2012 APPIC Internship Application Thread

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Someone mentioned earlier that we could include interview travel as tax deductible if we are taking an itemized deduction rather than a standard deduction. What "category" does interview travel count under, as for why we can deduct it? Does it fall under job search expenses, education expenses, or business travel expenses?
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Dewe said:
Someone mentioned earlier that we could include interview travel as tax deductible if we are taking an itemized deduction rather than a standard deduction. What "category" does interview travel count under, as for why we can deduct it? Does it fall under job search expenses, education expenses, or business travel expenses?
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If you do the turbotax way it's there. I was too lazy to itemize and it said work related expenses not school so I didn't do it. But maybe there is another place you put it. Anyone?
 
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Just completed that APPIC survey. Trying to get my blood pressure back down to normal now ;)
 
4410 said:
Someone has indicated that a number of sites do not select in phase I but engage in a process described as "Cherry Picking" in phase II or after phase II since there are a number of top candidates who do not match in phase I.
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Why on earth would a site go to Phase II if they didn't have to? Yes, there are plenty of strong applicants who do not match in Phase I, but I'd bet that the ratio of strong applicants in the pool is much lower in Phase II. Plus, in Phase I, applicants have many more sites to choose from, so I'd guess that the ones who do decide apply to a given site are much more likely to actually be interested. With fewer options in Phase II, it seems like people often end up applying to at least a few places that they wouldn't have been interested in for Phase I, just because that's what's left.

From the APPIC standpoint, a site that accepts applications for Phase I with no intention of ranking anyone would be extremely problematic, given that it costs money to apply. If that site is actually interviewing people (thus requiring them to spend $ to travel) with no intention of ranking them, I would think that the APA would also have some serious concerns.

This makes no sense to me.
 
psychRA said:
Why on earth would a site go to Phase II if they didn't have to? Yes, there are plenty of strong applicants who do not match in Phase I, but I'd bet that the ratio of strong applicants in the pool is much lower in Phase II. Plus, in Phase I, applicants have many more sites to choose from, so I'd guess that the ones who do decide apply to a given site are much more likely to actually be interested. With fewer options in Phase II, it seems like people often end up applying to at least a few places that they wouldn't have been interested in for Phase I, just because that's what's left.

From the APPIC standpoint, a site that accepts applications for Phase I with no intention of ranking anyone would be extremely problematic, given that it costs money to apply. If that site is actually interviewing people (thus requiring them to spend $ to travel) with no intention of ranking them, I would think that the APA would also have some serious concerns.

This makes no sense to me.
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You're right, it doesn't make sense. It probably (aka almost certainly) doesn't happen, despite 4410's statements. But I just wanted to point out that the ratio of strong applicants in the pool in Phase II is probably about the same. If you assume that "top sites" interview and rank "top applicants" and "lesser sites" interview and rank "lesser applicants" (I don't buy these labels at all, hence the quotation marks), assuming that the "top applicants" will go elsewhere, you end up with the same ratio of "top applicants" unmatched as "lesser applicants" unmatched. Some great people get screwed in Phase I and end up in Phase II, just like some all right people (such as myself) get screwed in Phase I and end up in Phase II. I think you're right about the "dedication" of applicants in Phase II to any given site... It's a more desperate situation for both sites and applicants, so it's less likely that an applicant just overlooked their "perfect" site in Phase I only to discover it/them in Phase II.

Anyone else enjoying the wacky weather? It's >80F here. March.
 
psychRA said:
Why on earth would a site go to Phase II if they didn't have to? Yes, there are plenty of strong applicants who do not match in Phase I, but I'd bet that the ratio of strong applicants in the pool is much lower in Phase II. Plus, in Phase I, applicants have many more sites to choose from, so I'd guess that the ones who do decide apply to a given site are much more likely to actually be interested. With fewer options in Phase II, it seems like people often end up applying to at least a few places that they wouldn't have been interested in for Phase I, just because that's what's left.

From the APPIC standpoint, a site that accepts applications for Phase I with no intention of ranking anyone would be extremely problematic, given that it costs money to apply. If that site is actually interviewing people (thus requiring them to spend $ to travel) with no intention of ranking them, I would think that the APA would also have some serious concerns.

This makes no sense to me.
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I agree and I don't endorse this practice. However, I did apply to three sites in phase I who are in phase II with the same amount of openings so they did not select anyone in phase I. One of the sites actually emailed the night before the ranking that they had decided not to rank applicants for phase I and for me not to rank them in phase I because they were not ranking in phase I. They indicated if I did not match in phase I that I would be able to rank them in phase II. Well, I did match in phase I so I am not involved with phase II. This was a very attractive site thirty miles from where I live that paid twice as much as the internship site I was selected for the phase I match. If they had not emailed me that night they would have been my #1 rank but instead I moved my #2 rank to my #1 rank and this is the site where I matched. Had I left them as my #1 site and they did not rank me it could have resulted in my not being selected in phase I. The rational for sites waiting until phase II is that they know more about funding options as they have another month to determine how many applicants they may select. Some of the phase II sites have opened up additional slots since they know more about their funding.

Related to quality of applicants across the board at this level of training you will not find major difference between applicants in phase I or phase II. Most of us have stellar applications and training and normally the difference among those who are selected versus not selected are very minor.
 
4410 said:
If they had not emailed me that night they would have been my #1 rank but instead I moved my #2 rank to my #1 rank and this is the site where I matched. Had I left them as my #1 site and they did not rank me it could have resulted in my not being selected in phase I.
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FYI, from the Match FAQ:

QUESTION: I wasn't matched at all, and now I'm wondering if the order in which I ranked my programs had something to do with my not being matched. Is this possible?

ANSWER: No, the order in which you ranked your programs did not result in your being unmatched. If you did not match, you would have been unmatched regardless of the order in which you submitted your rankings. Changing the order of the programs on your Rank Order List only affects where you will be matched, not whether or not you will be matched.

http://www.appic.org/Match/FAQs/Applicants/Matching-Process-and-Results
I honestly have such a hard time comprehending this, but that's what they claim!
 
4410 said:
I agree and I don't endorse this practice. However, I did apply to three sites in phase I who are in phase II with the same amount of openings so they did not select anyone in phase I. One of the sites actually emailed the night before the ranking that they had decided not to rank applicants for phase I and for me not to rank them in phase I because they were not ranking in phase I. They indicated if I did not match in phase I that I would be able to rank them in phase II. Well, I did match in phase I so I am not involved with phase II. This was a very attractive site thirty miles from where I live that paid twice as much as the internship site I was selected for the phase I match. If they had not emailed me that night they would have been my #1 rank but instead I moved my #2 rank to my #1 rank and this is the site where I matched. Had I left them as my #1 site and they did not rank me it could have resulted in my not being selected in phase I. The rational for sites waiting until phase II is that they know more about funding options as they have another month to determine how many applicants they may select. Some of the phase II sites have opened up additional slots since they know more about their funding.

Related to quality of applicants across the board at this level of training you will not find major difference between applicants in phase I or phase II. Most of us have stellar applications and training and normally the difference among those who are selected versus not selected are very minor.
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I agree that very well-qualified applicants participate in both phases of the match, and I also agree that sometimes the difference between a selected and not-selected applicant can be somewhat trivial (particularly between the # 1 and the #2 or #3-ranked applicant at a site).

However, I've heard from multiple internship training directors that there are very real and discernible differences in the quality of applicants they see. That is, not all applicants are created equal. And the wide variance in objective characteristics of said applicants (e.g., number of clinical hours, number and variety of administered assessment measures, number of publications and presentations) support this view.

Regarding your other point, as the poster above me mentioned, even if you had ranked that site #1, based on the algorithm that NMS uses, this shouldn't have affected your chances at matching at your #2 site. Basically, as soon as the computer saw that the #1 site had no slots, they would've matched you to #2, and you would've bumped out anyone else already there whom you were ranked higher than (just as they would've bumped you had they been ranked more highly).

I've heard one faculty member at a site where I worked mention when they participated in the match, they'd heard that your chances of getting a site decreased significantly if you weren't ranked by your #1 site choice. However, I've never been able to find any information that supports this, and it goes against everything APPIC and NMS say about the matching algorithm. NMS are the only ones who absolutely know the full specifics, but I'm thinking what I heard might've been a misinterpretation of a variety of stats (including the proportion of individuals who match at their #1 vs. their #2, etc.) that has been erroneously perpetuated over the years.

Overall, though, I think it's fairly sheisty that the site mentioned they weren't ranking anyone after having already conducted interviews. By them saying you could rank them in Phase II, it sounds like funding wasn't the primary motivating factor behind that decision.
 
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4410 said:
If they had not emailed me that night they would have been my #1 rank but instead I moved my #2 rank to my #1 rank and this is the site where I matched. Had I left them as my #1 site and they did not rank me it could have resulted in my not being selected in phase I.
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Please stop spreading misinformation....yet again. As noted above, your ranking DOES NOT effect whether or not you match, it only matters WHERE you match.

4410 said:
Related to quality of applicants across the board at this level of training you will not find major difference between applicants in phase I or phase II. Most of us have stellar applications and training and normally the difference among those who are selected versus not selected are very minor.
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I feel like I need to post this every time you make a completely unsubstantiated statement masquerading as a fact. Please stop doing this.
 
Dewe said:
Someone mentioned earlier that we could include interview travel as tax deductible if we are taking an itemized deduction rather than a standard deduction. What "category" does interview travel count under, as for why we can deduct it? Does it fall under job search expenses, education expenses, or business travel expenses?
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It goes under job search.
 
Just wanted to say best of luck to all of you taking part in Phase II. Fingers crossed for a good outcome!!
 
Anyone know what time the emails went out last year? I know it says by 10 like in Phase I, but I got my email around 8:20 am EST for Phase I.
 
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TuTuPsychL said:
Anyone know what time the emails went out last year? I know it says by 10 like in Phase I, but I got my email around 8:20 am EST for Phase I.
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looks like last year it was like 10 til 9 edt
 
Therapist4Chnge said:
Please stop spreading misinformation....yet again. As noted above, your ranking DOES NOT effect whether or not you match, it only matters WHERE you match.



wikipedian_protester.png


I feel like I need to post this every time you make a completely unsubstantiated statement masquerading as a fact. Please stop doing this.
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I ended up ranking four sites, two that I interviewed with and two that I had not interviewed with as one does not do interviews and one only had a week before the ranking date as they had just been approved for four slots. The two sites that I interviewed with had matches for three and two slots but the other two sites I did not interview with had 4 slots and 2 slots move into phase II. The site that withdrew from phase I at the last minute has two slots open for phase II. Essentially, my take is that the three sites did not send in any ranking and the two sites I interviewed with participated in the ranking. I know the two students who were selected at the site that I had ranked #2 and they both had that site ranked #1 as it is close to where we all live. I originally had that site as #1 but decided to reverse my #1 and #2 sites the night that rankings were due. My guess is if I had not reversed them that I may have not matched since other students had that site as their #1 site.

Subjectivity comes into play when referring to the quality of phase I and phase II candidates. There may be some individual differences but academically most people in a doctoral program are above the 75% if you look at us in bell shaped curve mentality. Internship directors opinions are subjective as well and not necessarily based in fact. There are bias as some sites have all PsyD interns and others have all PhD interns. Clearly, there is much more to quality of interns above and beyond their PhD or PsyD degree or APA versus non APA accredited. Bias and stereotypes works both ways as some sites actually or usually select students from PsyD and non APA accredited programs. The majority of independent practice psychologist do not even belong to APA and don't want to have anything to do with APA, so they have no interest in whether the intern is from an APA or a non APA accredited program.
 
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TuTuPsychL said:
Anyone know what time the emails went out last year? I know it says by 10 like in Phase I, but I got my email around 8:20 am EST for Phase I.
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Yeah, it was about the same time as Phase I, give or take 15 minutes. Earlier in this thread I posted the exact time but I don't remember it. :p

Good luck everyone! :luck:
 
PreMatcher said:
Just completed that APPIC survey. Trying to get my blood pressure back down to normal now ;)
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this. so angry with the APA.

good luck to all in phase II -- crossing my fingers for everyone and looking forward to hearing the news on monday!
 
TuTuPsychL said:
Anyone know what time the emails went out last year? I know it says by 10 like in Phase I, but I got my email around 8:20 am EST for Phase I.
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FWIW, I received my e-mail at 8:41am. I matched and my last name is very early in the alphabet (no idea what the order is for e-mails but I figured I'd throw it out there just in case). For Phase I, I got my e-mail at 8:35. It seemed like I was one of the first to get an e-mail in both rounds based on postings here and when my classmates got theirs in phase I.
 
I figured no need to rush things as I did not want to somehow jinx myself. I checked my email at 11:00 am as I was busy at practicum that morning from 8:00 am to to 11:00 am seeing three patients. I figured checking early or late would not matter as I was not expecting to Match so I was certainly surprised when I did match. Good luck everyone...Match should be easier than winning the Power Ball!!! :)
 
Good luck all. Here is hoping the nightmare is over!
 
layleh said:
Good luck all. Here is hoping the nightmare is over!
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speaking of nightmares, just had a dream i matched in a place i never applied to and had no interest in going. sadly, i was just happy i matched.
 
psychotrainer said:
speaking of nightmares, just had a dream i matched in a place i never applied to and had no interest in going. sadly, i was just happy i matched.
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Oddly, I dreamt that I matched in Taiwan.

Anyway, it's now later than when I got my Phase I email.
 
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Just got the email....one nightmare is over I suppose, but didn't match (didn't think I would). Second nightmare begins.
 
Matched at my 4th choice...an APPIC site...but at this point, I am ready to move on with my life.
 
TuTuPsychL said:
Just got the email....one nightmare is over I suppose, but didn't match (didn't think I would). Second nightmare begins.
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Same - no match. Going to non APA site rather than deal with this utter insanity for another year.
 
No match. I think my hopes were highest this time around because the only place that I had a real chance paid $8.50 an hour to do in home therapy, alone, with clients/families with histories of abuse and neglect. Shouldn't they be desperate to fill that slot? But apparently, someone better suited for such a position is matched this morning.

At least now I get to move on from this ridiculous field, start a family, and start being valued again. :hardy:

Good luck with life everyone! :luck:
 
Duck Duck Goose said:
No match. I think my hopes were highest this time around because the only place that I had a real chance paid $8.50 an hour to do in home therapy, alone, with clients/families with histories of abuse and neglect. Shouldn't they be desperate to fill that slot? But apparently, someone better suited for such a position is matched this morning.

At least now I get to move on from this ridiculous field, start a family, and start being valued again. :hardy:

Good luck with life everyone! :luck:
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Incredibly sorry to hear the outcome. Best of luck to you; it's incessantly frustrating/aggravating to see the very real adverse effects the imbalance has on us all, particularly at this late a point in our training.
 
What's helpful to say to someone who hasn't matched? Does anyone have thoughts?
 
No match, not surprised. Done for this year, lined up a great practicum for next year and will do some extra testing this summer. Try again next year. Sucks.
 
moneyphd said:
What's helpful to say to someone who hasn't matched? Does anyone have thoughts?
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"I'm sorry. Is there anything I can do? It sucks." don't be über positive, your friend will recognize you're trying to cheer them but will feel like they have to console you. And then just be there, present.
 
Greg K sent out an email this morning--184 of the 222 slots matched so there are still 38 slot left for 1283 who did not match in phase I or phase II. 71% matched and 29% did not match in phase I or II. He focuses on the severe shortage of internship sites but there are no easy solutions.
 
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4410 said:
Greg K sent out an email this morning--184 of the 222 slots matched so there are still 38 slot left for 1400 who did not match in phase 1 or phase II.
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This is what you do NOT say to someone who hasn't matched. Saying there are still 38 slots left for 1400 people..great!!! Odds are definitely in our favor!
 
layleh said:
Matched at my 4th choice...an APPIC site...but at this point, I am ready to move on with my life.
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Congratulations!! I am in a similar boat...I matched at my 3rd choice, also an APPIC site, but not APA, but I am very thankful for it, nonetheless. I am really sorry for the others that did not match. I know it is easy for me to say, but do not give up, people! This is my fourth time trying, and I finally got some good news. :thumbup:
 
TuTuPsychL said:
This is what you do NOT say to someone who hasn't matched. Saying there are still 38 slots left for 1400 people..great!!! Odds are definitely in our favor!
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Dr. K is just reporting the stats, try not to shoot the messenger. If you haven't already, I'd encourage you to sign the Internship Imbalance petition: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/psychology-internship/ as well as join the Facebook Group (search Occupy The Imbalance). Lastly, I'd encourage you to be active with the facebook group, as we are trying to do a number of position things to further our efforts:
-Try and get ECP (early career psychologists) onto APA boards
-Gain greater visibility at the grad student level by getting supportive buy-in from existing leadership.
-Develop an on-going dialogue with the various boards of the APA to discuss the imbalance issue.
-Reach out to each APA division and try and build support. We have gotten a pretty positive response thus far, and we hope to gain more support before the APA Convention in August.
 
LMK said:
No match, not surprised. Done for this year, lined up a great practicum for next year and will do some extra testing this summer. Try again next year. Sucks.
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Sorry to hear LMK, I am in the same boat, although I withdrew from APPIC II so I didn't even have a shot at a match this morning. I am starting the job hunt and getting an excellent practicum set up to help round out my skills. Also, I am going to start sending out emails to TDs to get advice about how to make my application stronger. It definitely sucks, having to wait a whole other year and delay graduation/career. Let's just hope that next year, with the extra experience, we will land awesome internships!
 
Therapist4Chnge said:
Dr. K is just reporting the stats, try not to shoot the messenger.
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The poster was responding to 4410's post, not the message from Dr. K. Giving the stats is one thing, conveying them misleadingly is another. (From me, a bitter person who will soon no longer belong on this site.)
 
Do we have to contact the site where I matched or do they contact me?
 
eudaimonPsyD said:
Sorry to hear LMK, I am in the same boat, although I withdrew from APPIC II so I didn't even have a shot at a match this morning. I am starting the job hunt and getting an excellent practicum set up !
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Thanks everyone! Sorry for all of us who have to go through it again. I was a third year, so my hours were lower than the competition. I had emailed TDs prior to submitting apps for phase one regarding my hours and my related experience, they said to apply but I didn't get interviews. The greater number of applicants at sites in phase 1 probably greatly influenced that. Feedback was that my hours were too low in comparison to peers, hard to argue with that.

The silver lining is that I lined up a great health psych practicum at a place that doesn't usually take students from my school, they had a late spot for advanced due to some goofy changes in the practicum process in my area.

So I'll take some extra classes, try to publish my dissertation, get some great training, and grieve the loss of the Air Force.
 
45678 said:
Do we have to contact the site where I matched or do they contact me?
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You are suppose to call them after 11:00 am. The program I attend a PsyD non APA accredited program did very well this year with the APPIC Match. I just spoke to one of the faculty this morning and everyone who applied in phase I and II matched today, so they are all very happy. Normally we have around an 80% Match rate but some local sites opened up additional slots during phase II this year that really helped out. Rarely if ever do we match with APA accredited sites and this is true for this year as non of us matched with APA accredited sites. Now if we could just get every site to add one additional slot this year, probably everyone who applied would be Matched.

The statistics from Greg K that I indicated were approximations from an early email and he has since sent out more specific emails indicated that it is closer to 600 of those who applied that did not withdraw that are not matched with a site.
 
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The stats seem to include "accredited sites" which I assume are both APA and CAPPIC. Does anyone know the breakdown as to how many applicants were matched to APA accredited sites?
 
brazenhead said:
The stats seem to include "accredited sites" which I assume are both APA and CAPPIC. Does anyone know the breakdown as to how many applicants were matched to APA accredited sites?
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I believe the most recently released stats (e-mail at 1:02pm today) listed APA/CPA acred. sites as matching 100% between Phase I & Phase II. I cannot speak to CAPIC, as they have/had a different match. As for APPIC...not sure they split those numbers out....though I admittedly didn't look closely at the #'s. APPIC is not tech. an acred. standard, so I think the APA/CPA is going to be the most representative of 'acred sites'.
 
TuTuPsychL said:
This is what you do NOT say to someone who hasn't matched. Saying there are still 38 slots left for 1400 people..great!!! Odds are definitely in our favor!
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Sorry, this totally made me think of Hunger Games and laugh "...and may the odds be ever in your favor!" lol....
 
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