Yale aged physician policy

[nimbus]

Our medical staff just implemented a similar policy. A couple of our surgeons were complaining about it. My group has a mandatory retirement age.

EEOC Sues Yale New Haven Hospital for Age and Disability Discrimination

Yale New Haven Hospital, the teaching hospital of the Yale School of Medicine, violated federal law by adopting and implementing a discriminatory "Late Career Practitioner Policy," the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) charged in a lawsuit filed today.

www.eeoc.gov

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[marr65]

I like it! What is the mandatory retirement age at your group, OP?

 

[Drwine]

Such "woke" behavior by EEOC that fails common sense. People age differently and mandatory retirement not in best interest. When our hospital started testing people at 70, one of our most respected orthopedic surgeons failed. Not long after his forced retirement signs of Alzheimer's disease became very obvious and his decline had been rapid. The alternative of testing everyone would be like having police "stop and frisk" in low crime areas.

 

[nimbus]

I like it! What is the mandatory retirement age at your group, OP?

70. A friend of mine hiked the Grand Canyon rim to rim on his 70th birthday, retired from my group, then worked at the university for a couple years before retiring.

 

[BLADEMDA]

70 seems reasonable to me for "full time" work requirements. After 70, I don't have an issue with wanting evidence one's skills haven't deteriorated greatly.
Yes, I know many excellent Physicians working until age 75 and doing a great job. But, I have met even more showing signs of deterioration (mentally) after age 65 with a noticeable decline post age 70.


Hospital Unlawfully Subjected Only Physicians Over 70 to Neuropsychological and Eye Exams, Federal Agency Charges

 

[BLADEMDA]

70 seems reasonable to me for "full time" work requirements. After 70, I don't have an issue with wanting evidence one's skills haven't deteriorated greatly.
Yes, I know many excellent Physicians working until age 75 and doing a great job. But, I have met even more showing signs of deterioration (mentally) after age 65 with a noticeable decline post age 70.

On this one area Yale got it right but will likely lose in Court.


Hospital Unlawfully Subjected Only Physicians Over 70 to Neuropsychological and Eye Exams, Federal Agency Charges

 

[ChiDO]

Pp ortho group. You have to sell all your shares and partnership at 67. Can work till 70 as an employed Dr for the last three years. 70 is forced retirement.

I think everyone thus far has retired <65

 

[aneftp]

70 seems reasonable to me for "full time" work requirements. After 70, I don't have an issue with wanting evidence one's skills haven't deteriorated greatly.
Yes, I know many excellent Physicians working until age 75 and doing a great job. But, I have met even more showing signs of deterioration (mentally) after age 65 with a noticeable decline post age 70.


Hospital Unlawfully Subjected Only Physicians Over 70 to Neuropsychological and Eye Exams, Federal Agency Charges

Lives are on the line. Age 70 is appropriate. Heck this one dude was age 66/67 and was let go at my old hospital cause he’s a walking ASA 4 anesthesiologist himself, cabg, dm, pvd, ceo surgery huffing And puffing Overweight. Slow, cognitive thinking slow. He’s a “nice” guy. But when dudes talk to me. I can tell after a while he’s not all up there.

but we have to do solo cases 15-20% daytime often and solo cases 100% of the time after 5-7pm and 100% on weekends at one of the hospitals. He ran into quit a few airway problems even in the daytime. It got to be a clinical issue. He was likely 5 years past his due date. So he got let go after 6 months. It’s not like the group didn’t give him a chance. 6 months is long enough to prove yourself.

It is tricky because everyone health and cognitive status is different as we age. I’m “younger” in my 40s and feel super sharp. But I don’t have the bullet proof memory I had when I was in my 20s and 30s. I’m probably still operating at 99% 99% of the time . But get back to me in 10-15 years. I may be 95% of of my peak but only 80% of the time. I may not have my A game 99% of the time anymore.

And can fall off a cliff once I’m in my 60s and definitely in my 70s. Who knows.

 

[deleted126335]

Lives are on the line. Age 70 is appropriate. Heck this one dude was age 66/67 and was let go at my old hospital cause he’s a walking ASA 4 anesthesiologist himself, cabg, dm, pvd, ceo surgery huffing And puffing Overweight. Slow, cognitive thinking slow. He’s a “nice” guy. But when dudes talk to me. I can tell after a while he’s not all up there.

but we have to do solo cases 15-20% daytime often and solo cases 100% of the time after 5-7pm and 100% on weekends at one of the hospitals. He ran into quit a few airway problems even in the daytime. It got to be a clinical issue. He was likely 5 years past his due date. So he got let go after 6 months. It’s not like the group didn’t give him a chance. 6 months is long enough to prove yourself.

It is tricky because everyone health and cognitive status is different as we age. I’m “younger” in my 40s and feel super sharp. But I don’t have the bullet proof memory I had when I was in my 20s and 30s. I’m probably still operating at 99% 99% of the time . But get back to me in 10-15 years. I may be 95% of of my peak but only 80% of the time. I may not have my A game 99% of the time anymore.

And can fall off a cliff once I’m in my 60s and definitely in my 70s. Who knows.

All true. But the subjective nature of these evaluations and possible secondary agendas makes this a very delicate subject.


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[Mman]

our state medical board requires neurocognitive testing at a certain age to maintain your medical license. I'm not close enough in age to it to have bothered figuring it out when it is but I believe it is somewhere around 70

 

[okayplayer]

I cannot imagine fighting for my right to practice anesthesia at age 70.

But then again, maybe that’s because I save 40% of my salary for retirement. I have big plans for those years.

 

[nimbus]

It’s funny that 70 is considered by many to be too old to practice medicine or fly a commercial airliner but apparently not too old to be POTUS or sit on SCOTUS. I’d love to see the neurocognitive testing results for our top candidates. I imagine Buttigieg would come out on top and several of the others would fair poorly.


I think Yale and all other medical staffs will eventually have to test everyone.

 

[nimbus]

http://cpe.memberlodge.org/Resources/Documents/Ireland%202014/12%20PACE%20Aging%20Physician%20Assessment%20-%20Bazzo.pdf

 

[IlDestriero]

When I get bored I’ll blow the test and get my own occ disability for a few years to close it out. Sounds like a plan.

 

[Mman]

When I get bored I’ll blow the test and get my own occ disability for a few years to close it out. Sounds like a plan.

going to be tough to purchase a policy at age 65 so you will definitely need a long time of paying into it and then even with those many of them won't pay past age 70 anyways

 

[DrZzZz]

It’s funny that 70 is considered by many to be too old to practice medicine or fly a commercial airliner but apparently not too old to be POTUS or sit on SCOTUS. I’d love to see the neurocognitive testing results for our top candidates. I imagine Buttigieg would come out on top and several of the others would fair poorly.


I think Yale and all other medical staffs will eventually have to test everyone.

I recall winning some competition when I was roughly 15 years old. As part of it, I got to meet with a longtime senator. He was in his early 70s when I met him, has since passed away. I remember being blown away by how senile he was at that point, and he served as senator for another 15ish years after that meeting! Scary to think back on that

 

[ProwlerturnGas]

Please take me out and shoot me if I’m practicing at age 70.

 

[Guillemot]

OK BOOMER

 

[abolt18]

Got a CT anesthesia attending who is 83. He's VERY cognitively intact, though clearly somewhat forgetful at times. Still publishing, probably the most well read and up to date on literature of any of our faculty. Works as an editor for more than one journal. Obviously not taking call, but is in the OR several days a week (4-5). I don't know if they'll ever force him out.

 

[vector2]

Got a CT anesthesia attending who is 83. He's VERY cognitively intact, though clearly somewhat forgetful at times. Still publishing, probably the most well read and up to date on literature of any of our faculty. Works as an editor for more than one journal. Obviously not taking call, but is in the OR several days a week (4-5). I don't know if they'll ever force him out.

The thing about being a really sharp 83 is that they can do stuff like perfectly recalling the role of NO synthase in vasoplegia while simultaneously forgetting that the guidewire never made it back on to the tray after the central line went in.

 

[dchz]

The thing about being a really sharp 83 is that they can do stuff like perfectly recalling the role of NO synthase in vasoplegia while simultaneously forgetting that the guidewire never made it back on to the tray after the central line went in.

To be fair, 99% of people who do this are way younger than 70.

It’s funny that 70 is considered by many to be too old to practice medicine or fly a commercial airliner but apparently not too old to be POTUS or sit on SCOTUS. I’d love to see the neurocognitive testing results for our top candidates. I imagine Buttigieg would come out on top and several of the others would fair poorly.

Forgetting someone, are we?

 

[pgg]

I get chest pain thinking about going to work at age 60, let alone 70. But to each his own.

 

[pgg]

Forgetting someone, are we?

He dropped out last week, didn't he?

All these old guys running ...

Bernie's going to win Nevada, assuming the DNC doesn't accidentally-on-purpose misplace the batteries for the vote tabulating iPads.

 

[dannyboy1]

We are anesthesiologists. The only neurocognitive skill we need is the ability to sign our name on the CRNA’s chart

 

[BLADEMDA]

The thing is as most of us age we KNOW that some of our skills begin to deteriorate. We use "Google" more often as a refresher but the sheer volume of cases over a career can make up for a lot of deficiency... for a time. By age 65 most, I stress most, start showing cracks in the foundation. By 70 the cracks are obvious and even large amounts of caulking can't hide them any longer. Sure, there are some superstars out there who can climb Mt. Everest at age 70 but for every 1 of those there are a dozen more who can barely climb the stairs at work. Most begin to have some health issues and cognitive decline.

I will go so far as to state that at age 70 the ASA should recommend yearly cognitive and physical exams for all Anesthesiologists. Since it is a "recommendation" it wouldn't be legally binding but would put any 70 year old on precarious legal footing if he/she ignored the recommendation.

There comes a time when we all must pass the baton to the next generation. For both our patients and our profession that time is age 70 (if not even age 67) IMHO. For the fortunate few who wish to practice or have no choice but to keep working the yearly testing is a necessary evil to protect everyone.

 

[flightnurse2MD]

I know a doctor at my gym who is 72 and still lifts 300+ on bench. Does that count? lol

 

[deleted162650]

I know a doctor at my gym who is 72 and still lifts 300+ on bench. Does that count? lol

Only if he’s an orthodod.

 

[Drwine]

Disagree completely. We already test everyone including little kids and old people in wheelchairs for weapons at airports thanks to the TSA. If we are so pc that we check everyone for weapons, then we can be pc and do neuropsych testing on all docs regardless of age.

Just because the TSA took a politically correct approach to make flying unpleasant for everyone doesn't make it the right way. If you want to see airline security done right go to Israel. How many 35 year olds are going to be found with cognitive disfunction versus 70 year olds?

 

[aneftp]

I like it! What is the mandatory retirement age at your group, OP?

Got a CT anesthesia attending who is 83. He's VERY cognitively intact, though clearly somewhat forgetful at times. Still publishing, probably the most well read and up to date on literature of any of our faculty. Works as an editor for more than one journal. Obviously not taking call, but is in the OR several days a week (4-5). I don't know if they'll ever force him out.

Is he working solo? Hard to imagine him doing solo anesthesia.

I knew a doc age 70 doing calls solo busy private even 48 hour beeper weekend solo. Sometimes cases to 12-2am Saturday’s. Turn around work 730am-7pm non stop semi elective Sunday cases.

But he was the doc i replaced 5 years ago. Very fit. Sharp. Played tennis. Active. But even said was at the end. He stayed on for another 2 years on/off filling in once in a while still took occasional beeper overnight. But by age 72 he was done done.

70 is weird cut off age. I don’t know why yale chose it. Too many variables. Lots of fit and active 70 year olds. Maybe If they made calls non mandatory after age 60 (10 years of service) or age 65 (5 years of service) it would be more appropriate

 

[abolt18]

Is he working solo? Hard to imagine him doing solo anesthesia.

I knew a doc age 70 doing calls solo busy private even 48 hour beeper weekend solo. Sometimes cases to 12-2am Saturday’s. Turn around work 730am-7pm non stop semi elective Sunday cases.

But he was the doc i replaced 5 years ago. Very fit. Sharp. Played tennis. Active. But even said was at the end. He stayed on for another 2 years on/off filling in once in a while still took occasional beeper overnight. But by age 72 he was done done.

70 is weird cut off age. I don’t know why yale chose it. Too many variables. Lots of fit and active 70 year olds. Maybe If they made calls non mandatory after age 60 (10 years of service) or age 65 (5 years of service) it would be more appropriate

No, it's all supervision of residents/crnas.

 

[vector2]

To be fair, 99% of people who do this are way younger than 70.

To be really fair, 99.9% of practicing anesthesiologists are way younger than 70.

 

[deleted59964]

by 58 I want a part time job pushing propofol and putting LMAs.
By 70 I wan to have spent the last 10 years travelling, hiking, and sleeping in.

but each to there own, and age alone shouldn't determine mandatory retirement

 

[Mman]

70 is weird cut off age. I don’t know why yale chose it. Too many variables. Lots of fit and active 70 year olds. Maybe If they made calls non mandatory after age 60 (10 years of service) or age 65 (5 years of service) it would be more appropriate

Probably because for the majority of the population by age 70 you are either slightly impaired or getting really close to it. The point is to require testing before it becomes a problem but not so early as to make everybody have to do it.

Let's be real, if you want to work well past the normal retirement age in a job that has life threatening potential to patients you should probably be required to show you are still up to the task. While I know several anesthesiologists that have worked past 70, the day they retired they admitted the last few years had been difficult. They wouldn't admit it while still working, but afterwards they fess up.

 

[10KHertz]

There is some background for this Yale policy. 70yo+ General surgeon was injuring patients and refused to cease surgical privileges.

Malpractice Insurance premiums should just increase like all other policies to phase out older physicians. Let the free market force these older physicians out. Seems harsh , but most reasonable high risk specialists would comply .

 

[Mad Jack]

Such "woke" behavior by EEOC that fails common sense. People age differently and mandatory retirement not in best interest. When our hospital started testing people at 70, one of our most respected orthopedic surgeons failed. Not long after his forced retirement signs of Alzheimer's disease became very obvious and his decline had been rapid. The alternative of testing everyone would be like having police "stop and frisk" in low crime areas.

The alternative would be blanket testing, which would be legal if approached correctly. Honestly I don't see what the opposition to this would be since age isn't the sole determinant of diminished physical and mental capabilities