PhD to MD: pre-reqs while on research funding?

[SLLN]

I've been reading the forums a lot over the last month, and am ridiculously grateful for all that I've learned from Q and every other non-trad on here. Planning ahead, I'm trying to decide when/how to complete coursework. I'd appreciate any feedback or thoughts. (I promise to pay back and help others in the future!)

tl;dr:
Is it reasonable to try to complete the pre-med coursework in 1.5 years while being a graduate student or postdoc? My advisor probably expects around 60+hrs/wk. I would be taking chem and physics over 2 summers and biology and ochem during the academic year.

Me:
I'm currently in the 5th year of my PhD in statistics (machine learning and a little bit of bioinformatics) and plan to defend sometime in the next year. Ideally, I'd like to stay semi-active in research during my career. I've completed none of the pre-med coursework. My numbers are: ~3.8uGPA, ~3.8sGPA (almost all math) from a top LAC, ~1500SAT (for post bacc programs).

I'm currently considering either:
A. staying at my university for one more year to wrap up projects, switch to translational projects, and applying to formal programs at Goucher, BM, JHU, Scripps for the 2016-2017 year, or
B. staying at my university for one more year to complete the majority of my coursework as either a graduate student or postdoc, and taking the MCAT and applying to MD programs while doing a 2-year postdoc (or working) - maybe in a state I'd like to establish residency?

Pros:
A. could potential start in 2017 by linking, and the structured support for a non-trad sounds amazing
B. $50k-ish cheaper, but wouldn't matter if I started one year earlier by linking in Plan A

Cons:
A. very very possible that I won't get in to a top post bacc program (<20% acceptance rates = terrifying)
B. trying to take a lot of pre-med courses while on my advisor's funding might not be so cool with my advisor (or any advisor)

After writing this out, Plan A seems like a bad idea. I'm leaning towards Plan B, but I can't tell if this is going to come back and bite me since I have no idea how much time science classes require. Are there other obvious options that I'm missing?

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[ridethecliche]

If less than <20% acceptance rate is terrifying then you might not be able to survive the med school application process going solely by percents like that.

If you can finish your PhD and work in biostats or something for a year or two while publishing and taking coursework, then that would be a best case scenario.

Taking more than a class at a time while doing 60 hrs of work a week is going to be challenging, but is doable if you can play your cards right. I would not suggesting taking more than 1 class per semester if you're doing 60hrs a week. Even if you finish JUST the bio or intro chem pre-reqs you'll be ahead of the game.

The question is how much time are you willing to give? I honestly think the best way to do something is to find a job that's related in research, which there are plenty of, and take 1-2 classes a semester to finish your DIY post bacc while pulling a salary. It'll also help you since you might be able to shadow, get clinical experiences, and publish while you work.

 

[y123]

I took 2-3 courses per semester while being a full-time PhD student. It is definitely doable. I took mostly night and weekend courses, and I paid out of pocket.

 

[QofQuimica]

Yeah, I'd go with Plan B. That's what I did, except I didn't have to take any coursework in the end.

FWIW, I think stats is an awesome PhD field for a medical researcher.

 

[gyrfalcon]

I'm in a similar situation. I'm in a neuroscience PhD program at the moment and I'm working through the premed science classes. I was a computer science major in undergrad so I hadn't taken any of them. Fortunately my university doesn't charge PhD students to take courses (as long as they are at least vaguely related to the research field), and my advisor has been tolerant of the time required.

You asked how much time the classes take. It likely varies by person and university, but I can share my experiences. I'm been taking two lecture classes and a lab class each semester and that is my absolute limit. Some of the science classes (ochem) took me about 20-30 hours of studying per week, while others (physics) were much less: about 5 hours/week. Labs consumed considerably more time than I expected, often 10-15 hours a week. That was mainly due to the time required to write-up the weekly lab reports. During some semesters I was so time-limited while trying to combine multiple classes with research that my daily schedule consisted of nothing more than research, study, eating, hygiene, and about 5 hours of sleep daily. There is a real danger of burnout. I honestly can't imagine trying to finish all of the required classes in 1.5 years as you suggest, while continuing to do research.

I would suggest having a heart-to-heart with your advisor to tell her/him about your plans. I think most advisors these days realize that not every PhD student can (or wants to) become a professor and they are usually willing to assist you with whatever career goal you have. Many med schools will demand that your advisor provide one of the letters of recommendation anyway so you'll have to confess one of these days! The professor might be okay with you stretching the PhD a little longer to take classes on the side. Emphasize that you will use your free time to complete the coursework so that your research can continue. If you can, start with "easier" classes (chat up another premed student on your campus to find out which) to test the waters. What you really do NOT want is to try to cram all the classes in together and then end up with poor grades due to workload pressures.

Good luck!

 

[SLLN]

Thank you all for the responses!

The question is how much time are you willing to give? I honestly think the best way to do something is to find a job that's related in research, which there are plenty of, and take 1-2 classes a semester to finish your DIY post bacc while pulling a salary. It'll also help you since you might be able to shadow, get clinical experiences, and publish while you work.

I think that's an important question that I need to think about more over the next couple of months. Even with my current plan, I wouldn't starting medical school until (earliest) 3.5 years from now. I'd prefer not to push it back any further. If this means less time for research, maybe I need to figure out how to make this happen. As for finding a position closer to medicine, fortunately, one of my advisors is a physician scientist (weird for a statistics PhD, I know), so shifting into more translation research shouldn't be too difficult.

I took 2-3 courses per semester while being a full-time PhD student. It is definitely doable. I took mostly night and weekend courses, and I paid out of pocket.

That's awesome - I'm glad to hear that it worked out for someone else! I've never thought about paying out of pocket while still being a student, but it's definitely a lot cheaper than a formal postbacc. I'll keep this in mind. Thanks!

FWIW, I think stats is an awesome PhD field for a medical researcher.

Thanks! Working with statisticians and clinicians/geneticists, I can't count the number of times I've wished there was at least one person in the room with a stronger background in both. Sort of like this xkcd: http://xkcd.com/1425/ . Here's to hoping it's still awesome in 10 years!

You asked how much time the classes take. It likely varies by person and university, but I can share my experiences. I'm been taking two lecture classes and a lab class each semester and that is my absolute limit. Some of the science classes (ochem) took me about 20-30 hours of studying per week, while others (physics) were much less: about 5 hours/week. Labs consumed considerably more time than I expected, often 10-15 hours a week. That was mainly due to the time required to write-up the weekly lab reports. During some semesters I was so time-limited while trying to combine multiple classes with research that my daily schedule consisted of nothing more than research, study, eating, hygiene, and about 5 hours of sleep daily. There is a real danger of burnout. I honestly can't imagine trying to finish all of the required classes in 1.5 years as you suggest, while continuing to do research.

Thanks for the thorough breakdown! This sounds pretty intense. The last thing I want is to burn out BEFORE medical school...

I would suggest having a heart-to-heart with your advisor to tell her/him about your plans. I think most advisors these days realize that not every PhD student can (or wants to) become a professor and they are usually willing to assist you with whatever career goal you have. Many med schools will demand that your advisor provide one of the letters of recommendation anyway so you'll have to confess one of these days! The professor might be okay with you stretching the PhD a little longer to take classes on the side. Emphasize that you will use your free time to complete the coursework so that your research can continue. If you can, start with "easier" classes (chat up another premed student on your campus to find out which) to test the waters. What you really do NOT want is to try to cram all the classes in together and then end up with poor grades due to workload pressures.

I agree with this completely. I told my advisors (I have too many) late last year out of necessity - one spends some time in the university's hospital, and I wanted to avoid the awkwardness of running into him while shadowing/volunteering. I've been very fortunate that most of my advisors have been pretty supportive of my decision. That being said, I still haven't talked to them about taking courses next year. They definitely think I'm crazy (statistics is one of the few fields where getting a tenure track position isn't too difficult), but they also seem to respect my decision. Although not ideal, I think TA-ing for in my department might be an option to reduce the stress of research at least during the first semester. Getting poor grades is the last thing I want to do.

Good luck!

Thanks! Best of luck to you too!

 

[stemingen]

I have a similar background. The difference is that I had my PhD and have been working full time as a research scientist for two years. Because I didn't go to undergraduate school in USA, I had to retake most of the prereq. Basically I retook Physics I/II, Gen Chem I/II, Org Chem I/II, Statistics and Eng Comp I/II in the past year while working full time. All my classes were at night time besides Org Chem. It was a brutal year and I am glad that I made it. I also took the last MCAT last week. Now I am just anxiously waiting for the score...

My suggestion is to figure out the limit you can handle and try to work/study as much as you can. Be resilient and be prepared! Best of luck to you all!!!

 

[deleted648172]

Hey - how flexible is your research? I work as a lab analyst (essentially I'm a post-doc without a PhD), but its super flexible. I am taking my pre-med classes part-time at Towson. Goucher, JHU, etc are all full-time arent' they? Have you considered UMD SIE?

It will be hard to do all your prereqs in 1.5 years if you haven't done any of them yet AND work F/T as a post-doc. Plus the MCAT has some other things like biochem, and maybe some psych etc (you should check). I had planned for 2 years post-baccing and matriculating to med school at the 3rd.

You might want to just take the F/T post-bacc program after you finish your PhD? no point dragging out your training. Just focus for a year on post-baccing and scoring well on the MCAT. Every year you spend as a post-doc, you could've spent as an attending

my situation is different. I'm waiting on a greencard.