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Wow, you truly have the IQ of an orangutan, albeit one with delusions of grandeur. Your comments are so douche, I think I just forgave my buddy BMB.
Yet another new pharmacy school...
Started by 67echo
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Wow, you truly have the IQ of an orangutan, albeit one with delusions of grandeur. Your comments are so douche, I think I just forgave my buddy BMB.
I don't think he's real - he's probably an angry prepharmer.
He also can't spell.
Z-pack is that you?
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Actually I keep trying to warn the school districts that when you give special ed classrooms internet access... this is what you get.
Me too, I keep coming back...they keep pulling me back in...hahahaha, I love this...so much pharmacy students who will be so much in debt, no future, no jobs, I can't wait til they start implementing techs and robots to replace you losers...I already made all the money I can. Pharmacy is the career for people who are all about the money, too bad there is no more money, hahahah, wah wah wah
Im as real as you can be, you are all just in denial, how does 100k in debt sound. I only owed less than 10k in my time, and we had jobs. Haha
Don't be mad that you chose a career solely for financial reasons, and don't give me the whole I want to help people bs, we all know it is not real. I guess greed has a price. Its called school loans
They should change the pharmacy forum to medical school rejects, or for the clinical pharmacists to wannabe doctors. This whole clinical thing is laughable, justa bunch of med rejects who want to play doctor so going clinical makes them slightly feel less adequate. A retail pharmacist is a real pharmacist, not a wannabe doctor, clinical pharmacists are in the same boat as doctor of nurse practitioner.
We now return to our regularly scheduled programming.
Exactly. I keep hearing "the ACPE, AACP can't do anything." Seems pretty incompetent
I think each new school should have to provide a thorough justification for the opening of a new school, including stats/data on pharmacist shortage/surplus in the local area, need in the population, i.e patient need, reasoning for new school, etc.
What evidence to we have of this? Won't they simply hire the cheapest licensed pharmacist? It is a business after all.
AAMC & AMA have control over the number of medical schools opening, which is why so many off-shore medical schools have opened (and some have even closed since).
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I agree with this; a school opening up in Florida, California, or New Jersey at this point is simply a waste of money, time, and effort. A school opening up in states without readily available school from which to recruit from has every right to open a school to draw in-state professionals. If there's a limit on the amount of schools being opened, the amount of quality faculty would not be as diluted and thus, potentially better future pharmacists. I'm all for advancing this profession but right now, it feels more like saturation than advancement.
...maybe I need more coffee; I'm being pessimistic.
Rankings are v. important for JD & MBA, & regarding IT, well it depends which degree within IT you are talking about.
Perhaps PharmD will follow suit?
That is very rude and unbecoming of a professional involved in health care.
That's what it sounds like.
I have zero interest in doing a residency. I may not even go to the ASHP convention this year, even though my cousin lives in Vegas and performs for a well-known company 😎, because the idea of a residency is such a turn-off. It's like a sick spawn from the motherly god academia.
I'll just go where they need me fresh out of school and do additional education later down the line as it becomes necessary. Or if I feel homesick and sad from having my umbilical cord cut from mother academia, I'll go back to school sooner. - Residencies are ****.
Everyone in this thread seems to be decrying the utility/usefulness of doing a residency
....from reading the Pharmacy residency section on SDN, it seemed all peachy keen, they gave mostly the upside! 😕
Everyone in this thread seems to be decrying the utility/usefulness of doing a residency
....from reading the Pharmacy residency section on SDN, it seemed all peachy keen, they gave mostly the upside! 😕
I think it just depends on what you want to do with your career. I've heard both sides. I've talked to a few directors and they told me that even though the job description (clinical pharmacist) doesn't require a residency, they won't hire anyone without one. This is just a few that I've had a chance to talk to. Of course it's not true everywhere. I've been told that if I have a slightest interest in doing it, I should. We'll see what will happen next year.
Everyone in this thread seems to be decrying the utility/usefulness of doing a residency
....from reading the Pharmacy residency section on SDN, it seemed all peachy keen, they gave mostly the upside! 😕
How many of the ones "decrying" have actually done a residency?
Overall, I've seen only one or two people who've actually completed a residency on this forum since I've been coming here that have more negatives to say about a residency than positives. And, none of the residency-trained pharmacists I know personally (quite a lot) regret doing one.In the end, it's ultimately going to boil down to what YOU want to do and what YOU want to get out of your career as to whether or not you do a residency.
I don't exactly see the connection between a geographic restriction and the impending surplus. Just because you go to school in X state doesn't mean you're going to stay there. I think the pharm/pre-pharm student population is a lot more fluid.
If I'm opening my own private pharm school, I don't think it's gonna necessarily matter if I open the school in NJ or North Dakota...I'm still going to get overrepresentation from CA, NY, and other population centers in my student population.
Though I agree you'll get issues regarding rotation/IPPE sites, I'm curious to see how that plays out at CNCP seeing as Touro and UOP are in their backyards, and Touro has that 2+2 thing so you've got two simultaneous classes on rotation instead of one (so that's like having 1.5 schools in the area). I'm sure the southern schools have rotation sites set up in northern california.
If I'm opening my own private pharm school, I don't think it's gonna necessarily matter if I open the school in NJ or North Dakota...I'm still going to get overrepresentation from CA, NY, and other population centers in my student population.
Though I agree you'll get issues regarding rotation/IPPE sites, I'm curious to see how that plays out at CNCP seeing as Touro and UOP are in their backyards, and Touro has that 2+2 thing so you've got two simultaneous classes on rotation instead of one (so that's like having 1.5 schools in the area). I'm sure the southern schools have rotation sites set up in northern california.
Everyone in this thread seems to be decrying the utility/usefulness of doing a residency
....from reading the Pharmacy residency section on SDN, it seemed all peachy keen, they gave mostly the upside! 😕
That person hasnt even graduated. I love it when students tell everyone how it is in the real world. .....
They have no clueConfetti: I was referring to hospitals and agencies within a state recruiting from in-state pharmacy schools. Say a state has no in-state pharmacy schools. Recruitment of professionals would have to be based off of neighboring states. I just figured it would make sense for such a state to have a new pharmacy school pop up to address something like this; it wouldn't be a bad idea. There's no guaranteeing that the students will remain in the state but that should make recruitment easier by allowing agencies to seek students already congregated in one school rather than spreading out far and wide.
Don't get me wrong; agencies will still seek out of state students who they see as a great fit for them and there would be plenty of students who are flexible enough to fit these types of situations. I just think that this situation makes a lot more sense than schools opening in Florida, California, New Jersey, and other states basically saturated with pharmacists.
Don't get me wrong; agencies will still seek out of state students who they see as a great fit for them and there would be plenty of students who are flexible enough to fit these types of situations. I just think that this situation makes a lot more sense than schools opening in Florida, California, New Jersey, and other states basically saturated with pharmacists.
SIUE is right near St. Louis.
UIC has been around for 150 years. I thought Midwestern has been around for about 25 years.
For UIC students, UIC is one of the largest sites. Everyone does at least one rotation either at the hospital or clinics. The second biggest site is Jesse Brown VA. Both those sites are closed to non-UIC pharmacy students.
Illinois did a survey on its pharmacist shortage a couple of years ago, about 2005. At that point, Illinois was short about 300-400 pharmacists. Most of those open positions were out of the Chicago area.
I heard that Roosevelt wants to open a new pharmacy school. We all know,
, what a "fine" institution that is.Well if there will be oversupply of pharmacists, there are several consequences:
First of all, the salaries might fall or stay the same. They cannot fall by too much because then pharmacists with huge loans will not be accepting the offers (since they won't be able to pay their loans back) and eventually people will not be enrolling to pharmacy schools leading back again to pharmacy shortage. Shortage is not profitable for chains. I think most likely the salaries will probably stay the same but they will not be growing (maybe not even growing with inflation rate). However, you will have oversupply of all these pharmacists graduating from both established schools and newly opened ones. I know the demand is growing due to baby boomers but with the economy that we have right now, new pharmacy school popping up on every single corner, new technology, and downsizing of hospitals - supply of pharmacists will be way higher than demand for them. So when the chains will be hiring people - they will have a wide choice of pharmacists: the ones graduated from established schools and the ones from D'Whatevervilles. Who do you think they will hire? Many people have already addressed the educational quality or more so the lack of it at the new schools. No chain wants to deal with any lawsuits, so from the wide choice they have they will rather hire a pharmacist from established school because in their minds there is less chance of mistakes with these employees (since these employees have better education).
Ok, these were my 5 cents. I was econ minor in undergrad so take it with grain of salt - you might want to find an econ major who could draw you graphs and do a little more advanced analysis than this 😉
Is pharmacy becoming the next MBA or JD?
I've been surprised by reading how quickly a law career has gone down the crapper.
I've been surprised by reading how quickly a law career has gone down the crapper.
My prediction is many lawyers will change career to pharmacy soon.
Duuuuuuude bra dude man totally bra dude, I don't think it's the same. If you took the test in 2003 your percentile was based off an older test group than the current one. So, if an 85% composite in 2003 is supposed to be a 85% in 2009, then why do you think they scaled the scores back so an 85% in 2007 is now an 80% in 09? Doesn't add up.
Let me add to the new school list for 2010:
Concordia-Wisconsin-projects a class size of 300.
Presbyterian College-NC
University of South Florida
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Senior Rutgers,
I agree that too many schools are opening up, but what I'm saying is that new schools are not solely accepting the bottom of the barrel.
Sure, flame D'Youville and UNE in spite of more new programs, but assuming the programs will be total garbage isn't rational. Both schools have been around for over 100 years, both host other health profession schools, and UNE has a med school which I'm sure would help contribute to rotation spots, that and the fact that it's in Maine were there probably is enough spots to go around. D'Youville, on the other hand, may have to scrap for spots.
I thought everyone everywhere had to do at least one hospital rotation. If not, there's one easy way to make it more difficult to open new pharmacy schools: make hospital and rotations other than retail a requirement. Do that and change to the two years of classes/two of rotations curriculum like med school.
- If I was in college today, I would not be applying to pharmacy schools.
- If I was in pharmacy school today, I would be applying for a residency.
- If I was in retail pharmacy today, I would be looking for a way out.
That person hasnt even graduated. I love it when students tell everyone how it is in the real world. .....
Interesting. So a person can't acquire a real world perspective unless they graduate pharm school? Is therapeutics and kinetics also a pre-req in order to discuss the saturated job market? Why not try and appreciate a different perspective even if it may be incorrect.
Because it's hard to appreciate incorrect perspectives. Because perspectives from people who's done it are more better.
It's always amusing for parents when people with no children try to tell them how to raise children.
It's impossible to know how one group would fare on the other test an vice versa. If they actually do "scale" the scores back (I've never heard of this...of course, I don't care, anyway), they are in error and not using quality statistics. If I had to guess, it's to make people retake the test.
Come back in a few years, assuming you make it into the 2nd or 3rd year of pharmacy school, and go through that same logic after you take a biomedical literature evaluation class. You'll see the error in your logic. There is this concept called "crossover" that would be required to compare the two cohorts satisfactorily. In this case, there is no such crossover. To say that an 85 percentile in '03 is the equivalent to an 80 in '09 is fallacious.
Dude.
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Here's what UPMC wants for a unit based clinical pharmacist (you can look it up on the job search on their website):
So in Pittsburgh, one year of residency = two years of hospital pharmacy experience. Honestly, to me, it hardly seems worth it. However, it seems like PGY2 residencies are the point of real differentiation. That extra year appears to really be a separator. If you want to be an ID pharmacist...you NEED a PGY2 residency, period.
so, here is the speculation for schools that might be opening for 2010....
The University of Maryland Eastern Shores
Drexel
Farleigh Dickinson
D' Youville College
Husson University
Concordia-Wisconsin-projects a class size of 300.
Presbyterian College-NC
University of South Florida
Here are the current schools that are not fully accredited and have not even started pumping out new grads yet.....
Belmont TN -------------------------------Pre-Candidate**
Calilfornia Northstate CA -------------------Pre-Candidate**
Charleston WV---------------------------- Candidate**
Chicago State IL --------------------------Pre-Candidate**
East Tennessee State TN ------------------Candidate**
Findlay OH --------------------------------Candidate**
Harding, University of AR -------------------Pre-Candidate**
Hawaii at Hilo HI ---------------------------Candidate**
Incarnate Word TX ------------------------Candidate**
Lipscomb TN ------------------------------Pre-Candidate**
New England, University of ME -------------No ACPE Status to Date
NEOUCOP OH ------------------------------Candidate**
Notre Dame of Maryland*** MD ------------No ACPE Status to Date
Pacific U. (OR) OR -------------------------Candidate**
Regis*** CO------------------------------ No ACPE Status to Date
Southern Illinois Edwardsville IL -------------Candidate**
Sullivan *** KY ----------------------------PreCandidate
Texas A&M - Kingsville TX -------------------Candidate**
Thomas Jefferson *** PA------------------- Pre-Candidate**
Touro (CA) CA -----------------------------Candidate**
Touro (NY) NY -----------------------------Pre-Candidate**
Union TN ----------------------------------Pre-Candidate**
So.... this is a possible number of 30 new schools that will have opened in the last 5 years. How many will open up for 2011? 2012? Is it 4, 5, 6 new schools every year?
We don't even know how the market is going to react to all of the new schools, and they are still opening more every year. It is out of hand. We are reaching JD territory opening this many new schools.
It seems like the best way to make money in pharmacy is to open your own private pharmd diploma business, charge $150,000 for the degree, and watch the value of the degree fall apart in the next decade. It looks like a bubble to me.
The University of Maryland Eastern Shores
Drexel
Farleigh Dickinson
D' Youville College
Husson University
Concordia-Wisconsin-projects a class size of 300.
Presbyterian College-NC
University of South Florida
Here are the current schools that are not fully accredited and have not even started pumping out new grads yet.....
Belmont TN -------------------------------Pre-Candidate**
Calilfornia Northstate CA -------------------Pre-Candidate**
Charleston WV---------------------------- Candidate**
Chicago State IL --------------------------Pre-Candidate**
East Tennessee State TN ------------------Candidate**
Findlay OH --------------------------------Candidate**
Harding, University of AR -------------------Pre-Candidate**
Hawaii at Hilo HI ---------------------------Candidate**
Incarnate Word TX ------------------------Candidate**
Lipscomb TN ------------------------------Pre-Candidate**
New England, University of ME -------------No ACPE Status to Date
NEOUCOP OH ------------------------------Candidate**
Notre Dame of Maryland*** MD ------------No ACPE Status to Date
Pacific U. (OR) OR -------------------------Candidate**
Regis*** CO------------------------------ No ACPE Status to Date
Southern Illinois Edwardsville IL -------------Candidate**
Sullivan *** KY ----------------------------PreCandidate
Texas A&M - Kingsville TX -------------------Candidate**
Thomas Jefferson *** PA------------------- Pre-Candidate**
Touro (CA) CA -----------------------------Candidate**
Touro (NY) NY -----------------------------Pre-Candidate**
Union TN ----------------------------------Pre-Candidate**
So.... this is a possible number of 30 new schools that will have opened in the last 5 years. How many will open up for 2011? 2012? Is it 4, 5, 6 new schools every year?
We don't even know how the market is going to react to all of the new schools, and they are still opening more every year. It is out of hand. We are reaching JD territory opening this many new schools.
It seems like the best way to make money in pharmacy is to open your own private pharmd diploma business, charge $150,000 for the degree, and watch the value of the degree fall apart in the next decade. It looks like a bubble to me.
What would you recommend for someone who has already been accepted and should be able to finish with about $50K invested in the degree?
No you cant...simple answer. You have no clue what life in the real world is like unless you are a non-trad who has had a previous career. Any grad school gives you the "basics" of what you need to be successfull and that is it.
God Damn it I have already been in school for 5 years getting my bachelor's degree. Would be 4 years getting the PharmD, a year of residency, and two years to get an MBA. Grand total of 12 years in school. Awesome.
The RPh's at work making 100K with 5 years of school and no debt do not realize how well they have it, and how screwed future PharmDs could end up.
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You could get an MBA after residency while working. Look at it this way, how old will be you in 7 years after you've earned PharmD/MBA/residency?
And how old will you be in 7 years after only PharmD?
Hmmm...same age.. yet which option do you think will help your cause?
Choose wisely.
dp
Put a pharmacy residency in one hand and a doctorate (beyond PharmD) in the other hand and see which one adds more weight to a PharmD.
'nuff said.
'nuff said.
