Yale? Harvard? Etc....

[DarkChild]

i definately hear you Thewonderer - I'm not even in med school, but I've seen enough to know that it pretty much just boils down to numbers - at least at most of the top schools.
GPA, MCAT - nuff said.
it's an ugly game though

Originally posted by Thewonderer


I can understand what you are saying. I used to think like you. But I have turned into a huge, MASSIVE cynic after being in med school for a couple years. You will be surprised how many gunners with little or no EC's get into med schools nowadays, even @ the top schools that claim they look @ the "whole" applicants. To me, I am sick of the official propaganda. In the end, I feel that number rules, because for a tool with 3.9 and 38 from an Ivy-caliber school but little or no EC's, no problem. If Hopkins, Stanford or Baylor does not want you, Yale or Duke would be drooling over you (and if you are from Yale or Harvard undergrad, Columbia would be the one drooling).

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[LadyLuck]

So, in the end, is there any way to get into these schools with really high numbers, yet keep a "life" outside of school? It cracks me up when I read descriptions about medical schools and they talk about all of the recreational ammenities nearby to "get your mind off of your studies...". If I ever get lucky enough to get in I just don't see myself having much free time. This undergrad stuff is tough enough, and I know it will only get worse!

 

[Bonds756]

Originally posted by Thewonderer


I can understand what you are saying. I used to think like you. But I have turned into a huge, MASSIVE cynic after being in med school for a couple years. You will be surprised how many gunners with little or no EC's get into med schools nowadays, even @ the top schools that claim they look @ the "whole" applicants. And some of these people' personalities are so anti-social that I wondered why they "wanted" to become doctors in the first place.

To me, I am sick of the official med school propaganda. In the end, I feel that number rules, because for a tool with 3.9 and 38 from an Ivy-caliber school but little or no EC's, no problem. If Hopkins, Stanford or Baylor does not want you, Yale or Duke would be drooling over you (and if you are from Yale or Harvard undergrad, Columbia would be the one drooling).

Just my personal opinion

I would not have gotten into several of the schools I did if it boiled down to just MCAT scores. Penn could have filled my spot with a kid with a 38 (or a 43 for that matter), but they looked at me beyond one day and one test. The progaganda is, for the most part, true. If it wasn't, you could expect Harvard to have the highest MCAT and GPA averages, then Hopkins, then Wash U and Penn, etc. The rankings are not an exact match with student stats who attend those schools since each top school looks for that something else to separate all the people with 38+.

 

[smid]

Wow. There's a lot of testosterone on this thread. Just adding my 2 cents since everyone else has...

I was a little bit offended by whoever said "Why would you want to be a doctor after working on Wall Street?" I guess it probably came from some "gunner" (what does gunner mean, anyway? I have no clue but the word gets thrown around a lot, so I thought I'd try to use it in a sentence. )

anyway, I was pre-med in college at first, but so was everyone else at my school, so I changed to PhD program and then left for the business world and now back to where I started. I think unless you've experienced it, it's hard to understand. Making money is nice, but something is missing. With medicine, you have a lot of flexibility in your career path (teaching, research, business, etc.) It's very appealing for a lot of people to have a secure career which is both intellectually challenging and allows for some social impact. I don't know how to explain this, but there it is.

Now, can someone tell me what a "gunner" is? Is it just someone with high stats? What's the definition of "high stats" anyway? Does anyone here go to a state public school? It seems like everyone is from harvard or some other private school.

 

[dr kevin40]

this is really sad. its 4 am and i just came back from a night of good dancing and drinking and waht's the first thing i do? check the ghetto sdn boards. why? b/c i'm ******ed like that

gunner is i gess a term ppl be throwing around to describe anal premeds w/ high grades/scores but nothing else. that's what i take it to mean.

and i don't think there are many ppl who go to harvard. there's a lot of ppl that wish they did, but i only know of one so far. i'm talking bout harvard underg.

 

[LoveDoc]

left for the business world and now back to where I started. I think unless you've experienced it, it's hard to understand. Making money is nice, but something is missing. With medicine, you have a lot of flexibility in your career path (teaching, research, business, etc.) It's very appealing for a lot of people to have a secure career which is both intellectually challenging and allows for some social impact. I don't know how to explain this, but there it is.

smid, i'm behind you 100%. I started out pre-dent....was terrified of pre-meds. earned my degree and went on to work in information technology. at some point you wake up and realize the social footprint you are leaving in the societal mud just isn't deep enough...when you see the mal-treatment physicians are subjecting patients to...you remember what your first love was.

o and who wants to aspire to be a CEO. i don't look pretty in handcuffs.

 

[LadyLuck]

just testing to see if this avatar works....

 

[LadyLuck]

which it does not!

 

[Random Access]

Originally posted by Diogenes


I think it is because high stats are not necessarily indicative of potential for becoming a great doctor or scientist, which is probably the admissions committee's goal -- to pick people that will succeed greatly.

Exactly. I was talking do a friend's dad who is on an adcom, and I'll try to keep as close to what he said as possible... Basically he said that life experiences deserve very high consideration, because people who have had them are prepared for Real Life (tm). Most undergrads have experienced very little outside of their sheltered suburban lifestyle and their sheltered undergrad experience. Who's better prepared to deal with Real Life? Someone who has had a job and has dealt with being independent, or someone who has only been in school having only depended on their parents for 22 years?

People who have had real jobs and real life experiences are better prepared to deal with patients; real people who have had the same experiences. Yeah, high scores and high grades might mean you're smart or you can study well, but they don't dictate your being a good doctor by any means. Not to mention, those kids who spend all their time in the library studying lack social interaction skills, which needless to say are extremely important to being a doctor.

Do you want a class full of boring people who spent their whole undergrad career in the library? Med schools want interesting people; not just those with the highest numbers. Med school is more than just going to school; it's preparing you for a *life* in medicine, not just an *education* in medicine.

-RA

 

[Random Access]

Originally posted by dr kevin40
instead, they accept ppl with good life experiences to fill the middle and bottom of the scale, but they'll have these good stories to tell their classmates to keep them entertained during the four years?

Oh yeah...I forgot the other aspect of this thread to address... What makes people with life experiences the "middle" and "bottom" of the scale? Just because they don't have a 40 on the MCAT doesn't put them at the bottom of the so-called "scale." Who's to say you're not at the bottom of what med schools are looking for? Your interpretation of "the scale" isn't the same as what the med schools interpret as "the scale."
-RA

 

[Orthopod]

I think the majority of the med students would want good grades...but that doesn't justify them as being a gunner. In having a 'gunner' type attitude, one would consider themselves (at most) as being antisocial in that they don't go out so much as their peers would. Also, I think the mentality of being the top in the class is another gunner trait.

- ULTIMATE GUNNER: AL GORE (previously posted by ????, but notably monumental quote) too geh!

 

[Random Access]

Originally posted by Orthopod
I think the majority of the med students would want good grades...but that doesn't justify them as being a gunner. In having a 'gunner' type attitude, one would consider themselves (at most) as being antisocial in that they don't go out so much as their peers would. Also, I think the mentality of being the top in the class is another gunner trait.

I've heard at some schools...certainly not any in Baltimore (), gunners go as far as sabotaging notes of other people...


-RA

 

[SMW]

Originally posted by gowdah I strongly feel I have a very good chance at a top school. However, trust me I am leaning towards linking but I am sure you can understand that I want to consider all options. Especially if I believe that if I crank I can get into a great school.

Med school admissions tend to be a crap-shoot and even more so at the very top institutions. So how will you feel if you don't get in and have to reapply? If you're fine with it, go for the top schools. If you're a decent candidate, you'll probably get in somewhere with or without the linkage. So make sure to apply to some "safeties" if you forgo the linkage (There are no real safeties in med school admissions. Some schools will reject you because you're too good for them , others because they just have too many damn applicants).

 

[Sonya]

sorry for pulling out old thread.

the data i talked about (in new thread anyway)

http://www.geocities.com/sonyadave/admissiondata.htm

sonya

 

[Andrew_Doan]

Originally posted by LadyLuck
Thanks for all the info guys! You're so sweet! My husband wants to go to law school and apparently Yale has like ten times the opportunities for judicial clerkships than most other schools. So that is why I am interested. I am just afraid that because I am only a sophomore, my classes are going to continue to get waaayyy harder and I will see my gpa plummet. How are you supposed to find time to volunteer and shadow and do research all while trying to maintain a 4.0???? I guess I'm just paranoid Thanks guys!

Wait to see if your husband gets into Yale Law first. It's very competitive. Then worry about where to go to medical school after he finds a law school.

 

[Andrew_Doan]

Originally posted by Random Access
I've heard at some schools...certainly not any in Baltimore (), gunners go as far as sabotaging notes of other people...


-RA

I don't like the tone of this answer. We don't have gunners who sabatoge at Hopkins. If you have ever been at Hopkins, then you'd know what I mean. Med students at Hopkins, Harvard, Yale, etc... don't need to ruin their classmates to be at the top of their medical school class. They are ALL at the top and all of them match at very good programs, even the bottom of the class. Just ask the school for a copy of their match list. It's always very impressive. Knowing this fact reduces competition greatly.

 

[11000]

random access,

if you're talking about hopkins, then your source is unreliable. we don't have that kind of crazy competition. we're all gonna pass anyways, so what's the point? we have study groups, and people go out of their way to be helpful. which makes sense, considering we all want to be good physicians one day.

the "hopkins is psycho-competitive" story is a tired myth, as is the "yale is ridiculously easy and filled with slackers", etc. i understand that, oftentimes, people don't have access to the experience of people who go to these institutions, but that's what SDN is about. ask questions for people's experiences!

remain well,
swaroop

 

[wazupshah]

To get things straight:

Hopkins med school - Cooperative, loving, mushy, etc....

Hopkins undergrad - highly CUT-THROAT (people do steal others notes!)

 

[exigente chica]

Originally posted by Diogenes
I think it is because high stats are not necessarily indicative of potential for becoming a great doctor or scientist, which is probably the admissions committee's goal -- to pick people that will succeed greatly.

Well said

 

[Random Access]

Originally posted by wazupshah
Hopkins undergrad - highly CUT-THROAT (people do steal others notes!)

Just checked with my source on this. It was Hopkins undergrad.

Sorry, Ophtho, and Swaroop. Although Swaroop, I would argue that Yale is definitely filled with slackers. Especially those Trumbull undergrads.

 

[care bear]

"I would argue that Yale is definitely filled with slackers.
Especially those Trumbull undergrads."

hey, who's a Trumbull undergrad?
Saybrook '03 here.

yeah bulldogs. . .

 

[Street Philosopher]

i dunno if these were the acts of a dirty premed, but when i was living in the dorms, a lot of backpacks would be stolen right around midterm and finals.

 

[11000]

hey RA-- no worries!

and clearly trumbull undergrads are slackers, its because we've got too much partying to do...!

saybrook sucks. trumbull rocks.

swaroop