The **NEW & IMPROVED** official low gpa thread...

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
hey graduating in May
Currently have a 2.8 gpa and 23 MCAT

is there a realistic strategy for someone with my stats to end up in a american medical school within a year by doing post bacc and or graduate work?

Members don't see this ad.
 
hey graduating in May
Currently have a 2.8 gpa and 23 MCAT

is there a realistic strategy for someone with my stats to end up in a american medical school within a year by doing post bacc and or graduate work?

Spend ten hours reading this forum then come back with specific questions.
 
hey graduating in May
Currently have a 2.8 gpa and 23 MCAT

is there a realistic strategy for someone with my stats to end up in a american medical school within a year by doing post bacc and or graduate work?

Retake any and all F/D/C coursework until 3.2+, retake MCAT and score >27, apply DO, cross fingers.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Hello! I went through all 155 pages and this thread has given me so much hope. I graduated from a UC in 2010 (California resident - from what I've read, not a good thing) with a degree in Psychology. Realized that I despised it my junior year but figured I was too in the hole to change majors and just stuck with it. Major regret, but what can you do.

AMCAS cGPA: 2.94 (134.4 hours - First 2 years was semester, second 2 was quarter so I had to change it all to semester)
AMCAS sGPA: 2.73 (2 science classes: Intro to Bio w/ a B and The Ideas and Evens of Physics w/a B, one Stats class w/a C)
EC's: working on those
MCAT: after Post Bacc courses. Will take some sort of MCAT prep course as well.

So basically I have none of the pre med courses done. These are my first steps:

1. Taking 2 classes at my local CC - a math course, and a basic intro to anatomy course. (I took up to PreCalc in high school but dropped it, so I need to start that over. Took an anatomy course in high school and fell in love with it). During those courses I will apply to some Post Bacc programs. Definitely moving out of state, completely fine with that. Definitely Harvard's program, as well as Columbia's, Northeastern's (have to research that one more) as well as a few others. I have a list.
2. If i do well in the math course, I'll take PreCalc again. Then take Calc at whichever Post Bacc program I'm hopefully accepted to.
3. Get involved with my local hospitals. I've had a full time job for the past 3 years, but will work around that schedule.

If I don't get in, then I'll still take the courses, I'll probably stay in California though, at least for a bit.

I hate that it does give me an advantage, but I can't help it. I am a URM. Black and Native American.

I know I'm not asking a question, I'm more just stating my plan and what I hope to accomplish. Caribbean is out, aiming for MD or DO. If all goes well, I hope to matriculate when I'm 28/29 (I'm 25 now, almost 26). If you have an opinion or something to add to my proposed short term plan, I'd love to hear it. :)
 
If you have an opinion or something to add to my proposed short term plan, I'd love to hear it. :)

Read the AACOMAS (DO) grade replacement policy fine print repeatedly, make a spreadsheet of your grades under both AMCAS and AACOMAS with several tabs (possible scenarios, quarters/semesters) and see where you will end up. Pick a school that you're considering and look at the pre-reqs for each course and plan out how long it will take you (does taking a class over a summer save you a year)?
 
Read the AACOMAS (DO) grade replacement policy fine print repeatedly, make a spreadsheet of your grades under both AMCAS and AACOMAS with several tabs (possible scenarios, quarters/semesters) and see where you will end up. Pick a school that you're considering and look at the pre-reqs for each course and plan out how long it will take you (does taking a class over a summer save you a year)?

Thank you! I did that with my current grades, and the totals now come out to:

AACOMAS cGPA: 3.04
AACOMAS sGPA: 2.74

I only retook 3 psych courses, so that made a difference in my cGPA, but not my sGPA. I've always been better at science though, so I'm confident in my abilities to bring that up. I'll play around with numbers in a bit.

I think your plan is solid - great job thinking it through and coming up with a solid plan

Thank you! Nice to hear coming from you, you seem to be one of the "it" people on this thread. :)
 
AACOMAS doesn't count math as a science either. Anyway the point I was trying to make was just that if you wind up retaking any courses you have to take them at a school where you get equal or greater credit values. This is potentially of little to no concern to you (although retaking a low grade may boost your cgpa for DO), but for instance if you have a choice between getting DO retake credit for a class and not getting it depending on where/how it's offered you should opt to kill two birds with one stone.
 
Props to freshbagels, the dedication is inspiring, and for someone who has a still-decent GPA, (however a downward trend from last year) gives motivation to get to where we want to be in life. I also plan on doing an SMP since I have a gap year and to be more competitive for MD. I plan to apply to 8 SMP programs and hopefully get into one for Fall 2014. Do you recommend applying summer of 2014 before one starts the SMP or after, right before you complete the 2nd year? (depending on the SMP program of course)
 
Accepted. US MD. Still waiting on the results from other interviews.

Don't give up kids.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
Accepted. US MD. Still waiting on the results from other interviews.

Don't give up kids.

congratulations! i've seen your posts on other threads and am happy that you've made it. hopefully that will be me come 2017 :)
 
I am a South Carolina resident and am planning on staying in state for applications since i've talked to the admissions offices at two of the allopathic medical schools here and both said I would have a shot at securing at the very least an interview because of my recent grade revival. As of right now I am looking at taking the MCAT in march which would put me on the end of application season of many SMP programs. I do have a GRE score on the books of 1290 but I know that few schools will accept that without a MCAT grade to go along with it. Does anyone have any recommendations as to what programs would be the best to apply to if I most likely wont get my MCAT scores back until the end of April? As of right now I am planning on applying to South Carolina's Biomedical Certificate program and the program at MUSC, as well as Rosy Franlkin. Any other suggestions?
I was with you until RFU. I don't understand why you'd be looking at a program in North Chicago when EVMS and USF are regionally relevant. There's no point whatever in going up to RFU vs. closer SMPs unless you want to max out your chances to go to med school in Illinois and spend around $150k more to do it.

Regardless, staying in SC makes perfect sense for you, and if you need to do a one year terminal masters, just stay in SC. You're going to get the most love and the least tuition at home. If it takes an extra year or two to get all your app assets together and get into an SC school, it's worth it.

"63 credits" doesn't translate well, but if you'll end up with the equivalent of 2 full time years of mostly hard science at close to 4.0, I think the advice you got from local schools is good. Put everything you've got into the MCAT, and don't nickel&dime your score by worrying about your plan B.

Best of luck to you.
 
Hi guys, right now I am planning on doing SMP or post-bacc and could really use help deciding on the next move. I came to US (US citizen now) about 10 years ago and I am graduating with bio major with chemistry and medical science minor @ private school (cGPA of 3.3 and sGPA of 2.4 (BAD)). my cGPA and sGPA were both in 3.5+ range up until end of sophomore year but starting junior year I was faced with death of a family member, foreclosure due to hospital bills...and so forth. I have solid EC (honors (dean's list, research grants), recommendation letters, experience, volunteering and research (2+years with thesis)) but I haven't taken MCAT yet. I am graduating in december and will spend good 3 months prepping for the MCAT. I know I have a horrible GPA but I can use some insights on deciding what to do. Maybe good SMP or Post-bac program advice would be nice Thank you :(
 
Hi guys, right now I am planning on doing SMP or post-bacc and could really use help deciding on the next move. I came to US (US citizen now) about 10 years ago and I am graduating with bio major with chemistry and medical science minor @ private school (cGPA of 3.3 and sGPA of 2.4 (BAD)). my cGPA and sGPA were both in 3.5+ range up until end of sophomore year but starting junior year I was faced with death of a family member, foreclosure due to hospital bills...and so forth. I have solid EC (honors (dean's list, research grants), recommendation letters, experience, volunteering and research (2+years with thesis)) but I haven't taken MCAT yet. I am graduating in december and will spend good 3 months prepping for the MCAT. I know I have a horrible GPA but I can use some insights on deciding what to do. Maybe good SMP or Post-bac program advice would be nice Thank you :(
Unfortunately nobody at your private school helped you understand your options when you go through that much stress. The benefit of going to a private school is supposed to be that you get a more personal experience, but that doesn't seem to be what happened here. You should have been offered a leave of absence. You should have been advised to withdraw from med school prereqs if you weren't succeeding, given the circumstances.

If you want to go to med school, what you need to do is produce a successful, multiple year, full time, undergrad, heavy science academic performance. Most people do that during their normal 4 year undergrad career. You'll need to find another way, after which you might still need to do an SMP.

You can't be looking at the MCAT or SMPs with a 2.4. You won't succeed at either with that foundation.

If you're determined to graduate in December, go ahead, but then go get a job for a few years before you try academics again. Med school will still be there in the future.

Preferably, delay graduation. Add a different science major and spend a couple of years taking all science, getting all A's. You may need to transfer to another school. Regardless, you won't have credibility to pursue medicine until you have a long, strong undergrad science performance, so focus on what gets that done.

Plenty of us on SDN have come back from damage like yours, and it takes years, and money, and lost opportunities. Mostly it takes not quitting. But in all honesty, if there's another career in which you'd be happy, for the love of all that's holy do the other career.

Best of luck to you.
 
I need some advice please.
If you are solely focused on applying to DO schools, is it advised to just retake all the grades that were C's and below? I want to increase my science gpa but I also want to prove to myself and adcoms that I can persevere through other challenging courses. I'm going to do a DIY postbac next year and I was thinking of taking some retakes/some upper division classes (mostly upper division). Which is more ideal because I have several C's that could be replaced.
 
Last edited:
You are now in the rank and file of your state's premeds. The alleged asset of doing a BS/MD is over, done, put it behind you. Wash your hands of it. You may not be required to disclose that you did a BS/MD at all, depending on how your transcript reports things.

If there are other public med schools in your state, then stop focusing on your alma mater for med school. You owe them nothing, and getting in there won't undo anything. Get into the cheapest, best med school you can get into. If that's your alma mater, fine.

Now, imho, there is one big huge thing you need to do, and three less huge things you need to do.

Big huge thing: <there isn't a nice way to say this, and you asked for my thoughts...> Grow up faster if you can. Your school's feedback on your med school interview, and your inability to meet the BS/MD requirements, clearly says to me that maturity is the problem here. If you have been living with your parents, and/or living on their dime, then you haven't had a ton of opportunities to make mistakes and clean up your own messes and be responsible for nontrivial things. This isn't a bad thing for the average 21-22 year old, per se, but it's likely keeping you from knowing what responsibility and leadership are, which is likely keeping you out of med school, and it's likely hurting your decision-making capabilities. People my age (over 40) look at 21-22 year olds who are trying to get into med school, and we think "would I want this person making decisions about my health or my kids' health any time soon?" They aren't interviewing your parents. They aren't interviewing some potential fictional future you.

One piece of advice from my past that I love is this: believe in the product. You are the product, and you have to get a med school to buy you. Would you buy you? Would you guarantee you? Would you take a risk on you, instead of taking a sure thing with another product (another med school applicant)? What do you need to do to be a confidence-inspiring, reliable product?

You have an opportunity to take responsibility, to clean up a mess, now, by putting in the time and effort and commitment to overcome your undergrad performance so far. It may take more than a year. It may take skills you don't have yet. It may take a ton of humility. It may not be worth it down the road. But it's an opportunity.

Only a subset of the job of a physician is learned in med school and residency - much of the job is having a powerful work ethic and having people skills and being responsible. You need to master work ethic, people skills and responsibility now.

Less huge thing #1: as your school told you, you need more and better clinical exposure. Other than your thesis, your EC list looks like a high schooler's. I suggest you may be thinking like an MA/CNA/LPN. You need to think like a doctor. What are doctors responsible for, in detail? What are their obstacles on a daily basis? What are they thinking while they're working? What do they have to know about people and processes to get their jobs done?

Use your next clinical volunteering gig to get access to a variety of physicians. Try to get multiple docs to tell you what they hate about med students (and then obsess about how to not be like that). Try to get multiple docs to tell you why you shouldn't do medicine (and then obsess about whether these complaints are valid for you). Try to get multiple docs to tell you about their nightmare experiences with clinic/hospital administration.

Less huge thing #2: Take enough additional difficult undergrad science to demonstrate (to yourself!!!) that you can be the A student you need to be, for med school to not suck. Suffer for a bunch of A's. One more year of undergrad, taking a more-than-full load of all science, at a 3.7+, is what I'm talking about (not a class or two, not retakes, but fresh painful difficult classes). That may be all you need to do for coursework. Or, you may find that you need another year to get it done, and/or that you also need an SMP. Comebacks don't follow a schedule.

Less huge thing #3: Break 31 on the MCAT with no less than a 10 in each section.

There's plenty more to do, such as getting LORs, writing good essays, and making sure you apply early and broadly.

Bottom line: make sure you really, really, really want this. It would be healthy to make sure you have a clue about other careers as well - how do you know that medicine is the only thing you want to do?

Best of luck to you.

Dr Midlife,

I just wanted to thank you for this post. A year and a half later, I have interviewed at a half dozen schools and been accepted to Tufts and my state school alma mater.

I took your advice to heart and got a 3.83 in a SMP in a major city, accumulated 150+ hours of shadowing, 120+ working as a case manager in a community clinic, did another thesis for my SMP, and got a 35 on the MCAT. I also applied way earlier.

I printed out your post and stuck it next to a copy of my rejection letter on the wall near my desk. I sent a letter of thanks to my advisor but in all honesty I should be thanking you.

So thanks Dr. Midlife - you told me what nobody else was blunt enough to tell me.

To anyone else looking to make it, my biggest break through was to approach the application process from the perspective of an adcom. They want someone who reveals his personal growth and desire for medicine through their ECs. Someone who can tell a consistent, meaningful story about their journey toward medicine. It sounded like BS to me too back then, but after significant introspection it made sense and fueled me this year. Filling out the AMCAS this time around was so much easier and enjoyable and it really helped my interviews.

Happy to help if any of you have questions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
A year and a half later, I have interviewed at a half dozen schools and been accepted to Tufts and my state school alma mater.
Congrats - your hard work has clearly paid off.

Midlife knows her stuff, and im glad you are here to validate so others can see that is a great asset to this forum
 
Hi all,

I'm looking for some advice on whether to go with an SMP or do a post-bacc program. Preferably, I'd like to do an SMP, but I don't want to waste time applying if it's not worth it.

My qualifications are:

3.075 cGPa
2.98 sGPA

2 years of research; one publication underway. About 50 hours of volunteering at a VA hospital.
No shadowing (I know this is something I should have done)
I'm in a leadership position in my social fraternity, and on a student board which helps students with disabilities for my university.
My worst part of the application, which is really tough to get over, is the fact that I took the MCAT twice and got 26 both times. I won't make any excuses for my performance, but I'm going to take it one more time. I know it reflects my ability to do well on boards etc in medical school, but I still want to prove that I'm capable enough to do well.

I will be graduating in May, so I only have one semester left. If I do well, my sgpa will be well over 3.0.
After reading this thread, I've become sort of confused because I'm not sure whether I should retake prereqs that I didn't do well on, or whether I should consider an SMP. Are my stats enough to get in one? My ideal SMP is EVMS, but any other program that has a linkage is fine with me.

Any advice would be extremely appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 
Hi all,

I'm looking for some advice on whether to go with an SMP or do a post-bacc program. Preferably, I'd like to do an SMP, but I don't want to waste time applying if it's not worth it.

My qualifications are:

3.075 cGPa
2.98 sGPA

2 years of research; one publication underway. About 50 hours of volunteering at a VA hospital.
No shadowing (I know this is something I should have done)
I'm in a leadership position in my social fraternity, and on a student board which helps students with disabilities for my university.
My worst part of the application, which is really tough to get over, is the fact that I took the MCAT twice and got 26 both times. I won't make any excuses for my performance, but I'm going to take it one more time. I know it reflects my ability to do well on boards etc in medical school, but I still want to prove that I'm capable enough to do well.

I will be graduating in May, so I only have one semester left. If I do well, my sgpa will be well over 3.0.
After reading this thread, I've become sort of confused because I'm not sure whether I should retake prereqs that I didn't do well on, or whether I should consider an SMP. Are my stats enough to get in one? My ideal SMP is EVMS, but any other program that has a linkage is fine with me.

Any advice would be extremely appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Have you thought about doing post-bacc work to raise your GPA/establish upward trend while beefing up you ECs? This may be a good idea. Also, you need a higher MCAT unless you want to go D.O. route.

EVMS will not have the same strong linkage as once boasted. I believe they have 65 students in the program now with talk of pushing that towards 100 next year; no way will they have 85% acceptance rate.

Don't rush this. Take the time to raise GPA, get experiences, do well on the MCAT, then apply SMP. Also, get some shadowing! In the meantime, start researching other SMPs that still have linkage.
 
Have you thought about doing post-bacc work to raise your GPA/establish upward trend while beefing up you ECs? This may be a good idea. Also, you need a higher MCAT unless you want to go D.O. route.

EVMS will not have the same strong linkage as once boasted. I believe they have 65 students in the program now with talk of pushing that towards 100 next year; no way will they have 85% acceptance rate.

Don't rush this. Take the time to raise GPA, get experiences, do well on the MCAT, then apply SMP. Also, get some shadowing! In the meantime, start researching other SMPs that still have linkage.


Thank you for the response!
I saw in the previous posts in this thread, people recommended the same thing. If I follow this path, doesn't that mean that I'll be taking essentially 2 years off? If I do post-bacc work in the fall of 2014, then do an SMP in the fall of 2015, apply to medical school and get in, doesn't that mean I'd start medical school in 2016? Don't get me wrong, I want to become a doctor no matter what, but am I in that position where I need to do post-bacc, then SMP and then medical school?
 
Thank you for the response!
I saw in the previous posts in this thread, people recommended the same thing. If I follow this path, doesn't that mean that I'll be taking essentially 2 years off? If I do post-bacc work in the fall of 2014, then do an SMP in the fall of 2015, apply to medical school and get in, doesn't that mean I'd start medical school in 2016? Don't get me wrong, I want to become a doctor no matter what, but am I in that position where I need to do post-bacc, then SMP and then medical school?

I was in almost the same position as you GPA-wise. It is going to take time. Don't forget you are in a world with plenty of 3.8+, 35+ MCAT applicants, and you can be looked over very easily. You need a story that stands out of the pack. It took me over 4 years to get an application together worthy of an acceptance. I needed to dig myself out of a deep hole , as do you.

I can't predict the future so I do not know if you will be lucky enough to get in with just an SMP, but you certainly need to retake that MCAT for MD. If I were in your position, I would try and find a clinical job, such a clinical research coordinator or scribe, and begin taking at least 2 upper-level science courses while shadowing and volunteering. You need to get NOTHING below an A from now on. Start researching SMPs and retake MCAT. Also, read as much as you can in SDN. It is probably going to take you over 2 years, so find a cool job and a cool place to live to pass the time; and it will pass faster than you think.
 
So I have an enormous problem and I even get the feeling that from the most lenient and optimistic members on this forum will even tell me that my chances of anything happening are impossible. But here's my story: My cGPA: 2.53 and my sGPA: 2.49. My reasons for doing so horribly in undergrad? Immaturity, lack of understanding of why medicine is so selective when it comes to their candidates, and purely having a sense of false entitlement to my "potential" as my previous adviser used to tell me.

After leaving my Biochemistry, Cellular, and Molecular Biology degree for a Psychology degree, I managed to do much better, but I was still immature when it came to my courses and had a Psychology GPA of a 2.96 which can easily be bumped up to above a 3.0 with one upper level Psychology course. After realizing I wasted my life and my potential because of my irresponsibility, I decided that I would need to retake sciences courses in order to really see if I can learn from my mistakes. Unfortunately, jumping back into upper level biology courses after a year of not taking any while finishing up my Psychology major with a bunch of upper levels was not a good move. I ended up failing an Advanced Cell Biology course and getting a C in an embryology course (what's even worse is that I had attempted to take both these courses before and I had failed Advanced Cell. The only thing that I realized at the end is that my last exam grade in embryology was an 86... I was still learning how to study for these courses. I took the cell bio course after moving back to my hometown at a 4 year university (I do live in a big city). I received a C+, but that still wasn't good enough. The class required reading the book and I had not learned to adapt This past fall semester I decided to really push and improve. I took all upper-level biology courses and ended up with the results listed: Microbiology B, Vertebrate Physiology B, Virology A-, and Pharmacology C. I spoke to my Pharmacology professor about my final grade as I did have a difficult semester since I had to take care of my 93 year old grandmother since she had fallen and had a non-threatening small pelvic fracture that gave her much pain. My grades on the exams in Pharmacology were a 36/40, 25/40, and a 33/40. My second exam really blew me out of the water and set me into a panic and it was at the time my grandmother fell. However, with my past as it is, my story doesn't matter. I just needed 6 questions on my second exam and I would've had a B, but I also have the perspective that I could've had 6 questions more on my third exam. I am responsible for my grades no matter what.

I am seeing improvement in my performance in rigorous upper level biology courses. I have learned how to study and I have this coming Spring semester to push even further. I am also doing research in my department. My Pharmacology professor has also offered to write me a letter of recommendation... at least that is what she said and I am hoping she hasn't changed her mind (I do research for her and my Virology professor). Right now, I have a BA in Psychology and after this semester I will have a BS in Biology. I will also be shadowing research MDs at a nationally renown children's research hospital hopefully around April in a bone marrow transplant department. I took my GREs and came out with a 155 (530 on old scale) Verbal and a Quantitative of 156 (720 on old scale) with a 4 on the Writing section. I am also working as a teacher/tutor for a private test prep company

My first step is to get into an SMP program, BUT I know for a fact that with my GPA issues they would not accept me right now. Even though I have shown I can receive good grades in rigorous upper level courses in 1 semester I still have a C and a C+ haunting my transcript from when I began to push to change my academic performance. Yes, this is an upward trend, but I feel like it's not enough of an upward trend. I can wait a year before applying to SMPs after I do research/shadow at this children's research hospital, but will that be enough? I also took an MCAT practice test and I got a 26. I don't care about the word "potential" anymore, because I know that for SMPs and for any DO school, what matters is not showing potential, but meeting potential.

All my advisors are telling me to give up completely and show me the infamous AAMC table of acceptance percentages for med school applicants (DO & MD) with certain MCATs and GPAs. I'm just frustrated because it seems like no matter what I improve on and no matter how much I change, no one is going to be impressed enough to even give me a chance to be given the privilege of being responsible for a person's life in dire medical distress...EVER. I'm working at meeting my potential and I don't want to be arrogant or unrealistic, but something just tells me to keep going even if I get rejected 7 times in a row. Am I just infatuated with this idea of becoming a physician? It seems like everyone from the most recent posts had at least 3.0s in their sGPA and cGPA. Even the medical school private advising companies seem to only talk about students with at least a minimum 3.0 GPA. Just help me out whether it be bashing my hopes (seen a lot of that) or telling me that I still have a chance (even if by some miracle).
 
My first step is to get into an SMP program
Nope. You're not near the SMP stage yet. Maybe a masters program at a DO school, but not a regular SMP.

You'll be taken seriously as a med school aspirant after you have produced a multi-year, mostly hard science, mostly A's undergrad performance. You are maybe at the very beginning of that performance. You should absolutely not take the MCAT until you have pulled a whole bunch of A's in retaken prereqs and other hard science. You will have to be creative and flexible in making this happen.

If you spend less than a dozen hours studying this whole entire thread here that has similar stories and consistent advice, then you simply are not serious.

Premed advisers should be assumed to know absolutely nothing about GPA redemption.

If you are in California it will be quite a bit more difficult.

Best of luck to you.
 
+1 on what Dr. Midlife said.

My advice to you is almost the same as what I gave to oneandonly516 above. However, I feel that you will need to complete more courses than he/she until your undergraduate GPA is above 3.0. Take upper-level science courses and retake any pre-reqs you have a C or below in. Also you cannot get below a 30 on your MCAT. You have a very long and difficult road ahead of you.
 
Nope. You're not near the SMP stage yet. Maybe a masters program at a DO school, but not a regular SMP.

You'll be taken seriously as a med school aspirant after you have produced a multi-year, mostly hard science, mostly A's undergrad performance. You are maybe at the very beginning of that performance. You should absolutely not take the MCAT until you have pulled a whole bunch of A's in retaken prereqs and other hard science. You will have to be creative and flexible in making this happen.

If you spend less than a dozen hours studying this whole entire thread here that has similar stories and consistent advice, then you simply are not serious.

Premed advisers should be assumed to know absolutely nothing about GPA redemption.

If you are in California it will be quite a bit more difficult.

Best of luck to you.
Excuse my rash venting on the forum. I will go back and read through each of the 63 pages of this forum and do my research. Strangely enough, yesterday I discussed retaking my organics before taking my biochem since they are needed to understand the biochem material. It's been 5 years since I took organic and now with two more strangers on a forum telling me to retake prereqs I think that is what I need to do. I may have to ask special permission to take some masters level courses at my university for the hard science category after I take the 5 courses left in their selection for upper lvl undergrad courses. I'm not in California... I'm in Tennessee.
 
+1 on what Dr. Midlife said.

My advice to you is almost the same as what I gave to oneandonly516 above. However, I feel that you will need to complete more courses than he/she until your undergraduate GPA is above 3.0. Take upper-level science courses and retake any pre-reqs you have a C or below in. Also you cannot get below a 30 on your MCAT. You have a very long and difficult road ahead of you.
Getting my undergraduate GPA to a 3.0 is possible since after retaking pre-reqs (and of course putting the work forward to do well) the grades are replaced at my university. My pharmacology professor said the same thing as your last two lines and I am not surprised, but my worry and stress will be necessary to keep me going. Thank you NorthernMav and Dr. Midlife!
 
Getting my undergraduate GPA to a 3.0 is possible since after retaking pre-reqs (and of course putting the work forward to do well) the grades are replaced at my university. My pharmacology professor said the same thing as your last two lines and I am not surprised, but my worry and stress will be necessary to keep me going. Thank you NorthernMav and Dr. Midlife!
Do note that it does not matter whether or not your college replaces grades for re-takes. If the class you re-took is listed anywhere on your transcript (as it was with my school) both will be averaged in for your AMCAS GPA. Good Luck!
 
Hi everyone, I am in a terrible position here and need advice from senior members or those who have been in my position and succeeded. I am dead set on pursuing an MD degree but my GPA is terrible. I will be graduating this May 2014 from U of Illinois in Champaign with a Psychology degree. I have not taken the MCAT yet. I have a cGPA of 2.5 and sGPA of 2.4. ACT back in the day was 31. I have over 500 hours of volunteering a local hospital in the Emergency Dept, Invasive vascular services, and oncology ward. One year of being a research assistant in our school of social work, studying the symptom outcomes of same-race and different-race patient-doctor pairs. I have worked part time throughout undergrad to pay for living expenses and child support (because we are not a married couple).

I had a decent first 2 years of undergrad, but no upward trend. Had about 3.4 cGPA and 3.3 sGPA by junior year. Then I became a father to a beautiful baby boy my Junior year at age 20, which put a big dent in my academics because of my family commitments. I have already retroactively withdrawn from my Junior year Spring semester. Now I am about to graduate in May, and I am happy to have even made it there! I have completed the OChem, GenChem, and Bio sequences with only Physics 2 left. Through counseling and family support, I have learned to better balance my fatherly duties and those of school. I would very much like to be a psychiatrist one day. I am from a third world country that has been war-torn, and after moving to the US in 1997 my mother was suffering from PTSD. Through the behavioral and chemical therapy of a psychiatrist, my mother was able to return to a normal life and seeing this as a child greatly influenced me. At age 20, my girlfriend was dealing depression while pregnant and this weighed on me heavily. Watching her become healed by a psychiatrist, and then the phenomenal work of her Ob/Gyn and pediatrician during my baby boy's delivery solidified my choice of becoming a physician.

My question is, should I not graduate and instead stay in undergrad and pursue a second Bachelors so I can strengthen my GPA? If so, in what program?
Should I graduate, take a year or two off and work in a clinical setting job, then take the MCAT and apply? My understanding is that my GPA is not high enough to apply to an SMP or post bacc. Also I have taken all prereqs except Phys 2 and Bio lab, so I don't think I qualify for a post bacc.

Now at age 21, with a semester left before I graduate, I need advice on how to proceed. Please and thank you.
You need to start getting As, ASAP.

The best path for you, IMO - is to take a 2nd bachelors degree in Biology/Chem or some hard science. And rock it, like 3.7+ rock it. As that progresses, you can re-assess your chances for med school and whether or not you are a good fit.

If you've put all this life stuff behind you and you get those great grades, you are in a good position to recover from a lousy 2.5 GPA. If you can't get those grades, and there are no "life problems" then maybe medicine isn't for you
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Do note that it does not matter whether or not your college replaces grades for re-takes. If the class you re-took is listed anywhere on your transcript (as it was with my school) both will be averaged in for your AMCAS GPA. Good Luck!
Speaking of getting my cGPA up to a 3.0, my advisor just told me that the maximum I can get my cGPA up for undergraduate would be a 2.7. Also, that if I graduate with my degree this semester, they will not be able to replace my grades, but the grades would be seen as separate coursework. Should I delay graduating and holding a Bachelor's in Psych and Bio? Does it even matter since I will still be retaking my foundational courses regardless of whether or not they replace my grades at my university?
 
Speaking of getting my cGPA up to a 3.0, my advisor just told me that the maximum I can get my cGPA up for undergraduate would be a 2.7. Also, that if I graduate with my degree this semester, they will not be able to replace my grades, but the grades would be seen as separate coursework. Should I delay graduating and holding a Bachelor's in Psych and Bio? Does it even matter since I will still be retaking my foundational courses regardless of whether or not they replace my grades at my university?

This was answered for you already.

Given that you seem to only have ~1 poor year of coursework, DO grade replacement is something you should seriously consider as you could put together a competitive DO application possibly years before MD.

Taking graduate courses won't help your undergraduate GPA since they're not undergraduate courses...
 
Speaking of getting my cGPA up to a 3.0, my advisor just told me that the maximum I can get my cGPA up for undergraduate would be a 2.7. Also, that if I graduate with my degree this semester, they will not be able to replace my grades, but the grades would be seen as separate coursework. Should I delay graduating and holding a Bachelor's in Psych and Bio? Does it even matter since I will still be retaking my foundational courses regardless of whether or not they replace my grades at my university?
Whether you delay graduation or take post-bacc courses, they both with calculate into your undergraduate GPA. If you are serious about medical school, I guess another year of college full-time will be a more time efficient way of cramming in more courses to raise your GPA. However, you need to find an AMCAS GPA calculator (search the threads) and find out how many courses you need to take in order to hit that 3.0 mark.
 
regardless of whether or not they replace my grades at my university?
Your university doesn't get a vote on this. When you apply to med school, you enter every course you ever took anywhere, line by line, and the app service calculates your GPAs according to its own rules (which are published in detail). Any GPA or replaced grade or transferred coursework on a transcript is completely ignored.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I have been struggling for over 4 years to say this:

M.D. Class of 2018.

Finally broke free from the hopeless gravity of a 2.7 undergrad GPA and haven't looked back. It can be done!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
Congrats @NorthernMav, I saw you on the school thread. I'm currently waitlisted there.

3.4 GPA, 3.23 sGPA , 31 MCAT. (A lot of clinical + good EC's) Anyways, I'm preparing for the next cycle incase I'm not able to get off the waitlists I'm currently on. (Hope for the best, prepare for the worst).

The only red flag I can possibly think of on my application is my GPA. I'm trying to measure out the pros and cons of taking an SMP. It's obviously a high-risk high reward scenario. Do I have any other options?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Hello all, I posted this earlier but i think its better suited in the low GPA thread.

I am currently in a post-bacc program in CA (CA resident also) and I'm in need of some advice... I'm wondering if I should continue another year of post-bacc, apply to SMP, or just go ahead and apply this cycle (which was my current plan -- MD, DO).

A little about myself.. I was a transfer student from a state school to a private university. My gpa pre-transfer was around 3.5, post transfer was about 2.9 for many reasons (I don't want to give a sob story) -- working too much, taking 5 classes per semester, had a hard time adjusting and had a lot of personal problems, etc, well anyway I don't want to focus too much on that.
Ultimately, after 5 years of undergrad (mostly Cs in UD bio) I ended with up with a cGPA of 3.19 and sGPA of 2.86

I'm doing a 1 year post-bacc right now and will most LIKELY end up with a post-bacc GPA of 3.72, cGPA of 3.26, sGPA 3.04. I'm wondering if another year of post bacc will do me any good, because it will only raise my gpa at most to like 3.3 and 3.1.

Right now I'm trying to focus all my efforts on the MCAT. I have until June and am only taking 2 UD bio classes, not really working except math tutoring on the side. Obviously I am aiming for a 30+, more so toward a 35, but I don't want to be unrealistic. Because I am taking in the MCAT in June, I am afraid I might be too late to apply to an SMP.

Any advice? Thank you!
 
Hello all, I posted this earlier but i think its better suited in the low GPA thread.

I am currently in a post-bacc program in CA (CA resident also) and I'm in need of some advice... I'm wondering if I should continue another year of post-bacc, apply to SMP, or just go ahead and apply this cycle (which was my current plan -- MD, DO).

A little about myself.. I was a transfer student from a state school to a private university. My gpa pre-transfer was around 3.5, post transfer was about 2.9 for many reasons (I don't want to give a sob story) -- working too much, taking 5 classes per semester, had a hard time adjusting and had a lot of personal problems, etc, well anyway I don't want to focus too much on that.
Ultimately, after 5 years of undergrad (mostly Cs in UD bio) I ended with up with a cGPA of 3.19 and sGPA of 2.86

I'm doing a 1 year post-bacc right now and will most LIKELY end up with a post-bacc GPA of 3.72, cGPA of 3.26, sGPA 3.04. I'm wondering if another year of post bacc will do me any good, because it will only raise my gpa at most to like 3.3 and 3.1.

Right now I'm trying to focus all my efforts on the MCAT. I have until June and am only taking 2 UD bio classes, not really working except math tutoring on the side. Obviously I am aiming for a 30+, more so toward a 35, but I don't want to be unrealistic. Because I am taking in the MCAT in June, I am afraid I might be too late to apply to an SMP.

Any advice? Thank you!


Can I ask a question of you that I have for many people on here? How do you pay for all this extra schooling? I desperately want to go to dental school (3.1 gpa, BS Biochemistry), but I don't understand how you guys are able to just keep going to school? Paying for classes+attending classes+apartment rent+ug student loans+car insurance+medical insurance+food+occasional fun. Do most people on here work full time alongside taking all these classes. My parents helped me out with undergrad, but now, they are not going to pay another dime on my education. HOWHOWHOW do you afford/accept all this financial risk?
 
Paying for classes+attending classes+apartment rent+ug student loans+car insurance+medical insurance+food+occasional fun. Do most people on here work full time alongside taking all these classes. My parents helped me out with undergrad, but now, they are not going to pay another dime on my education. HOWHOWHOW do you afford/accept all this financial risk?

Honestly T14dan money is a huge issue for my family and I. I really can't afford to keep going to school because after doing post bacc full time for a semester, we are all tapped out. So when people are telling you to do another year and do this this and that I'm a bit hesitant (I know it's for our own good though)...This is one of the reasons I'm only taking two classes this semester instead of a full course load as well. I'm paying for most of it with loans (subsidized/unsub). It doesn't cover everything, but I was lucky enough that my parents would help cover the rest. Unfortunately, since I don't really work I've been pretty much living off my parents for everything (housing/food/gas/etc) but this semester my loans covered the 2 classes. Trust me it's not the ideal situation living with your parents and mooching off them, but the way I see it, one day I'll pay them back. It's a financial struggle but worth it.

To sum it all up, I don't think you can qualify for federal grants after you graduate (I didn't), but you can get federal loans. Also try applying for scholarships. My school offers some for post bacc students, but they are in pretty small amounts.
 
I'm pretty stunned by how much money my classmates get from family. This is a rich kid game.

For postbac, particularly on a low GPA comeback, you really have to figure things out for yourself. The variables with states and schools are too many to count.

One strategy is to get a job at a school where you get tuition coverage for a couple classes per semester.

Another strategy is to do a 2nd bachelors, but you can't support a family on the federal loans for that. Maybe $12.5k/yr.

If you are responsible for a family, and there's no outside money, then you pretty much have to wait until the spouse can work and the kids are in school.

Generally federal loans are not something to worry about if you are reasonably well qualified for med school. Worrisome debt is consumer debt (credit cards, car loans) and private student loans. There's no way to handle those.

For what it's worth, my med school has 2-3 students over 40 in each MD class, and at least a dozen in their 30's. You can get away with postponing med school, pretty much.

Best of luck to you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I'm pretty stunned by how much money my classmates get from family. This is a rich kid game.

For postbac, particularly on a low GPA comeback, you really have to figure things out for yourself. The variables with states and schools are too many to count.

One strategy is to get a job at a school where you get tuition coverage for a couple classes per semester.

Another strategy is to do a 2nd bachelors, but you can't support a family on the federal loans for that. Maybe $12.5k/yr.

If you are responsible for a family, and there's no outside money, then you pretty much have to wait until the spouse can work and the kids are in school.

Generally federal loans are not something to worry about if you are reasonably well qualified for med school. Worrisome debt is consumer debt (credit cards, car loans) and private student loans. There's no way to handle those.

For what it's worth, my med school has 2-3 students over 40 in each MD class, and at least a dozen in their 30's. You can get away with postponing med school, pretty much.

Best of luck to you.
Thank you. I just fear that I will never get in. Once you have a job and have to support yourself on 40-50k per year, you realize that it is really difficult to earn any money to put to school or devote any time towards school. I want to retire wealthy and travel around the world, not live paycheck to paycheck until I eek enough social security for the rest of my life. I wish school didn't exist, there were only tests on book material, and it was up to the students to learn the material. Even the best professors can't make a student learn, you have to find a way to force your brain to retain the material. Notecards, practice tests, ect. I did well during my first two years in college 3.6(A's ChemI/II/OrgoI/BioI/Calculus/Physics I&II). During my junior year I started having health problems. I spent 24 hours a day worrying about my health and couldn't focus on schoolwork. I should have taken a few years off school to get better, but my parents really wanted me to finish the degree sooner rather than later. That was a mistake. Now I want to go back and do well, but my parents have completely lost faith in me, and won't give me a dime. (despite the fact that my dad is a multimillionaire)
 
If retiring rich is the goal, do something else. A GPA comeback to med school is a really, really, really dumb way to try to get into a high income career.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
If retiring rich is the goal, do something else. A GPA comeback to med school is a really, really, really dumb way to try to get into a high income career.

I don't think so. 4 years sounds like a long time when you are young, but some doctors retire 10 years later than others and I will want to retire late. That being said, I want to go to dental school, not medical school. (I am not good enough to be an MD, my brother and dad do that). My earlier post said that.. Consolidation will kill medicine and I will never be a hospital slave or a government employee. I have nothing but respect for people who choose that route, I'm just a person who would like to own my own business and hire employees. If you play your cards right in dentistry, you can be a business owner and work 3 days a week making 300,000 until your seventies. You may stop doing complex procedures in your 60's, but then you can choose to have a steady income stream OR choose sell your practice.
 
I personally would consider Dental school as 'something else' in regards to getting an MD/DO. There are other routes to a well paying job that allows you to help people, without all the mess and fuss post-bacs, medical school, residency... etc.

But hey, it's for people to find their own road, DrMidLife is just advising people to think very carefully about which direction they take.

Gotta say, studying until you fall over almost every night will become the norm (Unless you're fantastically brilliant, and let's face it, we the people of the low GPA probably don't fit that mold... not saying we ain't smart, but if getting stellar grades/scores/etc came easily we probably wouldn't be posting here), and the long hours of study will begin as you start walking down that road, and will continue for years.

Yes, keeping the immediate goal in view is important, it helps keeps us motivated, and keeps us going. But for those of you contemplating the path, the long hours do not end with the good grades for the post-bac/required courses, they do not end after the MCAT, they continue into the 1st year and 2nd years of medical school, and then comes Step 1 which is much like another MCAT (in that it is seen as 'setting your fate' for which residencies will be within reach, and which ones will be a stretch), and then 3rd year comes and a pay off of sorts begins, no longer are the long hours spent solely sitting on your butt studying, now you can practice some of the things you have been studying these long years for, but it doesn't necessarily shorten the length of your days, and it doesn't mean it is the end of your studies... because at the end of every month is another exam to study for, another exam that will be graded and ranked, and your potential fate decided (in some small part) based of if you did better than all the other rock stars who made it into medical school with you, then comes YET ANOTHER EXAM! Step 2 this time it's not as big of a deal, but it's still kinda a big deal so you better not mess it up, because you need the score while you apply for a job (YES! a job, finally the real pay off for the years and years you have worked to get to this point), and then the long hours traveling to all the interviews on top of your clinical duties (scheduled often on you're only 5-6 days off during that month), and after all that you finally make it to Match day where you find out, that not only will you be a doctor, but a doctor who can actually practice something! Hurray! It's only been 4 (ok the last few months of 4th year are usually pretty chill so we will say 3.5 years of long hard hours in Medical school) + how ever many years it took you to work on your grades/pre-reqs to get into medical school.. It's glorious, it's awesome... it must be the end right... possibly because I think this has been one long sentence and there has to be an end coming along shortly right? Ha ha ha! No! It is only the beginning! Because Post-Bac, then MCAT, then fighting to get into school, then working your butt off for another 3.5 years, then fighting to get a residency spot wins you the lottery, the golden pie! The golden pie being the chance to work your butt off again for 3-7 years, while reading as much you can, always challenging yourself to be better, always striving to be better, while working in emotionally stressful situations, not always having a chance to get as much sleep as you would like (Yeah the work hour rules help, but there will always be situations where violations happen (i.e. the ER sends you 4 patients just before shift change, and that would have been all well and good if someone hadn't tried to die on you), and then you still have more exams, like an In-training where again you are graded against all the other go-getters who have traveled with you thus far, and at the end... another exam... the big one, the Board Certifying exam. (But wait! There's more! You get to re-certify every few years! It never ends!) - The editor would like to note, at this point the author was given Haldol IM and placed in an inpatient observation unit. We hear she is doing quite well with the finger paints, and has been making progress in the daily group therapy sessions, but we have been told she has made the medical personnel quite irate with her insistence on listing all of the side effects of all the medications she is on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I personally would consider Dental school as 'something else' in regards to getting an MD/DO. There are other routes to a well paying job that allows you to help people, without all the mess and fuss post-bacs, medical school, residency... etc.


But hey, it's for people to find their own road, DrMidLife is just advising people to think very carefully about which direction they take.

Gotta say, studying until you fall over almost every night will become the norm (Unless you're fantastically brilliant, and let's face it, we the people of the low GPA probably don't fit that mold... not saying we ain't smart, but if getting stellar grades/scores/etc came easily we probably wouldn't be posting here), and the long hours of study will begin as you start walking down that road, and will continue for years.


I gotta say. Most jobs are going to be difficult if you want to be at the top of your field. I know it is tempting to say that doctors work harder than everyone else, but most jobs that pay well are going to put stress on people. I really don't view doctors as the smartest, most noble, or hardest working. Imagine the person who grew up with no formal education beyond GED and who spends hours in a plant doing repetitive tasks, alway afraid that they will get fired in the case of an industry downturn. There are no easy paths in life. Medicine is prestigious, but I generally view doctors as people who "got it" EARLIER when it comes to studying and doing well. I know a lot of doctors and some are truly brilliant and some are truly *****s. There is always going to be "FUSS" and no matter what job you go into, there will be competition. The sooner you understand this, the more empathetic and respectful a human being you will be.
 
I gotta say. Most jobs are going to be difficult if you want to be at the top of your field. I know it is tempting to say that doctors work harder than everyone else, but most jobs that pay well are going to put stress on people. I really don't view doctors as the smartest, most noble, or hardest working. Imagine the person who grew up with no formal education beyond GED and who spends hours in a plant doing repetitive tasks, alway afraid that they will get fired in the case of an industry downturn. There are no easy paths in life. Medicine is prestigious, but I generally view doctors as people who "got it" EARLIER when it comes to studying and doing well. I know a lot of doctors and some are truly brilliant and some are truly *****s. There is always going to be "FUSS" and no matter what job you go into, there will be competition. The sooner you understand this, the more empathetic and respectful a human being you will be.

LOL! I hope you are not trying to say I'm the one who needs to understand <what you posted about> to be more empathetic and respectful.

I was collaborating with your statement that by going to dental school, it is 'something else' other than Medical School. And even though dental school and the dat are competitive and you will have to study to get in... it's still not medical school, partially for the reasons you outlined above about consolidation, being your own business partner, working 3 days a week and making $300K. Dental school is an easier road to that lifestyle than being an MD/DO. I was outlining and highlighting that fact by saying "It doesn't end once you get into medical school". Because though it is possible to work 3 days a week and make $300k as a physician, getting there is a much longer road than by being a dentist. And I was making this point for the audience at large, since you seem to have already made a very well reasoned and insightful choice to go the Pre-Dental route, and that others may benefit from knowing that there are other roads to travel, if they are looking for a high income and involves taking care of people.

I wish you the best on your own personal journey T14dan.

(And now I will slink back off into my forum slumber... because I only seem to post the day before a step. And this is the last step! so maybe no more posting from me ever! Ha ha... who am I kidding, I'll post about fellowships :woot:)
 
Last edited:
Top