Class of 2019!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Errr. If you got a full ride at Wash U, I'd throw a lot of those out the window. If you're chasing a name then okay I guess. Depending on what you're being offered by other schools, having less than 100k of debt upon graduation is amazing.

New Haven is pretty nice, but if the price differential is what it looks like then it'd be hard to pass up wash u if yale won't match the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

If penn does match scholarships to poach students, I might go with penn since philly is ill.

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It's ranked #2 for research, graduates students with some of the least debt of all US MD schools, and the weather is amaaazing! What's not to love?
What's their average indebtedness? Also, what do y'all think about Stanford making tuition free for undergrads coming from families making less than $125k? That seems to be a really high threshold......
 
What's their average indebtedness? Also, what do y'all think about Stanford making tuition free for undergrads coming from families making less than $125k? That seems to be a really high threshold......
$96,385 http://grad-schools.usnews.rankings...ools/top-medical-schools/debt-rankings/page+5 8th lowest of the schools listed. IIRC from the interview day, they offer significant grant money, plus loans through the university that have a lower interest rate than most and don't start accruing interest till after graduation. And you can get significant stipends for research.
 
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$96,385 http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/debt-rankings/page 5 8th lowest of the schools listed. IIRC from the interview day, they offer significant grant money, plus loans through the university that have a lower interest rate than most and don't start accruing interest till after graduation. And you can get significant stipends for research.
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/264/241/9e9.gif - Stanford
 
I think my decision is mostly made, so I don't want to make a thread about it but I'm just looking to bounce it off you all...

  • Northwestern - Loved the opportunities of the school, would probably be the best situation to be happy after moving with my SO, but would probably finish ~180k in debt (need based grant guaranteed for all four years)
  • Einstein - Loved the community feel of the school, but the location would mean that my SO would be commuting ~1 hour each way for work. I've done a long commute for the last couple of years and can attest to how much it sucks out of you and she works long hours already. But would probably finish ~120k in debt (scholarships for all four years)
  • Rochester - Hometown school, the biopsychosocial model fits me perfectly, but the long classroom hours and lack of recorded lectures don't. I also don't feel like I'd get as much experience in a smaller city. Financial aid for first year, unsure how much that would change after getting married after MS1. I'd guess debt would be between 150k and 180k at graduation.
Leaning Northwestern in spite of the cost. Thoughts?
 
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I think my decision is mostly made, so I don't want to make a thread about it but I'm just looking to bounce it off you all...

  • Northwestern - Loved the opportunities of the school, would probably be the best situation to be happy after moving with my SO, but would probably finish ~180k in debt (need based grant guaranteed for all four years)
  • Einstein - Loved the community feel of the school, but the location would mean that my SO would be commuting ~1 hour each way for work. I've done a long commute for the last couple of years and can attest to how much it sucks out of you and she works long hours already. But would probably finish ~120k in debt (scholarships for all four years)
  • Rochester - Hometown school, the biopsychosocial model fits me perfectly, but the long classroom hours and lack of recorded lectures don't. I also don't feel like I'd get as much experience in a smaller city. Financial aid for first year, unsure how much that would change after getting married after MS1. I'd guess debt would be between 150k and 180k at graduation.
Leaning Northwestern in spite of the cost. Thoughts?

I agree. Northwestern seems worth it given your list!
 
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I think my decision is mostly made, so I don't want to make a thread about it but I'm just looking to bounce it off you all...

  • Northwestern - Loved the opportunities of the school, would probably be the best situation to be happy after moving with my SO, but would probably finish ~180k in debt (need based grant guaranteed for all four years)
  • Einstein - Loved the community feel of the school, but the location would mean that my SO would be commuting ~1 hour each way for work. I've done a long commute for the last couple of years and can attest to how much it sucks out of you and she works long hours already. But would probably finish ~120k in debt (scholarships for all four years)
  • Rochester - Hometown school, the biopsychosocial model fits me perfectly, but the long classroom hours and lack of recorded lectures don't. I also don't feel like I'd get as much experience in a smaller city. Financial aid for first year, unsure how much that would change after getting married after MS1. I'd guess debt would be between 150k and 180k at graduation.
Leaning Northwestern in spite of the cost. Thoughts?
Go to Northwestern. The suckiness of long commutes is confirmed by what I learned in Positive Psychology. Not worth it for your SO. Also, don't go to a school where lectures are mandatory and not recorded. That blows on many levels. Depending on specialty, practice type, and financial savvy, you could easily get rid of that 180k debt after residency.
 
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just want to put it out there that the dean of admissions at penn said unlike previous years (no waitlist movement), there will be significant WL movement this year - found out yesterday through guidance counselor. also Penn likes to match full offers from WashU to poach their students

It's unclear. They expect their yield to be different (higher) this year so they're being extremely conservative with admitting people. That said there could be still be 0 waitlist movement if their yield is high enough. They just don't want to end up like Umichigan, bribing people to defer etc.

Full tuition scholarship is pretty damn incredible. Yeah it's 4 years of your life in a location you might not love, but it lets you not live like a resident for 4-8 years after becoming an attending too. If you truly hate WUSTL I'd try to see if say Umichigan could throw any aid your way and commit there. That way you have a school you like if you don't get off the waitlists and you still have the chance for merit aid matching if you do.

FYI to people: you might want to avoid extrapolating average debt to an individual level because often times it is a function of how affluent parents tend to be at top schools. If the average student has a 40k/yr "mom and dad" scholarship that doesn't help you minimize debt.

That being said I have heard that Stanford is generous with their TA program so keep that in mind (in addition to whatever other aid they give you).

Do not worry about match lists. Not only are they very hard for us (inexperienced) people to judge, they are largely a function of selectivity bias. Any top 20 will give you plenty of resources to match anywhere you like and if you do well in an environment that is >>>>> research ranking.

Good luck with your decision, it seems like you really can't go wrong!
 
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I think my decision is mostly made, so I don't want to make a thread about it but I'm just looking to bounce it off you all...

  • Northwestern - Loved the opportunities of the school, would probably be the best situation to be happy after moving with my SO, but would probably finish ~180k in debt (need based grant guaranteed for all four years)
  • Einstein - Loved the community feel of the school, but the location would mean that my SO would be commuting ~1 hour each way for work. I've done a long commute for the last couple of years and can attest to how much it sucks out of you and she works long hours already. But would probably finish ~120k in debt (scholarships for all four years)
  • Rochester - Hometown school, the biopsychosocial model fits me perfectly, but the long classroom hours and lack of recorded lectures don't. I also don't feel like I'd get as much experience in a smaller city. Financial aid for first year, unsure how much that would change after getting married after MS1. I'd guess debt would be between 150k and 180k at graduation.
Leaning Northwestern in spite of the cost. Thoughts?

I wouldn't sweat 120 vs 180k debt. It's an extra half year to a year of paying it off depending on how frugal you want to live/how much you make post-graduation. Just keep in mind the CoL of northwestern, most students don't live near the school after MS1 due to cost.
 
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I agree. Northwestern seems worth it given your list!

Go to Northwestern. The suckiness of long commutes is confirmed by what I learned in Positive Psychology. Not worth it for your SO. Also, don't go to a school where lectures are mandatory and not recorded. That blows on many levels. Depending on specialty, practice type, and financial savvy, you could easily get rid of that 180k debt after residency.

I wouldn't sweat 120 vs 180k debt. It's an extra half year to a year of paying it off depending on how frugal you want to live/how much you make post-graduation. Just keep in mind the CoL of northwestern, most students don't live near the school after MS1 due to cost.

Thanks guys. I have to say turning down Rochester and Einstein is gonna be tough. Those places have a very special feel about them.

PS @resiroth - we're planning on a cheap place on the northside. After New York, the COL everywhere else seems incredibly manageable.
 
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just want to put it out there that the dean of admissions at penn said unlike previous years (no waitlist movement), there will be significant WL movement this year - found out yesterday through guidance counselor. also Penn likes to match full offers from WashU to poach their students
As for Cornell, looking at the Facebook group for class of 2019, it seems like there won't be much movement for them :-/

One can only hope the numbers are illusory, though
 
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so anyone else here doomed to consume matzah and potato-flour based starches for the next 8 days? WHOO!
 
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Predictttt meeeee!!!

What's their average indebtedness? Also, what do y'all think about Stanford making tuition free for undergrads coming from families making less than $125k? That seems to be a really high threshold......

Uh... Is it though? Cost of attendance at most schools is trudging up to the 60K+ level. Given how the cost of college is spiraling out of control due to administrative bloat, that sticker price is HALF the pre-tax income of those families. That's like a family having another mortgage for the next 10-20 year for most families. For an education? That's freaking ridiculous. Sure, an education is an investment, yeah, but it sure as hell ain't no house.

If schools like this can do this using their incredibly gigantic pockets then they ensure that the brightest come to them and help them build more. Doesn't seem 'high' to me. It just depends on what their priorities are.
 
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Haha if you all decide for me that would be great! Might post my pros/cons list tonight.
 
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Uh... Is it though? Cost of attendance at most schools is trudging up to the 60K+ level. Given how the cost of college is spiraling out of control due to administrative bloat, that sticker price is HALF the pre-tax income of those families. That's like a family having another mortgage for the next 10-20 year for most families. For an education? That's freaking ridiculous. Sure, an education is an investment, yeah, but it sure as hell ain't no house.

If schools like this can do this using their incredibly gigantic pockets then they ensure that the brightest come to them and help them build more. Doesn't seem 'high' to me. It just depends on what their priorities are.
And the priorities of the family. If the parents want their child to go to the best school possible, they'll have to find a way to make it work. I know of several people at Wash U who would meet Stanford's criteria who managed to pay full sticker price at Wash U by making monthly payments instead of the 55k/year upfront. I don't want to get into a debate about whether higher education is worth that much (I don't think it is, for both college and med school), but I do think Stanford's upper limit is still high.
 
It's very easy. You've sworn allegiance to Jeff already!

Depends on how the Einstein WL moves to be honest!

And the priorities of the family. If the parents want their child to go to the best school possible, they'll have to find a way to make it work. I know of several people at Wash U who would meet Stanford's criteria who managed to pay full sticker price at Wash U by making monthly payments instead of the 55k/year upfront. I don't want to get into a debate about whether higher education is worth that much (I don't think it is, for both college and med school), but I do think Stanford's upper limit is still high.

Are you insinuating that certain families don't prioritize what's best for their children? There is more to the world than that outside your WashU bubble, because based on what you're saying you're suggesting that the parents of students like @hellanutella didn't want what was best for her.

Honestly, sometimes the things you say really make me scratch my head and wonder what kind of bubble and privilege you've lived in. I know you like throwing that second word around, but I'm not sure you really understand what it means in the real world.
 
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Are you insinuating that certain families don't prioritize what's best for their children? There is more to the world than that outside your WashU bubble, because based on what you're saying you're suggesting that the parents of students like @hellanutella didn't want what was best for her.

Honestly, sometimes the things you say really make me scratch my head and wonder what kind of bubble and privilege you've lived in. I know you like throwing that second word around, but I'm not sure you really understand what it means in the real world.
Yes, there are absolutely parents who exist out there who don't do what's best for their children. They exist in my hometown. They exist (thru their children's actions and words) at Wash U. One of my Wash U friends is from Massachusetts. During every break, her dad (who lives in CT instead of MA) forces her to visit him and make that long commute when she absolutely doesn't want to. That dad makes the claim, "If you don't do this, you don't actually love me and have separation issues".....what a f**king hypocrite. Her mom can't stop him. She hates her dad, and for good reason. Is that what you call a family prioritizing what's best for their child?

I do recognize my own privilege. I'm eternally grateful to have loving parents who have done everything for me. That is why I can't stand parents who don't do sh** for their children. They exist when they really shouldn't.
 
Yes, there are absolutely parents who exist out there who don't do what's best for their children. They exist in my hometown. They exist (thru their children's actions and words) at Wash U. One of my Wash U friends is from Massachusetts. During every break, her dad (who lives in CT instead of MA) forces her to visit him and make that long commute when she absolutely doesn't want to. That dad makes the claim, "If you don't do this, you don't actually love me and have separation issues".....what a f**king hypocrite. Her mom can't stop him. She hates her dad, and for good reason. Is that what you call a family prioritizing what's best for their child?

I do recognize my own privilege. I'm eternally grateful to have loving parents who have done everything for me. That is why I can't stand parents who don't do sh** for their children. They exist when they really shouldn't.

Le sigh.

Just quoting for posterity's sake.
 
And the priorities of the family. If the parents want their child to go to the best school possible, they'll have to find a way to make it work. I know of several people at Wash U who would meet Stanford's criteria who managed to pay full sticker price at Wash U by making monthly payments instead of the 55k/year upfront. I don't want to get into a debate about whether higher education is worth that much (I don't think it is, for both college and med school), but I do think Stanford's upper limit is still high.

That reminds me of when I was deciding where to go to college! I really, really, really, really wanted to go to Vanderbilt (I was accepted there!) because it was in the south (I grew up in North Carolina) and it's a great school with a great medical school. I thought I was going to be able to go there, too, because my parents have always said that they would pay for college/medical school with the understanding that I will take care of them when they get older. Unfortunately, the finances just didn't work out. Although we are probably an middle-upper middle class family, my mom had just quit her job due to health issues and there was no guarantee that they would be able to afford the $60,000/year tuition (still $40,000 after the $20,000 scholarship I was offered) after two years.

So, I was basically told that I had to go to Northeastern because I had a full tuition scholarship there. I think I cried for a couple days because I had worked so hard in high school and the college application process was so rough that it just didn't feel fair that I would have to go to a school I applied early to as a "safety". In the end, I love it here, I love the co-op system, and I am very happy that I will not only graduate with no debt but also with savings due to co-op and being an RA. My parents will have ended up paying around $25,000 in living expenses when I graduate vs. $120,000+. I don't think they love me any less, even though at the time it felt like my dreams were being ripped away from me. As a high school senior I would probably have willed away my parents' savings and retirement fund to allow me a possibly more "fun" or "better" college experience at Vanderbilt and I am very happy that I have matured a bit since then.

P.S. My mom makes me come home a lot too, even though I live like 30 minutes away and she works less than 20 minutes away from my school. I think she would have died of separation anxiety if I went to college even out of state. :p I don't really see a problem with parents wanting to see their children, especially if they're paying $55,000/year in tuition?
 
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There are also parents who want the best for their children, but can't provide those luxuries.
 
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And the priorities of the family. If the parents want their child to go to the best school possible, they'll have to find a way to make it work. I know of several people at Wash U who would meet Stanford's criteria who managed to pay full sticker price at Wash U by making monthly payments instead of the 55k/year upfront. I don't want to get into a debate about whether higher education is worth that much (I don't think it is, for both college and med school), but I do think Stanford's upper limit is still high.

Some families want to send their child to the best school possible, but cannot due to certain factors (mostly financial matters).

For example, my cousin was accepted to MIT and his parents could not stomach the COA so they sent him to UVA...and he flunked out before the end of his first semester simply because he was not happy. I had a friend who had parents that told her she was going to UVA until she was accepted and they received the financial aid package...and they sent her to ODU where she has done wonderfully.

Getting the best education does not mean being sent to the best school possible, it means making the most out of where you can afford. Some families cannot cover the cost of attendance (or even tuition) and they cannot just "make it work".

And this is all assuming parents are even in the picture!
 
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Yeah, I went to the cheapest school I got into for undergrad, all things considered. It just happened to like me the most and throw lots of money at me. It also happened to be the best ranked, but I would likely have followed the money if it was significantly different due to my financial situation. Given that my parents would have had to take an insane amount of loans for me to go to college if my situation hadn't ended up like it did, we probably would have lost our house if my parents had 2-3x the loans for MY undergrad education.

There's just so much more to it than @Ace Khalifa just doesn't seem to grasp yet. He's young though. He can learn. The world is more a prism comprised of shades of grey than totally black and white.
 
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I have ;) you know my prediction!
nooo i know where you think I will be happiest but not the prediction of where i'll end upppp ughhaksjfkladsjfkl;dsajlfk;dajslfdk;jasldk;fjadkls; life

*edit* akjsdflkjasdfdlaksj
 
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Oh believe me, I regularly stalk all y'all on MDApps. I have predictions for everyone. Not to be a total creep or anything...
Are you the Class of 2019 Paul the Octopus?

image-102179-galleryV9-lvaf.jpg


I would ask for a prediction, but I don't think I can hold up my end of the bargain by posting a School X vs. School Y thread for everyone's entertainment. I love reading them too, but I don't think I'll post one. I can't put my finger on why exactly, but I'm just not that open with my decision-making.
 
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nooo i know where you think I will be happiest but not the prediction of where i'll end upppp ughhaksjfkladsjfkl;dsajlfk;dajslfdk;jasldk;fjadkls; life

Try watching this TED Talk about happiness! Well, I guess it more tells you why you're feeling so much anxiety over making decisions and that you really would have been much happier if the decision was made for you. LOL
 
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@dechristine, the friend I was talking about explained her situation as literally, "My dad forces me to visit him, I can't change his mind, he does this manipulative behavior every single time." That is completely different from a normal loving parent wanting to see their children.

@womanofscience, those 2 situations are different from what I'm talking about. Parents who want the best for their children but can't afford it? Sad story. Parents who actively want their child to go to the worse school against the child's wished when they could pay for the more expensive but better school and have no solid, justifiable reason other than, "You have to listen to us because we're your parents?" Bad parents, no sympathy from me.

@ridethecliche, excuse me? I'm naive for thinking bad parents don't exist? Sorry for living in a town full of them. Clearly that clouded my judgment.
 
Yeah, I went to the cheapest school I got into for undergrad, all things considered. It just happened to like me the most and throw lots of money at me. It also happened to be the best ranked, but I would likely have followed the money if it was significantly different due to my financial situation. Given that my parents would have had to take an insane amount of loans for me to go to college if my situation hadn't ended up like it did, we probably would have lost our house if my parents had 2-3x the loans for MY undergrad education.

There's just so much more to it than @Ace Khalifa just doesn't seem to grasp yet. He's young though. He can learn. The world is more a prism comprised of shades of grey than totally black and white.

You guys's parents paid for your college education??
 
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@AceKhalifa if a child wants to go to a school bad enough, then he/she should actively search for scholarships to cover the expenses their parents will not cover. Maybe my perspective is skewed due to my background, but my parent's wealth =/= my wealth.
 
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@dechristine, the friend I was talking about explained her situation as literally, "My dad forces me to visit him, I can't change his mind, he does this manipulative behavior every single time." That is completely different from a normal loving parent wanting to see their children.

@womanofscience, those 2 situations are different from what I'm talking about. Parents who want the best for their children but can't afford it? Sad story. Parents who actively want their child to go to the worse school against the child's wished when they could pay for the more expensive but better school and have no solid, justifiable reason other than, "You have to listen to us because we're your parents?" Bad parents, no sympathy from me.

@ridethecliche, excuse me? I'm naive for thinking bad parents don't exist? Sorry for living in a town full of them. Clearly that clouded my judgment.

I would say they are pretty great parents for paying for their child's education. Parents should not be expected to pay for the child's education. In my examples, these parents wanted the best for their children, but it was not financially feasible to send them to the better school.

Going to the "lower-ranked" school shouldn't matter as long as the student is able to thrive. You have to make the most of what you are given in life...

And my parents did not pay for my education... I thank the Golden Goddesses everyday that my scholarship lined up with my first-choice school.
 
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just got back from a trip to my motherland korea... which also means i haven't been able to go to the gym for 2 weeks :(
has anyone else been doing anything fun before school starts?
 
I so badly want to join this cool group already, but I'm still sitting on waitlists. Le sigh
 
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Yes; monthly payment is a thing.
I don't see how that's relevant. You also keep bringing up monthly payments like it makes it soooo much easier to afford tuition, but I don't see how that's any different from setting aside the money over time beforehand and being able to pay a lump sum at the beginning of the year. If parents haven't been able to do that (due to lifestyle or uncontrollable costs or their own priorities), I wouldn't expect them to be able to make the monthly payments.
 
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just got back from a trip to my motherland korea... which also means i haven't been able to go to the gym for 2 weeks :(
has anyone else been doing anything fun before school starts?

Nice, I hope Korea was fun! I'm visiting family in Taiwan this summer and hoping to visit a few other Asian countries as well. Never been to Korea but I do like Korean food so hopefully I'll get a chance to go there.

But going to Asia always means gaining weight for me due to no exercise and the ridiculous amount of delicious food consumed.
 
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I don't see how that's relevant. You also keep bringing up monthly payments like it makes it soooo much easier to afford tuition, but I don't see how that's any different from setting aside the money over time beforehand and being able to pay a lump sum at the beginning of the year. If parents haven't been able to do that (due to lifestyle or uncontrollable costs or their own priorities), I wouldn't expect them to be able to make the monthly payments.
I have friends whose parents did the monthly like I did and friends with parents who did the lump sum. The parents of the former had to do it this way; they couldn't afford a lump sum. The parents of the latter were well-off enough to do either, but chose to do the lump sum because it was easier than having to remember to make monthly payments. There is definitely a difference.
 
Yes; monthly payment is a thing.

I have friends whose parents did the monthly like I did and friends with parents who did the lump sum. The parents of the former had to do it this way; they couldn't afford a lump sum. The parents of the latter were well-off enough to do either, but chose to do the lump sum because it was easier than having to remember to make monthly payments. There is definitely a difference.

You keep missing the point.

You're acting like monthly payments make it cheaper when it really makes it even more expensive and even then there are people in financial situations that can't afford it, especially if their job isn't set in stone. A lot of people lost a ton of money, or even their home, in the economic downturn recently. Does their unwillingness to take on unnecessary debt on behalf of their child make them a bad parent?

What are you on about?

I knew someone in highschool that got into the naval academy and UPenn, her parents didn't think they should have to finance her education so she had to go to the naval academy. I still don't think they were bad parents.

I think that your definition of bad parenting is incommensurable with mine given what I've seen in highschool. Might just be me though.
 
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I have friends whose parents did the monthly like I did and friends with parents who did the lump sum. The parents of the former had to do it this way; they couldn't afford a lump sum. The parents of the latter were well-off enough to do either, but chose to do the lump sum because it was easier than having to remember to make monthly payments. There is definitely a difference.
But your parents could have set aside the same amount of money each month for one year before you went to college and then paid in lump sum. Then done the same during your first year to pay for your second year. I agree that the parents who tend to pay in lump sum probably have more in savings/investments than those who pay monthly, but I don't think that gap is nearly as significant/meaningful as the gap between those who can pay full tuition vs. those who cannot.
 
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