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StartingoverVet said:
I want to get in a crazy argument with you over this post for so many reasons, but I won't, cause it isn't really germane to your point in this forum.. but still. <tearing my hair out>
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my point was simply "Same" is a matter detail that may not be evident simply looking from a macro level. Meat at the grocery to some is all the same, to others only organic will do, to others somewhere in the middle is okay.
It was a legit question regarding manufacturing and branding of medications, but you can read into it and make up whatever you like. If anyone wants to address the actual question I'm interested to learn.
 
JJ1019 said:
my point was simply "Same" is a matter detail that may not be evident simply looking from a macro level. Meat at the grocery to some is all the same, to others only organic will do, to others somewhere in the middle is okay.
It was a legit question regarding manufacturing and branding of medications, but you can read into it and make up whatever you like. If anyone wants to address the actual question I'm interested to learn.
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typically, there isn't much difference in antibiotics for use for pets v. people. Sometimes, there is, but those suppliers don't last long (and this happens in human med, too - there was a batch of steroid for spinal injections that was contaminated and caused a meningitis).

Brands usually charge more because they have to recoup the cost of research. So if you really want to support medical research, you should buy the branded versions.
 
JJ1019 said:
Does the same occur for medicine? Do companies make the "same" drug but market it differently because the different market is too dumb to know or is willing to pay it, or are the standards to which the drug is held are different (higher in human, less in fish for example)?
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There is compounding, where you can't guarantee what's actually in the product. Then there are generics which often have the same active ingredient and strength/concentration as the "brand name" drug. The pharmaceutical industry is complex - you can search on brand name versus generics, but essentially brand name companies do all of the break-through work (research, clinical trials, etc) and when their patent on the med runs out, other companies can make the generics without all of the exact same protocols. So maybe in your opinion that would be "lesser grade" but I trust them to be what their label says.
 
JJ1019 said:
my point was simply "Same" is a matter detail that may not be evident simply looking from a macro level. Meat at the grocery to some is all the same, to others only organic will do, to others somewhere in the middle is okay.
It was a legit question regarding manufacturing and branding of medications, but you can read into it and make up whatever you like. If anyone wants to address the actual question I'm interested to learn.
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fair enough. As I said, my objection is not germane to this discussion.
 
StartingoverVet said:
fair enough. As I said, my objection is not germane to this discussion.
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Ok guys, one bolt doesn't hold a wing on...no one get freaked out. It was an example. Flight instructor over here is worried I'm hurting his business. 😛 That said, if you can afford to learn to fly do it, you won't regret it. First solo flight is something I'll never forget.

Second, I suppose you are right in that the way I phrased it might not be entirely correct. How critical a part is can determine the paper trail, the source and quality of the material, come with additional inspections and tests, etc. So a part that is produced may or may not meet those standards. Making it critical guarantees the parts you receive meet those standards. You may pay for generic and get brand name quality. You may pay for generic and get generic quality. But if you pay for brand name, you expect brand name quality.

I thought (could be mistaken) there have been instances where certain manufacturers of generic thyroid meds have claimed a certain amount of the active ingredient, but when tested there was significantly more variation per pill than the brand name. Costco fills pet scripts with human branded versions of meds...but you wouldn't take the vet branded equivalent of a drug and give it to a human.....right? or maybe that's what's wrong with me 😛
 
JJ1019 said:
I thought (could be mistaken) there have been instances where certain manufacturers of generic thyroid meds have claimed a certain amount of the active ingredient, but when tested there was significantly more variation per pill than the brand name. Costco fills pet scripts with human branded versions of meds...but you wouldn't take the vet branded equivalent of a drug and give it to a human.....right? or maybe that's what's wrong with me
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Yes to the first part - but those are typically compounded. Verified pharmacies have to meet certain standards and are checked from time to time. You only wouldn't take an animal branded drug because the ones that are animal branded tend to be flavored or not a drug we use in people. Most times, you would want to take a human branded one, particularly if you have insurance since costs will be cheaper.
 
that redhead said:
There is compounding, where you can't guarantee what's actually in the product. Then there are generics which often have the same active ingredient and strength/concentration as the "brand name" drug. The pharmaceutical industry is complex - you can search on brand name versus generics, but essentially brand name companies do all of the break-through work (research, clinical trials, etc) and when their patent on the med runs out, other companies can make the generics without all of the exact same protocols. So maybe in your opinion that would be "lesser grade" but I trust them to be what their label says.
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I thought generics could have the same concentration of the active ingredient as a branded drug, but the other 'filler' ingredients were what could vary, and that generics drugs are not always the identical formula as branded. Not true??

dyachei said:
Yes to the first part - but those are typically compounded. Verified pharmacies have to meet certain standards and are checked from time to time. You only wouldn't take an animal branded drug because the ones that are animal branded tend to be flavored or not a drug we use in people. Most times, you would want to take a human branded one, particularly if you have insurance since costs will be cheaper.
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Unless you own your own clinic and medicate your family....but I've never seen that 🙄
 
pinkpuppy9 said:
I thought generics could have the same concentration of the active ingredient as a branded drug, but the other 'filler' ingredients were what could vary, and that generics drugs are not always the identical formula as branded. Not true??


Unless you own your own clinic and medicate your family....but I've never seen that
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I do own my own clinic. Still cheaper to go through insurance for the majority of meds. Generics may have changes to the salts which are used to transport the active ingredient. So there may be some changes to how effective it is for certain patients.
 
dyachei said:
I do own my own clinic. Still cheaper to go through insurance for the majority of meds. Generics may have changes to the salts which are used to transport the active ingredient. So there may be some changes to how effective it is for certain patients.
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No, I know you do, I was being sarcastic lol.
 
pinkpuppy9 said:
True, but minus copays and whatnot? Saves time at least (not that I agree with it of course).
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my copay makes most of my medications $7 (which makes it very cheap, I understand). There are very few medications that I could get that would be that price. Plus, amoxi, cipro, and a few other meds are free at one of the local pharmacies
 
pinkpuppy9 said:
I thought generics could have the same concentration of the active ingredient as a branded drug, but the other 'filler' ingredients were what could vary, and that generics drugs are not always the identical formula as branded. Not true??
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I think I said that here:
that redhead said:
Then there are generics which often have the same active ingredient and strength/concentration as the "brand name" drug.
Click to expand...

The whole product is not not 100% identical in make-up, but the amounts of active ingredient are almost always the same. Just go to your local CVS or whatever and look at the name brand and the CVS brand for an example.
 
that redhead said:
I think I said that here:

The whole product is not not 100% identical in make-up, but the amounts of active ingredient are almost always the same. Just go to your local CVS or whatever and look at the name brand and the CVS brand for an example.
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Ah I see!


Side rant: My doctor finally said it's time for my shoulder surgery. He's narrowed it down to two possible problems (both surgical). He wants to inject me with a numbing agent when I'm home for spring break, wait another week or so to see if it worked or not, and proceed accordingly. I'll be out for 6-8 weeks no matter what. I feel like the longer the surgery gets pushed back, the less of a chance I'll have to actually participate in the summer opportunities I applied for (assuming I get one, of course). I want the pain to go away, but I also don't want to potentially sacrifice what would be a huge boost to my CV. I also really don't want to have to miss several days of school for a surgery, but I guess that's unavoidable.
 
pinkpuppy9 said:
Ah I see!


Side rant: My doctor finally said it's time for my shoulder surgery. He's narrowed it down to two possible problems (both surgical). He wants to inject me with a numbing agent when I'm home for spring break, wait another week or so to see if it worked or not, and proceed accordingly. I'll be out for 6-8 weeks no matter what. I feel like the longer the surgery gets pushed back, the less of a chance I'll have to actually participate in the summer opportunities I applied for (assuming I get one, of course). I want the pain to go away, but I also don't want to potentially sacrifice what would be a huge boost to my CV. I also really don't want to have to miss several days of school for a surgery, but I guess that's unavoidable.
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if you're having shoulder surgery, the likelihood is you won't really be able to participate in a lot. even though it's 4-6 weeks of "down time" the reality is that your shoulder will take much longer than that to be useful and less painful (per PT and orthos here)
 
dyachei said:
if you're having shoulder surgery, the likelihood is you won't really be able to participate in a lot. even though it's 4-6 weeks of "down time" the reality is that your shoulder will take much longer than that to be useful and less painful (per PT and orthos here)
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Yes, that as well. I assume that I'd be completely unable to do the Banfield thing. I also applied for the Merial Scholars research program. I'm not sure if a one-armed person could complete that successfully. Depends on your research, I suppose. Even if I don't get either, I'm sure my summer job search would be extremely limited, too. Just frustrating...he was sticking me all over my shoulder just to see if it'd work. I feel like he didn't take me seriously for the longest time, and now my CT report is showing some badness.
 
pinkpuppy9 said:
Yes, that as well. I assume that I'd be completely unable to do the Banfield thing. I also applied for the Merial Scholars research program. I'm not sure if a one-armed person could complete that successfully. Depends on your research, I suppose. Even if I don't get either, I'm sure my summer job search would be extremely limited, too. Just frustrating...he was sticking me all over my shoulder just to see if it'd work. I feel like he didn't take me seriously for the longest time, and now my CT report is showing some badness.
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I'm not sure how extensive your shoulder surgery will be but my husband had a labral tear surgically repaired. It was a few years ago now but recovery was slow. He was stuck in a shoulder surgery sling (pretty cumbersome), needed help bathing, couldn't drive, and had to sleep sitting up in a recliner. The ice water circulation ice pack thing was his saving grace. Our freezer couldn't keep up so I was having to frequent 7-11 for bags of ice. Prepare for worst case scenario in terms of recovery and have someone around to help you :nod: I think my husband was surprised by how long it took him to get back to 'normal'. Now he has almost normal range of motion and his only complaint is that his shoulder 'creaks' when it's cold
 
EngrSC said:
I'm not sure how extensive your shoulder surgery will be but my husband had a labral tear surgically repaired. It was a few years ago now but recovery was slow. He was stuck in a shoulder surgery sling (pretty cumbersome), needed help bathing, couldn't drive, and had to sleep sitting up in a recliner. The ice water circulation ice pack thing was his saving grace. Our freezer couldn't keep up so I was having to frequent 7-11 for bags of ice. Prepare for worst case scenario in terms of recovery and have someone around to help you :nod: I think my husband was surprised by how long it took him to get back to 'normal'. Now he has almost normal range of motion and his only complaint is that his shoulder 'creaks' when it's cold
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Thanks for the info. I'm pretty worried about all of it, honestly. If I want to have any hope of being somewhat useful this summer, I'll have to do it now. However, that means driving 6 hours back to school, taking care of my pets, and doing daily school stuff one-armed. I'm not totally sure what the surgical plan was since theres two options: acromial process overgrowth or cuff tendonitis. I'd really hate to push the surgery to summer only to find out that I was accepted to the research program. Was he in quite a bite of pain after his surgery?
 
NStarz said:
Rant for the day: 2/15 is taking way too long to get here. I'm having all the anxieties.
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AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

yup.
 
finnickthedog said:
Well he's not the only one. I was pretty happy you died too. 😉
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I wasn't lying when I said I was sad you'd died. I still think of you as my sibling from the noob game. But I had to play the game. (PS it is kinda super fun being a wolf)
Trilt said:
I literally took two steps inside the door this evening:
"OK Trilt, who died today?"
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I'm sure your response was "my favorite player, she was just so awesome and entertaining 😢"

😀
 
My friends and family when I try to explain WW to them:

rs_250x188-140110112925-tumblr_m5qcuk4pcm1r3zat8.gif
 
My bf when I told him that I had agreed to co-mod another game right after HDM:
"Why do you hate yourself?"

Also he distracted me while we were hiking and my feet were hurting really bad by asking me how the Incredibles game was going 😀 I didn't realize that was what he was doing until suddenly we were at the end of the trail. Probably took me a good 15 minutes to explain what was going on in that game at the time...
 
kcoughli said:
I wasn't lying when I said I was sad you'd died. I still think of you as my sibling from the noob game. But I had to play the game. (PS it is kinda super fun being a wolf)
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Awww... so sweet.

You shouldn't have been sad though.
I may have been your brother in child's play but I killed you in HDM.
(And it is so fun to wolf)
 
As a member of big Pharma for the last decade.....
What pink puppy says about the generics vs innovator is true. The active is the same, the excipients (inactives) may differ.
I'm not certain about adding different salts to the active. I'll have to ask around about that. Seems to me that would be changing too much. Anything that would possibly change the efficacy of the drug would need an entirely new set of testing. I don't see generics wanting to put that much time/money in it.

A little insider info I can say..the innovator has less impurities..almost always.

I worked for a generic manufacturer that produced animal & human drugs. They are the same in quality, held to the same standards, get approved by the FDA the same way for production. The dosage differs, that's all. Its impractical for a human to take a min pin dose of robaxin. That's probably the only reason you wouldn't take it.

So when a new drug hits the market the creator of that drug (innovator) gets exclusivity for so many years (I want to say 4) then a few years down the road the FDA picks a generic company where they can make the drug too. And they throw a big party cause they are the only generic for a couple years.
They have to submit an ANDA and have all their stability testing and ducks in a row before that ever happens. It takes years.
As time goes on the FDA releases more generic manufacturers rights to produce said drug. The companies approved have to make the drug for so many years and make enough of it or the FDA comes in and spanks them for creating a back order.

Overall, if you were ever part of the process you'll know how painfully redundant it all is, and truly fear any kind of "compounding" or supplementation (including vitamins) outside the realm of the Regulatory bodies because you really have no idea what's in there, how consistently its there, or how long it'll last. I really mean that and it's not just because I've been brainwashed by industry.
Hope that helps 🙂
 
WildZoo said:
My bf when I told him that I had agreed to co-mod another game right after HDM:
"Why do you hate yourself?"

Also he distracted me while we were hiking and my feet were hurting really bad by asking me how the Incredibles game was going 😀 I didn't realize that was what he was doing until suddenly we were at the end of the trail. Probably took me a good 15 minutes to explain what was going on in that game at the time...
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"well this crazy baby mod who sort of barely knows what she's doing is running the thing right now... hopefully it hasn't gone down in flames yet"

😛
 
Trilt said:
"well this crazy baby mod who sort of barely knows what she's doing is running the thing right now... hopefully it hasn't gone down in flames yet"

😛
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:laugh:

More like "Well I've sort of abandoned the game but I'm sure everything is fine!" and then explaining the factions and the stupidly complex spreadsheet...
 
WildZoo said:
:laugh:

More like "Well I've sort of abandoned the game but I'm sure everything is fine!" and then explaining the factions and the stupidly complex spreadsheet...
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After I made my r&m spreadsheet based on my only experience (that game), I took the time to look back at some older games that had posted theirs... mine may be a bit overkill.

I just don't know what's normal! :laugh:
 
But seriously. Can we go back to how I am having major match-anxiety? 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱
 
So I shared a post on facebook from a vet I admire, just saying the usual vets aren't in it for money. How the public doesn't know half of what we go through, that sort of thing, and how we'd have to pay for the costs of the surgery out of our own pockets and time. Pretty straight-forward and non-assuming, very polite even. Get this pretty caustic post from a woman I barely know, a Lady from a church I used to visit sometimes. Posting about how she can't afford veterinary bills at all, she's on social security, vets are in it for money, how am I supposed to afford my old friends? Well alright Lady, but lets not forget that purebreed puppy you just bought 4 months ago, yeah? Ah okay so you get a puppy even though you can't afford it, so your vet is now supposed to..do everything for free?
Anyhow I wanted to post a snotty response but I knew that wouldn't go anywhere, just unadded her and deleted her facebook post. Still though, sometimes people knock me out with their entitled beliefs.
 
Pugsforlove2014 said:
So I shared a post on facebook from a vet I admire, just saying the usual vets aren't in it for money. How the public doesn't know half of what we go through, that sort of thing, and how we'd have to pay for the costs of the surgery out of our own pockets and time. Pretty straight-forward and non-assuming, very polite even. Get this pretty caustic post from a woman I barely know, a Lady from a church I used to visit sometimes. Posting about how she can't afford veterinary bills at all, she's on social security, vets are in it for money, how am I supposed to afford my old friends? Well alright Lady, but lets not forget that purebreed puppy you just bought 4 months ago, yeah? Ah okay so you get a puppy even though you can't afford it, so your vet is now supposed to..do everything for free?
Anyhow I wanted to post a snotty response but I knew that wouldn't go anywhere, just unadded her and deleted her facebook post. Still though, sometimes people knock me out with their entitled beliefs.
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I saw that for a brief second! I was like "....no, PP9, just keep your mouth shut!"
 
NStarz said:
But seriously. Can we go back to how I am having major match-anxiety? 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱
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Eh don't worry too much, if you want an internship you will get one whether you match or not. There are plenty of open spots including at good programs.
 
JJ1019 said:
"same" to what degree? Suppliers and buyers do this with airlines parts too for example. You have a part that's flight critical...if it breaks/fails it would result in loss of life/aircraft. Simply put, let's say you have 1 giant bolt holding on the wing. Well the company that makes that bolt may also sell that bolt to other buyers who don't use it in a critical location. They might not care as much if it fails. So once said bolt is deemed super important by company 1, the supplier has to make it to a certain special set of crazy high standards (which makes it more expensive), but they also want to still produce the billy joe priced bolt too. Would be hard to tell the difference between the two, but you better be darn sure I want the fancy expensive bolt on my airplane.

Does the same occur for medicine? Do companies make the "same" drug but market it differently because the different market is too dumb to know or is willing to pay it, or are the standards to which the drug is held are different (higher in human, less in fish for example)?
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It's literally the same drug, processed on the same line, placed in a different bottle. I know this is 100% true for a certain brand of fishzole and metronidazole as per the drug rep and I'm sure it's true for others as well.
 
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