California Northstate Accreditation Discussion

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confettiflyer said:
Good plan, school becomes less and less important the further you get out. However, you will probably get more, "Oh, how was that?" questions if school ever did come up.

What were the c/o 2012 match statistics for your school?
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I believe about 6-9 matched, don't know the # of applicants though...
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cncop2013,

I know a school in south africa they are looking for a phar.resident...wana go? they might hire u...
 
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Member 5149 said:
Sorry but all the money you guys are dishing on that program is not for slides and summaries. They give you a couple of chapters to read and you're supposed to figure out what to know for the test. There's a P4 from this school doing his rotations w/ us who was wishing they gave him slides like the ones we get LECTURED on. That's the thing, this concept that you're all going to sit around the table in groups of six and teach each other something might work as a 3 credit case study course, which is what most programs are adopting, but to teach each other pharmacy? Ya maybe at Harvard, not at a program where you have an average GPA of 3.2; all that tells you is you have a bunch of lazy students who don't put in the work on time. And from the sound of it, they feed you some b.s. that you're supposed to learn most of the stuff once you're on your rotations; I only have one year under my belt and I can recall more medications and their S.E.'s than this P4.
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never mind about the accreditation and bad reputation, but the fact that they dont teach you or provide summary notes like slides is ridiculous!! i dont know about you but i wouldnt want to pay that amount of money to only to be taught by fellow students. wow, if the professors dont teach and dont give notes, what the hell are they good for?
 
rxfuture said:
never mind about the accreditation and bad reputation, but the fact that they dont teach you or provide summary notes like slides is ridiculous!! i dont know about you but i wouldnt want to pay that amount of money to only to be taught by fellow students. wow, if the professors dont teach and dont give notes, what the hell are they good for?
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And what do you think they did before computers/printers? lol
 
rxfuture said:
never mind about the accreditation and bad reputation, but the fact that they dont teach you or provide summary notes like slides is ridiculous!! i dont know about you but i wouldnt want to pay that amount of money to only to be taught by fellow students. wow, if the professors dont teach and dont give notes, what the hell are they good for?
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Not too long ago when I was in undergrad there was no such thing as power point slides. Professors would stand infront of class and write notes on a chalkboard or overhead projector...we were expected to go to class and take our own notes.
 
KARM12 said:
Not too long ago when I was in undergrad there was no such thing as power point slides. Professors would stand infront of class and write notes on a chalkboard or overhead projector...we were expected to go to class and take our own notes.
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i dont mind taking my own notes. what troubles me is the idea of having students put into groups of six and having to teach one another. i am assuming because the curriculum is TBL they expect you to come to class knowing everything from what you read the night before?
 
rxfuture said:
i dont mind taking my own notes. what troubles me is the idea of having students put into groups of six and having to teach one another. i am assuming because the curriculum is TBL they expect you to come to class knowing everything from what you read the night before?
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Not familar with that type of curriculum...but it seems stupid. I guess it is one way to approach things when you can't find enough faculty.
 
KARM12 said:
Not familar with that type of curriculum...but it seems stupid. I guess it is one way to approach things when you can't find enough faculty.
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It's becoming very common in medical and pharmacy schools. Also known as "problem based learning" or "competency based learning" or other names. It's not a Cal Northstate thing. It's a trendy thing. It still requires the same amount (or more) faculty, by the way.
 
Ackj said:
Probably were taught by the professor, not fellow students.
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I was referring to the PP slides smartie.

Team based learning is pretty popular as A4D points out.

I find, however, that I learn more by self study than I do from a lot of professors. Some are better than others.

I think TBL becomes an issue when there are a lot of people on the team that are sub par. although I think in some ways it can mirror real life...we don't get to pick our colleagues most of the time. If you're working on a team, those skills could be invaluable.
 
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rxlea said:
I was referring to the PP slides smartie.

Team based learning is pretty popular as A4D points out.

I find, however, that I learn more by self study than I do from a lot of professors. Some are better than others.

I think TBL becomes an issue when there are a lot of people on the team that are sub par. although I think in some ways it can mirror real life...we don't get to pick our colleagues most of the time. If you're working on a team, those skills could be invaluable.
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Our labs were TBL... I hated it as a student. But I digress. They actually require MORE faculty than standard lecture format. I helped teach one last fall as a resident. Each lab session required four faculty (at minimum). It's not a way to cut costs, for sure.
 
All4MyDaughter said:
Our labs were TBL... I hated it as a student. But I digress. They actually require MORE faculty than standard lecture format. I helped teach one in the fall. Each lab session required four faculty (at minimum). It's not a way to cut costs, for sure.
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I think I would hate it too. When it comes to schoolwork, I'm a loner. I've heard pros and cons. Higher cost is definitely a con.

It wouldn't seem that TBL would require more faculty. Thanks for sharing with us. Good to know!
 
rxlea said:
I think I would hate it too. When it comes to schoolwork, I'm a loner. I've heard pros and cons. Higher cost is definitely a con.

It wouldn't seem that TBL would require more faculty. Thanks for sharing with us. Good to know!
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We divided our class (about 100 students) into four sections of 6 (or so) groups each. Each large group had a facilitator, so it took four faculty to teach the class. Examinations were labor intensive too. 12 to 15 faculty to hear and grade all the presentations/oral exams.

I don't know how implementing TBL/PBL/whatever across the curriculum would influence faculty levels overall, but I doubt it saves tons of money. Unless they really are just throwing students in a room without appropriate faculty facilitation!
 
prettycat said:
CNCOP2013,

u have no idea what a strong application i have....thats exactlly why i wont be attending...i can do better things in life...better options..better schools......i dont care what u think or say..... and good luckk getting into the residency...where are u planning to go for that???usc:) nice hahhah
ur wrong...i wrote it myslef....every word of it....and it was the best ever...and i will be using the exact same letter to hopefully get to a real school next year:)i'll spend the time to write perfect when i have to....
exactlly school is already behind repair...why do u even care????loooooooooooooooool...with me or without me itll be closed next year hahhahhaha....ur a current student so u got it into this mess not me...ur upset of what u got urself into..and im speaking the truth..so ur taking it out on me....thats not fair.....:(getting into this school was so easy:)..i know i shouldnt go to this school...u didnt:) ill take the credit for that hahha
if u dont have a degree from an accreditated school...U CANT DO ANYTHING ....i might not be the perfect writer..but i know this much.....
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You, luck, You're, myself, Exactly, beyond repair, lol, accredited

I cringe like a little baby every time I read your posts. The pharmacy profession will be truly damned if you got accepted into another school, based on the way you utilize English and behave in the forums. You need to fix the way you write English. Stop writing and acting like a 12 year old.
 
prettycat said:
CNCOP2013,

u have no idea what a strong application i have....thats exactlly why i wont be attending...i can do better things in life...better options..better schools......i dont care what u think or say..... and good luckk getting into the residency...where are u planning to go for that???usc:) nice hahhah
ur wrong...i wrote it myslef....every word of it....and it was the best ever...and i will be using the exact same letter to hopefully get to a real school next year:)i'll spend the time to write perfect when i have to....
exactlly school is already behind repair...why do u even care????loooooooooooooooool...with me or without me itll be closed next year hahhahhaha....ur a current student so u got it into this mess not me...ur upset of what u got urself into..and im speaking the truth..so ur taking it out on me....thats not fair.....:(getting into this school was so easy:)..i know i shouldnt go to this school...u didnt:) ill take the credit for that hahha
if u dont have a degree from an accreditated school...U CANT DO ANYTHING ....i might not be the perfect writer..but i know this much.....
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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." -Aristotle

If you ever want to improve your writing competency you must do it repeatedly. Your approach of just turning it on and off isn't going to make you any better. I'm not trying to be mean, just trying to help.
 
Going through the WASC accreditation notes (I've had quite a bit of wine tonight...so I'm slower than usual, haha), looks like they addressed the Brazill issue and alleged interference by CNCP administration:

WASC Initial Accreditation Team Report said:
During the special visit, the team learned of personnel actions that did not appear to follow the protocols then under development. The team is not able to ascertain whether the protections and processes assured by the AAUP Statement on Academic Freedom and Tenure are fully observed. The current Faculty Manual does not explicate the roles of the Academic Dean, President, and Board of Trustees in faculty dismissals for cause, nor does it set forth any form of review by a faculty committee as provided in paragraph 5 of the section on Academic Tenure of the AAUP Statement. The team recommends that the university continue to develop a clear policy that publicly states its commitment to academic freedom for faculty, staff, and students, and assures that it complies with recognized procedures and academic usages so that it can demonstrate that it acts in accord with its stated commitments. (CFR 1.4) The team recommends that the Board of Trustees review policies on faculty termination to ensure its effective involvement as required by the AAUP Statement, and that it develops Board policy on the relationship of university administration to college administration in carrying out processes for dismissal of college faculty members for cause. (CFR 3.8, 3.9)
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So cool, I can now publicly cite an official report to back up an assertion my source made. :luck:
 
confettiflyer said:
(I've had quite a bit of wine tonight...so I'm slower than usual, haha),
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I think we've found your achilles' heel?

rxlea said:
So, anyone at AACP ? :D
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Indeed I am. It's flippin hot and muggy down here...humans were not meant to live in Florida in the summer.

All of the different factions (new schools and old schools, public schools and private schools) are getting along well...so far.

Most of the folks here have no idea about CNU, and are quite surprised to hear of ACPE's decision.
 
297point1 said:
I think we've found your achilles' heel?



Indeed I am. It's flippin hot and muggy down here...humans were not meant to live in Florida in the summer.

All of the different factions (new schools and old schools, public schools and private schools) are getting along well...so far.

Most of the folks here have no idea about CNU, and are quite surprised to hear of ACPE's decision.
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I'm really bummed I missed it.

:(

Oh well. Hot and muggy isn't good for my hair, anyway :D

I'm definitely going next year. We should meet up for coffee :D
 
UglyCat said:
Leave PrettyCat alone....she's just special. Keep up with whatever you are doing honey; you are the no. 1 in my book. LOL to you PrettyCat. LOL means lots of love. loooooooooooooooooool to you kitten ;)
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Seriously? Making another profile to make it look like someone actually condones your crappy English? Yet another reason I will cringe if you actually get into pharmacy school....
 
cycloketocaine said:
Seriously? Making another profile to make it look like someone actually condones your crappy English? Yet another reason I will cringe if you actually get into pharmacy school....
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She got into Northstate...but I'm still on the fence about considering it a real pharmacy school.
 
cycloketocaine said:
Seriously? Making another profile to make it look like someone actually condones your crappy English? Yet another reason I will cringe if you actually get into pharmacy school....
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Making assumptions and cannot spot out sarcasm.... you, sir, are a fail. LOL. I have said it before, she is special so just ignore her.
 
UglyCat said:
Making assumptions and cannot spot out sarcasm.... you, sir, are a fail. LOL. I have said it before, she is special so just ignore her.
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And this is a post fail.

I'm a chick.
 
cycloketocaine said:
I don't know why you can't get it that this seems sketchy. Chicago State was not accredited three months ago...their status changed last week.
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I'm a Chicago State grad which was about a month ago unaccredited. The moment they found out they sent an informal email to us to let us know the good news...

My ex girlfriend went to California North State for an interview amongst a few... but definitely happy she chose to go to University of Washington instead (albeit an easy pick from a prestige/financial perspective)

Seems a little sketchy though, that's amazing news to faculty/staff so not sure why they would want to hold it, somethings going on. I have a buddy that goes to Cal-North State, my heart goes out to them if the news is bad.
 
Goddamn it cycloketocaine and JamesL1585, do I have to whip out my lecture on the definitions of unaccredited, candidate accredited, and fully accredited?

#$^#&^#@

A4M is right, I should just keep that document open for copy/pasting purposes. Hmph!
 
confettiflyer said:
Goddamn it cycloketocaine and JamesL1585, do I have to whip out my lecture on the definitions of unaccredited, candidate accredited, and fully accredited?

#$^#&^#@

A4M is right, I should just keep that document open for copy/pasting purposes. Hmph!
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Didn't I tell you that you should put it in your sig? I am almost certain I have. ;)
 
confettiflyer said:
Goddamn it cycloketocaine and JamesL1585, do I have to whip out my lecture on the definitions of unaccredited, candidate accredited, and fully accredited?

#$^#&^#@

A4M is right, I should just keep that document open for copy/pasting purposes. Hmph!
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LoL I guess it's been awhile since I've been posting on here, but jeez, when did people start becoming politically correct on SDN!? Missed the memo. But yes, sorry! "They didn't have full accreditation and were there for candidate status... which doesn't matter because they're still not fully accredited by ACPE lol.
 
haha don't worry i'm just messin' around, A4M knows how frustrated I get about semantics.
 
JamesL1585 said:
LoL I guess it's been awhile since I've been posting on here, but jeez, when did people start becoming politically correct on SDN!? Missed the memo. But yes, sorry! "They didn't have full accreditation and were there for candidate status... which doesn't matter because they're still not fully accredited by ACPE lol.
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Well, I'm not sure how "political correctness" is involved here...

But it's not a little error. There is a HUGE difference between "non-accredited" or "unaccredited" and Candidate Status Accreditation. Graduates of Candidate Status schools have all the rights and privileges of graduates from accredited schools, like being able to take the NAPLEX and get a license and practice pharmacy. Graduates from non-accredited schools have none of that.

I know you just misspoke (mis-typed) but I get where confetti is coming from here. People are really bad about tossing around misinformation. :)
 
rxlea said:
Is it just me or is that email not that professional? I mean, the exclamations are a but much. I can see why he would want to tell the students about himself but I think it goes overboard a bit. Or maybe I'm just bitchy :D
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No, I agree, it's one of the first things I thought about while reading it.
 
Nothing new from an SDN perspective, but here's this week's Sacramento Business Journal:

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramen...lawsuit-alleges-colleges-financial-probs.html

Sacramento Business Journal said:
Lawsuit alleges college's financial problems
by Kathy Robertson

A former department chairman claims in a federal lawsuit that Sacramento's new pharmacy school is putting profit before education and is involved in illegal tuition payment schemes.
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also

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramen...-challenges-for-pharmacy-college.html?ana=twt

Sacramento Business Journal said:
New challenges for pharmacy college
Accreditation delay worries students
by Kathy Robertson

California Northstate University College of Pharmacy graduated its first class of 82 students in May — but failed to achieve full professional accreditation as expected this month.
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The article is "premium content" and I won't post it verbatim here for obvious reasons. Please click through and subscribe to read, you get 4 free articles but I think it's like WSJ.
 
Screen shot of the front page:

ScreenShot2012-07-20at61446PM.png
 
Just went to the CNCP website to see if the changed their information about accreditation. See below the legal speak that they posted, from this statement the BOP can at anytime tell the students from a candidate school to go pound sand we decided that we are not going to let you take the board. See if that is how you read it? So the 3rd and 4th years may not be protected! And if you do a steller job we will think about Full Accreditation but if you look at us cross-eyed pull out the "Exit Plan".

"With respect to clarification of the meaning of Candidate accreditation status, graduates of a program so designed would, in the opinion of ACPE, have the same rights and privileges of those graduates from a fully accredited program. The Candidate accreditation status denotes a developmental program that is expected to mature in accord with stated plans within a defined time period. It should be underscored, however, that decisions concerning eligibility for licensure by examination or reciprocity reside with the respective state boards of pharmacy in accordance with their state statutes and administrative rules. Should Candidate accreditation status be awarded to a program, ACPE would, however, make its position known and make recommendations consistent with that position."

"The Doctor of Pharmacy program of the California Northstate was awarded continued Candidate accreditation status during the June 20-24, 2012, meeting of the ACPE Board of Directors based upon an on-site evaluation March 27-29, 2012, and discussion with University and College officials. If the program continues to develop as planned, full accreditation of the Doctor of Pharmacy program will be considered by the Board at the June 2013 Board of Directors meeting."
 
so i just got accepted and this forum is making me doubt the school now...not sure what to do:confused:
 
lakeboy said:
Just went to the CNCP website to see if the changed their information about accreditation. See below the legal speak that they posted, from this statement the BOP can at anytime tell the students from a candidate school to go pound sand we decided that we are not going to let you take the board. See if that is how you read it? So the 3rd and 4th years may not be protected! And if you do a steller job we will think about Full Accreditation but if you look at us cross-eyed pull out the "Exit Plan".

“With respect to clarification of the meaning of Candidate accreditation status, graduates of a program so designed would, in the opinion of ACPE, have the same rights and privileges of those graduates from a fully accredited program. The Candidate accreditation status denotes a developmental program that is expected to mature in accord with stated plans within a defined time period. It should be underscored, however, that decisions concerning eligibility for licensure by examination or reciprocity reside with the respective state boards of pharmacy in accordance with their state statutes and administrative rules. Should Candidate accreditation status be awarded to a program, ACPE would, however, make its position known and make recommendations consistent with that position.”

“The Doctor of Pharmacy program of the California Northstate was awarded continued Candidate accreditation status during the June 20-24, 2012, meeting of the ACPE Board of Directors based upon an on-site evaluation March 27-29, 2012, and discussion with University and College officials. If the program continues to develop as planned, full accreditation of the Doctor of Pharmacy program will be considered by the Board at the June 2013 Board of Directors meeting.”
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Interesting. This means you may graduate from a school with candidate status but the California board of pharmacy may not recognize it and you are not allow to take the licensure examinations.
 
BMBiology said:
Interesting. This means you may graduate from a school with candidate status but the California board of pharmacy may not recognize it and you are not allow to take the licensure examinations.
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What if a student graduates, gets licensed, and afterwards the school loses accreditation? Do all of its graduated pharmacists lose their licenses?

This goes for all pharmacy schools..
 
SeekerofTruth said:
What if a student graduates, gets licensed, and afterwards the school loses accreditation? Do all of its graduated pharmacists lose their licenses?

This goes for all pharmacy schools..
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No, once you are licensed then you are licensed.
 
SeekerofTruth said:
What if a student graduates, gets licensed, and afterwards the school loses accreditation? Do all of its graduated pharmacists lose their licenses?

This goes for all pharmacy schools..
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You would remain licensed. Closest example we have would be the merger of MUSC with the Univ. of SC to form SCCP. The school as it was (MUSC) technically ceased to exist and the successor school had to apply for accreditation de novo. So, in a way, MUSC "ceased" to be accredited.
 
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