Why do some go from PharmD to MD/DO?

[RNtoPharmD]

Assuming I get in, I will be around 38 when done with residency, which really isn't that old. You have the potential of 30+ yrs of practice ahead of you.

yeah... but at least, you have a well-paying job as a hospital pharmacist and have money saved up for med school. Therefore, you can still have a life in med school..

I can't imagine that I would continue to be a nurse for at least next 5-6 years. (Assuming I were to apply and get in, I still have to work once in a while in nursing before and in med school to avoid sub-standard living condition)... it's ok if I can find non-bedside job...

Good luck with med school admission..

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[anderac]

I am a former PharmD who practiced for three years then started medical school. I love medicine, and am excited to be able to do more things when I get out.
As difficult as pharmacy school was, medical school is even harder. But I think the payoff of professional satisfaction will be much higher when I graduate, than it was for me in pharmacy school.
Good luck to all of you still in school - particularly PharmDs who are now back in med school!

 

[meister]

Why do you think it's harder? What year are you?

 

[anderac]

I am a first year. It is more difficult because you are given much, much more information in medical school than you are in pharmacy school. Classes last much longer throughout the day. However, the administration and the faculty are much more laid back here at medical school. They don't feel that they have anything to prove (unlike pharmacy school, where the staff all want to be doctors).

 

[nnguyenc]

I am a first year. It is more difficult because you are given much, much more information in medical school than you are in pharmacy school. Classes last much longer throughout the day. However, the administration and the faculty are much more laid back here at medical school. They don't feel that they have anything to prove (unlike pharmacy school, where the staff all want to be doctors).

how old are you if you don't mind me asking?

everybody here considered that route atleast once before even though they deny it

i've considered it many times...but i'm about 150k in debt...so geez...

 

[PumpkinSmasher]

I am a first year. It is more difficult because you are given much, much more information in medical school than you are in pharmacy school. Classes last much longer throughout the day. However, the administration and the faculty are much more laid back here at medical school. They don't feel that they have anything to prove (unlike pharmacy school, where the staff all want to be doctors).

Shut your face when you're talking to me!

 

[bigpharmD]

I am a former PharmD who practiced for three years then started medical school. I love medicine, and am excited to be able to do more things when I get out.
As difficult as pharmacy school was, medical school is even harder. But I think the payoff of professional satisfaction will be much higher when I graduate, than it was for me in pharmacy school.
Good luck to all of you still in school - particularly PharmDs who are now back in med school!

like what....write messy prescriptions, work 20 days in a row, do endless amounts of paperwork, be told by admins that you need to see more patients, get paged by nurses all day, get belittled by attendings...sometimes the grass isnt always greener...look at all the mds giving up practice.

 

[Priapism321]

like what....write messy prescriptions

Easy killer, my Attending told me the other day my handwriting was too sloppy, and that I needed to get my font up to 12 point if I wanted to avoid medication errors. I felt like such a huge hypocrite.

 

[anderac]

Whoa, whoa! look as though I have touched a couple of nerves - pumpkinsmasher and bigPharmD take note.
The creativity is better as a physician - more say in the patient care. More decision making. More career opportunities. Sitting behind a desk counting pills all day getting chewed out because the copay was higher this month is not my idea of a good job. Now, if I was really stupid and wanted to waste 70,000 dollars and a year (or two) of my life I would have pursued a pharmacy residency (snicker snicker). They teach you to do things like it is going to be like that when you get out, and then you end up still behind a counter, counting little blue pills, not seeing patients in clinic, oh... sorry bigPharmD. Well, maybe things will have changed when you get out (*clearing of throat).

 

[ItsOverZyvox]

Whoa, whoa! look as though I have touched a couple of nerves - pumpkinsmasher and bigPharmD take note.
The creativity is better as a physician - more say in the patient care. More decision making. More career opportunities. Sitting behind a desk counting pills all day getting chewed out because the copay was higher this month is not my idea of a good job. Now, if I was really stupid and wanted to waste 70,000 dollars and a year (or two) of my life I would have pursued a pharmacy residency (snicker snicker). They teach you to do things like it is going to be like that when you get out, and then you end up still behind a counter, counting little blue pills, not seeing patients in clinic, oh... sorry bigPharmD. Well, maybe things will have changed when you get out (*clearing of throat).

And while you'll be slaving away through internship, residency and fellowship only to come out and pay off your debt at 50, some of us work from home and make hospital site visits throughout the country and decide what you can and can't prescribe..

 

[RxWildcat]

whoa, whoa! Look as though i have touched a couple of nerves - pumpkinsmasher and bigpharmd take note.
The creativity is better as a physician - more say in the patient care. More decision making. More career opportunities. Sitting behind a desk counting pills all day getting chewed out because the copay was higher this month is not my idea of a good job. Now, if i was really stupid and wanted to waste 70,000 dollars and a year (or two) of my life i would have pursued a pharmacy residency (snicker snicker). They teach you to do things like it is going to be like that when you get out, and then you end up still behind a counter, counting little blue pills, not seeing patients in clinic, oh... Sorry bigpharmd. Well, maybe things will have changed when you get out (*clearing of throat).

t r o l l

 

[janeno]

Whoa, whoa! look as though I have touched a couple of nerves - pumpkinsmasher and bigPharmD take note.
The creativity is better as a physician - more say in the patient care. More decision making. More career opportunities. Sitting behind a desk counting pills all day getting chewed out because the copay was higher this month is not my idea of a good job. Now, if I was really stupid and wanted to waste 70,000 dollars and a year (or two) of my life I would have pursued a pharmacy residency (snicker snicker). They teach you to do things like it is going to be like that when you get out, and then you end up still behind a counter, counting little blue pills, not seeing patients in clinic, oh... sorry bigPharmD. Well, maybe things will have changed when you get out (*clearing of throat).

I am really questioning if you are a med student. If you do not enjoy pharmacy career, it does not give you a reason to belittle other professionals in that field. Somehow I get a feeling that maybe you have never been a pharmacist because you really don't know what is pharmacy about.

It's a troll.

 

[Glycerin]

Whoa, whoa! look as though I have touched a couple of nerves - pumpkinsmasher and bigPharmD take note.
The creativity is better as a physician - more say in the patient care. More decision making. More career opportunities. Sitting behind a desk counting pills all day getting chewed out because the copay was higher this month is not my idea of a good job. Now, if I was really stupid and wanted to waste 70,000 dollars and a year (or two) of my life I would have pursued a pharmacy residency (snicker snicker). They teach you to do things like it is going to be like that when you get out, and then you end up still behind a counter, counting little blue pills, not seeing patients in clinic, oh... sorry bigPharmD. Well, maybe things will have changed when you get out (*clearing of throat).

And while you'll be slaving away through internship, residency and fellowship only to come out and pay off your debt at 50, some of us work from home and make hospital site visits throughout the country and decide what you can and can't prescribe..

 

[bigpharmD]

Whoa, whoa! look as though I have touched a couple of nerves - pumpkinsmasher and bigPharmD take note.
The creativity is better as a physician - more say in the patient care. More decision making. More career opportunities. Sitting behind a desk counting pills all day getting chewed out because the copay was higher this month is not my idea of a good job. Now, if I was really stupid and wanted to waste 70,000 dollars and a year (or two) of my life I would have pursued a pharmacy residency (snicker snicker). They teach you to do things like it is going to be like that when you get out, and then you end up still behind a counter, counting little blue pills, not seeing patients in clinic, oh... sorry bigPharmD. Well, maybe things will have changed when you get out (*clearing of throat).

I would argue the career opportunities are the same especially non-clinical. Yeah I really wanna see patients in clinic all day, have fun with that. Thats for you to do. And while your doing that I will be your boss some day.

 

[ItsOverZyvox]

I would argue the career opportunities are the same especially non-clinical. Yeah I really wanna see patients in clinic all day, have fun with that. Thats for you to do. And while your doing that I will be your boss some day.

yeah... but you'll first have to work me...

 

[bigpharmD]

yeah... but you'll first have to work me...

Thats fine as long as I am not in the clinic

 

[meister]

Can't we all be friends? I'm pretty sure not many pharmacists envy MDs, especially freshly minted ones. We'll be lowest on the totem poll my good man. If you really want to troll a forum go to allnurses.com. Plenty of MD wannabes there!

 

[Priapism321]

More decision making. More career opportunities. Sitting behind a desk counting pills all day getting chewed out because the copay was higher this month is not my idea of a good job.

They teach you to do things like it is going to be like that when you get out, and then you end up still behind a counter, counting little blue pills, not seeing patients in clinic, oh.

You are so right, what a dead end profession...But just for fun, let's play a game. Can you approximate for me the number of pills the following individuals are likely to have counted in their careers? Just a few examples of heights you will likely fail to ascend to, even if you went to medical school three times. Good luck!!:

William Evans, Pharm.D

http://www.cancer.gov/researchandfunding/MERIT/Evans (realizing you probably have no clue what a MERIT award is, but you can ask around in the medical crowds if you like; however, most of the physicians you ask will have NEVER been awarded one, let alone two)

http://stjude.org/stjude/v/index.js...nnel=f57213c016118010VgnVCM1000000e2015acRCRD (I mean, he just runs one of the most prestigious pediatric cancer hospitals in the world)

Brian Erstad, Pharm.D.

http://www.opa.medicine.arizona.edu/news/feb08/erstad.htm (just named BEDSIDE clinician of the year by the most well known critical care society in the nation)

William Figg, Pharm.D.

http://ccr.cancer.gov/staff/staff.asp?profileid=5728

Here is a list of his SELECTED publications: http://ccr.cancer.gov/staff/publications.asp?profileid=5728 (yep, 390 of them, you may catch him some day Doctor)

Milap Nahata, Pharm.D.

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/iomnahata.htm (recently elected to the Institute of Medicine, I think that is an important group. This guy must have tremendous spatula handling skills)

Hai Tran, Pharm.D.

http://www.mdanderson.org/departmen...ayfull&pn=462da41e-59ad-11d5-812100508b603a14

Mary Relling, Pharm.D

http://www.stjude.org/stjude/v/inde...nnel=7cc71436e3218010VgnVCM1000000e2015acRCRD

http://www.stjude.org/stjude/v/inde...nnel=11444cc6a671e110VgnVCM1000001e0215acRCRD (just a little article in JAMA last week, no big deal, for her, that is)

Gilbert Burkart, Pharm.D.

http://www.fda.gov/commissionersfellowships/burckart_bio.html

Jere Goyan, Ph.D.

http://today.ucsf.edu/stories/former-pharmacy-dean-and-head-of-fda-jere-goyan-has-died/ (Just the Commissioner of Food and Drugs, nothing special)

Jim Hayslett, Pharm.D.

http://www.cdc.gov/EIS/about/hayslett.htm (they sent a Pharmacist to investigate the anthrax scare? The CDC must have thought his experience with tablet dust was critical to the case)

I think this post sufficiently defeats the premise of your post, but lucky for me, I can go for days. I have done this exercise several times (posting links such as the ones above), largely because it usually places the peanut gallery (who really have not a clue what they are spouting off about) in a rather indefensible position. This one took awhile, I think I will save it.......because I think the troll was already placed in his place by the Z. Damn it.

I guess I will just stick with my lowly Pharm.D. for the time being.....

 

[Ross434]

You are so right, what a dead end profession...But just for fun, let's play a game. Can you approximate for me the number of pills the following individuals are likely to have counted in their careers? Just a few examples of heights you will likely fail to ascend to, even if you went to medical school three times. Good luck!!:

William Evans, Pharm.D

http://www.cancer.gov/researchandfunding/MERIT/Evans (realizing you probably have no clue what a MERIT award is, but you can ask around in the medical crowds if you like, but most of the physicians you ask will have NEVER been awarded one, let alone two)

http://stjude.org/stjude/v/index.js...nnel=f57213c016118010VgnVCM1000000e2015acRCRD (I mean, he just runs one of the most prestigious pediatric cancer hospitals in the world)

Brian Erstad, Pharm.D.

http://www.opa.medicine.arizona.edu/news/feb08/erstad.htm (just named BEDSIDE clinician of the year by the most well known critical care society in the nation)

William Figg, Pharm.D.

http://ccr.cancer.gov/staff/staff.asp?profileid=5728

Here is a list of his SELECTED publications: http://ccr.cancer.gov/staff/publications.asp?profileid=5728 (yep, 390 of them, you may catch him some day Doctor)

Milap Nahata, Pharm.D.

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/iomnahata.htm (recently elected to the Institute of Medicine, I think that is an important group. This guy must have tremendous spatula handling skills)

Hai Tran, Pharm.D.

http://www.mdanderson.org/departmen...ayfull&pn=462da41e-59ad-11d5-812100508b603a14

Mary Relling, Pharm.D

http://www.stjude.org/stjude/v/inde...nnel=7cc71436e3218010VgnVCM1000000e2015acRCRD

http://www.stjude.org/stjude/v/inde...nnel=11444cc6a671e110VgnVCM1000001e0215acRCRD (just a little article in JAMA last week, no big deal, for her, that is)

Gilbert Burkart, Pharm.D.

http://www.fda.gov/commissionersfellowships/burckart_bio.html

Jere Goyan, Ph.D.

http://today.ucsf.edu/stories/former-pharmacy-dean-and-head-of-fda-jere-goyan-has-died/ (Just the Commissioner of Food and Drugs, nothing special)

Jim Hayslett, Pharm.D.

http://www.cdc.gov/EIS/about/hayslett.htm (they sent a Pharmacist to investigate the anthrax scare? The CDC must have thought his experience with tablet dust was critical to the case)

I think this post sufficiently defeats the premise of your post, but lucky for me, I can go for days. I have done this exercise several times (posting links such as the ones above), largely because it usually places the peanut gallery (who really have not a clue what they are spouting off about) in a rather indefensible position. This one took awhile, I think I will save it.......because I think the troll was already placed in his place by the Z. Damn it.

I guess I will just stick with my lowly Pharm.D. for the time being.....

nice

 

[meister]

Wow a bit defensive are we? It's almost as if you had the post on-the-ready!

 

[bigpharmD]

You are so right, what a dead end profession...But just for fun, let's play a game. Can you approximate for me the number of pills the following individuals are likely to have counted in their careers? Just a few examples of heights you will likely fail to ascend to, even if you went to medical school three times. Good luck!!:

William Evans, Pharm.D

http://www.cancer.gov/researchandfunding/MERIT/Evans (realizing you probably have no clue what a MERIT award is, but you can ask around in the medical crowds if you like; however, most of the physicians you ask will have NEVER been awarded one, let alone two)

http://stjude.org/stjude/v/index.js...nnel=f57213c016118010VgnVCM1000000e2015acRCRD (I mean, he just runs one of the most prestigious pediatric cancer hospitals in the world)

Brian Erstad, Pharm.D.

http://www.opa.medicine.arizona.edu/news/feb08/erstad.htm (just named BEDSIDE clinician of the year by the most well known critical care society in the nation)

William Figg, Pharm.D.

http://ccr.cancer.gov/staff/staff.asp?profileid=5728

Here is a list of his SELECTED publications: http://ccr.cancer.gov/staff/publications.asp?profileid=5728 (yep, 390 of them, you may catch him some day Doctor)

Milap Nahata, Pharm.D.

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/iomnahata.htm (recently elected to the Institute of Medicine, I think that is an important group. This guy must have tremendous spatula handling skills)

Hai Tran, Pharm.D.

http://www.mdanderson.org/departmen...ayfull&pn=462da41e-59ad-11d5-812100508b603a14

Mary Relling, Pharm.D

http://www.stjude.org/stjude/v/inde...nnel=7cc71436e3218010VgnVCM1000000e2015acRCRD

http://www.stjude.org/stjude/v/inde...nnel=11444cc6a671e110VgnVCM1000001e0215acRCRD (just a little article in JAMA last week, no big deal, for her, that is)

Gilbert Burkart, Pharm.D.

http://www.fda.gov/commissionersfellowships/burckart_bio.html

Jere Goyan, Ph.D.

http://today.ucsf.edu/stories/former-pharmacy-dean-and-head-of-fda-jere-goyan-has-died/ (Just the Commissioner of Food and Drugs, nothing special)

Jim Hayslett, Pharm.D.

http://www.cdc.gov/EIS/about/hayslett.htm (they sent a Pharmacist to investigate the anthrax scare? The CDC must have thought his experience with tablet dust was critical to the case)

I think this post sufficiently defeats the premise of your post, but lucky for me, I can go for days. I have done this exercise several times (posting links such as the ones above), largely because it usually places the peanut gallery (who really have not a clue what they are spouting off about) in a rather indefensible position. This one took awhile, I think I will save it.......because I think the troll was already placed in his place by the Z. Damn it.

I guess I will just stick with my lowly Pharm.D. for the time being.....

TAKE NOTE!!!!!!!!

 

[Priapism321]

Wow a bit defensive are we? It's almost as if you had the post on-the-ready!

Defensive, yes. However, it annoys me to no end when ignorant individuals attempt to inappropriately characterize my profession. Should I have to defend it so vehemently? Probably not, and I absolutely don't when I happen to be interacting with people who have half a clue. Nonetheless, I think it is important to temper some of the gross inaccuracies for students who use these forums as a research medium.

So, from this point on, when I have to enlighten the peanut gallery on what pharmacists do besides wield the spatula (not that there is anything wrong with that), I will title the post "Pharmacy Spotlight," so everyone can anticipate what is to ensue.

 

[ItsOverZyvox]

heh..I know Milap Nahata...he's a nice guy... hard core and passionate about what he does..

 

[Priapism321]

heh..I know Milap Nahata...he's a nice guy... hard core and passionate about what he does..

That is interesting, though not at all surprising. I do not know him, but he is a highly impressive dude from afar.

 

[ItsOverZyvox]

That is interesting, though not at all surprising. I do not know him, but he is an highly impressive dude from afar.

Milap is fired up. He had published a bunch of stuff on pedi compounding. So when I was an intern at children's, I called him up to ask questions. He sent me requested info. Later on, I met him at ASHP. Nice guy!

 

[Priapism321]

Milap is fired up. He had published a bunch of stuff on pedi compounding. So when I was an intern at children's, I called him up to ask questions. He sent me requested info. Later on, I met him at ASHP. Nice guy!

Intern at Children's.........hmmmmm. Anyhow, haven't had a chance to read the new Candida guidelines, any initial thoughts? I heard they were going to sufficiently define who deserves an empiric echinocandin, but once again, haven't verified.

 

[ItsOverZyvox]

Intern at Children's.........hmmmmm. Anyhow, haven't had a chance to read the new Candida guidelines, any initial thoughts? I heard they were going to sufficiently define who deserves an empiric echinocandin, but once again, haven't verified.

read it...summarized it.... published it.... we're on top of it dude...

 

[SpirivaSunrise]

Is faster ID technology (i.e. with PNA FISH) considered/mentioned in the new guidelines? Or is this not widely used enough yet?

I'm assuming you can make a pretty big dent by going with fluconazole (if you can be certain real early on) that you've got albicans on your hands....

 

[ItsOverZyvox]

Is faster ID technology (i.e. with PNA FISH) considered/mentioned in the new guidelines? Or is this not widely used enough yet?

The next big thing is PCR....

 

[SpirivaSunrise]

The next big thing is PCR....

Enough to affect their current empiric recommendations though?

 

[SpirivaSunrise]

Enough to affect their current empiric recommendations though?

Found the answer to my question...

Treatment Guidelines for Candidiasis - CID 2009:48 (1 March)​

Early diagnosis of invasive candidiasis remains a challenge; thus, clinical prediction rules have been developed to identify patients in the ICU who are at high risk of candidiasis [100–102]. Characterized by high specificity but a low sensitivity, these rules allow the identification of only a small proportion of ICU patients who will develop candidiasis. Newer serological diagnostic tests have become available to assist in the assessment of patients with suspected candidiasis. Combined measurement of mannan and anti-mannan antibodies has yielded encouraging results and is worthy of additional evaluation [103]. Detection of b-D-glucan has shown good overall performance characteristics, with a sensitivity of 80%–90% in patients with candidemia [104, 105], confirming previous results obtained in patients with hematological malignancies [106]. Real-time PCR is a nonvalidated but intriguing methodology that holds promise as an early diagnostic aid for candidemia [107]. These encouraging data offer new perspectives for early diagnosis of Candida infections, but continued evolution of these assays will be required before they can be used routinely.​

 

[Sparda29]

I don't mind the MD/DO people unless they really try to get in my face, but I HATE nurses with a passion.

 

[meister]

Why do you hate nurses?

 

[njac]

good nurses are your best allies.

bad nurses, well, aren't. The good outweigh the bad but we rarely hear about those.

 

[Praziquantel86]

I don't mind the MD/DO people unless they really try to get in my face, but I HATE nurses with a passion.

Why do you hate nurses? Have you ever even worked in a hospital setting, or are you stereotyping an entire profession based on the few that you have spoken to at a physician's office?

 

[chate]

SD's pharmacy program is combined with med school so in effect all our graduates have done 50% of med school (side by side, in the same classroom, no rotations tho) by the time they graduate.
So for us, pharmacy school is just as hard as med school insult to injury is, if we want an MD/PharmD we dont get credit for the classes we already took haha

 

[anderac]

I didn't realize when I posted here that this was primarily a pharmacy forum. I was just looking on the web for other people who were pharmacists who went back to med school. Of course - looking at the title - I now see this thread was started in the PharmD forum....
Best of luck to all of you in school. I am happy I decided to go back to school - I really like medical school. Pharmacy school is great, I still have my license and practice occasionally.
Don't bother posting a bunch of the accomplishments of pharmacists/pharmacy. It just looks like you have something to prove. Pharmacy is a fine profession, you don't need to prove anything. Oh, and that sucks for you guys who take classes and if you decide to go back you don't get credit for them. Do you mean you take Gross Anatomy, histology, and genetics with the med students? I can see where biochemistry and physiology might overlap....

 

[meister]

Forcing pharm students to take histology is just cruel.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

Forcing pharm students to take histology is just cruel.

Seriously.... but we were all exposed to some part although nowhere in detail or depth as you guys. I aimed for a D in that class. No point in trying.

 

[samisab786]

C'mon you guys, can we really stop fighting about our career pathways? Most of us are already in medical/pharmacy school and getting into arguments like this is not only immature, but very unprofessional and opposite of what occupational role we are trying to take in society. Doesn't matter who started it, but as Seattlespy mentioned, this topic wasn't created to inflame anybody, so let's just keep our cool.

Pharmacy is an important career because nobody expects a physician to do it all. Seriously, if the pharmacist and nurse's role was taken by a physician in addition to the role they already have, we could expect a rise in avoidable deaths. The bottom line is, physicians are only human NOT GOD. They can't juggle their own lives with a multitude of role strains. This is a reason why nurses, pharmacists, physical therapists, dentists, nutritionists, and PAs exist. This isn't a contest of which career is better or not...man, we each have a different role satisfying the same purpose: getting patients back on track again. Doesn't matter if you entered the career for financial security or what, you KNOW that your focus has to be on making the patient better and in order for the best results to come, we have to get cracking on some heirarchy-free teamwork. We need to work WITH EACH OTHER, not against eachother. Enough of this bickering man! Imagine going to an artist and telling him/her you're better becase you're a business executive and a Harvard gradate. Really? Better? How do you measure BETTER? The artist can probably beat the guy with his artistic ability any day, but the other guy can probably be better off starting a business. Hence, pharmacists are experts in treatment and drug-theraphy; physicians are experts in diagnosis.

Somewhere along that definition, people realize in the middle of their schooling that one career satisfies their needs better than the other. I'm a freshman pre-pharmacy student who still keeps medicine as a possible option. So what? That doesn't make pharmacy better than medicine or medicine better than pharmacy. What it DOES do is help us develop the role we want in this entire scope of health care.

Yeee, homie.

 

[WhiteSnows]

I think each one of us told the truth, but only relative truth. That means it is true to you, but apparently not for others. So, I guess you are just wasting of time to prove that you are right.

 

[meister]

Most of us are already in medical/pharmacy school and getting into arguments like this is not only immature, but very unprofessional and opposite of what occupational role we are trying to take in society.

But...not you...?

Your simplifying MD=Dx PharmD=Rx experts is way too dumbed down and not really that accurate, just FYI. Although you're right that MDs can't do it all, I think most people for some reason think pharmacists are wannabe MDs when that's only the case for a very small minority. The rest is pre-med/pre-pharm hand-waving bull****.

Once people start their training and get pounded away in the hospital six days a week for a few years they forget these stupid turf battles and just want everyone who's a part of the team to contribute the most they can.*


*except for NPs since for some reason they keep wanting to push and push for expanded scope and also I hate them

 

[PumpkinSmasher]

But...not you...?

Your simplifying MD=Dx PharmD=Rx experts is way too dumbed down and not really that accurate, just FYI. Although you're right that MDs can't do it all, I think most people for some reason think pharmacists are wannabe MDs when that's only the case for a very small minority. The rest is pre-med/pre-pharm hand-waving bull****.

Once people start their training and get pounded away in the hospital six days a week for a few years they forget these stupid turf battles and just want everyone who's a part of the team to contribute the most they can.*


*except for NPs since for some reason they keep wanting to push and push for expanded scope and also I hate them

I was talking to a friend of mine in nursing school and it sounds like he is going to go right into the NP program after nursing school, when he graduates he will have prescriptive authority. It seems crazy, he will barely have any clinical or real life experience at all when he graduates and he will be prescribing/diagnosing. Hopefully he doesn't kill anybody.

 

[meister]

I was talking to a friend of mine in nursing school and it sounds like he is going to go right into the NP program after nursing school, when he graduates he will have prescriptive authority. It seems crazy, he will barely have any clinical or real life experience at all when he graduates and he will be prescribing/diagnosing. Hopefully he doesn't kill anybody.

Fortunately at this point I don't think he'll be given enough authority to have that power, but it won't take long for the NPs to convince stupid state legislators that the absence of many deaths from NP Rx'ing means there haven't been any. This is all one big giant experiment.

Ugh.

 

[PharmDstudent]

1.) I did one of those online calculator thingie magies to find out if it was economically feasible to go to med. school after finishing pharmacy school, because I enjoy pathology quite a bit, and the results from the calculation said that it would be a significant monetary loss, hands down. So, I scratched that idea about 9 months ago. (FYI: I estimated that I would make $350k/year as a physician, work part-time as a pharmacist while in school, and it would take an additional 9 years of school + loans to get there.)

2.) I have to agree with meister.
I saw an NP last fall around the Thanksgiving holidays for flu-like symptoms + a swollen lymph node, and he was a total jerk. He didn't stop acting like a jerk until I said that I was in pharmacy school and that I had all A's after trying to justify that I wasn't experiencing depression.
I had told him a few times that my retired physician friend believed that a single swollen lymph node was indicative of bacterial infection, and not strep throat or the flu, and he didn't listen until he felt the lump for himself.
To cut to the chase, he wrote for Levaquin 750 x 7 days, and I kid you not, my symptoms dramatically improved halfway into the 2nd dose.
The outcome of my visit was fine, i.e. the infection was cleared, but he was the worst practitioner I have ever seen, and to this day, the clinic has never given me my blood cultures (to top it all off).

I have seen a couple of good NPs, but I will never see one again after the way that he treated me and practically made me beg for empiric treatment.

ETA: I believe that I had a kidney infection, because I had all of the symptoms that are in bold from the Mayo Clinic's website (plus a slight UTI after he finally did a urinalysis).

Kidney infection may cause one or more of these signs and symptoms:

• Frequent urination
• Strong, persistent urge to urinate
• Burning sensation or pain when urinating
• Abdominal pain or pressure
• Cloudy urine with a strong odor
• Pus or blood in your urine (hematuria)
• Inability to urinate (urine retention)
• Need to urinate during the night (nocturia)
• Back, side (flank) or groin pain
• Fever

Severe kidney infection also may involve:

• High fever - body temperature of 101 F (38.3 C) or greater
• Shaking chills
• Night sweats
• Extreme fatigue
• Nausea or vomiting
• Confusion

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/kidney-infection/DS00593/DSECTION=symptoms

 

[meister]

You had confusion? And back/side pain? And a UTI? And he didn't give you the blood cultures afterward?!(illegal btw)

That is terrible...

 

[PharmDstudent]

You had confusion? And back/side pain? And a UTI? And he didn't give you the blood cultures afterward?!(illegal btw)

That is terrible...

Yeah. He kept thinking that I was depressed about something, because I was hysterical and acting crazy. I could hardly walk, and if I did walk, it was at a snail's pace.
His excuse for being a lousy practitioner was that he didn't have my complete history, like my PCP would have.

It's too bad that we didn't study ID in Therapeutics until this semester. It was kind of crazy... I was sitting in class about a month ago thinking that what I had had was a bad kidney infection- it was an epiphany, if you will.

 

[bigpharmD]

But...not you...?

Your simplifying MD=Dx PharmD=Rx experts is way too dumbed down and not really that accurate, just FYI. Although you're right that MDs can't do it all, I think most people for some reason think pharmacists are wannabe MDs when that's only the case for a very small minority. The rest is pre-med/pre-pharm hand-waving bull****.

Once people start their training and get pounded away in the hospital six days a week for a few years they forget these stupid turf battles and just want everyone who's a part of the team to contribute the most they can.*


*except for NPs since for some reason they keep wanting to push and push for expanded scope and also I hate them

I posted this in another forum earlier but it fits in here as well.....i know a couple of people in pharmacy class who flunked out, then went to nursing school and are now NPs. They say nursing school was a joke compared to pharm school and now go around prescribing the wrong stuff all day. This blows my mind. I would love to see the average GPA of nursing students vs. Med students (and SATs for that matter).

Also, about the md=diagnose and pharmd=drug expert...this is stupid. Most MDs know way more about the drugs in their specialty. The problem is that patients are on 10 or more drugs and some of these they are not familiar with. Also, they forget to DC things, forget to restart things, dont know the appropriate dosing. My responsibility is to look for these things and throw out suggestions if I feel it is necessary.

 

[drgdealer]

Pharm.D., M.D. should be the new program. Let’s see…. BS in pharmacy…Pharm.D. and general pharmacy practice residency and 5 years running 2 clinics for the Gov. where I had prescribing privileges and now I find myself ringing on a register most of the day…...”no mam that’s not the toilet paper on sale” Pharmacy is not a profession it’s a job. I’m currently applying to medical school it’s the next step for me….interview next week…..and no I didn’t take the MCATS……could someone please explain how understanding the angle of velocity will help you understand anatomy and physiology? I have mastered the pharmacology and understand the pharmacodynamic and pharmacokinetic qualities of drugs. I have given pharmacology lectures to med students and physicians and I couldn’t stress enough…….its one thing to correctly diagnose a patient but if you don’t know your drugs you have done half the job. . I taught them pharmacology like I was taught in Pharmacy school……not out of lippincot with stick figures. You would be surprised how a little med chem can help you understand a class of drugs and help you choose the right agent for what ails your patient. Do you understand how your patients disease state affects the drugs you prescribe? Do they teach that in med school?
I would be taking a significant pay cut but it’s not about the money. I make a-lot more than a GP. It’s about the true passion one has for medicine and a genuine compassion for your patients. A degree in pharmacy and an MD is the perfect marriage. An applicant with these credentials is a fierce competitor to a 22 year old with decent MCAT scores. I really only have to learn how to diagnose the rest is taken care of. If you have a pharm.D. and thinking about med school go for it.

 

[meister]

Right you're interviewing next week for medical school without taking the MCAT.

I'm guessing that means you're going to be interviewing at a school in...Dubai? Europe? Africa? Definitely not in the United States, Canada or the Caribbean.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you are no doubt a liar.