- Joined
- Sep 21, 2009
- Messages
- 1,644
- Reaction score
- 675
Why are you on probationary status?
Black premeds/doctors around?
- Thread starter AlphaBeta<3
- Start date
Why are you on probationary status?
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2015
- Messages
- 1,865
- Reaction score
- 874
According to the admins, talking about race in race related forums ("Which race should I apply as?" Thread)
They said it detracts from the "fun" atmosphere they are trying to create.
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2009
- Messages
- 1,644
- Reaction score
- 675
There is no fun atmosphere when it comes to race and SDN. It is always filled with malice.
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2015
- Messages
- 1,865
- Reaction score
- 874
This was the exact post they were referring to. This person responded that the OP should apply as "Anything URM" and I said
↑
anything URM
Or OP can just apply as a white female, since they benefit most from AA anyway.
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2015
- Messages
- 112
- Reaction score
- 164
So typical of them...
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2014
- Messages
- 1,572
- Reaction score
- 2,241
I meant more so just in general in our day to day lives. I vehemently refuse to engage on the forums haha.
@URMfutureDoc yea, sometimes I just want to take a few days to not think about it at all lol
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2015
- Messages
- 581
- Reaction score
- 210
This is my third day here and I hate it already, I dont ever plan working overnight ever again unless Im getting clinical experience or Im a doctor. I have an interview today at 2pm at job#2 and if I get that job then Im quitting this one. This is my second night with the guy and Ive only said hi to him and kept about my business. He disclosed too much information to me in that first day and it really turned me off(even though I wasnt turned on) jesus take the wheel.@dreamadream Hopefully everything works out
There will always be that creepy guy or girl in a new environment. Everyone else has ignored them or accepted their advances so they will always jump to the new person. Just keep shutting him down and eventually it should stop, if not, then I'm sure you know what to do in that situation.
Edit: I have officially decided to change my major from Psychology to Health Sciences...
It has to be doneI was really looking forward to joining Psi Chi this semester. I wish my school offered a minor in Psychology. Then again, I can always just take some psych electives and call it a day
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2014
- Messages
- 1,012
- Reaction score
- 813
Do you have any med school specific data to support that assertion, or do you just really like parroting that line? Best data I have is
White matriculant MCAT: 31.8
Black matriculant MCAT: 27.3
White matriculant GPA: 3.73
Black matriculant GPA: 3.48
Male matriculant MCAT: 32
Female matriculant MCAT: 30.7
Male matriculant GPA: 3.69
Female matriculant GPA: 3.71
I'm in favor of policies that boost URM, socioeconomically disadvantaged, and diverse individuals in general representation in medicine. Just not big on propagating false information
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2015
- Messages
- 112
- Reaction score
- 164
Listing GPA and MCAT stats doesn't really prove or disprove that URMs use AA more. There may be other reasons for how these stats look (like minority serving schools, etc). Also just listing stats in bulk doesn't make sense because while there may be more white applicants who benefit from AA than URMs, their stats are better buffered by the extremely large pool of white applicants. So if 50 white applicants benefitted from AA out of 5000 white candidates total, the change in bulk stats is going to look less severe than if 2 URMs benefit from AA out of 20 black candidates total (these numbers are obviously made up and exaggerated but you get my point, hopefully). I'm not claiming that one benefits more than the other I was just confused about your method of implying who uses AA more.
And lastly, I think we should retire the whole "some people don't actually deserve to be doctors, they only got in because of AA" sentiment that I see on here frequently. To me, the AA argument doesn't make sense when it comes to medicine. Medical schools aren't just looking for the students with the best stats, they're looking for the students who will become the best doctors. And although a kid may have a 4.0/40, s/he may turn out to be a bigot, or arrogant, or lack good people skills. Someone like that probably won't make the best doctor and med schools can see that. But another student with lower stats than the first kid may have wonderful people skills and empathy and maturity. This kid probably will make a good doctor and med schools can see that too. A doctor is way more than just a score on a silly test or their GPA. Medicine is about working with and serving people and working on a team and no matter how high your stats are, if you can't work with people, then you probably couldn't do this job as well as you wanted to.
Just my 2 cents, good luck with the rest of the season!
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2013
- Messages
- 43
- Reaction score
- 30
Not sure how this is an accurate assessment of the effects of AA. If an MCAT question asked you to choose the best variables to measure said effect, would you choose GPA and MCAT? I sure hope not. This policy is meant to increase representation of those who have been legally and socioeconomically barred from admissions historically. This data literally has nothing to do with representation. A more appropriate way to look at it would be observing the shift in demographics of medical school matriculants before and after such policies were put into law. Then you will see the truth behind the point that was made.
Also if you can't tell by the rest of this thread, this is not the right place for inserting banter about admissions stats and such. They actually have something pretty good going here. No hijacking
Edit: @kaydo525 beat me to the punch I see
- Joined
- May 21, 2013
- Messages
- 3,910
- Reaction score
- 6,253
Once again medical school doesn't use AA in their admission process. AA is to right the wrongs of the past for certain minority groups. That's not the case in medical school they are not concerned with the student their one and only focus is what's best for the patient and they think a population of doctors that match the patient population is best for the patients. Hence why you see certain Asian groups benefiting from URM statutes. URM stands for underrepresented In medicine, so that's all they are focusing on. On a side note which is most important this thread is about black pre-med/med individuals conversing don't let people derail this thread please!!!! I've been on this site for so long and never had such a thread don't let people detract it from its main message
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2014
- Messages
- 1,012
- Reaction score
- 813
(1) I didn't say the data were ideal, I said they were the best available data I knew of and I asked for data that better made the point being asserted - I was not the one making an assertion, alphabeta was.
(2) I'm well aware URM and AA aren't synonymous, but they were conflated in the post I quoted. I only made reference to URM.
(3) "somepeople don't actually deserve to be doctors, they only got in because of AA" - I didn't express that sentiment anywhere
(4) I didn't bring up the topic, I asked a question about a topic being discussed. As far as posts detracting from the point of the thread, maybe direct your attention toward the anti-mod circle jerk
(5) I'm far, far removed from the med school admission process, so I really don't have a dog in this fight beyond my own interest in being involved in medical education in the future. All I asked for were data supporting a point being made
(2) I'm well aware URM and AA aren't synonymous, but they were conflated in the post I quoted. I only made reference to URM.
(3) "somepeople don't actually deserve to be doctors, they only got in because of AA" - I didn't express that sentiment anywhere
(4) I didn't bring up the topic, I asked a question about a topic being discussed. As far as posts detracting from the point of the thread, maybe direct your attention toward the anti-mod circle jerk
(5) I'm far, far removed from the med school admission process, so I really don't have a dog in this fight beyond my own interest in being involved in medical education in the future. All I asked for were data supporting a point being made
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2015
- Messages
- 112
- Reaction score
- 164
I wasn't talking about you when I said this, I was just saying this in general. I see many students saying things similar to this as if AA even matters in this process. My comment wasn't directed at you, so don't fret.
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2015
- Messages
- 581
- Reaction score
- 210
Ok I feel sick. I just interviewed at job #2 and I feel like they just wasted my time. I forgot to mention that I interviewed there 2 months ago and was waiting for a call forever. Got called on last week for another interview with the person I was supposed to interview with. So I interview with the director and he said he has to see about what happened between the time I was interview at first to now. Im so pissed that I keep wasting my time just to get let down. The killer part is that he told me to fill out another application. Why isn't anything happening for me?...Im actually pissed but I'll see what happens.
In fairness, I don't think it's the 4.0/40s that are being impacted - those guys will likely get into several schools unless there's some fatal flaw. AA probably harms the ~3.5/30 kids the most.
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2015
- Messages
- 112
- Reaction score
- 164
That's why I think there's no such thing as AA in medical schools. Kids could have stellar stats, but they could have other flaws which makes them less desirable candidates than students with lower stats. Basically, AA isn't a thing because the medical school admissions process is supposed to be judged holistically. I can't really say which group would theoretically benefit more, I'm just basing it on what I see on this site which is "I have these stellar stats, why didn't I get in? Someone 'stole' my spot." But, yeah I can't really make that call.
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2014
- Messages
- 1,012
- Reaction score
- 813
Admissions are holistic, but a major part of that holistic assessment of an applicant is objective academic performance. People griping about stolen seats are just wrapped up in a self pity party, but to spin it and say there's no advantage applying URM because the process is holistic is.. Eh, seems disingenuous
As far as the "sheldon" geniuses applying with no social skills and not much to speak of application wise outside of their stats.. They certainly exist, but in my experience, the people with baller stats also have some of the most baller overall applications, for both med school and residency
As far as the "sheldon" geniuses applying with no social skills and not much to speak of application wise outside of their stats.. They certainly exist, but in my experience, the people with baller stats also have some of the most baller overall applications, for both med school and residency
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2015
- Messages
- 112
- Reaction score
- 164
I agree that schools are supposed to judge academic performance, but they have to judge other things as well.
Med schools have to choose the candidates that will make good doctors so they need all candidates from all races, ethnicities, religions, sexes, etc so they can connect to all types of patients. It's always been a little weird to me when people say that URMs get some sort of "edge" in this process as if anyone is doing us favors/giving us hand outs. We are needed, desperately. Many of us are in systems in this country that put us at a major disadvantage and previously prevented us from going into this field. Med schools are recognizing that URMs are lacking because of these systems and that more URMs are needed in medicine. Doesn't mean we don't put in the work or don't deserve it. As someone previously said, it's sort of helping to undo the wrongs that were previously done. If part of a system is broken, we need to fix it. There aren't enough URMs in medicine, so we need to fix that. This is just my humble opinion.
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2014
- Messages
- 1,012
- Reaction score
- 813
Obviously any sort of more lenient admissions for an individual isn't done as an individual favor. I wouldn't say it's to right a wrong either, unless you simply mean the wrong of an inequitable mix of physicians demographically. It's done to fulfill a need in the healthcare system, as you said in part of your post. Regardless of the intent of the policy, it is certainly beneficial to individuals (URM, SE-disadvantaged, what have you) applying - it would be a self defeating policy if it didn't bestow any benefit over individuals not fitting into those categories being selected for, though I understand the aversion to having that benefit being called a handout or favor
There are over 86750 total medical students in the country. There are about 5500 black medical students enrolled. Black student are not "stealing spots".
If you think of the actual number of white students that get in with the same states as the average URM, I bet the number is waaaaaay higher. To add to that, low GPA does not mean a person isn't smart or won't do well. There could be a strong upward trend, post bacc work after time off and/or life events that contribute (which are more likely to be experienced by poor people imo. Poor doesn't equal black but Blacks are more likely to live in poverty).
People use African Americans as scapegoats when they don't get in. They want someone to blame. If black ppl stop applying, they would say Mexicans, then Asians, then women, then vets, then non trads and the list goes on. People are too entitled and privileged to say "I wasn't what they were looking for this year".
This is also coming from a white guy that thought like these ignorant people a few years ago. I have friends who are sooo much smarter than me but my GPA is higher because all I had to worry about was school. If they could focus on school the way I did, I honestly believe they could get into Harvard.
If you think of the actual number of white students that get in with the same states as the average URM, I bet the number is waaaaaay higher. To add to that, low GPA does not mean a person isn't smart or won't do well. There could be a strong upward trend, post bacc work after time off and/or life events that contribute (which are more likely to be experienced by poor people imo. Poor doesn't equal black but Blacks are more likely to live in poverty).
People use African Americans as scapegoats when they don't get in. They want someone to blame. If black ppl stop applying, they would say Mexicans, then Asians, then women, then vets, then non trads and the list goes on. People are too entitled and privileged to say "I wasn't what they were looking for this year".
This is also coming from a white guy that thought like these ignorant people a few years ago. I have friends who are sooo much smarter than me but my GPA is higher because all I had to worry about was school. If they could focus on school the way I did, I honestly believe they could get into Harvard.
D
deleted480308
"stealing spots" is an unnecessarily emotional phrase and the number of students doesn't matter
When you take applicants at any mcat/gpa point, the likelihood of acceptance varies widely between students of different races/ethnicity. You may think it's a small impact or that it's a justifiable one, but the process is racial discrimination. There are people who just don't think racial discrimination is ever justified. thus, the controversy with URM admission policies
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2015
- Messages
- 112
- Reaction score
- 164
This is something that I've always been curious about. Why do certain applicants get incredibly angry about "racial discrimination" only when it doesn't benefit them? URMs have endured discrimination throughout their lives, throughout their entire time in the school system. Minority schools are usually wildly underfunded and Black boys get suspended 3x more often than white boys for the same offense (and black girls are 6x more likely). URMS have to deal with a lot of discriminatory BS. But the only time I see non URM students complain about school discrimination or injustice it has something to do with them not getting a spot in some school. Why focus most of your attention complaining about that rather than fighting for all students to get the same opportunities as most of overrepresented candidates? Not questioning you, specifically, but it's just something I think about from time to time. Why not fix the problem at the start? Why get angry only when the corrupt system doesn't give you the advantages you're so used to? Imagine if your entire life was like that.
Anyway, sorry for entertaining this nonsense when this was supposed to be a safe space for URMs. I think we should stop talking about all this and allow this thread to be (one of the very few) safe spaces for URM candidates on here.
D
deleted480308
I don't think you'll find a ton of us who think it's ok to racially discriminate in other areas either, racial discrimination is wrong. It just so happens that this is a forum about med school, so med school admission comes up a lot
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2015
- Messages
- 547
- Reaction score
- 606
I tr
I tried to address this issue a hundred different ways on other threads. Just leave it alone, don't give it anymore energy. People will never " get it". Putting people in an " inferior "academic situation for 12 years and then expecting them to magically " catch up " and get the same grades/ mcat /SAT scores as others who have had better schools, environments, tutors , test prep classes etc. their entire lives is very unrealistic. I guess adcoms finally realize this.
Last edited:
@sb247 tuck in your shirt. Your privilege is showing. Most medical students don't deal with race or social issues because they come from privilege. They don't have the think about it. It doesn't matter what you "agree" with. Read this forum and you will see that every single time a URM thread comes up, the covert racism is apparent.
Anyway sorry for taking over the thread with the negative things seen all over SDN. This thread was a positive URM thread for a once. "The white man" had to come ruin it. Ha ha ha
Anyway sorry for taking over the thread with the negative things seen all over SDN. This thread was a positive URM thread for a once. "The white man" had to come ruin it. Ha ha ha
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2015
- Messages
- 252
- Reaction score
- 507
Anddddddd back to our regularly scheduled programming....
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2014
- Messages
- 39
- Reaction score
- 65
D
deleted480308
Please poi
please cite the factual innaccuracy in my comment
Dude you responded to me. Lol. And reading both your posts, you did NOT name one FACT to respond to, so......
Edit: And sorry guys. I won't post anymore of this crap. Even if I get annoyed with this dude's response.
Edit: And sorry guys. I won't post anymore of this crap. Even if I get annoyed with this dude's response.
D
deleted480308
The fact was that applicants with identical stats have significantly different acceptance rates by changing only their race/ethnicity
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2008
- Messages
- 1,610
- Reaction score
- 4,458
I just wanted to point out (before this thread's inevitable closure) that over the course of your careers, you guys will find that you are able to make a very real, positive impact out there. I see it when my residents tell me that I'm the first Black person they've ever had in a position of authority over them. I see it when my patients say I'm the first doctor they've had who looks like them. I've seen it when I absolutely blow those patients' minds and tell them I grew up in the same (ghetto) area they did and went to the same schools. When they realize that someone CAN make it out and they're seeing the result. I've seen it in the look on my White patients' faces when I stroll in and the resident or nurse tells them that I'm "the boss" or "the chief" or "the doctor calling the shots tonight."
That happens every day. It will eventually happen to you (maybe not to the same extent). All that probably helps me not feel the need to respond to all the ignorance that is abundant on these forums. Waste of time and energy that could be better spent making an impact in real life.
That happens every day. It will eventually happen to you (maybe not to the same extent). All that probably helps me not feel the need to respond to all the ignorance that is abundant on these forums. Waste of time and energy that could be better spent making an impact in real life.
Wow.
I come in here thinking black premeds and doctors were conversing with each other but it's the same old URM vs white applicant bs.
I remember a couple years ago I actually stopped posting on this website because a thread was made basically saying they'd never let a black Doctor touch them because they weren't as smart as their white & Asian counterparts. I was very disappointed that the admins/moderators would let something so racist be on this website.
I might stop posting again until I get ready to apply.
I come in here thinking black premeds and doctors were conversing with each other but it's the same old URM vs white applicant bs.
I remember a couple years ago I actually stopped posting on this website because a thread was made basically saying they'd never let a black Doctor touch them because they weren't as smart as their white & Asian counterparts. I was very disappointed that the admins/moderators would let something so racist be on this website.
I might stop posting again until I get ready to apply.
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2008
- Messages
- 1,610
- Reaction score
- 4,458
What year in school are you?
I'm a senior graduating in May, but I'm gonna have to take a few more classes to raise my GPA and take the MCAT so I probably won't apply until 2018.
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2014
- Messages
- 39
- Reaction score
- 65
In fairness, the thread has been great up until it's recent derailment! Stick around, won't you?
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2008
- Messages
- 1,610
- Reaction score
- 4,458
I'll probably still be around then!! More crotchety I imagine.
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2013
- Messages
- 163
- Reaction score
- 116
Lol @ the use of crotchety. I literally laughed aloud.
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2015
- Messages
- 112
- Reaction score
- 164
You're absolutely right. Let's get back to hearing about each other's successes and celebrating the excellence we see in this thread.
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2015
- Messages
- 581
- Reaction score
- 210
Oh no what's going on in this thread, we go from advice and talking about things off topic(tv shows), to race...again.
My problem with this argument is that not all URMs face those challenges, and there will in fact be many white and Asian people who face such challenging circumstances. Give the boost based on SES, and there'd be less pushback. And many would say if the problem is that "black schools" tend to be underfunded or failing their students for whatever reason, then the right fix would be to try and fix the schools rather than just giving a boost later in life.
On a side note, a frequent implication in threads like this is that all "privileged" students had tutors and test prep courses growing up, and that this is the reason they do well. While people of those groups might have access to such resources, there are many students who never bothered with either. I know I never did; just didn't need it.
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2015
- Messages
- 1,865
- Reaction score
- 874
You seem to only come whenever there is a controvery.
Serioudly, everyone here who is off topic, please leave. This thread is NOT to discuss AA. This thread is for Black and African American premeds who want a support system. We do not need to justify our place to anyone here.
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2015
- Messages
- 1,865
- Reaction score
- 874
Don't stop posting, I'll message mods to have comments deleted if need be
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2014
- Messages
- 1,012
- Reaction score
- 813
You started the aa/urm dialogue broski/braski
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2011
- Messages
- 80
- Reaction score
- 124
Along these lines....
Did anyone ever see the ER episode where Dr. Benton (a black doctor) had a black patient who said something along the lines of... "I'm sure your mom is really proud of you, but can I have a white doctor, please?" I saw the episode years ago when I was a kid and it has always stuck with me.
For all the doctors and med students here, what's the best way to handle situations like this? How do you deal with racist patients? I'm starting med school this fall and this is the only thing that is scaring me.
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2008
- Messages
- 1,610
- Reaction score
- 4,458
It has happened twice in my entire career, and never as a student. In both cases it was explained to the patient that I was the doctor they were going to get, if they chose to accept medical care.
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2015
- Messages
- 1,865
- Reaction score
- 874
How'd they respond ?
This sorta happened to my dad when he was a resident (he's Indian, patient was white). Patient asked to see his attending (she didn't say why), and he (a black doctor I think) walked in. Patient basically said something to the effect of "why are there no white doctors in this damn hospital", got up, and left. He did tell me that had she stayed and requested a white doctor, he probably would have gotten one, regardless of how unjustified her preferences may have been. This was a while ago. I got the impression that it's quite rare this happens though. The kind of racism he typically encounters is typically something along the lines of "Wow, you speak really well for a foreigner"
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2008
- Messages
- 1,610
- Reaction score
- 4,458
They both stayed. It probably doesn't hurt that I'm a "safety net" provider (and frequently the only physician in the building other than ER) and my patients can't actually be that choosy. However I've had patients refuse care for all sorts of reasons, and would have documented everything and moved on.
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2015
- Messages
- 1,865
- Reaction score
- 874
I'm waiting to hear back from my first summer internship opportunity. If I don't get into any this time, then I'm screwed. They generally don't offer anything to Jrs and Srs without research experience. >. <
D
deleted480308
I like to discuss interesting things, like when I was denouncing the white separatist last night, so when they get brought up I tend to reply. I commented on what I thought was a misleading post and then only responded to me being addressed. I will continue to do only that but I will not be "shushed" like a child. I agree 100% that you don't need to justify your place to anyone. I don't and you shouldn't
