Doing residency in the South, but looking to relocate to the Pacific Northwest (mainly Seattle) area after I finish. Anyone know the market up there as far as who the major players are and any groups that I should avoid as well as what kind of numbers I'm probably looking at for compensation? Any info would be appreciated.
anyone have info on seattle area market?
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No personal knowledge, but a recurring theme in desirable places to live is low salaries, long or no tracks to partner, high call burden, etc.
There was a pretty long thread a few months back about one hospital firing it's anesthesia group en masse. That has some details on the Seattle market.
There was a pretty long thread a few months back about one hospital firing it's anesthesia group en masse. That has some details on the Seattle market.
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Here's the thread on what happened in Seattle.
And, I'd have to agree about the "recurring theme" Pilot Doc talks about. As I start my job search, it's interesting to see where the need is and where you're going to get a bad deal. Atlanta, for example, seems woefully under market as far as what you should get coming out as a total package. I think the desire for some people to live in and be around that city (and all it has to offer) creates some greed in those who own the practices. I mean, $190K to start and 5-year partner track?!? Come on!
-copro
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Any of you veterans have any idea on the real world in Illinois, Wisconsin, Indiana?
I don't care really if it's semi-rural since I think this the way it's just going to have to be. However, I liked to be within a reasonable driving distance to Chicago (my favorite city in the world).
I don't care really if it's semi-rural since I think this the way it's just going to have to be. However, I liked to be within a reasonable driving distance to Chicago (my favorite city in the world).
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the gigs in the Seattle area are actually pretty sweet... if you can get one.... There isn't a ton of screwing over done (though see NW hospital...)...
Swedish is the big mother ship.. (70-80 anesthesiologists) it probably is the rawest deal out there...
First year is 40% of what partner makes
Second is 60%
Third year is partner... (~400K)
10 weeks vacation I think.
Overlake/Evergreen are the eastside gigs....
Income is based on work (insurance blinded)
I think both groups take a fixed chunk the first year (30%)
Then you're full power after that...
Partnership in the third year....
8-12 weeks vacay
These two are smaller groups (18-24 anesthesiologists) but highly sought after
Those are the good PP jobs out there I think...
Since Swedish is so big they tend to hire a lot (lots of surg centers too). The 1st year is a bit raw but it is a well run organization.... lots of job sharing goes on with the partners too...
Other options
Pacific Med: runs Everett, Stephen's hospital and I think St. Joes. Fairly large group too, no Seattle based hospitals. I think around 300K the first year, salary maxing out around 380-400K. Again 8-10 weeks vacation
Highline hospital: small West Seattle based hospital (10-12 anesthesiologists). No in house call. I think partners there make maybe 350K. 8-10 weeks vacaay maybe... They are hiring
Tacoma General: I think this group does well. Subsidized by hospital. Partners make 400K, 2 years to partner. New hires start 300-320. Good vacay as well. Do everything almosts; hearts, kids, trauma (level II)
Valley: dont know, one of the few that have CRNAs
Virginia Mason: I think that the anesthesiologists there do well but dont know specifics
Northwest: hmm prob still a little sketchy
Cost of living in Seattle is a bit much but the salaries and benies are still pretty good. Emphasis on vacay and lifestyle in most groups.
Swedish is the big mother ship.. (70-80 anesthesiologists) it probably is the rawest deal out there...
First year is 40% of what partner makes
Second is 60%
Third year is partner... (~400K)
10 weeks vacation I think.
Overlake/Evergreen are the eastside gigs....
Income is based on work (insurance blinded)
I think both groups take a fixed chunk the first year (30%)
Then you're full power after that...
Partnership in the third year....
8-12 weeks vacay
These two are smaller groups (18-24 anesthesiologists) but highly sought after
Those are the good PP jobs out there I think...
Since Swedish is so big they tend to hire a lot (lots of surg centers too). The 1st year is a bit raw but it is a well run organization.... lots of job sharing goes on with the partners too...
Other options
Pacific Med: runs Everett, Stephen's hospital and I think St. Joes. Fairly large group too, no Seattle based hospitals. I think around 300K the first year, salary maxing out around 380-400K. Again 8-10 weeks vacation
Highline hospital: small West Seattle based hospital (10-12 anesthesiologists). No in house call. I think partners there make maybe 350K. 8-10 weeks vacaay maybe... They are hiring
Tacoma General: I think this group does well. Subsidized by hospital. Partners make 400K, 2 years to partner. New hires start 300-320. Good vacay as well. Do everything almosts; hearts, kids, trauma (level II)
Valley: dont know, one of the few that have CRNAs
Virginia Mason: I think that the anesthesiologists there do well but dont know specifics
Northwest: hmm prob still a little sketchy
Cost of living in Seattle is a bit much but the salaries and benies are still pretty good. Emphasis on vacay and lifestyle in most groups.
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Valley Medical Center in Renton, WA
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Excellent helpful reply. If some of those are even close to true I think those are pretty good deals to live in Seattle. If those are "raw deals" for living in a desirable area then I want to see what people are getting for living is s hitty areas!
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I've heard that the group in Olympia has a lot of older members so there might be a period of significant turnover in the not-too-distant future.
I think that the economy may have slowed some people's retirement plans, and that could have led to a tougher market than anticipated. However, from what I've heard from my residents, they haven't had a difficult time finding jobs. I'm happy with my gig, but I've had a couple of my buddies suggest I apply to join their group.
For me, the buy-ins at Overlake and Swedish would be too steep. Granted, if you stay long enough, you make your buy-in back by screwing those who come after you.
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Seattle is awful and no one is hiring.
Providence Everett is hiring, but has a really screwy system and you have to work for Somnia.
I understand Vancouver is growing and hiring and you have the benefit of tax free shopping across the river in Portland with no income tax (yet) in Washington.
Tri cities is not hiring.
Spokane is hiring.
-pod
Providence Everett is hiring, but has a really screwy system and you have to work for Somnia.
I understand Vancouver is growing and hiring and you have the benefit of tax free shopping across the river in Portland with no income tax (yet) in Washington.
Tri cities is not hiring.
Spokane is hiring.
-pod
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How bad is that Providence Everett job? I have seen it posted for a while on gaswork... Seems like a lot of OB (4-5,000 deliveries/yr), but if the call frequency/length wasn't that bad it'd be doable. Any info?
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May I revive the thread as I came with the exact same question?
The biggest private practice group in Seattle (city) sold out to USAP. It is a tight market with other private practice groups in and outside Seattle proper. The 2 private groups that are the best IMO/but also hardest to get into are Evergreen hospital and Overlake Hospital (these are Matrix Anesthesia) They are under the matrix umbrella but each group is run separately and pay/benefits/structure are different. When I say Matrix that is just the name. They are not run by an AMC. These 2 hospitals are in the suburbs outside of Seattle. There are others too..... The problem with the pacific northwest is the unit value tends to be lower vs the rest of the U.S. regions. Of course there are a few outliers :0
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I spoke with the Bellingham group a few years ago. They seem like a solid stable group with an emphasis on QOL over income. Most partners took good chunks of time off, but salary was lower than I wanted. Spokane has some decent options if you're not married to being coastal.
Bellingham has low blended unit value. I think it's around 32!! Income is not enough IMHO...Spokane? You mean Spok-compton :0 Actually you guys will get a good laugh over this. The anesthesia group over at Valley (renton -little south of seattle) is doing 5-yr partnership track with first yr at 200k :/
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So it's just like San Diego without the sunshine! At least the tax profile is better.
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Do you have any info about this USAP group? Thanks.
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Yes it is the large group that covers Swedish Hospitals (the ones downtown and issaquah) You still get plenty of vacation but that is a theme of all of the pp groups. I know many people jumped ship when the partners were being shady about selling out. Apparently they left notices in the attn mailboxes: "O FYI we are selling group" lol. I don't know what the salary is now. Before the buyout I think you started at around 300ish if you did regular hours. What they did is pay your an hrly rate which would go up. So 1st yr was 140ish, 2nd yr 150ish etc. Third yr was partner. So W2 with full benefits. You could work more or less to adjust your income and it's WA so you do all your own cases. I wouldn't be surprised if USAP kept it similar. USAP is supposely better than other AMCS. You can buy some shares in the company I believe. However WA state only has a small % of AMC buyouts so you really should try to avoid that. All the other groups in/outside Seattle radius (30-40 miles) are private except for GroupHealth Hospital in Seattle where anesthesia was bought out by Kaiser. You can pm as I still know someone at Swedish. I think he is still there lol.
I looked at the Bellingham group a few years back, then again when they rumored to have made some changes for the better. I think they remain mostly "nice guys," but they are allowing themselves to be played for chumps. That, and they have an outrageous two-year buy-in (30%, then 20%, or something like that). And at first they expect you to drive all over creation to get a feel for their many small sites.
The last ad I saw for them was an attempt to hire eight new anesthesiologists. No, it is not growth that requires eight new warm bodies. It's loss and attrition.
My advice is to pass.
The last ad I saw for them was an attempt to hire eight new anesthesiologists. No, it is not growth that requires eight new warm bodies. It's loss and attrition.
My advice is to pass.
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anyone have insight on the academic jobs there, or any anes/ccm positions?
holy ****, that's bad. A buddy of mine took a job there a couple years ago and hated that group. left in a month. It's not an advisable position for anyone you like.
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This post is from a decade ago and quoted numbers are (obviously) in 2008 dollars. Pretty sobering that you could actually make more money 10 years ago than you can today in unadjusted dollars.
Don’t normally post in this forum but was having an interesting time with the website The Way Back Machine archiving old websites. You can use it to look at gaswork posted salaries circa 2006 to get an idea if they have kept up with 11 years of inflation. Most have not or barely. See for yourself
GasWork.com Anesthesia Employment Resource
