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Ahh.. good plan. 😀
Yet another new pharmacy school...
Started by 67echo
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So can anyone give me a brief summary of this 9 page thread??? 
So can anyone give me a brief summary of this 9 page thread???
New pharmacy schools will saturate the market with new pharm Ds and our standard of living will tank.
Since the pharmacy profession is poorly organized and can't protect its interests, it will be powerless to stop the "whoring out" of the profession.
The sky is falling and we're all out of sarcasm.
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Good summary. There was also a few pages about bashing DNPs somewhere in there.
Overall an excellent thread.
Great team effort. We got in, took care of business, got out with minimal casualties. The road was long and treacherous filled with untold dangers from all corners but we managed to get most of us out unscathed.
We lost our way a bit but we found ourselves back on the road, and we powered through, driving home the ball. Someone lost the driver, but all hope is not lost.
We lost our way a bit but we found ourselves back on the road, and we powered through, driving home the ball. Someone lost the driver, but all hope is not lost.
And here comes another pharmacy school. Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine is opening one in 2010 at the GA campus.
http://www.pcom.edu/administration/...ngs/GA_Job_Positions/GA_PCOM_Position_11.html
So, a possible 9 pharmacy diploma businesses opening up next year?
Another thing besides numbers is that pharmacy is the only health profession with a small number of large employers equivalent to the chains (who can and will counter-lobby).
I've read most of this thread, and it's been pretty informative. When will we stand up to the higher education scam and close >50% of all these crap schools (undergrad and graduate), anyway?
The education bubble in pharmacy is eye-opening. I'd say in 10-15 years things may look as poor as law schools. The massive opening of DO schools and increase of MD school slots has medicine slated to hit a bubble too...Don't even get me started on the HUNDREDS of "doctor of nurse practice" schools which will saddle America with one of two things, or both: underqualified providers with a huge debt load treating patients or underqualified providers with huge debt without jobs that pay anything close to loan payback.
Shortages are not a bad thing, and overshooting by opening up new schools is the bad way to go. These colleges open up these pharm schools..law schools...doctorate of nursing practice school...even medical schools (to date, usually smallish DO schools)...for one reason: to make $$/increase "prestige". They use the "shortage" proclaimed in the media to push their bottom line.
I really like the pharmacist ADI...it's a great way to track the overall work supply. I also am really concerned for you guys when I read about Walgreen's Power...Even if patients suffer, if it will save the chain money and headache, they'll do it, and so will every other chain. Cut out that mid-shift pharmacist, and you guys are in a heap of trouble.
Keep up the good discussion. I think you guys are ahead of other health professions in your concerns and insight to market trends, and should organize things before they REALLY get out of hand...
Coastie, a lurking anesthesiology resident/healthcare trend observer
The education bubble in pharmacy is eye-opening. I'd say in 10-15 years things may look as poor as law schools. The massive opening of DO schools and increase of MD school slots has medicine slated to hit a bubble too...Don't even get me started on the HUNDREDS of "doctor of nurse practice" schools which will saddle America with one of two things, or both: underqualified providers with a huge debt load treating patients or underqualified providers with huge debt without jobs that pay anything close to loan payback.
Shortages are not a bad thing, and overshooting by opening up new schools is the bad way to go. These colleges open up these pharm schools..law schools...doctorate of nursing practice school...even medical schools (to date, usually smallish DO schools)...for one reason: to make $$/increase "prestige". They use the "shortage" proclaimed in the media to push their bottom line.
I really like the pharmacist ADI...it's a great way to track the overall work supply. I also am really concerned for you guys when I read about Walgreen's Power...Even if patients suffer, if it will save the chain money and headache, they'll do it, and so will every other chain. Cut out that mid-shift pharmacist, and you guys are in a heap of trouble.
Keep up the good discussion. I think you guys are ahead of other health professions in your concerns and insight to market trends, and should organize things before they REALLY get out of hand...
Coastie, a lurking anesthesiology resident/healthcare trend observer
To late...we are already there. We have been for a few years.
Here is a stand-alone for 2011: Central California School of Pharmacy (http://ccspedu.org)
2010 or 2011: Samuel Merritt University
Apply: (http://www.samuelmerritt.edu/jobs/view/461)
Yeah, he is really good. he plays with is his bro all the time. he just bought me a set of golf clubs today so I dont have to borrow somebody elses...Im getting better! lol
If I had the chance to start over again, I would have pursued a PA degree. They do a lot more than clinical pharmacist. Half of the time, I felt clinical pharmacists were ignored and had to work very hard to get any attentions from MD, NP, or PA. Besides, PA school is only 2 yrs, whereas, Pharm D. takes 4 yrs minimum after a B.S.
If I had the chance to start over again, I would not have done a residency because I realized that I love working with patients. Retail or ambulatory pharmacy are the only places where you get to interact with patients. There's hardly any ambulatory pharmacist positions out there.
Would I choose to do a residency again? Yes...reasons: 1st: you will need one to get a job in the future. But if you do one, besure to do a PGY2 since a lot of PGY1 new graduates can't get a clinical position. You don't need a PGY1 to become a staff pharmacist. 2nd: You found out what you like and don't like about the field of pharmacy especially clinical pharmacy. 3rd: You learn how to defend yourself and how not to allow other people to walk all over you.
Is Pharm D. useless? No...if you allow the degree to be useless..then it will be useless.
Is the field saturated? Yes..it will be more difficult to get a job in the future. Pharmacist who graduated and cannot find a job had happened before in the 1980's. Supply and demand will readjust itself. Once ASHP and ACCP have their way with required residency, there will be a shortage again. By 2020 (that's what they say), every Pharm D. will be required to do at least a 1 yr residency before they can practice.
1. Become a PA, this is not hard to do.
2. Can you link the last time a PA was the lead author of a New England Journal of Medicine or JAMA paper?
I have a hard time answering all of the pages in a day from physicians, NPs, or PAs, I don't know where you work.
Mountain: how's the market in Texas? Is it as saturated as in CA?
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Just like Pharmacy schools, not all residency programs are the same. I don't know if you notice, but not all MDs, PA, or NPs are receptive to Pharm D. suggestions. We only have the power to suggest or inform not act.
At most retail pharmacies, there is only a midshift (i.e. 11am-6pm) at 24 hour pharmacies.
I'm a believer that 2020 is way too early for requiring a residency for all pharmacists. Remember, there is a relatively small number of them as compared to overall number of pharmacists being graduated, only about 11%. The powers to be in pharmacy, the boards of pharmacy, state or NABP, have not moved in any way to require a residency for full licensure.
I don't believe retail pharmacy is a dead end venture. Close to 2/3 of all pharmacists work in retail in one way or another. The aspect of that job will change. The sector of pharmacy which has seen a true decline over the last few years is actually in-patient, hospital pharmacy.
If the laws were change to get rid of the pharmacist, it would hurt everyone equally.
I'm a believer that 2020 is way too early for requiring a residency for all pharmacists. Remember, there is a relatively small number of them as compared to overall number of pharmacists being graduated, only about 11%. The powers to be in pharmacy, the boards of pharmacy, state or NABP, have not moved in any way to require a residency for full licensure.
I don't believe retail pharmacy is a dead end venture. Close to 2/3 of all pharmacists work in retail in one way or another. The aspect of that job will change. The sector of pharmacy which has seen a true decline over the last few years is actually in-patient, hospital pharmacy.
If the laws were change to get rid of the pharmacist, it would hurt everyone equally.
In the bigger cities it is completely saturated. There is no shortage in Dallas. If you go out to far east or west Texas you will have no trouble. In the Midland/Odessa area in east Texas you can still get a 30k sign on bonus.
Like stated above get a PA degree, not hard to do. I have no problem acting on my own. I know several PharmD, PAs and guess what they practice as?? Clinical pharmacists. Being a PA is not all its cracked up to be. On my service their main responsibility is getting the progress note in the chart before we round. They do not make ANY decisions on drug therapy. Half the time we change anything they have done. That is always a discussion between me and the attending. The interaction between pharmds and the other healthcare professionals usually depends on if their prior interactions with pharmacists. I interact with patients everyday so I am not sure why that is a problem for you unless you did ICU. Remember some people love direct patient hands on care. I dont think a PA degree is a bad option for those people. I dont mind not having that and I am busy enought without it.
By the way why are you posting about failing/quitting residency? You have only a couple months. Sounds like you have some issues......
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I feel like hospital jobs have grown for people with specialty training. Maybe your basement staffing jobs have decreased as many places move to makre pharmacy decentralized. I would say overall, it is at least steady.
Believe it or not, San Antonio still has the sign on bonuses...but I've heard that that will end after this graduation cycle. Houston & Austin is oversaturated as well...
A lot of the hospitals are either cutting staff, having a hiring freeze or both.
Yeah so are a lot of industries. I just signed on for a specialist position in a big city with a bonus. Go figure.
Not in retail. It is not growing as fast but it is still growing. Congrats on the new job.
Yep, the old "supply and demand" equillibrium change. My sister is a pharmacist so I have vested interest in the profession. Nedless to say, if this trend continues, I forsee a significant decrease in pharmacists' salaries in the next few decades.
Same here. One of the big reasons for me to get into pharmacy was to be able to live in a rural area without having to be a farmer, plant worker, or minimum wage clerk. I'm heading right back to the rural midwest or rural west when I finish.
Last time I saw a pharmacy school with a .org web address, 250 students were out of school and money within a year with the founders running off to Kentucky... Jus' sayin'.
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Not to be an ass, but those 250 students deserve it for being the lemmings that they are. They didnt acknowledge reality until down to the last minute. At least they got a nice vacation in HI out of it.
2004 was a vastly different world in terms of pharmacy schools vs. 2009, it's like telling someone in 2004 that we'd be in a full global recession in 2009 with property values cut in half in some places. The feeling at the time was that we'd level off on housing prices and that would be it.
I wouldn't necessarily lump HICP's students in with those that are applying to these no-name stand alone schools and taking out ugly private loans to do it. The former was just sad, the latter is just stupidity. Fool me once, fool me twice, etc etc
Except they were repeatly warned. . . and even then, they didnt acknowledge warnings and defended the school.
The fall of HICP...by FAR the biggest event in the history of the SDN Pharmacy forum history.
Yeah, but it had never happened before. If it happens now, it's just ******ed...not only are there warnings, there's a very good example. However, with all the ACPE requirements that have grown out of that (finance requirements, etc...), it's quite a bit harder to pull of an HICP today (still very much possible).
Then again, if you told someone Lehman Bros. would go bankrupt back in 2004, you'd have been laughed out of the room.
Im going to school and will eventually work in Australia. will I be safe from all this doom and gloom? Is this a US issue or does it extend elsewhere? Canada?
You should do some independent research to figure that out.
There are a few regular members from Canada, e.g. Requiem and Pharmavixen, but that is too few a number to represent the status of an entire country.
Good luck searching!
👍 Great comment.. There're lots of threads and posts on this topic already. Instead of posting message anonymously, why not getting together and organizing a protest or at least organizing the education session informing the public that the shortage is no long exist and we have to expand our roles to prevent the potential oversupply. I will join you guys in a heart beat!!! How about APhA national meeting on "concerns about the potential oversupply of pharmacist" etc...
The protest/session/meeting may not change anything legally or structurally but at least it will correct the public and the media's misconception about the shortage. We can publish some formal article like predicted oversupply of pharmacists or something similar. Especially, those pre-pharm/future students who will invest $100,000 of tuition for this profession should NOT be misinformed about shortage and put the financial aspect into their decision making process. At least, this will discourage the new schools from using the "shortage" proclaimed in the media to push their bottom line.
The protest/session/meeting may not change anything legally or structurally but at least it will correct the public and the media's misconception about the shortage. We can publish some formal article like predicted oversupply of pharmacists or something similar. Especially, those pre-pharm/future students who will invest $100,000 of tuition for this profession should NOT be misinformed about shortage and put the financial aspect into their decision making process. At least, this will discourage the new schools from using the "shortage" proclaimed in the media to push their bottom line.
Indeed.
That makes us very dull people..
Indeed.
I have to say "indeed".
Indeed
We need MOAR!!!!!
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I don't get it.
Seriously? I was about to go there, but I won't. 😛
For real. I don't know what the hell she is doing or wtf moar means. Spill the beans homeslice. Is she coming up for air?
She's feening for "more" pharmacy schools... big time- so much so that she can't even use whatever brain cells that are left in her head to spell "more" correctly. It's like she's can only "roar" the word "moar".
It's like a vampire screaming "MEET" or "BLUD" or something.
Or it's like their brain has left the building, and their greed and instincts have taken over.
How 'bout that? Does it work for you?
