineN'Jazz]

Considering myself warned
Was actually pretty interested in forensic pathology, but will definitely be researching alternative options now. Thanks guys, and sorry for everything that you guys are going through!

 

[MetroPath]

Considering myself warned
Was actually pretty interested in forensic pathology, but will definitely be researching alternative options now. Thanks guys, and sorry for everything that you guys are going through!

Dude job market is good for forensics if you truly want to do it for the rest of your life. Good pay. Do autopsies in morning and chill after that looking at slides for the rest of the day.

 

[octopusprime]

. Good pay...".

Caveat of the year.
...but then again it's forensics."
...for the hours worked."
etc

 

[PathologyOptimist]

IF you are in MED SCHOOL and applying to a PATHOLOGY RESIDENCY PROGRAM DO NOT DO IT!!!!!!!
I REPEAT DO NOT DO IT!!!!!!!!!!! THERE IS NO JOBS OUT HERE
DO NOT SAY YOU WERE NOT WARNED!!!!!!!!

Dear Medical Students,

If you are considering pathology, I recommend that instead of looking at negative posts on the internet speak to a pathologist in your community. You will find that there is significantly less hysteria out there than is vastly overrepresented on this board. I am currently wrapping up training with a one-year surgical pathology fellowship and have identified several job opportunities in a rather narrow geographic area of my choosing (this includes private practice jobs). I have also made some important personal connections along the way, knowing that I wanted to practice in a certain area. If you are not geographically restricted, you should have no problem finding a job if you are competent, personable, and a diligent worker.

I know zero people who I have trained with who have had any difficulties obtaining a fulfilling job, as long as they were the above three things that I've listed. I've known two who have had some difficulty, but they were ranked at the bottom of their respective classes. They both still found jobs.

 

[Doormat]

Sorry but thrombus is spot on. I agree that it's great advice to speak to an experienced pathologist in the community -- like me. The NRMP data over the last few years speaks for itself. Pathology is the least competitive specialty in the nation and for good reason. Fellows finding jobs is not a metric that indicates this field is healthy. The recent CAP archives article by Gratzinger et al is also not evidence of a decent job market. Most pathology jobs stink. You work at Aurora, LabCorp, Miraca (Inform), Quest (Ameripath), a slide mill, or a "revenue sharing model" company? Your job is no different than a lab tech. You are a piggy bank and a commodity for other physicians or corporate shareholders. I feel bad that I selected the least competitive field in all of medicine. As an MD PhD who graduated who graduated from the most competitive medical school in the nation, I should have leveraged that and gone into derm or optho. I regularly get inquiries from prospective applicants and I usually ignore them, even inquiries from UCSF and Vanderbilt grads. When I do decide to return their calls or E-mails I start with: " You know about the current job market in the pathology...."

 

[octopusprime]

If you are not geographically restricted, you should have no problem finding a job...

I know zero people who I have trained with who have had any difficulties obtaining a fulfilling job, as long as they were the above three things that I've listed.

I'm sorry those are just glaringly huge caveats, bud. The POINT is not that people don't find jobs, or that there are pathologists in line at the soup kitchen or doing locums work in Kazakhstan...people do find jobs, but they also have to settle for a lot less than they would in essentially every other specialty, and have to make more concessions than they would have to in essentially every other specialty.

The posts on this forum are usually negative, yes, but they're also more "real" and in-the-trenches than the opinions you'll find among academicians.

Why don't you report back after you take the red pill.

 

[Dro133]

I'm sorry those are just glaringly huge caveats, bud. The POINT is not that people don't find jobs, or that there are pathologists in line at the soup kitchen or doing locums work in Kazakhstan...people do find jobs, but they also have to settle for a lot less than they would in essentially every other specialty, and have to make more concessions than they would have to in essentially every other specialty.

The posts on this forum are usually negative, yes, but they're also more "real" and in-the-trenches than the opinions you'll find among academicians.

Why don't you report back after you take the red pill.

I ask this as an admittedly naive medical student, out of pure curiosity and to throw a "devil's advocate" position out there (and I hope that I don't get flamed for this); is it possible that people in other fields don't have to make concessions because the demand is simply so high that anyone who is board certified and has a pulse will find a job? Whereas in pathology, the demand isn't as high, so only truly solid candidates are the "lucky" ones who get the jobs? I mean in no other field outside of medicine are you guaranteed a job simply for having a degree; someone with a degree in computer science isn't going to be hired by a good company simply because they have a degree, whereas if you are board certified in IM, FM, psych, etc., you're pretty much guaranteed a job. I guess the reason I ask this is because, as a medical student, I won't be turned off of pathology if it's the case that solid candidates can land a good job. But if truly solid candidates are struggling to find work, even after a fellowship or two, then I will think hard about looking elsewhere.

 

[LADoc00]

I ask this as an admittedly naive medical student, out of pure curiosity and to throw a "devil's advocate" position out there (and I hope that I don't get flamed for this); is it possible that people in other fields don't have to make concessions because the demand is simply so high that anyone who is board certified and has a pulse will find a job? Whereas in pathology, the demand isn't as high, so only truly solid candidates are the "lucky" ones who get the jobs? I mean in no other field outside of medicine are you guaranteed a job simply for having a degree; someone with a degree in computer science isn't going to be hired by a good company simply because they have a degree, whereas if you are board certified in IM, FM, psych, etc., you're pretty much guaranteed a job. I guess the reason I ask this is because, as a medical student, I won't be turned off of pathology if it's the case that solid candidates can land a good job. But if truly solid candidates are struggling to find work, even after a fellowship or two, then I will think hard about looking elsewhere.

A good chunk of the issues specific to Pathology stem from the extremely unique nature of how we are paid. Given one pathologist holds the contract and is named the de facto medical director often with a number of junior or lateral colleagues under their medical directorship, this creates the "Tyrannical Patriarch" model for the profession. And I dont mean that in the social justice warrior feminist sense, but the mythological one (think Cronus).

I have sat in long contemplation about how to resolve the Cronus conflict paradox and the only solution that is currently working is a pseudo-Marxist business model where all the staff are equal partners and make equal pay. The Marxist solution creates further problems of its own related to massively differential work productivity of different individuals known as the Pareto principle (20% of the people end up doing 80% of the work). Marxist groups have been on occasion incredibly successful for a short time but eventually collapse due to the Pareto principle.

At this time, I dont have a very good business model where pathologists own the business themselves that addresses the above issues. This then leads to a now more common scenario where the Cronus role is absconded by a "business tyrant" outside profession either a business executive for a small group or a simple corporation like Quest.

The seismic shift in Pathology and what has been a 2 decade long collapse of the previous Marxist paradigm is due to one hard fact that is absolutely not limited to pathology as a field, but is being more acutely felt by us for a number of reasons. This paradigm shift is due predominantly from the massive inflow of women into the field. Before I get an onslaught of posters calling me a misogynist, I fully understand that women have a very different and highly important set of priorities different than my own and in many important ways almost diametrically opposed. We are the "canary in the coal mine" as this massive demographic shift occurs and therefore do not see ANY specialty in healthcare that will be immune given enough time.

 

[Dro133]

This paradigm shift is due predominantly from the massive inflow of women into the field. Before I get an onslaught of posters calling me a misogynist, I fully understand that women have a very different and highly important set of priorities different than my own and in many important ways almost diametrically opposed. We are the "canary in the coal mine" as this massive demographic shift occurs and therefore do not see ANY specialty in healthcare that will be immune given enough time.

I was with you up until here, but this is where you lost me...

 

[LADoc00]

I was with you up until here, but this is where you lost me...

Basically groups set up historically by males as Marxist models of income and ownership distribution always teetered on knife edge since the 40s. They survived by my estimates on a common ethos that is now anathema to current generation of predominantly female staff. Im not making judgement either way, the old school ethos had considerable problems due its excessively reliance on self sacrifice for the group. BUT, this gender conflict IS the explanation for a huge majority of transition of pathologists from self employed 1099 to W-2 wage earners. Any serious look at the business arc of pathology would draw the same conclusion. That is not at all to say that increased women in path created the employed paradigm as that was always there since pre-WW2 healthcare, but it definitely greased the wheels of the momentum of the health economics shift since the 80s. And greased it in a way I dont think anything else could have really.

 

[PathologyOptimist]

I'm sorry those are just glaringly huge caveats, bud. The POINT is not that people don't find jobs, or that there are pathologists in line at the soup kitchen or doing locums work in Kazakhstan...people do find jobs, but they also have to settle for a lot less than they would in essentially every other specialty, and have to make more concessions than they would have to in essentially every other specialty.

The posts on this forum are usually negative, yes, but they're also more "real" and in-the-trenches than the opinions you'll find among academicians.

Why don't you report back after you take the red pill.

Lolz. I'm from a medical family (anesthesia, surgery, pathology, dentistry). Most of the above is complete bogus. Pathologists, many times I believe owing to the fact that they tend to be introverted and simply don't seem to know that many people from other specialties, tend to think that the problems they encounter only apply to them. Pathology is not the only job market that is saturated; but yes, by its very nature it is always going to be a niche specialty, making it more difficult to choose a location. This is especially true in the new medical climate where solo/small practices are dying dinosaurs. You can't just go back to your hometown and open up a laboratory.

However, to say that we have to settle for less or make more concessions is just silly. We make about middle of the pack money with some of the best and most flexible work hours. Surgeons I know have had to pick up and move their families because the job market was saturated in their area. Anesthesiologists I know had to rely on connections to get jobs, not simple postings on a website. Sure, you can be an internist or family doc or ER doc anywhere, but who in pathology wants to trade our life for theirs? Surgeons make bank, but their third wife spends it all.

Medicine is a rewarding pain in the ass.

 

[LADoc00]

However, to say that we have to settle for less or make more concessions is just silly. We make about middle of the pack money with some of the best and most flexible work hours. Surgeons I know have had to pick up and move their families because the job market was saturated in their area. Anesthesiologists I know had to rely on connections to get jobs, not simple postings on a website. Sure, you can be an internist or family doc or ER doc anywhere, but who in pathology wants to trade our life for theirs? Surgeons make bank, but their third wife spends it all.

This is essentially dead on. The problem however is one of expectation management. From roughly 1945 with Truman's declaration of healthcare for all or perhaps Johnson's enactment of Medicare in the 60s up until to around 1988, Pathology and Lab Medicine (perhaps more CP really), was pure INSANITY. The pay for the high end was stratospheric and utterly unsustainable. Some groups had actual lifestyle cross-over with Jordan Belfort-types and that is not an exaggeration. Fast forward to 2018+, and most pathologists will never own anything in terms of a practice. But we arent the only ones suffering this hangover, I feel things are even more grim in Oncology. If you could look back at the AOL message boards in 1991-95, you would see the rising panic in pathology groups. Things came down and did so very very fast if you were fortunate enough to own or have interest shares in a pathology gig during the 80s. If you were employed, not much shifted. I dont think any single medical specialty is anywhere near the Halcyon Days of Pathology (say 1965-1988 for simplicity) today and will never be. That is a very hard pill to swallow for many people who are facing vastly increased competition for college slots, medical school slots, top residency programs and private group gigs.

 

[PathologyOptimist]

This is essentially dead on. The problem however is one of expectation management. From roughly 1945 with Truman's declaration of healthcare for all or perhaps Johnson's enactment of Medicare in the 60s up until to around 1988, Pathology and Lab Medicine (perhaps more CP really), was pure INSANITY. The pay for the high end was stratospheric and utterly unsustainable. Some groups had actual lifestyle cross-over with Jordan Belfort-types and that is not an exaggeration. Fast forward to 2018+, and most pathologists will never own anything in terms of a practice. But we arent the only ones suffering this hangover, I feel things are even more grim in Oncology. If you could look back at the AOL message boards in 1991-95, you would see the rising panic in pathology groups. Things came down and did so very very fast if you were fortunate enough to own or have interest shares in a pathology gig during the 80s. If you were employed, not much shifted. I dont think any single medical specialty is anywhere near the Halcyon Days of Pathology (say 1965-1988 for simplicity) today and will never be. That is a very hard pill to swallow for many people who are facing vastly increased competition for college slots, medical school slots, top residency programs and private group gigs.

Definitely. I know some pathologists in my small hometown who were making up to $700K per year in the 90s (and even early 2000s). Crazy. I don't know any who were coked up and doing ludes Belfort-style, though.

 

[octopusprime]

Lolz. I'm from a medical family (anesthesia, surgery, pathology, dentistry). Most of the above is complete bogus. Pathologists, many times I believe owing to the fact that they tend to be introverted and simply don't seem to know that many people from other specialties, tend to think that the problems they encounter only apply to them. Pathology is not the only job market that is saturated; but yes, by its very nature it is always going to be a niche specialty, making it more difficult to choose a location. This is especially true in the new medical climate where solo/small practices are dying dinosaurs. You can't just go back to your hometown and open up a laboratory.

However, to say that we have to settle for less or make more concessions is just silly. We make about middle of the pack money with some of the best and most flexible work hours. Surgeons I know have had to pick up and move their families because the job market was saturated in their area. Anesthesiologists I know had to rely on connections to get jobs, not simple postings on a website. Sure, you can be an internist or family doc or ER doc anywhere, but who in pathology wants to trade our life for theirs? Surgeons make bank, but their third wife spends it all.

Medicine is a rewarding pain in the ass.

Congratulations? I guess that means your perception of pathology as a resident coming from a medical family is more accurate? I have internists, oncologists, cardiologists and PAs in my family... Who cares.

I'm not saying pathology is the only field facing challenges...every field faces a similar list of problems to some degree, but if your ultimate conclusion is that a.) 200k is a fantastic salary, so stop complaining and put all your chips in on pathology, and b.) the work hours/call of path make up for any negatives, you're naive.

Or maybe your lovely medically-inclined family paid for your undergrad and medical education, or perhaps you grew up the child of a physician and never had to fight tooth and nail for what you got, so perhaps your perception of how far 200k takes you is skewed, but 200k for the avg medical grad is low--expected in some fields, but the fields in which it's expected are usually the ones with recruiters knocking on your door. BOTTOM LINE--you're bringing in multiples of that 200k, assuming avg volume/caseload, and it's going into different coffers. All academic physicians face such pay disparity, but you'll be hard pressed to find any IM subspecialist, radiologist or anesthesiologist making 200 unless they're 1/2 time or an idiot...and they're not working 90 hours with 4 weeks vaca.

I'm not bitter; I'm well above the 90 percentile in income for path and have more vaca than I usually know what to do with, but consequently this vantage point makes most jobs look horrible, whether it's the pay, vaca or dictatorial/corporate practice structure. When you know your value from a revenue-generation standpoint, it’s hard to encourage people to enter a field for which the norm is being taken advantage of to such a large degree.

 

[Pathbusiness]

Let me simplify. We don't have any leverage over our clients, patients, and our own business model. In no time one becomes everyone's bitch instead of a pit bull.

 

[LADoc00]

Definitely. I know some pathologists in my small hometown who were making up to $700K per year in the 90s (and even early 2000s). Crazy. I don't know any who were coked up and doing ludes Belfort-style, though.

I met a gentleman from a midwest state I will not name who claims he made roughly 10,000,000 per year for a decade+. That was the earliest recollection of meeting a pathologist in my life before I began college. He had a 2000+ acre ranch and had just handed over a check for 4+ million to a PAC my father was associated with and so I definitely believed his story...700K is chump change to the real deal ballers from that era.

 

[deleted314957]

I have seen good candidates/pathologists - fellows I would trust to read my biopsy - with careers ruined because they pissed off the wrong person in residency. I've also seen residents/fellows who I wouldn't trust to mop up the floor after an autopsy who have landed great, lucrative jobs because they played the system and sucked up to the right people. Overall, my impression isn't so much whether you have a personality disorder; its whether you can convince Fletcher (or Montgomery or Weiss or whoever it is that we care about these days) to call someone for you. I can't believe some of the people who have gotten jobs and some of those who didn't....just a strange system overall.

News flash—this is how the WHOLE F****** WORLD works.

 

[dukeresident]

Sigh....the only thing posts like this do is discourage actual GOOD APPLICANTS from applying, further contributing to the downward spiral of the profession.

The crap applicants will still pile in as usual and create the excess supply/downward income pressure they always have...

There are plenty of jobs at the VA for example.

1. Get a VA job or other government pathology job like for a prison
2. If no. 1 isnt a go, get a job in the Middle East like Dubai/Kuwait/SA
3. SAVE $$$, reduce expenses to absolutely bare minimum
4. Pay debt off
5. Do NOT marry someone who is poor or indebted like you, in fact just stay single
6. Retire at 45-50, second career something you are interested in
7. Win.

Sounds like a nightmare.

 

[MSTP18]

I must be surrounded by only the absolute best and brightest people in the nation because almost every pathology resident I know is getting the fellowship they want and almost every fellow is getting the job they want.

These threads remind me of how the MS4s at my school who talked about how bad/twisted med school and residency applications are seem to very frequently be the one who failed step 1/clerkships and/or had behavioral/professionalism citations. According to them it's definitely indicative of "flaws in the system" and not at all them.

 

[icpshootyz]

and almost every fellow is getting the job they want.

While I think there is some truth to your post, I find it hard to believe every fellow is getting the exact job they want exactly where they want. Path is simply too small a field to allow people to go exactly where they want for exactly the type of job they want. We're certainly not IM or Emergency where we could go to any city/town in the entire country and be fought over as a potential hire.

 

[gbwillner]

The commoditization of medical practice is not specific or even centered around pathology. This is happening in most specialties as larger groups, companies, and insurers have figured out how to scale their business and see profits in owning and operating practices.

While there is a large discrepancy in pay amongst all specialties, path is in the middle of the pack. The largest discrepancy is between being an employee or business owner.

 

[terriermed]

The market might not be good compared to some other fields, but its a small field so of course it is going to be geographically restricting just by virtue of the numbers needed. Better to learn that going in than coming out. That being said, I am applying for jobs now, only in the geographic region of my choosing, and have started to turn down interview requests because I've had too many, and now starting to turn down job offers. Go to a good residency/fellowship with some bigger name people who will eventually make calls for you, work hard and try not to piss them off too much. But more importantly, when you go to interview, act like an actual affable human being. Look them in the eye and shake their hand firmly. Be able to keep interesting conversations going over the 3 hour dinner they take you to. Make them laugh a little if you have to give a talk during the interview. These are things that most people on the street who aren't doctors can do, but very few pathologists seem capable of. If you are likable and have a good pedigree you will dominate the competition in pathology.

 

[Alteran]

If you are likable and have a good pedigree you will dominate the competition in pathology.

It's as surprisingly easy as it is scary just how true this is.

 

[Pathbusiness]

I look for a pleasant personality, good sense of humor, reliability and whether you are teachable.

 

[yaah]

Yeah, so if all of you great candidates are struggling to find good jobs, you all have been missing the boat for the last 2 years. We have hired 4 in the last 2 years. We are a great group in a decently sized area with a very desirable work life balance and practice environment. We advertised fairly far and wide to see how it would go. Sure, we got a lot of unqualified candidates, but we got EXTREMELY FEW really good candidates. Several were eliminated during a simple phone interview because of very obvious personality issues.

In the 15 (yes, fifteen) years I have been on these forums, I have begun to realize that a fairly high percentage of the people on here whining and gnashing their teeth about jobs are probably the same people that spend their entire phone interview name dropping and singing their own praises and saying stuff like "My only weakness is that I'm too good and that intimidates people" or "I only want to work 20 weeks a year" or something like that. A lot of the others are people in current jobs who are unhappy with their own job. Yes, there are a lot of subpar path jobs out there. That part sucks. But clearly these crappy jobs are not being filled with the great candidates that don't apply for our positions.

There have been stretches where the job market was a LOT worse than it is now. Specifically, I remember the period from about 5-10 years ago. Now, it's vastly different. The good candidates we have interviewed ALL have multiple job offers unless we are interviewing them so early that they haven't had a chance to interview anywhere else yet. I do not know where all these people are finding or getting jobs. It can be kind of a crapshoot - it can be tough to find the job you want in the exact place you want - that will often depend on timing and matching a specific skill set.

If you're having trouble finding a job at all, it's probably not because there aren't any jobs avaiable. It's probably because 1) you are too stringent with your criteria about what is acceptable; 2) You turn everyone you interview with off with either arrogance or an extremely demure personality; 3) You have bad references; 4) Your training background is scattershot, like you did a neuropath and a renal path fellowship and you claim to wait a job doing primarily cytopath, and you haven't practiced in the last 2 years, or 5) You have visa issues.

Comparing the pathology job market to something like FM is about as helpful as comparing the pathology job market to a field like engineering or sports marketing. It is what it is. It varies by region and by year.

 

[chooks]

Yeah, so if all of you great candidates are struggling to find good jobs, you all have been missing the boat for the last 2 years. We have hired 4 in the last 2 years. We are a great group in a decently sized area with a very desirable work life balance and practice environment. We advertised fairly far and wide to see how it would go. Sure, we got a lot of unqualified candidates, but we got EXTREMELY FEW really good candidates. Several were eliminated during a simple phone interview because of very obvious personality issues.

The chaff definitely out numbers the wheat. We've hired a number of pathologists over the past year and if we did not already know them personally, it took a while to wade through a sea of mediocrity to find the few that were good.

 

[Pathbusiness]

If you can manage to graduate decently from a residency program, do one fellowship, and are not stupid or intolerable, there are plenty of jobs everywhere.

 

[BU Pathology]

There was a recent twitter discussion called path 2 path. One commentator mentioned that he was having trouble recruiting good candidates. There are good jobs for good candidates.