Would you get booted out of med school for using marijuana?

[Xenoblade]

I have an oncologist-colleague with whom I often eat lunch. He makes a point of not eating garlic on days he has afternoon clinic. It is a personal choice, not a employer's rule, but I think that being considerate of others with whom you are in close proximity is most thoughtful.

Now to get on track, what would we do with a medical student who comes onto the wards stinking of weed?

You pull up a chair and join?*

*If you are Colorado

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[touchpause13]

I have an oncologist-colleague with whom I often eat lunch. He makes a point of not eating garlic on days he has afternoon clinic. It is a personal choice, not a employer's rule, but I think that being considerate of others with whom you are in close proximity is most thoughtful.

Now to get on track, what would we do with a medical student who comes onto the wards stinking of weed?

Being considerate is key.

And I don't know, the smell of weed doesn't bother me! Hahaha
Seriously though, smelling like weed is clearly unprofessional and a no no.

 

[Optimus-Prime]

You guys should look up William Stewart Halsted.

I wonder how prevalent cocaine actually is in the medical field

 

[Mad Jack]

As with any ambiguous policy, you should really just ask your Dean for clarification. I'm sure they'd be happy to help.

 

[BlueCircle]

Why would they? They can't prove you've never vacationed to someplace it's legal and smoked there.

Side note: I know a premed in college who's one of the heaviest stoners I've met, doodles in half his classes, skips the other half, has only ever received one A- (differential eqs), researches, 31 MCAT - not super impressive but annoys me how I have to work my butt off to get half the grades he gets

Lol do you feel users of MJ are not capable/deserving of a lower grade?

 

[Avicenna]

Lol do you feel users of MJ are not capable/deserving of a lower grade?

No, I feel students who display no effort are deserving of a lower grade.
Someone's gonna fail VR

 

[geretts]

Thanks for all the information on policy regarding tobacco use. Would you get kicked out if you tested positive for marijuana during the pre-clinical years? Could I ask the adcoms to chime in on this? @Goro and @LizzyM

 

[touchpause13]

No, I feel students who display no effort are deserving of a lower grade.
Someone's gonna fail VR

Just because they display no effort in your eyes doesn't mean shet unless you watch what they are doing every hour of every day. I lived with a lot of people in college who put on a front like they partied all the time and didn't study, but worked their butts off behind closed doors.

Clearly this person is pulling good grades. Maybe they are putting in less effort than most. Maybe they are just naturally really smart. Sounds like you are jealous.

 

[Reckoner]

You guys should look up William Stewart Halsted.

It's amazing to me just how "high functioning" some addicts can be. The guy was using 200 mg doses of morphine just to come down from the cocaine...

 

[corndogger]

Thanks for all the information on policy regarding tobacco use. Would you get kicked out if you tested positive for marijuana during the pre-clinical years? Could I ask the adcoms to chime in on this? @Goro and @LizzyM

I believe some people said this earlier in the thread, but it probably varies by school whether they even test and what the consequences are if you test positive. Getting kicked out seems pretty extreme for marijuana.

I know a few med students who are pretty big stoners though. I personally don't see anything wrong with it if you are only using it on days off, vacation, etc. Tbh the whole idea of drug testing seems pretty invasive, especially for things like marijuana and nicotine that can be used and have zero impact on your performance/competence.

 

[WillburCobb]

It's amazing to me just how "high functioning" some addicts can be. The guy was using 200 mg doses of morphine just to come down from the cocaine...

You'd be surprised. A guy came into the ER where I work about 2 weeks ago, and in the middle of the day his bac was .625. His gait was a little off, but overall pretty good, his speech was only slightly slurred, and he was completely alert and oriented. A few months ago I was on my state's medical examiner site and came across a surgeon (orhto IIRC) who was pulled from the OR during his 3rd operation for the day for smelling like alcohol and acting somewhat odd. The procedures were all back to back and there was no real opportunity for him to drink between cases. His bac was ~.4 over 3 hours since his last drink - dude has mad skill.

 

[Mr Roboto]

This isn't skill, it's a result of long-term alcohol abuse. If he operated sober his hands would probably be trembling from onset of DTs.

A few months ago I was on my state's medical examiner site and came across a surgeon (orhto IIRC) who was pulled from the OR during his 3rd operation for the day for smelling like alcohol and acting somewhat odd. The procedures were all back to back and there was no real opportunity for him to drink between cases. His bac was ~.4 over 3 hours since his last drink - dude has mad skill.

 

[WillburCobb]

This isn't skill, it's a result of long-term alcohol abuse. If he operated sober his hands would probably be trembling from onset of DTs.

I'm very aware of this. I was being sarcastic.

 

[bakedbeans18]

what about overweight physicians or physicians who eat at mcdonalds or eat junk food? same deal w/ that stuff if you want to make blanket statements. lol if we're going down that route let's leave no stone unturned.

I don't think this argument is valid. While eating a Big Mac for lunch every once in a while is okay, even if you are having 7 Big Macs a week, it is just a healthy behaviour (see: eating) that has gotten out of control, whereas smoking is an unhealthy behavior no matter how little you engage in it.

The same goes for an overweight physician who may be so from overeating - it is the result of an ordinary behavior (eating) that has gotten out of control. I'm not saying it is any less unhealthy, I'm just saying that the origins of these deleterious consequences on health are more villified in smoking cigarretes than people who eat way too much.

 

[bakedbeans18]

I believe some people said this earlier in the thread, but it probably varies by school whether they even test and what the consequences are if you test positive. Getting kicked out seems pretty extreme for marijuana.

I know a few med students who are pretty big stoners though. I personally don't see anything wrong with it if you are only using it on days off, vacation, etc. Tbh the whole idea of drug testing seems pretty invasive, especially for things like marijuana and nicotine that can be used and have zero impact on your performance/competence.

Marijuana use is associated with cognitive decline.
Even if only using on your days off, the cumulative effects ae detrimental. If you sell shirts at Abercrombie, noone cares. If you're in charge with replacing my daughters kidney or managing the end of life care of someone close to me, I want you to be sharp minded.

 

[ruedjgtc]

Marijuana use is associated with cognitive decline.
Even if only using on your days off, the cumulative effects ae detrimental. If you sell shirts at Abercrombie, noone cares. If you're in charge with replacing my daughters kidney or managing the end of life care of someone close to me, I want you to be sharp minded.

Please post citation that doesn't include adolescent cognitive decline (because it's obvious we shouldn't mess with neuro-transmission for people with still developing brains proved by alcohol studies). Not accepting studies that followed adolescents into adulthood either, because that doesn't discount for why they were using marijuana at age 13 in the first place.

For the OP:
My opinion, politics aside, I think it all falls on your personal beliefs. If you're accepting of alcohol, then it's likely you don't mind your doctor drinking off the clock and the same would probably go for marijuana -- however, if you are against the drugs or possibly ignorant of it's actual effects then it's easy to assume it's pretty much the equivalent of snorting coke off a stripper's stomach.

School and work policy wise, it's obvious, just follow whatever policy that's in effect --so, checking school policy or asking students there directly would probably lead you an answer with less "opinions" inserted. Loma Linda had a no smoking cigarettes or alcohol in your free time rule for medical students, so I didn't apply there as it's not a good fit because while I don't smoke cigarettes, I'm not giving up my beer and wine. I asked a M2 there directly how she felt about it, and dealt with it. I wasn't comfortable with the "drink in secret" strategy, nor giving up a glass of wine, so it wasn't the program for me. If anything, schools should be more concerned with the abuse of prescription drugs like Adderall, I personally find that a lot more outrageous than any of this marijuana nonsense in this thread.

 

[touchpause13]

Marijuana use is associated with cognitive decline.
Even if only using on your days off, the cumulative effects ae detrimental. If you sell shirts at Abercrombie, noone cares. If you're in charge with replacing my daughters kidney or managing the end of life care of someone close to me, I want you to be sharp minded.

I'm not buying it. Source?

 

[LizzyM]

Thanks for all the information on policy regarding tobacco use. Would you get kicked out if you tested positive for marijuana during the pre-clinical years? Could I ask the adcoms to chime in on this? @Goro and @LizzyM

In the event that you were tested, I suspect that the school, in an attempt to keep graduation rates as high as possible (no pun intended), would refer you to a clinician who specializes in substance abuse and attending sessions with the clinician would be required in order to stay in school. If you can't kick the habit after that, then maybe you don't belong in medical school and you might be shown the door.

 

[mimelim]

The outward explanation for no tobacco for any employees is that it is for the patients. However, a very large side benefit is the health insurance cost drop. When insuring us, the vast vast majority are non-smokers which is clearly easier and cheaper to insure. Plus, less missed work days for all of the nasty health consequences of smoking.

 

[Xenoblade]

You'd be surprised. A guy came into the ER where I work about 2 weeks ago, and in the middle of the day his bac was .625. His gait was a little off, but overall pretty good, his speech was only slightly slurred, and he was completely alert and oriented. A few months ago I was on my state's medical examiner site and came across a surgeon (orhto IIRC) who was pulled from the OR during his 3rd operation for the day for smelling like alcohol and acting somewhat odd. The procedures were all back to back and there was no real opportunity for him to drink between cases. His bac was ~.4 over 3 hours since his last drink - dude has mad skill.

Are you saying that I can party and do ortho surgeries at the same time? Sounds like the right specialty for me!

 

[Xenoblade]

If we test positive for tobacco (buccal swab) we are gone. Residency, but same difference.

I seriously thought only one religious medical school (who shall remain nameless) did this. I guess they don't seem so crazy after all when others are doing it too.

 

[WillburCobb]

Are you saying that I can party and do ortho surgeries at the same time? Sounds like the right specialty for me!

Optho and Rad are also options. I came across a similar case with an opthamologist who got a DUI while on call, posted bail, and was then called in for an emergency procedure about an hour later. He was re-arrested after the procedure with a bac ~.25. The rad case was a repeat offender who refused testing everytime.

 

[QuinnTheEskimo]

I wonder how prevalent cocaine actually is in the medical field

There is one school (top 20) which has a reputation for lots of drug use. Based on the the people I know who go/have gone there, drug testing is clearly not on their priority list.

 

[Reckoner]

There is one school (top 20) which has a reputation for lots of drug use. Based on the the people I know who go/have gone there, drug testing is clearly not on their priority list.

Yale?

 

[WillburCobb]

I seriously thought only one religious medical school (who shall remain nameless) did this. I guess they don't seem so crazy after all when others are doing it too.

Oh, but they are crazy. They're ignoring the research.

 

[Served]

Oh come on. Is this really a question?

 

[Goro]

I concur with my learned colleague. It's often harder to get out of medical school than to get in; meaning, once we have you, we do everything we can to make sure you finish. I suspect that a 1x offence would get a repirmand, but 2x would mean a suspention or even dismissal. We low a low tolerance for those who don't learn their lessons.

In the event that you were tested, I suspect that the school, in an attempt to keep graduation rates as high as possible (no pun intended), would refer you to a clinician who specializes in substance abuse and attending sessions with the clinician would be required in order to stay in school. If you can't kick the habit after that, then maybe you don't belong in medical school and you might be shown the door.

 

[BlueCircle]

No, I feel students who display no effort are deserving of a lower grade.
Someone's gonna fail VR

Lol this makes no sense. If he/she is already performing well without needing to put in as much study time as you, why invest more time? I agree with the previous poster. You come off as bitter.