LMU c/o 2018 applicants

[allygator13]

What do all of you critics believe would happen if LMU only offered the 85 seats and gave them till April 15th to take them, and no once else could have them. Then if some of the students offered a seat wait until the last day, and decide "to hell with LMU, I want to be a PennWe (or whatever other school)" then LMU is left without a full class and no more time to fill it because that deadline is passed.

That's when they go to the waitlist, just like every other school in the country does.

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[dyachei]

What do all of you critics believe would happen if LMU only offered the 85 seats and gave them till April 15th to take them, and no once else could have them. Then if some of the students offered a seat wait until the last day, and decide "to hell with LMU, I want to be a PennWe (or whatever other school)" then LMU is left without a full class and no more time to fill it because that deadline is passed.

Just saying... I understand the frustration of students who had a chance to have a spot in the class, and are now on waitlist, but to me, that sounds like it's their own fault. The only reason a student would wait to accept their spot is because they want to see where else they can get in (which generally means they don't think LMU is good enough for them). In that case, good riddance. I (and presumably the other students and the staff members) would rather associate with students that believe in LMU and wouldn't rather go somewhere else.

In the case of students who waited because they thought they had to pay their matriculation fee at the time of accepting a seat, that is your fault entirely. I went through the ENTIRE admission process, and not once does it say you have to pay the matriculation fee at the time of accepting a seat. In fact, Dr. Schadler specifically states when you speak/email with him that once you indicate your acceptance of a seat, you will then get papers mailed to you about your acceptance, and matriculation processes. So, while that is unfortunate, still not the schools fault.

But y'all are right, the school should reward students that do not take the initiative to call the school and ask about the admission or matriculation process (which I know Dr. Schadler and anyone else who sends emails on behalf of LMU states at the end every time to call if you have any questions), or that want to wait in hopes of getting in somewhere else, because they obviously are committed to getting a DVM from LMU.
I'm sorry this happened to some, but to blame it on the school is childish. The responsibility falls on each and every student. (In case you couldn't tell, I don't think y'all are right, that was sarcasm)

I think a lot of people are confusing being offered admission, and being accepted. They are two different things in this case. You have to accept your seat to be considered accepted. Being offered admission is simply saying "If you choose to accept your seat, we will grant you admission into our vet school".

BTW, why all these people commenting that already are attending vet school is beyond me. Not sure why this matters to you, but it'd be appreciated if you quit attempting to create even more conflict than there already is, why don't you all bounce back to your own SDN thread. Thanks =)

1) That's why schools have waitlists
2) mostly because we've been through the process and this is not normal.

 

[NStarz]

What do all of you critics believe would happen if LMU only offered the 85 seats and gave them till April 15th to take them, and no once else could have them. Then if some of the students offered a seat wait until the last day, and decide "to hell with LMU, I want to be a PennWe (or whatever other school)" then LMU is left without a full class and no more time to fill it because that deadline is passed.

Just saying... I understand the frustration of students who had a chance to have a spot in the class, and are now on waitlist, but to me, that sounds like it's their own fault. The only reason a student would wait to accept their spot is because they want to see where else they can get in (which generally means they don't think LMU is good enough for them). In that case, good riddance. I (and presumably the other students and the staff members) would rather associate with students that believe in LMU and wouldn't rather go somewhere else.

In the case of students who waited because they thought they had to pay their matriculation fee at the time of accepting a seat, that is your fault entirely. I went through the ENTIRE admission process, and not once does it say you have to pay the matriculation fee at the time of accepting a seat. In fact, Dr. Schadler specifically states when you speak/email with him that once you indicate your acceptance of a seat, you will then get papers mailed to you about your acceptance, and matriculation processes. So, while that is unfortunate, still not the schools fault.

But y'all are right, the school should reward students that do not take the initiative to call the school and ask about the admission or matriculation process (which I know Dr. Schadler and anyone else who sends emails on behalf of LMU states at the end every time to call if you have any questions), or that want to wait in hopes of getting in somewhere else, because they obviously are committed to getting a DVM from LMU.
I'm sorry this happened to some, but to blame it on the school is childish. The responsibility falls on each and every student. (In case you couldn't tell, I don't think y'all are right, that was sarcasm)

I think a lot of people are confusing being offered admission, and being accepted. They are two different things in this case. You have to accept your seat to be considered accepted. Being offered admission is simply saying "If you choose to accept your seat, we will grant you admission into our vet school".

BTW, why all these people commenting that already are attending vet school is beyond me. Not sure why this matters to you, but it'd be appreciated if you quit attempting to create even more conflict than there already is, why don't you all bounce back to your own SDN thread. Thanks =)

We care because, by using VMCAS, the schools sign a contract that say THAT STUDENTS ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE UNTIL APRIL 15th TO HOLD ONTO ALL OFFERS OF ADMISSION. I don't know how many times people can say the same thing. This is NOT RIGHT.

 

[devyn]

BTW, why all these people commenting that already are attending vet school is beyond me. Not sure why this matters to you, but it'd be appreciated if you quit attempting to create even more conflict than there already is, why don't you all bounce back to your own SDN thread. Thanks =)

The prevet forum would not exist and function without the help of current veterinary students and veterinarians willing to answer questions of prevets..... we are here to help guide prevets through the application process and instead of having a disrespectful attitude towards those who are trying to be helpful perhaps you could see that those people have been through the process and might have some idea as to what they are talking about..... hmmmmmm

novel idea....

 

[orca2011]

Someone might not have accepted their seat because they might actually have an IS school that sends out invitations/acceptances later than this. I know of several schools that were still sending things out while this class was apparently filling up and was deemed full. With the cost of everything, each student deserves to have the full amount of time to come to their decision. It is entirely possible to love two programs but maybe have other factors that play into a decision, such as a spouse, hell, even kids for some people. Many people on here try to take into consideration if their SO/spouse, etc can get a job where they have been accepted. And it takes time for them to get the job and look around. That doesn't happen in a day.

As for worrying about whether or not they'd fill the class at all, it is 100% acceptable to put students on a wait list right way. It was unethical (in my mind) to say they were offered a seat and then put them on a wait list for not responding before a deadline that the school agreed upon with VMCAS. I have immediately been placed on several wait lists after interview. I had no problem with that and just had to wait.

 

[beaverboy]

=)

 

[beaverboy]

The prevet forum would not exist and function without the help of current veterinary students and veterinarians willing to answer questions of prevets..... we are here to help guide prevets through the application process and instead of having a disrespectful attitude towards those who are trying to be helpful perhaps you could see that those people have been through the process and might have some idea as to what they are talking about..... hmmmmmm

novel idea....

I will not take the guidance from someone who just wants to cause issues. Maybe if students accepted their spots, they'd have a seat. I do, and so do 85 other people, so it must not be that hard. Besides, I got into a vet school, and had other options than LMU without your "help" so why would I listen now when it's all negative?

 

[DVMDream]

What do all of you critics believe would happen if LMU only offered the 85 seats and gave them till April 15th to take them, and no once else could have them. Then if some of the students offered a seat wait until the last day, and decide "to hell with LMU, I want to be a PennWe (or whatever other school)" then LMU is left without a full class and no more time to fill it because that deadline is passed.

This is 100% untrue. They would do what every other vet school in the country does, go to the waitlist. That is what it is there for. No other school in the US sends out offers of admission (since we want to be technical here) and then says, "oops, seats full, you are SOL, here is a waitlist for you." Every school does create a waitlist BUT they put students on the waitlist THEN offer admission, not the other way around. Many schools have and do fill seats the day before to sometimes even a week after classes start.

Just saying... I understand the frustration of students who had a chance to have a spot in the class, and are now on waitlist, but to me, that sounds like it's their own fault. The only reason a student would wait to accept their spot is because they want to see where else they can get in (which generally means they don't think LMU is good enough for them). In that case, good riddance. I (and presumably the other students and the staff members) would rather associate with students that believe in LMU and wouldn't rather go somewhere else.

If you think the ONLY reason that people do not automatically accept the offer is because they don't think the school is good enough then you are seriously dumb. There are many reasons to wait on accepting an offer. Many people might just be waiting to see if their IS school will offer them admission. That isn't them thinking LMU is a bad school, that is them wanting to be close to home and wanting to save money on tuition (which is a very smart thing to do).

In the case of students who waited because they thought they had to pay their matriculation fee at the time of accepting a seat, that is your fault entirely. I went through the ENTIRE admission process, and not once does it say you have to pay the matriculation fee at the time of accepting a seat. In fact, Dr. Schadler specifically states when you speak/email with him that once you indicate your acceptance of a seat, you will then get papers mailed to you about your acceptance, and matriculation processes. So, while that is unfortunate, still not the schools fault.

It might be true that students mistakenly thought they needed to send in a deposit for their seat to be held. After all, that is the policy at all other 28 vet schools in the US, so why would they think any different? But, you might be right here that, that was the students mistake. According to a contract through LMU and the AAVMC, however, those students should not need to worry about that as they don't have until the class is filled, they have until April 15th, end of story. No ifs, ands or buts. If LMU did NOT want to follow the April 15th guideline, then they could have said no, but they did not. That IS 1,000% LMU's fault; not the students. The students did NOT make LMU sign that contract.

But y'all are right, the school should reward students that do not take the initiative to call the school and ask about the admission or matriculation process (which I know Dr. Schadler and anyone else who sends emails on behalf of LMU states at the end every time to call if you have any questions), or that want to wait in hopes of getting in somewhere else, because they obviously are committed to getting a DVM from LMU.
I'm sorry this happened to some, but to blame it on the school is childish. The responsibility falls on each and every student. (In case you couldn't tell, I don't think y'all are right, that was sarcasm)

The blame for this is 100% on the school for having a poor admissions procedure. Every student that was sent an offer of admission, (By the way, since you seem to not know, the other US schools send offers of admission too, but they don't go back on their offers) should be given the chance to accept that offer up until the date of April 15th. The school IS responsible for its admission procedures and policies. The school IS responsible for signing the AAVMC/VMCAS date of April 15th. It is NOT up to the students to make sure the school creates a good admissions procedure and policy so that they don't over accept too many students and up with a bigger class size than anticipated. To put the blame on students for LMU's poor procedures and poor planning is childish and unprofessional.

I think a lot of people are confusing being offered admission, and being accepted. They are two different things in this case. You have to accept your seat to be considered accepted. Being offered admission is simply saying "If you choose to accept your seat, we will grant you admission into our vet school".

This is how every US vet school runs. You are offered admission. You can accept or deny. If you accept by April 15th you are in. If you don't you lose your seat. No school tells a student that was offered admission that they can not come and are now on a waitlist. Well, no school, but LMU. Many of the US schools have increased their class sizes because more people accepted the offer of admission than they anticipated. It happens, it is the school's responsibility to make good on their admissions offer as per AAVMC/VMCAS guidelines.

BTW, why all these people commenting that already are attending vet school is beyond me. Not sure why this matters to you, but it'd be appreciated if you quit attempting to create even more conflict than there already is, why don't you all bounce back to your own SDN thread. Thanks =)

BTW, why are people who obviously have not seen admissions of vet schools for many years coming on here to defend one school that performed admissions poorly?

You guys seriously take things way too sensitively... not a single person has attacked the school and said they are horrible. They have only said, I sure hope this gets looked into and resolved for the following year. Not just for those students who were accepted and are now devastated that they don't have a spot, but also for those students who have been accepted and might be looking at a class size that is so large it can not adequately accommodate for everyone and thus making a stressful school environment for all involved.

 

[DVMDream]

I will not take the guidance from someone who just wants to cause issues. Maybe if students accepted their spots, they'd have a seat. I do, and so do 85 other people, so it must not be that hard. Besides, I got into a vet school, and had other options than LMU without your "help" so why would I listen now when it's all negative?

It isn't negative, it is called realistic.

And obviously you need some "help" as you don't even seem to understand admissions procedures at all. For someone who claims to have been through the process with more than one school you are clearly very clueless.

 

[beaverboy]

That's when they go to the waitlist, just like every other school in the country does.

if people wait till April 15th to decide where they go, one day isn't enough to contact other students from the waitlist and have them sign all the papers and send a check.

 

[beaverboy]

We care because, by using VMCAS, the schools sign a contract that say THAT STUDENTS ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE UNTIL APRIL 15th TO HOLD ONTO ALL OFFERS OF ADMISSION. I don't know how many times people can say the same thing. This is NOT RIGHT.

Btw. Their offer of admission still stands, there just aren't places to fill currently, so technically they still hold onto their offer of admission.

 

[dyachei]

if people wait till April 15th to decide where they go, one day isn't enough to contact other students from the waitlist and have them sign all the papers and send a check.

nope. but you get until the start of school in those cases.

 

[orca2011]

if people wait till April 15th to decide where they go, one day isn't enough to contact other students from the waitlist and have them sign all the papers and send a check.

Speaking from someone who has been called off the wait list, you are called after April 15th. Not before. You have 48 hours (depending on the school) to accept that offer of admission and THEN you send the check. They don't need it the day they accept you.

 

[devyn]

I will not take the guidance from someone who just wants to cause issues. Maybe if students accepted their spots, they'd have a seat. I do, and so do 85 other people, so it must not be that hard. Besides, I got into a vet school, and had other options than LMU without your "help" so why would I listen now when it's all negative?

You came on here and this was your first post.... seems you are the one who wants to cause issues.....

The point is is that is not how vet school admission works..... get your head out of your arse and pay attention. I am happy for you that you have a spot, but think for once about someone other than yourself.

And seeing as this is your first time on the forum.... you really have no ability to comment on anything in regards to how this forum is run or how the vet students and vets are utilised to help the prevets. And since you seem not to need any of us, you could probably just unsub and go back to getting ready for next year at LMU.

 

[DVMDream]

if people wait till April 15th to decide where they go, one day isn't enough to contact other students from the waitlist and have them sign all the papers and send a check.

Um, people offered admission have until April 15th. After that date then waitlisted people have time to decide if they want to accept an offer should they get off the waitlist. Not sure where you are getting this one day idea....

 

[beaverboy]

It isn't negative, it is called realistic.

And obviously you need some "help" as you don't even seem to understand admissions procedures at all. For someone who claims to have been through the process with more than one school you are clearly very clueless.

I hope you feel better about yourself after today, arguing about a school you are not going to attend that is in it's first round of operating. You made the world a better place.

 

[beaverboy]

You came on here and this was your first post.... seems you are the one who wants to cause issues.....

The point is is that is not how vet school admission works..... get your head out of your arse and pay attention. I am happy for you that you have a spot, but think for once about someone other than yourself.

And seeing as this is your first time on the forum.... you really have no ability to comment on anything in regards to how this forum is run or how the vet students and vets are utilised to help the prevets. And since you seem not to need any of us, you could probably just unsub and go back to getting ready for next year at LMU.

Been here before, never need to say much. When all I see is people complaining, then I decided I would get on and let you know that your comments are appreciated.

 

[dyachei]

I hope you feel better about yourself after today, arguing about a school you are not going to attend that is in it's first round of operating. You made the world a better place.

don't you think it's better to expose any issues now? So that they can fix them?

 

[allygator13]

if people wait till April 15th to decide where they go, one day isn't enough to contact other students from the waitlist and have them sign all the papers and send a check.

You actually have zero idea how the admissions process works, clearly.

 

[NStarz]

Btw. Their offer of admission still stands, there just aren't places to fill currently, so technically they still hold onto their offer of admission.

Um, no. Offer of admission = seat at vet school. You are arguing semantics, but the difference is black and white.

 

[devyn]

Been here before, never need to say much. When all I see is people complaining, then I decided I would get on and let you know that your comments are appreciated.

awww thanks... I know they are appreciated

 

[nicolette_mae]

Delete.

 

[beaverboy]

don't you think it's better to expose any issues now? So that they can fix them?

Oh definitely, and I am sure they know there are issues without people getting on and essentially bashing on them. There is a reason there is a "probationary" period with the AAVMC. To work out all of the issues like this. You think they need to hear it from vet students at other schools? No, they will hear enough internally AND through the AAVMC. This thread is not helping any students for the c/o 2018, which is it's intended purpose. It is has become a place for people to come and complain, or argue (myself included).

 

[beaverboy]

Regardless of what we all say/do on this thread, there won't be any major changes to what has already happened. The changes will not happen on SDN either. Instead of focusing on anything that has gone wrong so far, shouldn't the help be pointed elsewhere?

 

[allieoop2714]

Although this thread has been entertaining to read, I don't think there's anything anyone can say to convince these people that what LMU did is not normal. They're just going to continue to ignore the obvious.

 

[NStarz]

I'm procrastinating studying for respiratory either way...might as well do it on here

 

[dyachei]

Regardless of what we all say/do on this thread, there won't be any major changes to what has already happened. The changes will not happen on SDN either. Instead of focusing on anything that has gone wrong so far, shouldn't the help be pointed elsewhere?

really? SDN has elicited some changes and has brought some issues to light. So, try again.

 

[DVMDream]

I hope you feel better about yourself after today, arguing about a school you are not going to attend that is in it's first round of operating. You made the world a better place.

Yes, because it is all about the school and making sure the school is in good standing.

Why should we gave a rat's ass about the other students who spent hundreds of dollars to apply, countless hours at school, countless hours gaining experience, and countless hours filling out the application? Why should we care about the students who went and interviewed and were accepted and are now being told no because the school won't follow policy?

We should all feel bad about poor LMU, the new school, in its first round of operating.... (psst, Midwestern is also in its first round and these problems have not occurred).

Nope, I will stand up for the people that I think are being wronged. If I thought it was the school, I would back them up; I think the school had a bad first run. Big deal. They just need to own up to it and deal with it professionally.

You and your other LMU friends who have claimed their seat, need to get a thing called a heart and feelings for others that are or have been hurt by this process.

It amazes me how a group of people can so adamantly stick up for a school that they have not even attended, but not only that they can outright ATTACK those that have been hurt by the way the school performed its admissions.

You do realize, that you can disagree with something that your school does without it looking bad upon yourself? You do realize that most vet schools will ask students for constructive criticism about the program as you are going through it? You can't always just kiss their butt and agree.... you can say, "hey I think this needs to be changed" or "hey this might be better than this". My school asks students all the time our thoughts and opinions. It is NOT a bad thing to disagree with something your school has done. I get you are all very excited to go and start vet school, but you are allowed to step back and say, "Hey, I am thrilled I got a seat here and I am looking forward to attending, but I sure hope they figure out admissions so that they aren't hurting any more people in the future." That is NOT a bad thing to say.

 

[orca2011]

I'm personally on spring break, so I actually don't have anything to do.

And we're posting, because whether or not you can see it, we do care about our colleagues. I don't want future grads to be looked at in a different way because of where they attended. It's definitely not as common as it once was, but people are constantly still expressing concerns over rankings, attending UK/Caribbean schools, so the worry/idea is still out there. This whole situation is definitely something that can cause that kind of opinion and it's not fair to the students.

 

[nicolette_mae]

delete.

 

[dyachei]

But the problem is being handled... why are we still talking about it?

it's never a bad thing to have discussions

 

[nicolette_mae]

delete.

 

[dyachei]

Not when people are insulting each other. That is unprofessional.

I agree. Nobody should be insulting anyone else. It goes BOTH ways.

But telling people to get out of your sandbox is also unprofessional.

 

[DVMDream]

Not when people are insulting each other. That is unprofessional.

Do you mean you telling me that I shouldn't post here because I am already a vet student? Or the way you have posted towards those that did not claim their seats? Those could all be considered insults.

Or how about everything beaverboy has said? He has insulted everyone here.

Who is insulting who?

You have, as a whole group, showed that you don't have much sympathy for those in the bad predicament... so me saying you need to get a heart is a reflection upon that. It is not intended as an insult. It is saying that you have all been rater unsympathetic this whole time and I apologize if that comes off as an insult, it is just my opinion based upon what has been posted here.

I'm sorry that this is happening. For you (I know this has been stressful for you and those with seats too), for those that are now waitlisted, for the school too. I don't think the school did this maliciously. I don't think that was their intent. I think they just made a mistake. Mistakes happen. What will probably happen, is this whole thing will get resolved one way or another (we honestly will probably never find out as I doubt VMCAS can tell us publicly what an investigation discovered) and things will hopefully be improved next year.

What I really hope also happens, is that some of you realize that you can speak up about things you think a school is doing wrong. And that they will ask you for your opinion. It will be very hard to give your honest opinion if you are always just wanting to back up the school and whatever they do or say. I hope that doesn't become a reflex for you and other LMU students that have posted here.

 

[dvmhopeful2018]

This is 100% untrue. They would do what every other vet school in the country does, go to the waitlist. That is what it is there for. No other school in the US sends out offers of admission (since we want to be technical here) and then says, "oops, seats full, you are SOL, here is a waitlist for you." Every school does create a waitlist BUT they put students on the waitlist THEN offer admission, not the other way around. Many schools have and do fill seats the day before to sometimes even a week after classes start.

If you want to be technical, they called and offered the person a seat in the class. They did not send out official letters of acceptance until February 18th.

 

[NStarz]

Hi All,

I wanted to give you all a status update. I have spoken with the AAVMC Admissions & Recruitment Committee, with the Executive Director of AAVMC and with LMU directly and there's a couple of things I have to pass on to you:

• It is regular practice for veterinary schools to send more offer letters than have seats available. This typically balances out as students make their decisions and inform schools of their intent to attend (or not). More often than not, schools honor all offers even if it's slightly above the number of seats available. That's only fair.
• Waitlisting is a regular process and more often than not, as students inform schools that they've accepted a seat elsewhere, students are givens seats.
• The question for LMU was whether or not they are prepared to make good on all the offers sent. The response was that they have every intention to honor all offer letters sent out. I believe that LMU has every intention to do so, even it if means appealing to AVMA/COE to bump up the class size, but that remains to be seen.
• The Admissions & Recruitment Committee is sending out a reminder to all AAVMC Member Institutions regarding the AAVMC's April 15th Acceptance Policy, and is considering what options there may be should a school be found in violation of the policy, which by the way is VERY rare. Again, outcome remains to be seen.
• I will be presenting a discussion of this issue and the policy at the AAVMC Board of Directors at our March meeting. We will specifically be discussing the language in letters of offer and acceptance letters, as this seems to be the cause of confusion this year as well as the importance of honoring offers sent.
• As a result of this issue, I will be forming an applicant/student advisory panel to work with the AAVMC, VMCAS, and the Admissions & Recruitment Committee. Involvement on behalf of applicants & students is critical to AAVMC, VMCAS, and Veterinary Schools. [more to come on this soon!]

I appreciate all of your feedback on this topic. It's important that you all understand that students & applicants DO have a voice, and that you ARE heard! I'll update you as I hear more.

TW

Have you guys seen this post?

 

[NStarz]

If you want to be technical, they called and offered the person a seat in the class. They did not send out official letters of acceptance until February 18th.

That is the same thing. Offered a seat = acceptance to the school.

 

[DVMDream]

If you want to be technical, they called and offered the person a seat in the class. They did not send out official letters of acceptance until February 18th.

I believe Ohio State also calls students first to offer a seat and then sends out a letter later. I think it is Ohio, but it could be another school. There are other schools that do this as well. So I am not sure what your point is here?

 

[allygator13]

I believe Ohio State also calls students first to offer a seat and then sends out a letter later. I think it is Ohio, but it could be another school. There are other schools that do this as well. So I am not sure what your point is here?

Lots of schools do, I know Auburn does this as well.

 

[beaverboy]

So, even though I am very passionate about what I believe.. and can be overzealous I do want EVERYONE to know I take their comments seriously. I have been reviewing emails, and documents I have received regarding LMU... and I am pretty sure I have found the cause of the issue.
Something about the way LMU uses: "Offered admission", "Accepted" and "Matriculation" doesn't add up.

From what I have heard, all schools offer more admission than they have places for? And at other schools, once you "Accept" your offer that means you are 100% going to attend the school correct? When you "Accept", you are required to pay the Matriculation fee...I am pretty sure this is where the issue is.

According to what I have been told from fellow classmates and also LMU staff, at LMU-CVM, once you "Accept", it actually doesn't mean anything. In this system, sending in your Matriculation fee, is when you are inked into the class for sure. It seems as though most students didn't know you could "Accept" and not pay the fee till April 15th, and that once you "accepted" you were essentially in the same status as people that were just offered admission at other schools.

To me, it seems like this is the area of concern.

So LMU seems to not "actually" offer admission until you accept (not saying thats the right thing to do). Then your spot is held for you (which is akin to when other schools offer admission). Then when you pay the matriculation fee at LMU, this is when other schools you would accept your offer and pay the fee. From everything I have seen, this seems to be the main cause of concern for this topic.

 

[LetItSnow]

What do all of you critics believe would happen if LMU only offered the 85 seats and gave them till April 15th to take them, and no once else could have them. Then if some of the students offered a seat wait until the last day, and decide "to hell with LMU, I want to be a PennWe (or whatever other school)" then LMU is left without a full class and no more time to fill it because that deadline is passed.

You mean - gasp - what would happen if LMU did it like every other school? Accept a certain number, wait until the April 15th deadline, see where they are at, and then send more invites out?

What a novel concept. It's a wonder that LMU couldn't be bothered to follow it like ... um ... every other vet school.

Just saying... I understand the frustration of students who had a chance to have a spot in the class, and are now on waitlist, but to me, that sounds like it's their own fault. The only reason a student would wait to accept their spot is because they want to see where else they can get in (which generally means they don't think LMU is good enough for them).

That is precisely the purpose of the AAVMC/VMCAS agreement that schools sign in exchange for utilizing the application service: so that students get responses from all schools to which they apply so they can make a decision without feeling pressured to take the first one that responds. Students win that way. SCHOOLS win because they can take whatever time they need to process applications; one school that doesn't do interviews would have an inherent advantage over schools that do if it were a first-come, first-serve approach like you're suggesting it should be.

Your suggestion is irresponsible, uninformed, bad for students, and bad for schools.

I think a lot of people are confusing being offered admission, and being accepted. They are two different things in this case. You have to accept your seat to be considered accepted. Being offered admission is simply saying "If you choose to accept your seat, we will grant you admission into our vet school".

You need to stop talking now, because you're sputtering nonsense and have no idea what you're talking about.

BTW, why all these people commenting that already are attending vet school is beyond me. Not sure why this matters to you, but it'd be appreciated if you quit attempting to create even more conflict than there already is, why don't you all bounce back to your own SDN thread. Thanks =)

.... says the person who created an account just to spew nonsense into the thread? The only thing I'm confused about is whether you're trolling, or whether you actually believe what you're saying. Either way, it's nonsense.

I will not take the guidance from someone who just wants to cause issues. Maybe if students accepted their spots, they'd have a seat. I do, and so do 85 other people, so it must not be that hard. Besides, I got into a vet school, and had other options than LMU without your "help" so why would I listen now when it's all negative?

Unreal. I have rarely seen this level of immaturity on SDN. It's very disturbing.

 

[beaverboy]

Or how about everything beaverboy has said? He has insulted everyone here.

Who is insulting who?

You have, as a whole group, showed that you don't have much sympathy for those in the bad predicament... so me saying you need to get a heart is a reflection upon that. It is not intended as an insult. It is saying that you have all been rater unsympathetic this whole time and I apologize if that comes off as an insult, it is just my opinion based upon what has been posted here.

I would like to say I said multiple times I am sorry for those this has happened to and I understand the frustration, so I do show sympathy... and I apologize for insulting people, I said in my post just a few minutes ago, I am extremely passionate, and while I may have mistook the intentions of peoples' posts, I saw multiple posts that had negativity towards students that may graduate/attend LMU-CVM prior to ever posting on here. So this began long before I jumped in the mix.

I understand I acted too quickly with my emotions, and take ownership of that, however It is does kind of come off as you all insulting those who are already in at LMU by saying all these people that haven't accepted spots should get them, because for all I(or anyone else) know(s), I could have been one of the last few interviewed and offered, but still be as qualified as those interviewed and offered first that have waited.Interviewing different people over a couple month period of time might be a part of the problem thats occurring as well.

 

[DVMDream]

I understand I acted too quickly with my emotions, and take ownership of that, however It is does kind of come off as you all insulting those who are already in at LMU by saying all these people that haven't accepted spots should get them, because for all I(or anyone else) know(s), I could have been one of the last few interviewed and offered, but still be as qualified as those interviewed and offered first that have waited.Interviewing different people over a couple month period of time might be a part of the problem thats occurring as well.

How is this insulting you? You were offered admission too.... I am not suggesting they give your spot to someone else. I am saying they need to follow what every other US vet school does and make good on every offer of admission they sent out.

I have no doubt that their admissions procedure was not the best. Interviewing people in groups over a few months is not the way to go. You can do that, but then offers of admission should be given at the very end of the entire interview process, not throughout the process. This would save them a lot of headache.

 

[LetItSnow]

I just want to know why you all think LMU isn't going to honor their admittance when nothing has been said about it. They have never once said, you're not coming. They never said this waitlist was like a typical waitlist. They haven't said anything. You all are just assuming that since you're on the "waitlist" you're not getting in. That may not be true.

LOL. It is amazing the lengths you will go to to bury your head in the sand. First you went with "we don't know everything!" Then you went with an intentional misreading of the email that was posted. Now you're on to "their waitlist isn't a typical waitlist."

Um... Yeah.... I can't wait to see what's next.

How about we all just stop arguing and if you want to call or email LMU and talk to them about what they plan to do, then fine. But right now, continuing a 2 week argument on here is going to get nothing done. I know I have homework to do and exams to study for, and I'm sure all of you vet students have exams and the actual veterinarians probably have patients they need to take care of.

So go do that stuff and quit throwing out ridiculous defenses of a school that CLEARLY has some very, very sketchy admissions processes going on.

The only way it will get fixed is if it gets attention. That's how big organizations work. If they do something sketchy and quietly get away with it, they will continue. Putting a big spotlight on things like this is what forces large organizations to correct their practices.

That's my motivation: because I care about vet students and vet schools in the U.S. and if LMU is going to join the field then they damn well better do an upstanding job of it. And right now they aren't.

If talking about it here bothers you that much - just remember that nobody but you is forcing you to participate.

 

[orca2011]

I would like to say I said multiple times I am sorry for those this has happened to and I understand the frustration, so I do show sympathy... and I apologize for insulting people, I said in my post just a few minutes ago, I am extremely passionate, and while I may have mistook the intentions of peoples' posts, I saw multiple posts that had negativity towards students that may graduate/attend LMU-CVM prior to ever posting on here. So this began long before I jumped in the mix.

I understand I acted too quickly with my emotions, and take ownership of that, however It is does kind of come off as you all insulting those who are already in at LMU by saying all these people that haven't accepted spots should get them, because for all I(or anyone else) know(s), I could have been one of the last few interviewed and offered, but still be as qualified as those interviewed and offered first that have waited.Interviewing different people over a couple month period of time might be a part of the problem thats occurring as well.

The date of interviews wouldn't be a problem if you had until April 15 to accept your offer. My school is still currently interviewing students and has been since January. Many other schools interview over several weeks. We don't have this issue and still send out offers of admission if a student meets the criteria.

 

[beaverboy]

How is this insulting you? You were offered admission too.... I am not suggesting they give your spot to someone else. I am saying they need to follow what every other US vet school does and make good on every offer of admission they sent out.

I have no doubt that their admissions procedure was not the best. Interviewing people in groups over a few months is not the way to go. You can do that, but then offers of admission should be given at the very end of the entire interview process, not throughout the process. This would save them a lot of headache.

I definitely agree.. And I put the disclaimer that I may have mistaken peoples' intentions, it just comes off that way in my mind at first glance. Hopefully, this won't be a problem come next year.

 

[LetItSnow]

What I really hope also happens, is that some of you realize that you can speak up about things you think a school is doing wrong. And that they will ask you for your opinion. It will be very hard to give your honest opinion if you are always just wanting to back up the school and whatever they do or say. I hope that doesn't become a reflex for you and other LMU students that have posted here.

There are people like that at every school, I imagine. We have them here, too. I think they are so afraid of conflict that they just do everything they can to pretend there is never anything wrong. Either that or their self-image is so tied up in the things/groups they are associated with (like, oh, a vet school) that any criticism of that vet school is seen as a personal attack.

I dunno. Those are the only reasons I can think of for such outrageously defensive responses to what is obviously a really sketchy deal going down at LMU this cycle.

 

[beaverboy]

The date of interviews wouldn't be a problem if you had until April 15 to accept your offer. My school is still currently interviewing students and has been since January. Many other schools interview over several weeks. We don't have this issue and still send out offers of admission if a student meets the criteria.

The only thing I think would be negative about that, is what if the school offered to someone really early on that just met the criteria, and then didn't have the room if they interviewed someone that was an amazing candidate at the end of the interview range? I only ask because I am truly curious. The other schools I had the invitation to interview for did all of the interviews in one week, and that way they could evaluate after, so no one was screwed due to the timing of when their interview slot was.

 

[LetItSnow]

So, even though I am very passionate about what I believe.. and can be overzealous I do want EVERYONE to know I take their comments seriously. I have been reviewing emails, and documents I have received regarding LMU... and I am pretty sure I have found the cause of the issue.
Something about the way LMU uses: "Offered admission", "Accepted" and "Matriculation" doesn't add up.

From what I have heard, all schools offer more admission than they have places for? And at other schools, once you "Accept" your offer that means you are 100% going to attend the school correct? When you "Accept", you are required to pay the Matriculation fee...I am pretty sure this is where the issue is.

According to what I have been told from fellow classmates and also LMU staff, at LMU-CVM, once you "Accept", it actually doesn't mean anything. In this system, sending in your Matriculation fee, is when you are inked into the class for sure. It seems as though most students didn't know you could "Accept" and not pay the fee till April 15th, and that once you "accepted" you were essentially in the same status as people that were just offered admission at other schools.

To me, it seems like this is the area of concern.

So LMU seems to not "actually" offer admission until you accept (not saying thats the right thing to do). Then your spot is held for you (which is akin to when other schools offer admission). Then when you pay the matriculation fee at LMU, this is when other schools you would accept your offer and pay the fee. From everything I have seen, this seems to be the main cause of concern for this topic.

Maybe that is the issue. I don't know.

But in the end it doesn't really matter, because the end result is that there is a competitive time urgency for students trying to get into LMU: they have a time-sensitive response. Whether it's intentional, or miscommunication, or using different terminology ... none of that matters because the functional outcome is that LMU is using a first-come, first-served admissions process, which is EXACTLY what AAVMC/VMCAS have worked to avoid. Such a system is not in the best interest of students, AND it's not in the best interest of vet schools.

 

[DVMDream]

There are people like that at every school, I imagine. We have them here, too. I think they are so afraid of conflict that they just do everything they can to pretend there is never anything wrong. Either that or their self-image is so tied up in the things/groups they are associated with (like, oh, a vet school) that any criticism of that vet school is seen as a personal attack.

I dunno. Those are the only reasons I can think of for such outrageously defensive responses to what is obviously a really sketchy deal going down at LMU this cycle.

I mean I have had students tell me that they don't agree with my view on what is going on at the school and how they can improve it (for where I am). But then I tell the staff at the staff/student liason committee meeting and they agree with me. They don't usually use my suggestion completely for how to improve upon it, but they agree that the issue needs to be addressed. I think people are afraid of school authority. We have professors here that actually do research on vet student learning and how to best adapt the curriculum to the way people learn. Most school want to hear your opinions (within reason, they aren't going to do anything outrageous that you suggest, like put a bar in the vet school, well not in the US they won't; there are plans for a bar to go into the vet school here. )