Southern California Kaiser Anesthesiology

[Peterluger]

but how many dollar kaiser pay for first year of attending

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[nimbus]

NorCal Kaiser recruited one of our pedi heart guys for a new program. He was a longtime partner and his wife (also anesthesia) said he went up there just for kicks with no intention of moving but they offered him a deal he couldn’t refuse. We’ve also lost a couple of new hires to SCPMG within the past 5 yrs. I never got a chance to meet one of them but the other one was clinically exceptional and very well liked. I have no idea what the actual numbers are, but based on their decisions, they must be above average.

 

[kaioukenx]

I don’t live in CA, and I’ve only ever heard how everyone should leave unless you can’t. Based on the info here KP is offering an exceedingly sweet deal between partner pay and pension.

Fairly funny given how often KP gets crushed here. Seems to me it’s a hidden gem considering all the dumpster fire recruiting emails I get for CA jobs.

Some people are just dead set against supervising or working in a large organization. I can respect that. Other people just seem to have an agenda against it for whatever reason, as you can see in this thread. No job is perfect, but the imperfections of Kaiser jobs do seem to be exaggerated and criticized more frequently on this board.

 

[deleted162650]

Partnership track is 3 years

Not what I asked.

Is comp/vaca the same in year 4 as it is in year 10?

 

[GassmanMD]

Not what I asked.

Is comp/vaca the same in year 4 as it is in year 10?

My bad. I was in year four in 2020 so it was my first full year as a partner. The numbers I gave were for year 4.

year ten has 5 more vacation days and 10% higher base pay

edit: year ten vaca is the 11 weeks. I’m at 10 weeks now. Wanted to make that clear because in a prior post I mentioned 11 weeks vacation but that refers to the max at year ten

 

[bellevueperson]

Which kaiser u work for? How many call u take per month?

One of the SoCal Kaisers. We take an average of 3-4 overnight (12-hour) calls with an occasional 24-hour on the weekend. It may be more or less call depending on the month, but we do get rest most of the time, except maybe on OB.

 

[bellevueperson]

You guys hiring? I thought socal was just allied anesthesia et al so I didn't even look

Not currently hiring but I believe other Kaisers in the area are.

 

[blackbolt]

$500k was my 2020 YTD, I don’t include any benefits. That’s cash in my pocket. If it wasn’t for COVID, I was on pace to make a grip more as I did in 2019.

28 days max is for associates. Partners max out at 33. Plus 15 Ed leave. Most places only get 5 Ed leave days so again, KP isn’t a monolith. 22 days sick leave. 6 days holiday pay.

Wow sounds like a great gig. Too bad the Socal website only lists per diem jobs with no mention of how long you would be per diem before even being considered for associate. I applied to multiple SCPMG positions as a new grad and only got one response for a per diem job. Seems difficult to get into SCPMG without a connection or if you're from outta state.

 

[GaseousClay]

my buddy is stalkin

Wow sounds like a great gig. Too bad the Socal website only lists per diem jobs with no mention of how long you would be per diem before even being considered for associate. I applied to multiple SCPMG positions as a new grad and only got one response for a per diem job. Seems difficult to get into SCPMG without a connection or if you're from outta state.

Definitely need connections or at least an amazing CV. Once you’re a partner is basically tenure so they are really selective on who they take because after 3 years it’s near impossible to get fired. Am I right gassman?

 

[Tony C anesthesia]

you are conflating a base rate with total compensation package divided by hours worked. Anyone who cares about the former is misguided. It’s like running a PCEA at 10cc/hr but they hit their button 6 times an hour. What is the total hourly rate of administration? Is it 10

you are conflating a base rate with total compensation package divided by hours worked. Anyone who cares about the former is misguided. It’s like running a PCEA at 10cc/hr but they hit their button 6 times an hour. What is the total hourly rate of administration? Is it 10?

This is not so hard to confirm what you are saying here. The recruiter's email is on the website. Just email him and ask for yourself. If KP were such a good gig it wouldn't be desperate to hire. This can be verified by their advertisement for many years.

 

[Tony C anesthesia]

I work with GassmanMD and can vouch for all his numbers. To clarify, we get paid vacation, so it's not $257/hour but does come close to that when you're at the overnight 1.5x rate depending on how long you've been a partner.

This is not so hard to confirm what you are saying here. The recruiter's email is on the website. Just email him and ask for yourself. If KP were such a good gig it wouldn't be desperate to hire. This can be verified by their advertisement for many years.

 

[GaseousClay]

This is not so hard to confirm what you are saying here. The recruiter's email is on the website. Just email him and ask for yourself. If KP were such a good gig it wouldn't be desperate to hire. This can be verified by their advertisement for many years.

In their defense they are constantly trying to hire per diems so full timers can actually take all that vacation

 

[GassmanMD]

my buddy is stalkin


Definitely need connections or at least an amazing CV. Once you’re a partner is basically tenure so they are really selective on who they take because after 3 years it’s near impossible to get fired. Am I right gassman?

It is impossible to get fired as a partner.

And its really hard to land a partnership track. It is usually only new grads from top programs getting interviewed.

Per diem, we hire anyone with a pulse.

 

[GassmanMD]

This is not so hard to confirm what you are saying here. The recruiter's email is on the website. Just email him and ask for yourself. If KP were such a good gig it wouldn't be desperate to hire. This can be verified by their advertisement for many years.

It's true that we are desperate to hire per diems, but what group isn't actively hunting for cheap/short term labor? Don't confuse per diem recruitment with associate recruitment. We once had over 300 applications for a few partnership track positions throughout SCPMG back in 2017. Our chief printed out the list for us.

 

[Ezekiel2517]

An organization like Kaiser will always offer a compensation package that is at least competitive for the area. They’re not dumb, they know all the MGMA data and such and want to recruit high quality docs. I know this is a SoCal Kaiser thread but I can post some NorCal figures. I almost took a job with them a few years back. Starting total cash compensation (salary+bonuses) was 347k, if fellowship trained. Non fellowship trained was like 325k. This is based on a 40 hr work week. Projected total cash compensation in year 5 was 433k (fellowship trained). They will give you value amounts for how much their benefits are worth. They have good benefits but I personally thought the value figures were a bit inflated. I know folks who left PP for Kaiser and like it and I know some who don’t. There’s more to happiness with your job than the money and benefits.

 

[ucladoc2b]

I got a flyer from t

An organization like Kaiser will always offer a compensation package that is at least competitive for the area. They’re not dumb, they know all the MGMA data and such and want to recruit high quality docs. I know this is a SoCal Kaiser thread but I can post some NorCal figures. I almost took a job with them a few years back. Starting total cash compensation (salary+bonuses) was 347k, if fellowship trained. Non fellowship trained was like 325k. This is based on a 40 hr work week. Projected total cash compensation in year 5 was 433k (fellowship trained). They will give you value amounts for how much their benefits are worth. They have good benefits but I personally thought the value figures were a bit inflated. I know folks who left PP for Kaiser and like it and I know some who don’t. There’s more to happiness with your job than the money and benefits.

I got a flyer from them that the starting cash comp for them (NorCal Kaiser) was $360K for generalists. They value the benefits package in the $150K (which are almost always overvalued). I’ve been getting pretty regular emails from them. Not hearing much from SoCal.

 

[Peterluger]

I got a flyer from t

I got a flyer from them that the starting cash comp for them (NorCal Kaiser) was $360K for generalists. They value the benefits package in the $150K (which are almost always overvalued). I’ve been getting pretty regular emails from them. Not hearing much from SoCal.

Doesnt socal kaiser pay like 250k starting and thats why everybody tries to run away from california after doing residency in LA?

 

[GassYous]

Doesnt socal kaiser pay like 250k starting and thats why everybody tries to run away from california after doing residency in LA?

Feel like you didn't read the thread at all

 

[Peterluger]

Feel like you didn't read the thread at all

Yeah? Show me where in this thread it says how much starting pay is for socal kaiser. If you can’t, then don’t respond.

 

[GassmanMD]

I got a flyer from t

I got a flyer from them that the starting cash comp for them (NorCal Kaiser) was $360K for generalists. They value the benefits package in the $150K (which are almost always overvalued). I’ve been getting pretty regular emails from them. Not hearing much from SoCal.

$150k is probably more accurate than you think.

-Dental/vision
-Health benefit: $0 deductible, $0 copay. Impossible to really value this since it’s not available to the public. Best comparison is the Platinum Kaiser plan and for single male my age it is over $1k per month last I checked years ago. Imagine a partner with a wife and 3 kids. Plus you can add special dependents (parents, spouses parents) who get the same $0 deductible plan for $600-700/mo. So ymmv here.
-Disability: both short term and long term covered. not the best plan though, nor the worst. Half salary paid out, but it’s not specialty specific. Good enough for me. Two partners have qualified for disability while I’ve been here so it does pay out.
-Malpractice
- paid time off - easy to quantify; worth $64,000 by year 4
- pension (you could buy a matching annuity today for about a million $) so ~$33k per year for 30 years is a conservative estimate
-Bonuses, stipends and profit sharing - variable. $0-30k per year.

I would say $125k on the low end is a fair cash value equivalent for the benefit package available to me as a young healthy single male. I don’t know how much health insurance and health care costs for families with kids. Plus imagine a partner with health problems who needs treatment and surgery. All covered at $0 deductible. Just $5 for prescription drugs is all we pay.

 

[secretasianman]

It is impossible to get fired as a partner.

And its really hard to land a partnership track. It is usually only new grads from top programs getting interviewed.

Per diem, we hire anyone with a pulse.

Maybe just at your Kaiser? I have a few ex coresidents who I don’t consider best of the best or god’s gift to anesthesia who are now at socal Kaisers. Nothing against them, just saying maybe each Kaiser group is a bit different..

Regardless, the doom and gloom in the above posts is so completely off. And there’s no need to defend socal Kaiser either, I’m sure they have no trouble hiring good people.

I wish we had 1.5x pay for call up here

 

[throwawaythesevo]

Kaiser seemed to offer the best lifestyle and time/comp ratio in so cal. The fact that it is so hard to land a partner gig is what makes it tough. The SD group seems to default to asking all applicants to per-diem as an audition. I know of at least 3 chief residents with great fellowships from the so cal programs who didn't get hired and asked to per diem in the past couple years. Gassman seems to have a sweet gig but don't think it applies to all so cal KPs. Those were not the numbers that the partners and HR presented to me atleast.

 

[soccerboy2288]

but how many dollar kaiser pay for first year of attending

Currently an associate for SoCal Kaiser. Can confirm above numbers

After my first year as an associate, I made around $420K. We get 33 days of paid vacation as an associate (except 1st yr: 28 days). 2nd year I made 450k. I did pick up extra hours here and there to raise my salary (but not alot and not consistently). Probably worked avg of low 50hrs/wk (this includes time spent sleeping overnight and time just baby sitting the hospital on weekends with a lot of downtime).

(EDIT 12/2022 now that I'm partner: even the youngest partners will clear $500k with 7.5-8.5wks vacation). One of the older partner literally told me he can "easily" clear 600k working assigned/baseline hours stated above, and he has like 10 weeks vacation I think. He's been with kaiser for I think a little less than 20 years.

And yes this is not including other benefits like free health care, paid sick days, and the pension we vest after 10yrs (not 3 as mentioned earlier).

 

[deleted162650]

Currently an associate for SoCal Kaiser. Can confirm above numbers (i.e. partners making around $500k with 11wks vacation after 10yrs). We take in house call and work nights unlike some PP gigs though. It's not cush, but given the stability and nature of our work (good mix of solo, supervising, pacu/blocks) I can't think of many gig that are better (at least in LA where good jobs are scarce).

After my first year as an associate, I made around $420K. We get 33 days of paid vacation as an associate (except 1st yr: 28 days). I did pick up extra hours here and there to raise my salary. Probably worked avg of low 50hrs/wk. Looking forward to a bump in salary and vacation after partnership.

And yes this is not including other benefits like free health care, paid sick days, and the pension we vest after 10yrs (not 3 as mentioned earlier).

Pretty competitive with the good PPs in SoCal.

 

[UnoMas]

Currently an associate for SoCal Kaiser. Can confirm above numbers (i.e. partners making around $500k with 11wks vacation after 10yrs). We take in house call and work nights unlike some PP gigs though. It's not cush, but given the stability and nature of our work, it is definitely one of the best gigs, at least in Los Angeles

After my first year as an associate, I made around $420K. We get 33 days of paid vacation as an associate (except 1st yr: 28 days). I did pick up extra hours here and there to raise my salary. Probably worked avg of low 50hrs/wk. Looking forward to a bump in salary and vacation after partnership.

And yes this is not including other benefits like free health care, paid sick days, and the pension we vest after 10yrs (not 3 as mentioned earlier).

What did you do to land this Kaiser gig? asking for a friend, who is a CA1 . Most likely no fellowship

 

[Peterluger]

Currently an associate for SoCal Kaiser. Can confirm above numbers (i.e. partners making around $500k with 11wks vacation after 10yrs). We take in house call and work nights unlike some PP gigs though. It's not cush, but given the stability and nature of our work, it is definitely one of the best gigs, at least in Los Angeles

After my first year as an associate, I made around $420K. We get 33 days of paid vacation as an associate (except 1st yr: 28 days). I did pick up extra hours here and there to raise my salary. Probably worked avg of low 50hrs/wk. Looking forward to a bump in salary and vacation after partnership.

And yes this is not including other benefits like free health care, paid sick days, and the pension we vest after 10yrs (not 3 as mentioned earlier).

How many years does it take to become an associate and how many to become a partner? I wasn’t sure what the terminology is (like for example, if you join full time, are you an associate to begin with, and then after a couple years you become a “made man” like in the mafia 😂)? Thanks

 

[GaseousClay]

How many years does it take to become an associate and how many to become a partner? I wasn’t sure what the terminology is (like for example, if you join full time, are you an associate to begin with, and then after a couple years you become a “made man” like in the mafia 😂)? Thanks

Associate for 3 years then voted on to be a partner by entire partnership of physicians. (Most docs who don’t know you just say defer to the chief of department)

 

[GaseousClay]

Kaiser is being dumb by making graduates from stellar programs become per diems first. Why would you choose a part time job with no benefits over any other job especially if you’re a very competitive candidate? This is what SD is doing at least.

 

[otis86]

I interviewed with a SoCal Kaiser recently. offering $150/hr per diem. Ideally I'd like to be full time, but not sure how long that will take plus no openings currently.

 

[Tony C anesthesia]

I interviewed with a SoCal Kaiser recently. offering $150/hr per diem. Ideally I'd like to be full time, but not sure how long that will take plus no openings currently.

There is more than one reason they can't hire enough people to staff their sites. Plus, no guarantee they will make you partner. Would you want to wait this long specially if you have a family and want to settle down, buy a home, etc?

 

[soccerboy2288]

What did you do to land this Kaiser gig? asking for a friend, who is a CA1 . Most likely no fellowship

Each Kaiser has their own way to hiring. For my department, I would say there were several alumni from my local program so they had easy access to my PD and attendings to ask about me. I think its a combination of resume, reference, and interview. I have to admit I sometimes questions how I landed this gig though.

I do not have a fellowship. A fellowship, especially in peds/cardiac/pain/critical care may or may not hurt you if the opening spot is only for general since you will only do bread and butter.

 

[soccerboy2288]

How many years does it take to become an associate and how many to become a partner? I wasn’t sure what the terminology is (like for example, if you join full time, are you an associate to begin with, and then after a couple years you become a “made man” like in the mafia 😂)? Thanks

Strangely, different Kaisers hire differently. Some (minority) of locations hire directly as an associate (i.e. straight partnership path from day one). Once an associate, 3 yrs until partnership. Most locations first hire you as per diem to see if they like you. Then when there is an opening, they hire you as an associate. In the latter route, the term "per diem" is used but my understanding is that if you want the hours, you can get enough hours (+40hrs/wk) depending on the site. How long you stay per diem depends on whether the department has an opening and whether they like you or not.

 

[soccerboy2288]

There is more than one reason they can't hire enough people to staff their sites. Plus, no guarantee they will make you partner. Would you want to wait this long specially if you have a family and want to settle down, buy a home, etc?

Yes, having to start off as per diem is definitely not ideal. However, in a place like Los Angeles, you really don't have much better options if you are tied to a desirable location. If you move farther out, you have more options. I have heard of people getting an associate spot anywhere from months to years. Just really depends.

 

[soccerboy2288]

Kaiser is being dumb by making graduates from stellar programs become per diems first. Why would you choose a part time job with no benefits over any other job especially if you’re a very competitive candidate? This is what SD is doing at least.

Some Kaisers hire directly as associates and some as per diem. As mentioned above, in So Cal, especially in LA, there aren't many other alternatives that are better. My colleagues have had to go out to new port beach (hoag), OC, ventura, santa Barbara to find good gigs. Nice areas but if you want to live in LA its far out.

 

[deleted162650]

My colleagues have had to go out to new port beach (hoag), OC, ventura, santa Barbara to find good gigs.

I would say an added bonus of those gigs is that you don’t have to live in LA.

 

[Peterluger]

Wait so people work per diem in hopes of becoming

Some Kaisers hire directly as associates and some as per diem. As mentioned above, in So Cal, especially in LA, there aren't many other alternatives that are better. My colleagues have had to go out to new port beach (hoag), OC, ventura, santa Barbara to find good gigs. Nice areas but if you want to live in LA its far out.

wait a min....going out to OC bc LA is tough? I thought people on here said the Hoag group is by far the hardest one in CA to get into....

 

[chocomorsel]

I interviewed with a SoCal Kaiser recently. offering $150/hr per diem. Ideally I'd like to be full time, but not sure how long that will take plus no openings currently.

Damn. Was offered that in Houston and thought it was crap. Can’t imagine being OK with that in SD or LA. That’s what the ICU nurses are making out there.

 

[Peterluger]

Damn. Was offered that in Houston and thought it was crap. Can’t imagine being OK with that in SD or LA. That’s what the ICU nurses are making out there.

In NYC the rate for CRNAs is $150/hr. Plus benefits. HAHA. But then again NYC is so much more expensive, and they dont have in n out

 

[chocomorsel]

In NYC the rate for CRNAs is $150/hr. Plus benefits. HAHA. But then again NYC is so much more expensive, and they dont have in n out

I don’t get the hype for in and out. However NYC is way more expensive than LA? WTF.

 

[GassYous]

In NYC the rate for CRNAs is $150/hr. Plus benefits. HAHA. But then again NYC is so much more expensive, and they dont have in n out

In n out sucks

 

[deleted162650]

In n out sucks

Hey now. I get that it may not live up to the hype (especially for those that didn’t grow up eating there), but it’s still a damn good fast food burger. Not to mention the price to goodness ratio is unbeatable.

 

[anbuitachi]

The nurses 100% run the ORs at KP. There are nurse managers on top of nurse managers at each hospital that control how many rooms can go and until what time etc. The Anesthesiologist is there to facilitate their mandates. The amount of nurse administration there is unparalleled.

don get it. how is this good for efficiency. isnt kaiser supposed to be one of the more efficient ones

I don’t get the hype for in and out. However NYC is way more expensive than LA? WTF.

NYC is WAY more expensive than LA.

 

[Peterluger]

I don’t get the hype for in and out. However NYC is way more expensive than LA? WTF.

Yup, most expensive city in the US by far

 

[anbuitachi]

wait so to summarize this long thread... in socal first year base like 340... with potential to make more... and jump to 500 after making partner in year 4..?
Pension vests in 10 years, and you get like 33k per year for ever?
Any other retirement benefits like 403 match or whatever?

 

[ItBurnsInMyHand]

I interviewed with a SoCal Kaiser recently. offering $150/hr per diem. Ideally I'd like to be full time, but not sure how long that will take plus no openings currently.

Samesies. Thinking I need to marry someone to at least have health insurance.

 

[deleted162650]

Yup, most expensive city in the US by far

Agreed. Followed by SF.

 

[chocomorsel]

don get it. how is this good for efficiency. isnt kaiser supposed to be one of the more efficient ones




NYC is WAY more expensive than LA.

Makes no damn sense. Weather is so much nicer in LA. And so are the people.

 

[chocomorsel]

wait so to summarize this long thread... in socal first year base like 340... with potential to make more... and jump to 500 after making partner in year 4..?
Pension vests in 10 years, and you get like 33k per year for ever?
Any other retirement benefits like 403 match or whatever?

He or she said 500 in year 10. Not 4. I like the pension though.

 

[chocomorsel]

Samesies. Thinking I need to marry someone to at least have health insurance.

Buy your own crappy Obama care like the rest of us.

 

[ucladoc2b]

Hey now. I get that it may not live up to the hype (especially for those that didn’t grow up eating there), but it’s still a damn good fast food burger. Not to mention the price to goodness ratio is unbeatable.

Double double animal style +/- chilis definitely lives up to the hype. Even Gordon Ramsey likes it.