Yet another new pharmacy school...

Started by 67echo
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confettiflyer said:
Another issue is you delay the inevitable.... do you really think a student who just spent untold amounts of $$$ and four years of their life will walk away from NAPLEX should they fail to pass it?

Of course not... I think we need to make it harder, BUT what you'd end up doing is boosting test-prep programs and just delaying the inevitable. That student who fails and "decreases" the increase in RPh supply that particular year will just pass the next year.

My suggestion: harder NAPLEX to be instituted in 2011, full "two step" type test (written and practical) to be instituted by 2015 (and give fair warning to all the budding pre-pharms out there). Couple this with stricter ACPE requirements, and this could work.
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Creating a two step examination would be a whole new can of worms. How are you going to standardize the curriculum? Every pharmacy school has its own method of organizing courses. Some pharmacy schools start therapeutics their first year, ours delays therapeutics to year 2 and 3, other schools cram therapeutics into one year, touro has its 2+2 didactic program, and what about the 4 vs 3 year schools? I'm also not sure as to uniformity as to what's taught as well. The step program would also have to assess the detail of knowledge that all schools would have to conform to. Would the step examinations also examine pharmacology? medicinal chemistry? pharmacology? The pharmacy school background education is highly extensive and variable, but the only common denominator appears to be therapeutics.
 
atticus27 said:
So, here's a school you shiat on for being new but you guys probbaly coudn't score an interview yourself.

And New Schools...boo hooo biatch.. Your parties being crashed and you're sulking like little bitches. Reality is, new schools aren't matriculating classes of boneheads. Most are probably taking people just as competative as yourself. Btw, what do you expect when a huge f'in pharmacist shortage S.O.S. has been displayed in the media for the last 5 years.

Pssshhh please. You actually buy the shiat coming out your pie hole? You know the increase in pharm applicants has made admissions more selective. The PCAT you took, if you even had to, is way more challenging now than when you took it. In fact, people who took it before June 2008 get their scores scaled back about 5 points to equate for the current test difficulty. Btw, that's an interesting point of view seeing as you go to a pharm school that offers an online pharmD.
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You know - I once heard pharmacy is a small world.

Being such, I don't think it's the smartest idea in the world to let all those insults go flying so easily.

Tactful, tasteful discussions can communicate a message so much more efficiently than talking about pie holes. Mmmm pie. 😍
 
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Transformer said:
You're right, generation Jones, X and Y respectively may not be as large as the baby boomers. But I'm positive, there will be a higher percentage of senior citizens in ten or twenty years than now. Today, on average, Families are generally having less kids than families twenty or thirty years ago, and the elderly population is increasing and living longer than ever before. So, there must exist a projected demand in health care professionals; especially in Geriatrics services.
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Dude. Where are you getting these ideas?

US Admin on Aging projects that from 2000 to 2015, the proportion of people 60 and over will be from 16.8% to 20.3% (0.23% per year if we're looking at this linearly). Then in 2030, to increase to ~25%.

Yeah the percentage increased, but far from the explosion that people are suggesting. Roughly, US population is 300 million, give or take a few illegal immigrants =P. So one can expect 0.23% X 300 million = ~700,000 "new" old people. Now, in one year we're gonna have, what 30 new schools pumping out about 100 new pharmD's? 3,000 new grads to serve the new old folk which would be about a 1:230 ratio. For giggles and to fudge in the growing overall population, I'll increase that to 1:250.

What these numbers are telling me is that for every 250 new baby boomer to hit the population, I need one new pharmacist. That, friend, is bad business management, especially in light of the technology that's come about and expected to come about.

Now, don't go attacking my numbers down to the decimal, I'm not bored enough to add in all the little details - this was just a little snapshot - good catch Carboxide - the results of coffee deprivation

Also, noted is that if a school is started correctly, their first graduating class will/should be well less than 100... but that's assuming the school is started correctly



Schools that are already opened should not close.

Closing newly opened schools (pre-candidate/candidate status) means punishing current pharmacy students for ACPE's failure to tightly control the number of new pharmacists entering the profession.
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Tell that to HICP 👎thumbdown👎
 
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nikkai said:
Dude. Where are you getting these ideas?

US Admin on Aging projects that from 2000 to 2015, the proportion of people 60 and over will be from 16.8% to 20.3% (0.23% per year if we're looking at this linearly). Then in 2030, to increase to ~25%.

Yeah the percentage increased, but far from the explosion that people are suggesting. Roughly, US population is 300 million, give or take a few illegal immigrants =P. So one can expect 0.23% X 300 million = ~700,000 "new" old people. Now, in one year we're gonna have, what 30 new schools pumping out about 100 new pharmD's? 30,000 new grads to serve the new old folk which would be about a 1:23 ratio. For giggles and to fudge in the growing overall population, I'll increase that to 1:25.

What these numbers are telling me is that for every 25 new baby boomer to hit the population, I need one new pharmacist. That, friend, is bad business management.

Now, don't go attacking my numbers down to the decimal, I'm not bored enough to add in all the little details - this was just a little snapshot



Tell that to HICP 👎thumbdown👎
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Weeellll....not to attack to the DECIMAL, but 30*100 is only 3000, not 30,000, which changes your estimation to 1:250 or so. That's a pretty big difference. The point still stands...but that's a big difference.
 
lol this is so funny. pharmacist trying to scare pre-pharms (competition) into not entering the market. reminds of tech2's scaring tech1's at IBM, lol.
 
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I guess I should be glad my state only has 3 pharm schools...but hey, none of them want to stay in MI except me anyways, so I'm not worried! 😛
 
later2pharm said:
lol this is so funny. pharmacist trying to scare pre-pharms (competition) into not entering the market. reminds of tech2's scaring tech1's at IBM, lol.
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Competition🤣. Not to sound arrogant but I graduate in May and will have completed at least one and hopefully two residencies before you start your rotations. Some who have already commented have been practicing for a while and the last thing I think about with all of these new schools is competition. The point of this thread was not to scare "pre-pharms" into not going to pharm school, it was to understand that at this rate the shortage, will not last much longer (it's already over in some parts of the country). If the point was to scare "pre-pharms" wouldn't it be posted in the "pre-pharm" forum🙄
 
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FAMUPharmD09 said:
Competition🤣. Not to sound arrogant but I graduate in May and will have completed at least one and hopefully two residencies before you start your rotations. Some who have already commented have been practicing for a while and the last thing I think about with all of these new schools is competition. The point of this thread was not to scare "pre-pharms" into not going to pharm school, it was to understand that at this rate the shortage, will not last much longer (it's already over in some parts of the country). If the point was to scare "pre-pharms" wouldn't it be posted in the "pre-pharm" forum🙄
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haha i know right, this is a discussion of the surplus by students and practitioners. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
 
FAMUPharmD09 said:
Competition🤣. Not to sound arrogant but I graduate in May and will have completed at least one and hopefully two residencies before you start your rotations. Some who have already commented have been practicing for a while and the last thing I think about with all of these new schools is competition. The point of this thread was not to scare "pre-pharms" into not going to pharm school, it was to understand that at this rate the shortage, will not last much longer (it's already over in some parts of the country). If the point was to scare "pre-pharms" wouldn't it be posted in the "pre-pharm" forum🙄
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i dont think an argument can be made that it is necessary to post in the pre-pharm section in order to scare pre-pharms out of pursuing a pharmD.
 
later2pharm said:
i dont think an argument can be made that it is necessary to post in the pre-pharm section in order to scare pre-pharms out of pursuing a pharmD.
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right, but when you cross that threshold between "pre-pharm" and "pharm" be prepared to spar and read about issues that some of us are actually dealing with. It's not all rainbows and gumdrops. Interns aren't getting hired, robots are being made, NJ has a surplus, school admins lie about the shortage, etc etc... It's like getting mad if you're a pre-med student about practitioners talking about NP's/PA's taking more and more away from MD's.

If you want to talk about admission statistics, how much bling bling you'll be getting after you graduate, and debate PCAT scores...then don't take the plunge.
 
later2pharm said:
lol this is so funny. pharmacist trying to scare pre-pharms (competition) into not entering the market. reminds of tech2's scaring tech1's at IBM, lol.
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we're actually painting a realistic picture of whats there for potential pharmD students before they make the dive in and make a 4 year, 100k+ commitment on their education.

times have changed. you no longer have recruiters calling you about all the opportunities available in-state, retail chains are slowing down in expansion or not even expanding at all. signing bonuses are not as prevalent, and for retail you will probably have to float, and possibly work undesirable hours in that or other settings (2nd or 3rd shift)

who knows what will happen in 4 years? maybe the economy fully recovers and business goes back to normal. maybe universal healthcare comes into effect thus bringing a potential of additional 40+ million patients in demand for healthcare services. But then again things could get worse than it is right now
 
bigpharmD said:
I would never be a DO or a DPT. PA maybe. MD yes but I do not think it is worth the time and money anymore.
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"No" to MD, DO, DPT, PharmD, and a "maybe" to PA? Doesn't leave much in terms of health professions, the only field that is hiring right now and the one that is projected to grow the most in the future.
 
ffpickle said:
"No" to MD, DO, DPT, PharmD, and a "maybe" to PA? Doesn't leave much in terms of health professions, the only field that is hiring right now and the one that is projected to grow the most in the future.
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The only thing I ever really hear them talking about on TV is nurses. I should have listened to my mom. Jk. 😛
 
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I say just do PharmD then a PhD in Pharmacy Administration at OSU or a PhD in Health Management at Harvard, etc. Then you should hopefully be good to go...even with massive amounts of debt.
 
Do you think we should petition the ACPE to take action and stop accrediting schools and/or close schools?
 
fungikid said:
Do you think we should petition the ACPE to take action and stop accrediting schools and/or close schools?
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If the alternative is to do nothing, then heck ya.

More important than this though is continuing to advance Pharmacy Practice as a profession. Enhance the roles that pharmacists play within the health care team. Someone brought this up before and it made a lot of sense.
 
ffpickle said:
If the alternative is to do nothing, then heck ya.

More important than this though is continuing to advance Pharmacy Practice as a profession. Enhance the roles that pharmacists play within the health care team. Someone brought this up before and it made a lot of sense.
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judging from the response of these threads its pretty clear that we have a handful of passionate practitioners/students who realize that enough is enough.

You can definitely count me in, but the whole idea of organizing is usually where the hard part comes in, and the part of taking action is where many of these so called pharmacist advocacy organizations have failed us.
 
fungikid said:
Do you think we should petition the ACPE to take action and stop accrediting schools and/or close schools?
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If the alternative is to do nothing, then yes. They'll never close a school unless it is not meeting standards. Stopping the opening of new schools is more realistic.

More important than this though, is something that has been brought up on SDN priorly, i.e. the enhancement of Pharmacy Practice as a profession, in terms of scope of practice, breadth, diversity of tracks, etc. etc. Becoming more involved in patient care and primary care is key. Continual development of residencies is imp. For example, if you're doing a Cardiology residency, you should know everything about every relevant drug inside out, more than any cardiologist (as of right now, I'm not sure which of the two more about CVD drugs?) . This will make us even more highly valued.
 
i keep on hearing rumors of a mandatory residency for PharmDs in the imminent future. but how will this play out for the earlier PharmDs like us? it seems like that will shaft all the earlier pharmDs who have taken the extra step and did a residency... how will candidates be able to differentiate themselves then, a PGY-3???
 
jachen84 said:
judging from the response of these threads its pretty clear that we have a handful of passionate practitioners/students who realize that enough is enough.

You can definitely count me in, but the whole idea of organizing is usually where the hard part comes in, and the part of taking action is where many of these so called pharmacist advocacy organizations have failed us.
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These issues concern the future of the profession. Realistically, it is beyond students' capacity to effectively advocate on behalf of the profession, and the responsibility must lie with the so called pharmacist advocacy organizations. It's a full time job and requires a national strategy by large organizations. One thing pharmacists have going against them are numbers. The AMA is colossal in size, not sure exactly how many though. Nurses number ~ 2.5 mill, and pharmacists ~243, 000.
 
this is the problem with pharmacy. people involved in it are out for money. there is no preservation of the profession or any REAL PUSH for a change and advancement of the profession.

NURSING kicks the **** out of pharmacy right now. look at what a nurse can do and earn. their profession has made a push in the right direction.


The AMA limits the number of medical schools to be opened. THIS NEEDS TO HAPPEN IN PHARMACY. The pharmacy shortage is LONG GONE. Many people I know that graduated last year didnt find jobs for almost 5 months post graduation (yes EVER IN RETAIL). This year, new grads cannot find jobs. This profession is going in the wrong direction and in the ****ter fast.
 
jachen84 said:
i keep on hearing rumors of a mandatory residency for PharmDs in the imminent future. but how will this play out for the earlier PharmDs like us? it seems like that will shaft all the earlier pharmDs who have taken the extra step and did a residency... how will candidates be able to differentiate themselves then, a PGY-3???
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exactly. there is a push for it to happen in maybe 2014 i hear.

if it comes to that, it is better to go in medicine. at least in medicine you can EARN money, not save money. you have a real value and can trade off something. you can say "hey you fix the siding on my house, and ill take care of your kids for physicals and stuff". you have an earning potential and you bring money INTO the hospital. saving money isnt the same as bringing it.

3 yrs of residency is a bad idea. i dont know why they dont just make pharmacy a GRAD program and no applications right from high school. make a bachelors degree mandatory before applying like medicine does. that will def slow the flooding.
 
UMES? Really? Not to bash the school, but what's next, community colleges opening pharmacy programs? I didn't think this school would ever open a pharmacy program.
 
ItsOverZyvox said:
Wrong. You think it's easier to pay off 100K loan on 40K salaray compared to 200K loan on $120K salary? Think again.
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I do think it's easier to pay off the 100k loan with 40K salary from ten or twenty years ago than the 200k loan with 120k salary from today. Roughly from 1980s to 2009, The pharmacist salary increased from an average of 40k - 50K/year to 110 to 120K/year. Do you think my salary will increase 60k or 80k in the next ten or twenty years (to 200K/year)? probably not.

So if you started on a 10 to 20 year loan repayment plan in the 1980s or 1990s, your salary most likely doubled. We probably won't see this in the next twenty years. Given the projected stagnate growth in pharmacist salary, it will not be as easy trying to pay that 200k on 120K salary with litte growth in salary than paying 100k on 40k salary with doubling in salary in next 10 to 20 years.
 
So the consensus is that Pharmacy is a ****ty profession?

Damn, I wish I knew this a year ago 🙁

And I'm not at all being facetious. 🙁 🙁 🙁
 
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Residencies won't be required in the near future because there are only enough spots for about 11% of the graduating class.
 
I think we need to fight for more responsibilities. We "recently" won the right to immunize.

The next step is limited prescriptive ability! Any hospital pharmacist would love some prescribing power.
 
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