"You're a gunner"

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digitiminimi23

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I know the topic of gunners has been discussed extensively here but I just needed to vent. I've never encountered such a serious, anti-gunner attitude as the one at my West Coast school. Most people here equate wanting to work hard with gunnerism. It's as if there's an unwritten rule here about working too hard. It's like if you get "caught" studying beyond what is needed to pass a course, you're an outcast. I thought being a gunner meant getting ahead by working hard but also in the process DELIBERATELY bringing other people down?! Now, don't get me wrong, I can understand one's frustration and anger at a person who intentionally tries to sabotage his or her classmates, but what if the person simply wants to do his best and has no bad intentions?! Here are a few examples of what it's like at my school (and maybe all other med schools, I'm not sure):

Not totally committed to primary care? You're SUCH a gunner!

You actually want to go into the anatomy lab after hours? You're a gunner!

You bought First Aid for Step 1 during MS1? (although it's been recommended to do so by numerous 3rd years I've talked to) Damn, you're a gunner!

You actually replied EARLY to that email from the professor or club? You're a major gunner!

WTF! [/vent] I feel better now.
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They're probably just jealous that you are doing better then them. Do what you feel is necessary to get the grades that you want, not what others think you should want. In the end, you're the one that is going to need to do good on the boards for your future.

Every school has people who study a lot, even though they may not be in the library or seen by others. At my school, I'd say about 10-20% study in the library or at school, so obviously the rest have to be studying a little at home or even a lot for a matter of fact. I personally know a lot of students who study just as much as I do at home rather then in the library.

Also, before our anatomy practical exams, I'd say 50% of the class if not more came to the anatomy lab after hours to study. So, don't worry about it, do your work, and move on.
 
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I know at my school we use the term a lot in a joking, good-natured way. "Oh, you're such a gunner...haha". Maybe people are just joking around with you.
 
This thread...just wow...

It's like the divide between those who constantly study and those who don't...like the Outsiders but hella nerdy.

I just want to say that not everyone who doesn't live in lab or study 24/7 is jealous of those who do. Many of us are actually successful despite the fact that we may not study very much during the week or visit anatomy lab in our free time. I think the main difference is that the people who don't seem to work as hard as their classmates have other time-consuming things going on in their lives. Many of my classmates (myself included) have jobs outside of medical school. We play sports, we volunteer with children, and we still do well in medical school. Perhaps the "gunner" comments spring from the fact that we just don't understand why anyone would choose to study so much when they could have other things in their life too and do just as well.

I don't intend this post to come off as abrasive or harsh, I just want to represent those of us on the other side of the spectrum.
 
URHere said:
This thread...just wow...

It's like the divide between those who constantly study and those who don't...like the Outsiders but hella nerdy.
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Stay gold, Ponyboy.

Anywho, assuming they're not ribbing you good naturedly, this is probably a self defense mechanism on their part. They're projecting negatives on you "the gunner" so they don't identify themselves that way. Look at the primary care thing. If you say "I'm thinking about doing ENT" then they can jump all over you for not wanting to do primary care and make themselves feel superior even though they may be questioning it themselves.

And on an additional note, if this your first year, everyone's still trying to sniff out how the real powerhouses are and it can be a really annoying process. I remember how we thought this one guy was the class gunner (in anatomy lab all the time, always asking questions, always seen studying) until we figured out that he was actually struggling and trying to compensate by looking like a stud and it turned out the quiet kid who was never at class was destroying everyone.
 
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My opinion: Who gives a ****

i used to think about this stuff from time to time in 1st yr where i felt i must be studying in the top 10 % of the class. But then I came to realize that you can only focus on what you do and not about others. If I worried about everyone else, I would be obsessed with beating the average when in reality all I want is to get the P and learn at the same time.

Now in 2nd year, I study about 1/2 as much and worry way less about that stuff and my lifestyle has dramatically improved...case in point, GI test tommorow and im on sdn and i dont give a *** because I know that a. grades arent everything and b. i understood the concepts pretty well
 
From what I observed the people who are the top of the class at my school are not necessarily the ones who study the most hours. They have the ability to study efficiently and integrate knowledge in a way that just sticks in their head forever.

It's ok to spend a lot of time studying but it can be perceived as "gunnerish" if you brag or flaunt how many hours you study in an effort to intimidate other students or brag about your grades or if you avoid everyone in an effort to get ahead. If you spend a lot of time making flashcards or useful outlines it's always nice to share them with your classmates as a gesture of goodwill.
 
GreenShirt said:
If you spend a lot of time making flashcards or useful outlines it's always nice to share them with your classmates as a gesture of goodwill.
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Good advice....As long as you don't actively do something to hurt other student's chances of success, you can do whatever you want.
Some people say that if they spend 5 hours taking notes on something they have no obligation to share w/ their classsmates, w/ which I agree...but then you have to spend that much more on every other subject as well. Our class had an unwritten rule as to which group of students would do the notes for what class, everything got posted or photocopied &, for the most part, there was no underhanded actions, although there were students that just stood back & waited for the notes w/o contributing anything.....but again the benefit is worth it specially is all your classmates succeed along with you & your school gets a better name.
 
The more you study, the higher the grade. One of the big factors is how much 'break time' you take and how much time is spend talking. Maybe an 'o' is worth it or maybe it's not, it depends on what you want.
 
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The whole "gunner" thing is a basically a childish witch-hunt. It matters in the first few months, and then after that, who cares. I don't think I've heard the word used once in the last 6 months.

I imagine some of the biggest gunners are those actively going out of their way to call other people "gunner".
 
URHere said:
Perhaps the "gunner" comments spring from the fact that we just don't understand why anyone would choose to study so much when they could have other things in their life too and do just as well.
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Yes, but why do you care so much?

You can't be a gunner unless you throw your study habits in someone else's face. When the reverse is happening, and someone else is making your study habits their business, well, I'm not sure what that's called. Maybe there should be an equally pejorative term for that.

FutureInternist said:
Our class had an unwritten rule as to which group of students would do the notes for what class, everything got posted or photocopied &, for the most part, there was no underhanded actions, although there were students that just stood back & waited for the notes w/o contributing anything.....but again the benefit is worth it specially is all your classmates succeed along with you & your school gets a better name.
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I don't get the whole "posting notes" thing. Not that people shouldn't if they want to, but that making the notes is how you learn the material. I wouldn't know what to do with someone else's notes - hell, I rarely read over my own once their done...
 
Sounds like you're at my med school. Don't worry, you either get over it, or get used to it.

Peeps in med school tend to wayyy overestimate how much they think their classmates study, especially the "gunners." Personally I find the label as kind of a kick. Anyone who even makes the most basic effort at getting to know you gets to find out you're a normal, nice, adjusted human being while the others can go on imagining in their minds that you're some inhuman study machine. Here they are, thinking you're slaving away at notes late at night, when you may actually be drinking a Keystone and watching The Pickup Artist 2. (Guilty.) It's like getting credit for work you don't actually do.
 
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digitiminimi23 said:
I know the topic of gunners has been discussed extensively here but I just needed to vent. I've never encountered such a serious, anti-gunner attitude as the one at my West Coast school. Most people here equate wanting to work hard with gunnerism. It's as if there's an unwritten rule here about working too hard. It's like if you get "caught" studying beyond what is needed to pass a course, you're an outcast. I thought being a gunner meant getting ahead by working hard but also in the process DELIBERATELY bringing other people down?! Now, don't get me wrong, I can understand one's frustration and anger at a person who intentionally tries to sabotage his or her classmates, but what if the person simply wants to do his best and has no bad intentions?! Here are a few examples of what it's like at my school (and maybe all other med schools, I'm not sure):

Not totally committed to primary care? You're SUCH a gunner!

You actually want to go into the anatomy lab after hours? You're a gunner!

You bought First Aid for Step 1 during MS1? (although it's been recommended to do so by numerous 3rd years I've talked to) Damn, you're a gunner!

You actually replied EARLY to that email from the professor or club? You're a major gunner!

WTF! [/vent] I feel better now.
Click to expand...
So that commercial on TV about California is true! You know the one with the Governator in it. Who cares what people think, do what you want. If they call you a gunner it's not a big deal, you'll get over it.
 
digitiminimi23 said:
I know the topic of gunners has been discussed extensively here but I just needed to vent. I've never encountered such a serious, anti-gunner attitude as the one at my West Coast school. Most people here equate wanting to work hard with gunnerism. It's as if there's an unwritten rule here about working too hard. It's like if you get "caught" studying beyond what is needed to pass a course, you're an outcast. I thought being a gunner meant getting ahead by working hard but also in the process DELIBERATELY bringing other people down?! Now, don't get me wrong, I can understand one's frustration and anger at a person who intentionally tries to sabotage his or her classmates, but what if the person simply wants to do his best and has no bad intentions?! Here are a few examples of what it's like at my school (and maybe all other med schools, I'm not sure):

Not totally committed to primary care? You're SUCH a gunner!

You actually want to go into the anatomy lab after hours? You're a gunner!

You bought First Aid for Step 1 during MS1? (although it's been recommended to do so by numerous 3rd years I've talked to) Damn, you're a gunner!

You actually replied EARLY to that email from the professor or club? You're a major gunner!

WTF! [/vent] I feel better now.
Click to expand...

If wanting to do well in your coursework gets you the label "gunner" then wear it proudly. Success is great revenge. As long as you are not attempting to undermine others in your class, then you deserve the rewards of your hard work. Does the ramblings of your classmates who do not want to put in the time really make a difference to you? Are you actually interested in getting every tuition dollar's worth of study and learning that you can obtain? This is your career and essentially you get one shot not to "screw up".
 
I agree that it's obnoxious when classmates label their colleages as "gunners" simply because they consistently work hard or outperform others. "Did you hear student X got an A on the exam? She's such a gunner." Or, "I saw student Y in the library for 12 hours last weekend, he's such a gunner." Come on. You know a true gunner when your encounter one. That's entirely different from a hard worker. I respect the high achievers who got there because they worked their butts off, kept quiet about it, and didn't rub the results in your face. Most of us know who the top performers are in our classes, most likely because of secondhand stories from their "friends" who were told something in confidence and can't seem to honor their classmates by keeping their mouths shut about grades and exam scores. In my experience at least, most students who do well don't brag about their performance. I personally think that it is extremely petty and insulting to refer to someone as a gunner simply because of their work ethic or exam scores.
 
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digitiminimi23 said:
I know the topic of gunners has been discussed extensively here but I just needed to vent. I've never encountered such a serious, anti-gunner attitude as the one at my West Coast school. Most people here equate wanting to work hard with gunnerism. It's as if there's an unwritten rule here about working too hard. It's like if you get "caught" studying beyond what is needed to pass a course, you're an outcast. I thought being a gunner meant getting ahead by working hard but also in the process DELIBERATELY bringing other people down?! Now, don't get me wrong, I can understand one's frustration and anger at a person who intentionally tries to sabotage his or her classmates, but what if the person simply wants to do his best and has no bad intentions?! Here are a few examples of what it's like at my school (and maybe all other med schools, I'm not sure):

Not totally committed to primary care? You're SUCH a gunner!

You actually want to go into the anatomy lab after hours? You're a gunner!

You bought First Aid for Step 1 during MS1? (although it's been recommended to do so by numerous 3rd years I've talked to) Damn, you're a gunner!

You actually replied EARLY to that email from the professor or club? You're a major gunner!

WTF! [/vent] I feel better now.
Click to expand...
dude! :eek: Chill! If you can't take a joke, you are definitely a gunner.

People call me a gunner all the time, and I call other people gunners if I see them at the library all the time. This is not meant to put people down, just poking fun at each other
 
Is med school really this high school-ish?
 
LadyWolverine said:
It can be, if you let yourself get caught up in the gossip.
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I plan to keep pretty much to myself besides the occasional group study sessions and "good mornings". :)

I hate gossip, and analyzing the study habits/grades of another student is not going to help me any. :smuggrin:
 
MsKrispyKreme said:
I plan to keep pretty much to myself besides the occasional group study sessions and "good mornings". :)

I hate gossip, and analyzing the study habits/grades of another student is not going to help me any. :smuggrin:
Click to expand...

You'll be labeled a gunner by being anti-social like that. Bank on it.
 
Blah, why easily take offense to it? You know you'll be barraged with more scatching critiques when you when hit clinical rounds and residency - time to develop that thick skin now ;) And by the way, the word "gunner" where I go to school is used in a more facetious manner and by no means condescending :)
 
njbmd said:
If wanting to do well in your coursework gets you the label "gunner" then wear it proudly. Success is great revenge. As long as you are not attempting to undermine others in your class, then you deserve the rewards of your hard work. Does the ramblings of your classmates who do not want to put in the time really make a difference to you? Are you actually interested in getting every tuition dollar's worth of study and learning that you can obtain? This is your career and essentially you get one shot not to "screw up".
Click to expand...

Now that's a gunner statement. You should study hard in medical school because you want to be a good doctor not because you want to prove that your better than everyone else.
 
gunner = cutthroat who tries to win the race by tripping other people
Hence "gunning people down"

gunner does not = hard worker, overahciever, quiet.

The usage of gunner has completely been thrown out the window, now its just a general term that's overused.
 
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mmmcdowe said:
The usage of gunner has completely been thrown out the window, now its just a general term that's overused.
Click to expand...

thank sdn for that.

'course now I just call the true "gunners" @ssholes, and rip them on our professionalism evals.
 
Two options:
1. They are intimidated and think they should be doing the same
2. They are doing the same behind closed doors to look smarter than everyone else

This will end by second year when everyone must do work on average at least 8-10 hrs/day just to pass.
 
PeepshowJohnny said:
I remember how we thought this one guy was the class gunner (in anatomy lab all the time, always asking questions, always seen studying) until we figured out that he was actually struggling and trying to compensate by looking like a stud and it turned out the quiet kid who was never at class was destroying everyone.
Click to expand...

The people who ask the most questions are ALWAYS doing the worst! I don't think they're trying to look good, I just think they need a lot of help.
 
sprinkibrio said:
The people who ask the most questions are ALWAYS doing the worst! I don't think they're trying to look good, I just think they need a lot of help.
Click to expand...

Good point. On the other hand, there are poeple who will hold off asking legitimate questions (that could benefit other people as well) so as not to be mistaken for a gunner. These are the folks you see at the front of the class talking to the instructor for 10 minutes after class is over.
 
Mr hawkings said:
Good point. On the other hand, there are poeple who will hold off asking legitimate questions (that could benefit other people as well) so as not to be mistaken for a gunner. These are the folks you see at the front of the class talking to the instructor for 10 minutes after class is over.
Click to expand...


Or maybe they do it so no one else gets the answer?
 
mmmcdowe said:
gunner = cutthroat who tries to win the race by tripping other people
Hence "gunning people down"

gunner does not = hard worker, overahciever, quiet.

The usage of gunner has completely been thrown out the window, now its just a general term that's overused.
Click to expand...


This is a very accurate post.

Gunners are also typically buddy buddy with faculty/attendings. You see them on their knees after class "asking questions" or being invited to "pharmaceutical dinners" at the attendings house. Whatever it takes to get an A right?

Funny thing is most gunners end up being strongly disliked as residents and faculty. According to my older brother and his partners, the "gunner types" bomb in the private practice world, they end up bouncing from group to group never making partner and end up miserable unless they can change their ways - which for most of them is impossible.
 
It's important to understand the term. It implies malice and sometimes even unethical behavior. As such, I really dislike gunners. There are a few in my class and they will do pretty much anything to stay on top, usually by (directly or indirectly) making you lower. The smoozing is unsightly as well. They know many professors and know how to work them toward their personal advantage (and usually not in your favor, as it turns out). Somehow, sometimes, they are the ones who have the answers to test questions, etc. I try to stay out of their way as much as possible.

That being said, OP, if you are just working hard, ignore those guys calling you, "gunner." They are either kidding around with you or don't fully comprehend the term they are using. Most everyone works hard in medical school, just in different ways.
 
Real gunners are like metastatic cancer. They are determined to grow and spread, regardless of what lies in their path or what they are going to have to destroy.
 
digitiminimi23 said:
I know the topic of gunners has been discussed extensively here but I just needed to vent. I've never encountered such a serious, anti-gunner attitude as the one at my West Coast school. Most people here equate wanting to work hard with gunnerism. It's as if there's an unwritten rule here about working too hard. It's like if you get "caught" studying beyond what is needed to pass a course, you're an outcast. I thought being a gunner meant getting ahead by working hard but also in the process DELIBERATELY bringing other people down?! Now, don't get me wrong, I can understand one's frustration and anger at a person who intentionally tries to sabotage his or her classmates, but what if the person simply wants to do his best and has no bad intentions?! Here are a few examples of what it's like at my school (and maybe all other med schools, I'm not sure):

Not totally committed to primary care? You're SUCH a gunner!

You actually want to go into the anatomy lab after hours? You're a gunner!

You bought First Aid for Step 1 during MS1? (although it's been recommended to do so by numerous 3rd years I've talked to) Damn, you're a gunner!

You actually replied EARLY to that email from the professor or club? You're a major gunner!

WTF! [/vent] I feel better now.
Click to expand...

Dude, you have not seen gunning yet until you see this guy I know who finished First AID before starting medschool. He also had q-bank subscription before starting medical school.
 
spicedmanna said:
It's important to understand the term. It implies malice and sometimes even unethical behavior. As such, I really dislike gunners. There are a few in my class and they will do pretty much anything to stay on top, usually by (directly or indirectly) making you lower. The smoozing is unsightly as well. They know many professors and know how to work them toward their personal advantage (and usually not in your favor, as it turns out). Somehow, sometimes, they are the ones who have the answers to test questions, etc. I try to stay out of their way as much as possible.

That being said, OP, if you are just working hard, ignore those guys calling you, "gunner." They are either kidding around with you or don't fully comprehend the term they are using. Most everyone works hard in medical school, just in different ways.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Gunners are not folks who work hard and do well. They aren't the folks who study stuff like First Aid early. And they aren't folks who are chummy with faculty or the teachers pet. And they aren't the folks who sit in the front row (because if you are in front of everybody you cannot see what they are studying/working on -- it's a competitive disadvantage). A gunner is someone who tries to get ahead by trying to step on others. He's the guy who asks you that impossible question during your presentation to make you look bad. He's the guy who volunteers you to take a patient because you haven't had one with X condition yet. He's the one who checks the charts and reads up on your patients in addition to his own, hoping he can show you up and make himself look more prepared. He's the guy who always brags about how little studying he does just to make it seem more effortless for him. In law school we had a guy who used to tear pages out of library books on reserve so that nobody else could finish the assignment. In med school it's much more subtle, but there are gunners here and there.

It does not mean someone who merely works hard and does well, or someone who is smart or diligent. Folks who use this label on such people are bastardizing the term. Sort of like calling someone you disagree with a fascist. It's pejorative, not definitional usage. If however they call you a gunner, and you are one, you are a bad gunner. Because for someone to actually accomplish a gunner's goals they generally want to maintain lower visibility.
 
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digitiminimi23 said:
I know the topic of gunners has been discussed extensively here but I just needed to vent. I've never encountered such a serious, anti-gunner attitude as the one at my West Coast school.
Click to expand...

Who cares what they think? Just work hard, keep focused on why you are there, and ignore both the gunners and anti-gunners.
 
mmmcdowe said:
gunner = cutthroat who tries to win the race by tripping other people
Hence "gunning people down"

gunner does not = hard worker, overahciever, quiet.

The usage of gunner has completely been thrown out the window, now its just a general term that's overused.
Click to expand...

Just re-emphasizing this so everyone gets the point. You must mow people over in the process for that Honors grade, rather than just merely work hard.

And the real gunning don't start 'till you get to 3rd year.
 
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MSKalltheway said:
Just re-emphasizing this so everyone gets the point. You must mow people over in the process for that Honors grade, rather than just merely work hard.

And the real gunning don't start 'till you get to 3rd year.
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So you're saying to get honors, you have to give people wrong answers, hide books in the library, and sabotage people in any way to be Honors? I disagree, though I'm sure it does happen. Lets face it, some people work harder and are just plain smarter than the rest of us. We all think we're God's gift to the intellectual community and the only reason we didn't get a 45 on the MCAT is because we didn't fall asleep fast enough the night before, but some people are just better at academics or at clinical work.
 
mmmcdowe said:
So you're saying to get honors, you have to give people wrong answers, hide books in the library, and sabotage people in any way to be Honors? I disagree, though I'm sure it does happen. Lets face it, some people work harder and are just plain smarter than the rest of us. We all think we're God's gift to the intellectual community and the only reason we didn't get a 45 on the MCAT is because we didn't fall asleep fast enough the night before, but some people are just better at academics or at clinical work.
Click to expand...

I'm going to assume you didn't get a 15 on the MCAT verbal reasoning with that response.
 
Don't worry about everyone else. Just laugh it off and do your thing. Ask a couple of really dumb questions every now and then, and eventually you get in their comfort zone (off the radar)...then when they least expect it - click click BOOM hahaha :smuggrin:

(kidding of course) - moral of the story = who gives a f*** about everyone else, do your own thing.
 
sprinkibrio said:
The people who ask the most questions are ALWAYS doing the worst! I don't think they're trying to look good, I just think they need a lot of help.
Click to expand...

It depends on the type of question... I have classmate who ask questions like "What does blah, blah, blah mean?" or "How can you tell the difference between X and Y?" I don't think of those people who are doing particularly bad or good- they're just people humble enough to ask a question when they're confused...

Other classmates ask questions that would qualify as "dumb questions" if not for the fact that "there is no such thing as a dumb question." I always wonder whether those people genuinely aren't that bright or just weren't paying much attention...

The only group that bothers me are those that ask questions like "But, professor, wasn't there one study in 1998 where it showed that X really was a superior treatment to Y?" Or "Can't you also get .... rare disease in patients with .... rare genetic defect? I was reading a paper about that in NEJM in my spare time..." Most of that group tends to be extremely intelligent, but they are the ones that I would consider "gunners". They already know the answer; they just want to show off...
 
mmmcdowe said:
So you're saying to get honors, you have to give people wrong answers, hide books in the library, and sabotage people in any way to be Honors?
Click to expand...

No, he's saying that you have to be doing these things in your road to honors to actually earn the label of a gunner. ie a gunner is a pejorative term -- someone who gets ahead by others falling underfoot.
 
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All in all, i would say being a gunner is much better than being someone that does poorly and gets kicked out
 
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