2017-2018 Duke-NUS Graduate Medical School Application

[proteinworker]

I have some seniors in Duke-NUS who told me that there are students who drop out in their classes, but it is at most 1 or 2 in their individual cohort for the whole 4 years. Furthermore, some of them dropped out willingly as they realized that medicine is not what they want after all. Someone also dropped out due to poor English (since a good TOEFL score doesn't equate to good English ability).

Did your seniors tell you about how easy to get residency of interest after graduation? Is it easy to pass internship(first year residency) for Duke NUS students, particularly MD PhD students?

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[DrArGu]

Pardon me for asking this. Your gpa is on a scale of 4?

If you intend to appeal, what additional thing are you planning to provide to the adcom? If I'm not wrong, duke-nus did mention that you need to provide new stats for them to reconsider their decision. Additional Rec letters aren't very useful.

Yes, on a scale of 4.
I am considering to appeal with an improved MCAT score since that's pretty much the only thing I can achieve at the moment. Also research publication but that depends on luck and is not gonna happen in a near future.

 

[Enerrior]

Yes, on a scale of 4.
I am considering to appeal with an improved MCAT score since that's pretty much the only thing I can achieve at the moment. Also research publication but that depends on luck and is not gonna happen in a near future.

I see. Your grades and mcat are quite alright. When i got my mcat score (which is way lower than yours btw), i just focus on building up the rest of my portfolio (shadowing, volunteer etc). Maybe you want to look at improving the rest of your portfolio?

But yea within such a short time frame, MCAT is the only way for an appeal. You have an upcoming MCAT exam? FYI, it has to be taken before april (MD and MD-PhD Appeal Process | Duke-NUS Medical School). All the best for your exam and application.

 

[Pika123]

Did your seniors tell you about how easy to get residency of interest after graduation? Is it easy to pass internship(first year residency) for Duke NUS students, particularly MD PhD students?

At least at the Durham applicant day there was definitely a lot of talking that there is currently an oversupply of specialists in Singapore. Adding fuel to the fire, there is a great need for primary care doctors at the junior level due to an aging population, so the ministry is increasing the size of each med school cohort (something like DUKE-NUS going up to 100 ppls per year, NTU med school going to 300 ...etc (forgot about the exact NTU and YLL number). It would be easy to secure a medical officer position and follow Singapore's resident physician route. But competition for popular residencies like surgery...etc for recent graduates will be extremely fierce, more so when having to compete with more mature medical officers who had already worked in the department, know the people etc. Like this year they only allow new graduates to apply for IM, Radiology and two others listed on the MOH website. Gynecology and IM seem to be the only options beside simply shuffled a medical officer position.

 

[Lazy Surgeon]

At least at the Durham applicant day there was definitely a lot of talking that there is currently an oversupply of specialists in Singapore. Adding fuel to the fire, there is a great need for primary care doctors at the junior level due to an aging population, so the ministry is increasing the size of each med school cohort (something like DUKE-NUS going up to 100 ppls per year, NTU med school going to 300 ...etc (forgot about the exact NTU and YLL number). It would be easy to secure a medical officer position and follow Singapore's resident physician route. But competition for popular residencies like surgery...etc for recent graduates will be extremely fierce, more so when having to compete with more mature medical officers who had already worked in the department, know the people etc. Like this year they only allow new graduates to apply for IM, Radiology and two others listed on the MOH website. Gynecology and IM seem to be the only options beside simply shuffled a medical officer position.

@Pika123 Don't specialist residency programs primarily look at the applicant's licensing exam scores, tho? So, if you study hard and score high, you'll have all the chances.

 

[Pika123]

You should google search the Singapore's Ministry of Health site about residency. They go in depth into how exactly the game is played.


It's definitely a holistic review of MMI, LoR, grades, and everything. Marks just one of the many factors.

 

[Lazy Surgeon]

You should google search the Singapore's Ministry of Health site about residency. They go in depth into how exactly the game is played.


It's definitely a holistic review of MMI, LoR, grades, and everything. Marks just one of the many factors.

Honestly, according to multiple Professionals from my School, other American schools and some European Specialists, at that level, the most important selection factors are licensing and school scores. MMIs, board interviews and LORs are there to ensure that you are interested in a speciality.

 

[Pika123]

Honestly, according to multiple Professionals from my School, other American schools and some European Specialists, at that level, the most important selection factors are licensing and school scores. MMIs, board interviews and LORs are there to ensure that you are interested in a speciality.

When I used the term "specialist", I referred to the immediate residency training after graduation, not fellowship.
Within this framework, I have to respectfully disagree with the above statement. If anything, because of the sheer size of applicant pool and positions available (say in the US), scores have to be used as a cut-off. Therefore, a good score can (or licensing) certainly help a lot, but it cannot be "the most important selection factor."

If true, then there wouldn't be so many students doing internships away from their home institutions trying to build those connections.

In small country like Singapore, experience in the clinics matters even more. Med school scores/Step1 and actual clinical practice are completely different things. You can ask a stellar fresh graduate top grades and everything to manage a patient, and he will kill the patient. You select someone who you have worked with and know will do well.

But in all cases, if you been to the Singaporean education system, you know how disciplined/smart people are. Everyone will have good score, and in that case you move beyond the superficial and consider other factors.

 

[Lazy Surgeon]

When I used the term "specialist", I referred to the immediate residency training after graduation, not fellowship.
Within this framework, I have to respectfully disagree with the above statement. If anything, because of the sheer size of applicant pool and positions available (say in the US), scores have to be used as a cut-off. Therefore, a good score can (or licensing) certainly help a lot, but it cannot be "the most important selection factor."

If true, then there wouldn't be so many students doing internships away from their home institutions trying to build those connections.

In small country like Singapore, experience in the clinics matters even more. Med school scores/Step1 and actual clinical practice are completely different things. You can ask a stellar fresh graduate top grades and everything to manage a patient, and he will kill the patient. You select someone who you have worked with and know will do well.

But in all cases, if you been to the Singaporean education system, you know how disciplined/smart people are. Everyone will have good score, and in that case you move beyond the superficial and consider other factors.

Great response! Thank you!

 

[proteinworker]

At least at the Durham applicant day there was definitely a lot of talking that there is currently an oversupply of specialists in Singapore. Adding fuel to the fire, there is a great need for primary care doctors at the junior level due to an aging population

If new medical graduates get stuck at the junior level, they may not be able to pay off study loan in a short time. So, it is really risky to take a study loan to study at Duke NUS. Possibly it is better to study in Taiwan or China. Some even offer full scholarships. BUT you must make sure you can self study, get enough training there and get recognised postgrad qualifications.

Actually it may be easier to enter Duke NUS through MD PhD pathway.The program is less appealing compared to that of US medical schools. MD PhD program of US medical schools cover both tuition fees and living allowance of both medical and graduate phase.No service agreement is required.

 

[Pika123]

@proteinworker
There are postgraduate programs in China/Taiwan offering full scholarships?

 

[proteinworker]

Not postgrad. You have to study for at least 5 years. You can google search China Government Scholarship. No service bond. You have to be reasonably good at Chinese language and be able to tolerate air pollution, though.

Things will become more and more expensive in Singapore with an increase in GST. Also, the interest rate of loan may also increase. It is really risky to take a study loan to study medicine.

It depends on applicants themselves. A huge debt or unrecognized medical degree, which is riskier? Of course, if you choose to work in China , recognition is not a problem.

 

[lifeisabtlearning]

Not postgrad. You have to study for at least 5 years. You can google search China Government Scholarship. No service bond. You have to be reasonably good at Chinese language and be able to tolerate air pollution, though.

Things will become more and more expensive in Singapore with an increase in GST. Also, the interest rate of loan may also increase. It is really risky to take a study loan to study medicine.

It depends on applicants themselves. A huge debt or unrecognized medical degree, which is riskier? Of course, if you choose to work in China , recognition is not a problem.

Do you really think those who applied for DUKE/NUS weren't aware of the fees?

Your premise that one should opt for MD/PhD just to get a scholarship and that the program would be an easier choice of entry is a flimsy comment to make. This is not an economic hub that plays with the rule of demand. If it was so easy, why haven't you enter the program yet? Financial burden would be crippling on us, yes; but to make a 7 year commitment is not easy. Any PhD student would be able to vouch on the stress/sleepless nights/mental/psychological torture hurdling out from the program.

Of course, of all places you'd recommended China. Let us not forget, great doctors are made by entering good med schools (some aspects of it).

I'd say, every loan you take--- would be worth the investment if you enter a good medical school.

 

[proteinworker]

Do you really think those who applied for DUKE/NUS weren't aware of the fees?

Your premise that one should opt for MD/PhD just to get a scholarship and that the program would be an easier choice of entry is a flimsy comment to make. This is not an economic hub that plays with the rule of demand. If it was so easy, why haven't you enter the program yet? Financial burden would be crippling on us, yes; but to make a 7 year commitment is not easy. Any PhD student would be able to vouch on the stress/sleepless nights/mental/psychological torture hurdling out from the program.

Of course, of all places you'd recommended China. Let us not forget, great doctors are made by entering good med schools (some aspects of it).

I'd say, every loan you take--- would be worth the investment if you enter a good medical school.

Sure, they were.

In the beginning, Duke NUS MD PhD students still have to tackle first 2 years of medical school tuition fees and cost of living.This fact is quite depressing.

Do you think NUS is a good school? Many NUS professors and PhD students graduated in China.They may not even have any study loan.

Actually what you learn in medical school is roughly the same everywhere.

Just to share some information and opinion though I realize that kindness does not always beget kindness.

 

[lifeisabtlearning]

Sure, they were.

In the beginning, Duke NUS MD PhD students still have to tackle first 2 years of medical school tuition fees and cost of living.This fact is quite depressing.

Do you think NUS is a good school? Many NUS professors and PhD students graduated in China.They may not even have any study loan.

Actually what you learn in medical school is roughly the same everywhere.

Just to share some information and opinion though I realize that kindness does not always beget kindness.

Med school curriculum is entirely different in each geographical context, especially in countries where English is not spoken as a first language. Medicine is very much a skill, any prototypical mimic renders the same outcome. I am not saying graduates from such countries are not good. Ultimately, it really depends on what you opt to do in the future. Most of the lecturer you have said in NUS, are not practicing medicine; they are merely academics. Do anyone enters med school in hope to just be an academic one day? Do you not want to practice?

I am sorry, that my reply came out too bluntly. But I have seen your previous threads and it seem like you have nothing good to say about Sg or DUKE-NUS for that matter. Pretty inconsistent for someone to be interested of a sch but yet condemn and belittle its system.

As per MD/PhD entry requirements or on the difficulty of getting a seat, I'll suggest you to do some literature search on some retrospective studies that have been done by some Uni or data by AAMC.

 

[Lazy Surgeon]

Med school curriculum is entirely different in each geographical context, especially in countries where English is not spoken as a first language. Medicine is very much a skill, any prototypical mimic renders the same outcome. I am not saying graduates from such countries are not good. Ultimately, it really depends on what you opt to do in the future. Most of the lecturer you have said in NUS, are not practicing medicine; they are merely academics. Do anyone enters med school in hope to just be an academic one day? Do you not want to practice?

I am sorry, that my reply came out too bluntly. But I have seen your previous threads and it seem like you have nothing good to say about Sg or DUKE-NUS for that matter. Pretty inconsistent for someone to be interested of a sch but yet condemn and belittle its system.

As per MD/PhD entry requirements or on the difficulty of getting a seat, I'll suggest you to do some literature search on some retrospective studies that have been done by some Uni or data by AAMC.

I agree that medical schools curricula are different. It is better to work hard for 10 years in a top school and get a perfect medical education, than to be educated in an inconsistent program, such as in some European schools. All in all, the goal is to become a Physician- a high level scientist with high level empathic abilities, not a mere facilitator or legal authority who prescribes drugs: a number on the paper.

 

[Lazy Surgeon]

Agree, I rather take study loan to go to a quality medical school (such as Duke-NUS) than to get a scholarship for an inconsistent medical program (medical schools generally in China or India).

I used to be, myself, enrolled in a medical university in Europe (for far not the best one, but still) after high school and I can testify that it did not work at least for me. I moved to Canada to complete a Life Science degree and further my studies in an American style school; and American style of medical eduction is for sure more comprehensive, ordered and efficient.

 

[hopeisgreat]

Hi all.

I recently applied to the sch.

I have a 4.0 GPA and have a good research background.

However, I just got my MCAT scores a day ago, it was really bad: less than a 490! Any chances to be invited for the interview?

According to AAMC data, there is 4% acceptance rate for anyone that has an MCAT score below 490+ but good GPA. Does this apply to DUKE-NUS too?

Or should I just not get my hopes up, and just reschedule for an exam?

Thanks

 

[markyourcalendar]

Hi all.

I recently applied to the sch.

I have a 4.0 GPA and have a good research background.

However, I just got my MCAT scores a day ago, it was really bad: less than a 490! Any chances to be invited for the interview?

According to AAMC data, there is 4% acceptance rate for anyone that has an MCAT score below 490+ but good GPA. Does this apply to DUKE-NUS too?

Or should I just not get my hopes up, and just reschedule for an exam?

Thanks

I am afraid that the last applicant day of this year is 12 mar 2018, possibly the invitation has been sent out. it is no harm for you to upload your mcat score, just in case there are other slots available (suppose that there are very few applicants this cycle as a result of some negative news abt the school in the forum).

meanwhile you have to retake your mcat anyway, you definitely deserve a better score, dont be too stressed by the exam.

 

[lifeisabtlearning]

Anyone got March 12th invites yet?

 

[Raymound]

Anyone got March 12th invites yet?

I am going to Mar 12th interview in Singapore.

 

[Lazy Surgeon]

I am going to Mar 12th interview in Singapore.

Good luck! Can you, pleasw, share your stats and when you applied, is possible

 

[Raymound]

Good luck! Can you, pleasw, share your stats and when you applied, is possible

Thank you very much. Here is my stat. Plus, do you guys know the acceptance rate of the interviewees?
Regular application. Biology Science major. Planning to graduate from a Chinese university. Submitted on Nov 30th. Pending MCAT.
Took MCAT on Jan 25th, 2018: 510 (131/121/129/129). Really sucked at CARS because I am not a native speaker and probably just sucked in English ... really did not have much time to prepare for that. Have spent some time on CARS, but my reading speed just cannot be improved.
GPA: 3.64. sGPA: 3.71
Two publications. One poster at an international immunology meeting. One three-month shadow experience+several volunteer experience+mostly research experience.

 

[Raymound]

The admissions officers told me that it should be around 30-50% acceptance rate for interviewees, depending on the quality of applicants to Duke-NUS. However, the later you are invited for interview, the lesser slots there are left. Are your two publications in Chinese or are they in SCI indexed journals?

Thank you very much for your information. One is on Molecular Brain. The other is on Molecular Immunology. Both are SCI journals, but not high impact factor.

 

[Raymound]

Both journals are decent portfolio for undergraduate students, even better if you are the first author for both of them. Make sure you perform well for the interview. All the best!

Thank you. I will try my best!

 

[Enerrior]

Hi everyone,

I am a student in the Duke-NUS Pre-Medical Program which is currently only available to NUS students. From what I know from the admissions staffs, if you have a GPA of 4.00 out of 5.00 and MCAT 506 out of 528, you are pretty much secured for the interview (may vary slightly from year to year). However, if either your GPA or MCAT is lower than the cut off I have stated above, you can off-set it by doing well in the other component (e.g. GPA 3.90 out of 5.00, MCAT 520). However, there is still a minimum score they require for MCAT. If your MCAT is lower than 500, they won't even look at the rest of your application. I am not sure about the minimum GPA Duke-NUS requires. Hope that this information helps!

Hi @Combat Medic , do you happen to know if students in Duke-NUS Pre-Med program have any advantage when they apply for Duke-NUS? Just curious if there's any incentive for future applicants to take up this pre-med program.

 

[Pika123]

No offense to anyone. I am sort of concerned that this school (applicant stats-wise) is turning into one of those Caribbean schools. Certainly not Duke, probably not even NUS(?)

 

[Lazy Surgeon]

No offense to anyone. I am sort of concerned that this school (applicant stats-wise) is turning into one of those Caribbean schools. Certainly not Duke, probably not even NUS(?)

What is wrong with the Carribean schools?

 

[Pika123]

You dont have to worry about that, I can tell you that the students in Duke-NUS are as capable as those students in top american medical schools. The reason that Duke-NUS accepts a wide range of MCAT scores is because Duke-NUS knows that local Singaporeans are not trained to take the MCAT during their undergraduate years. Although MCAT is required for application, it is just one of the many factors Duke-NUS is looking at. It is the same reason why NUS and NTU PhD applications require GRE results for international applicants but waive the GRE requirement for Singaporean students who have studied in a local Singaporean university (NUS, NTU, SMU, SUTD).

Caribbean medical schools are for profit and the doctors they have trained will not be serving the Caribbean population. However, Duke-NUS is a not-for-profit government school and it is there to train qualified doctors for Singapore.

With all due respect, but neither are the Canadian/US students trained to take the MCAT. At most(all) institutions, absolutely no courses were taught to prepare a student for standardized testing. The professors teach what they want to teach.

Anyways, beside some Ochem and biochemistry, majority of the MCAT are drawn from fundamental materials like Chem101/Bio101/Physics101...etc, which are already covered in AP/A-levels/IB exams at the high school level. Based on some of the fellows I met from HwaChong or Raffle, aren't these A-levels/IBs/APs a joke for a Singaporean student? Even before college these people knew some Ochem already. Why after a few years people can't do well anymore on a test roughly the same level of knowledge?

If it's the English language, it would make more sense for people like Mr. Raymound above to justify a not so great score based on his non-Western training. He came from a Chinese education background, so he scored high in all sections except CARS. When you put in his shoes an elite English-language trained Singaporean, things just don't quite add up.

All med schools (US, Canada, UK...etc), not just Duke-NUS, look at an application from many angles. But in the old days, evaluating its applicants by the same approach, the score for Duke-NUS was around a 33. Again no offense, how could you breed excellence when the quality of your students is on a steady decline?

On a different note, is this school turning into a DO school?

I am asking this question because profit does not always take on a monetary form. In the 17th Century, colonists in the Americas used to enlist poor Europeans as indentured servants to exploit their labor. I guess in this case it's called a "service bond" in the primary care sector.

 

[Pika123]

Yes, MCAT is a joke for Singaporeans in terms of the difficulty of the questions. But when Singaporeans to do MCAT under time constraint, that is another story. Singaporeans are trained to do extremely difficult questions in ample amount of time but not easy questions under very limited time.

AP/IBs/SATs are all standardized timed test with a heavy MCQ component. No doubt they are all 'jokes,' not just for the Singaporeans, for everyone. How are they that different from the MCAT, really? If everything is easy in terms of difficulties, again, why people can do well on one joke, but not the other?

Please provide evidence or stats showing that the quality of the students in Duke-NUS has been declining over the years

Sharing some of the statistics as you have requested, a few years ago the average MCAT score for Duke-NUS accepted students on the old system was around 33, something close to a 93rd percentile. Last year it was 511, 85th percentile.

Please do not compare Duke-NUS and American medical schools in the American context....American DO schools

The comparison is apt. Singaporean MOH is encouraging med school graduates to not specialize and become generalists instead. Training future-generalist to practice in the primary care setting is exactly what DO schools in the American system do.

If you really want to compare that way, I can tell you that Duke-NUS graduates are consider FMG in USA and residency match rate for Duke-NUS graduates will be even lower than those from American DO schools if they want to practice medicine in USA.

This statement is false, of all the high-quality graduates from Duke-NUS in the past, and of the few of them who were allowed to do residency in USA, a lot of of them matched into good programs like Internal Medicine at Duke Health, Anesthesiology at MGH(Harvard) ...etc. Duke-NUS graduates in the past definitely out-performed the DO schools. Please do not undermine your brilliant predecessors.

If you want to practice in USA, going to a DO school is indeed a better choice.

I never in my original postings asked for anyone's consultation. This has nothing to do with what I want to do. I was merely sharing my opinion and the facts I know to the best of my knowledge. We can disagree on certain points, but please do not make this personal. Though I realize kindness does not always beget kindness.

You can always pay the full fees (without government and MOH subsidies) for Duke-NUS education, after that you will be free from the service bond. No one is forcing you to come to Duke-NUS, everything is made clear to you before you sign the service bond contract. Your European servants example is a very poor example.

How is it an inappropriate comparison? You think these European indentured servants did not sign a contract? You think they were not allowed to go off on their own supposed they struck a gold mine and could pay off what they owed for passage across the Atlantic? No one was forcing them to do anything and everything was made clear before boarding the ship.

I mean of course you can argue that these indentured servants could never pay off the bond, because the landlord had unjustly inflated the actual cost of the passage. But I think it's a fair statement that med school education, although costly, does not go all the way to 500K Sing dollar + 40K to 63K per year multiplied by 4.

 

[markyourcalendar]

though i don't share the same belief that DUKE NUS students are as capable as students from top american schools (maybe due to unclear def of top), i kinda feel glad to know that future school mates of mine have such desire to be capable.

The image of duke nus could hardly be altered in the eyes of certain groups of people, unless we as pioneers to prove that with hard evidence.

MCAT-wise, it is really just about preparation. some applicants are working and have little time prepared for it thoroughly. 510 seems to be decent enough...if it reaches 515, thats too high for a new school i suppose.

 

[proteinworker]

I never in my original postings asked for anyone's consultation. This has nothing to do with what I want to do. I was merely sharing my opinion and the facts I know to the best of my knowledge. We can disagree on certain points, but please do not make this personal. Though I realize kindness does not always beget kindness.

Hi! Pika123, you have read too many messages written by me. We possibly can be best friends.

 

[onyxbell]

Sharing some of the statistics as you have requested, a few years ago the average MCAT score for Duke-NUS accepted students on the old system was around 33, something close to a 93rd percentile. Last year it was 511, 85th percentile.

You do know how MCAT is scored right?

 

[phillyIndmed]

@Combat Medic I am from the Philippines and recently received offer. Would you mind clarifying whether what Pika123 said about how the MOH is encouraging students to become a generalist and limiting the opportunity of specializing is true or not. I completely understand and respect the service obligation, but it has been my life dream to become a ER doctor.

 

[phillyIndmed]

@Combat Medic Thank you for your reply. I have a 502 but several publications. I interviewed in January. My application was research-centric, so I applied MD/PHD and I think that helped.

 

[proteinworker]

@Combat Medic Thank you for your reply. I have a 502 but several publications. I interviewed in January. My application was research-centric, so I applied MD/PHD and I think that helped.

Congratulations! Are you first author of your publications? Generally first author is given to PhD holders and PhD students.

 

[phillyIndmed]

I went to Singapore. One first-authored in a filipino journal, and one second-authored in PLOS one.

 

[philips199707]

Hi, I am a junior this year and may apply this summer (junior summer). I found that Duke-NUS seeks applicant with strong research experience, and I am not sure how strong they are looking for. I have worked in a lab in our school (small Maine LAC), freshman and sophomore summer. I am now working in the lab from sophomore summer. The freshman summer is a ecology project, and now a project about microscopy. I have got 2 positions for the summer both in outside universities, one is about microscopy and another is about cancer. I would also continue the microscopy project for my senior year for thesis. No publication but 3 posters. Could anyone tell me whether this experience is okay for MD-PhD and MD.

Plus, I am wondering whether anyone may chance me for getting into Duke-NUS MD-PhD or just MD. My current GPA is 4.0/4.0 (both sGPA and cGPA), MCAT is 511. I may get lower GPA after this semester (to 3.9ish). Volunteered in a hospital 2.5 years so far, 1 year in local elementary school. Vice president of a school student org, and participated in 2 other student org. I am a Chinese student, no citizenship or PR in US or Singapore.

 

[proteinworker]

Hi, I am a junior this year and may apply this summer (junior summer). I found that Duke-NUS seeks applicant with strong research experience, and I am not sure how strong they are looking for. I have worked in a lab in our school (small Maine LAC), freshman and sophomore summer. I am now working in the lab from sophomore summer. The freshman summer is a ecology project, and now a project about microscopy. I have got 2 positions for the summer both in outside universities, one is about microscopy and another is about cancer. I would also continue the microscopy project for my senior year for thesis. No publication but 3 posters. Could anyone tell me whether this experience is okay for MD-PhD and MD.

Plus, I am wondering whether anyone may chance me for getting into Duke-NUS MD-PhD or just MD. My current GPA is 4.0/4.0 (both sGPA and cGPA), MCAT is 511. I may get lower GPA after this semester (to 3.9ish). Volunteered in a hospital 2.5 years so far, 1 year in local elementary school. Vice president of a school student org, and participated in 2 other student org. I am a Chinese student, no citizenship or PR in US or Singapore.

It looks like Duke NUS really aims to nurture research-based doctors.

Try to get at least a co-authored publication.It may take some time, though.

 

[zackksg]

Hey Everyone,

Seems like lots of active posting on this thread which is great. We recently had an Applicant Day as well and hope the applicants found it useful especially speaking to current students who are undergoing the curriculum.

From the vibrant debate, I think we can all agree medical school will be tough. There can be a lot of negative energy. There is a bond. School fees are high. You may not get into the specialty of your choice. At the end of the day, people are people everywhere. And the situation is not necessarily better at the other side, whichever better side you may be considering.

If you do manage to get a spot into Duke-NUS already, I would like to say Welcome! It is a precious opportunity that not everyone gets. Always try to get your information first-hand. See things for yourself. I think as future/aspiring physicians, the best opinion to have will be one that you form on your own by observing the ground. When I was accepted to the school, I actually emailed the school to ask to interact with more students. That really helped me form my own understanding and expectations.

To prospective applicants, do reach out more yeah!

 

[livingbychance]

hi everyone,

It's been about 2 months since my interview for Duke-NUS and I've yet to hear from them. I've been offered a place in a US medical school and the deadline for declining/accepting is nearing. Duke NUS is on the top of my list to enter so I'm in a pinch on what should I do if I do not hear from them. I do not know if I'm able to accept the offer from the US medical school and then reject it later if Duke NUS does offer me a spot.

 

[Enerrior]

hi everyone,

It's been about 2 months since my interview for Duke-NUS and I've yet to hear from them. I've been offered a place in a US medical school and the deadline for declining/accepting is nearing. Duke NUS is on the top of my list to enter so I'm in a pinch on what should I do if I do not hear from them. I do not know if I'm able to accept the offer from the US medical school and then reject it later if Duke NUS does offer me a spot.

Maybe you can let Duke-NUS know about your current US med school offer and see if the school will accelerate its decision process for your case? (Though this might work against you)

 

[phillyIndmed]

Would the current student mind sharing how clerkship/practice course work (curriculum, grading, ...etc) ?

 

[onceasaint17]

From the previous few years, Duke-NUS starts to send out most offers in April.

Whoa, still some time to wait!!! The suspense is killing me

 

[udgmgt]

Not a Duke-NUS student currently. But from what I know, how much liquidated damages you need to pay depends on which year you leave the course and whether you hold any other scholarships. You have to pay back whatever MOH has subsidized you and the amount scholarships have paid you plus interests incurred if that amount is loaned from the bank. If you leave the course in year 4, you probably have to pay back around half a million. You can calculate the exact amount using the subsidies listed on MOH website.

If you leave the course in year 2, you have to pay back around half a million. If you leave the course in year 4, the liquidated damages is around a million. The interest is compounded at 10%pa and this school's tuition fees (and corresponding liquidated damages) is consistently increasing over the years alongside living costs and taxes.

 

[udgmgt]

Thank you for your reply, Combat Medic.

Some people may leave the course due to unexpected circumstances, such as medical reasons.Looks like Duke NUS MD course is only suitable for the rich.Others will really suffer enormous pressure when studying MD in Duke NUS.I hope Combat Medic is one of the rich.

For the not so rich, there are 2 safer options. Study in a recognized overseas medical school with low tuition fees. Medical schools in Sg probably have the highest full tuition fees in the world. What you see on their websites is actually subsidized tuition fee.The second option is to study in an unrecognized medical school(most likely with very low tuition fees) and then get a recognized specialist qualification. The second option looks a bit risky.

Medical schools in Sg probably have the highest full tuition fees in the world.
Word.

 

[udgmgt]

Haha, you are very humorous. You won't need to pay the damages if it is due to reasons beyond your control (e.g. Medical reasons as you have stated, sudden change in family financial situation etc). Not sure if you consider failing exams repeatedly in Duke-NUS as a reason beyond the student's control (but you still have to pay the damages). I have some seniors in Duke-NUS who told me that there are students who drop out in their classes, but it is at most 1 or 2 in their individual cohort for the whole 4 years. Furthermore, some of them dropped out willingly as they realized that medicine is not what they want after all. Someone also dropped out due to poor English (since a good TOEFL score doesn't equate to good English ability).

I come from a financially-not-so-privileged Singaporean family and will be taking study loans if Duke-NUS accepts me this intake. Honestly speaking, if I have the financial resources, I will consider top UK or Australian Medical Schools instead. I cannot consider US Medical Schools since they require a degree from USA and probably a green card. I won't consider Duke-NUS in that financial situation is not because Duke-NUS is of a lower quality, it is just that I have been in Singapore for my undergraduate program and I would like to experience something new. I have pretty outstanding grades and research background so admissions into top UK and Australian medical schools won't be a problem for me. The only issue is the schooling expenses. Like many have stated in Duke-NUS forums in the previous years, if you are a poor Singaporean, where else can you consider other than Duke-NUS for graduate medical education.

From what I understand, a score of minimum 70% is required to pass and the assessments are plentiful such that failing a few times each week is possible. Top UK and Australian medical schools might well be a safer and better option for consistent quality recognised medical education.

 

[udgmgt]

I know two seniors who have already graduated from Duke-NUS, one doing O&G (his first choice) and another doing internal medicine (not sure if this is his first choice). They said that getting into the residency you want should not be a problem if you got good grades in Duke-NUS (Distinctions or Gold Medal). If you did research related to your first choice residency program in year 3 or MD-PhD, you will be even more competitive. Once you have graduated successfully from Duke-NUS, you are more or less guaranteed a residency spot but it may not be your chosen specialization (depending on your grades and interview).

No residency positions are guaranteed for Duke-NUS graduates. A good number of Duke-NUS graduates are not given residency positions and work exactly same as graduates from the undergraduate programs in the Singapore system. They are service physicians not in any post-graduation training programs. Some of the Duke-NUS graduates are unable to withstand the rigors and demands of the internship work and are booted out of the medical field before they can get any residency position, or out of their residency.

 

[udgmgt]

At least at the Durham applicant day there was definitely a lot of talking that there is currently an oversupply of specialists in Singapore. Adding fuel to the fire, there is a great need for primary care doctors at the junior level due to an aging population, so the ministry is increasing the size of each med school cohort (something like DUKE-NUS going up to 100 ppls per year, NTU med school going to 300 ...etc (forgot about the exact NTU and YLL number). It would be easy to secure a medical officer position and follow Singapore's resident physician route. But competition for popular residencies like surgery...etc for recent graduates will be extremely fierce, more so when having to compete with more mature medical officers who had already worked in the department, know the people etc. Like this year they only allow new graduates to apply for IM, Radiology and two others listed on the MOH website. Gynecology and IM seem to be the only options beside simply shuffled a medical officer position.

Right from its inception, Duke-NUS was projected to increase their cohort to more than 100 per year within its first 5 years but this has clearly not materialised. Duke-NUS cannot achieve this intake quota. That was probably why NTU set up an undergraduate medical program with a significantly larger intake than Duke-NUS, to make up for Duke-NUS's gross shortfall and replace Duke-NUS in training physicians for the Singapore public healthcare sector.

 

[udgmgt]

I used to be, myself, enrolled in a medical university in Europe (for far not the best one, but still) after high school and I can testify that it did not work at least for me. I moved to Canada to complete a Life Science degree and further my studies in an American style school; and American style of medical eduction is for sure more comprehensive, ordered and efficient.

American education is nothing compared to Asian education system.