Think twice about being a dentist!! Read this!

Started by straightsmile4u
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This is a good thread! 👍 For a second I thought it was going to be one of those kinds of threads where everyone throws around insults and stuff.

Anyways, nobody said that dentistry was going to be easy. However, I feel it all comes down to time management. There are about 10+ dentists in my family and somehow they all find a way to juggle work, family, friends, hobbies, etc. Being a dentist is very challenging, but it shouldn't stop you from being one.
 
yappy said:
This whole thread bring up an important question...

If you're a male professional; what is the value in getting married to a female professional?

My view is that if you're a male professional your wife will see your established career, and decent income, as an opportunity to "escape" like the OP. Therefore, I think it's most wise for a male professional to date younger-non-professional women who can make a peaceful home, focus on her appearance, and be all around soothing to our tired self. 👍
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I think having a fellow professional as an SO gives one a myriad of options. They have somebody who understands their troubles, someone who (especially in dentistry) can run the business with you, and having someone who shares your goals is overall easier to communicate with.
 
Silent Cool said:
Your "warning" and blog are some of the dumbest things I have ever heard or read. Have you ever had a real job? (No, sorry--orthodontist is not a real job). If there were one career ON THE PLANET that would easily allow you to "have it all" (ie, be a mom and have a career, work part-time, control your hours, whatever), it is ORTHODONTIST. Seriously. Get a real job during your "leave." You will count your lucky stars when you realize how good you have it relative to 98% of people out there (many of whom are mothers working full-time) who are working 50+ hours per week to make 50K.

Your post and blog are the most asinine thing I have ever read. You are clueless about reality. And by the way--200K in loans total to be an orthodontist (the value quoted on your website) would be a a great deal.

I would recommend not writing anymore, lest you desire to show your embarassingly naive and sheltered view of reality.
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Agreed.
 
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experiment626 said:
This is a good thread! 👍 For a second I thought it was going to be one of those kinds of threads where everyone throws around insults and stuff.

Anyways, nobody said that dentistry was going to be easy. However, I feel it all comes down to time management. There are about 10+ dentists in my family and somehow they all find a way to juggle work, family, friends, hobbies, etc. Being a dentist is very challenging, but it shouldn't stop you from being one.
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This isn't pre-allo. :laugh:

That's funny that you have that many family members in the business. My family's like that with teachers. I'd be the first one going for a professional degree (I can't say graduate; my aunt got a Masters in math but she's now trying to run from her third grade teaching job to be a baker), so it's really crazy. |D
 
Eh... Kids are hit-or-miss for me.

Sometimes, I think I'd really like to be able to have that sort of hunky-dory thing.

And other times, I think I'd rather impale myself with a rusty railroad spike.

It'd really depend on my SO. Like, if he wanted them, and if we could keep ourselves afloat, I wouldn't mind it.
 
yappy said:
This whole thread bring up an important question...

If you're a male professional; what is the value in getting married to a female professional?

My view is that if you're a male professional your wife will see your established career, and decent income, as an opportunity to "escape" like the OP. Therefore, I think it's most wise for a male professional to date younger-non-professional women who can make a peaceful home, focus on her appearance, and be all around soothing to our tired self. 👍
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i like where this is going

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yappy said:
This whole thread bring up an important question...

If you're a male professional; what is the value in getting married to a female professional?

My view is that if you're a male professional your wife will see your established career, and decent income, as an opportunity to "escape" like the OP. Therefore, I think it's most wise for a male professional to date younger-non-professional women who can make a peaceful home, focus on her appearance, and be all around soothing to our tired self. 👍
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Mm. Soothing sammiches when famished are nice..
 
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Female undergrad here:

I think dentistry is the perfect "medical" field for females. Let's face it--no matter how far women have come, parenting, maintaining a household, etc. still remain largely a woman's responsibility. Dentistry allows for a perfect balance of all that is important in my life--career, kids, family. Of course I'll have debt! I plan to live well within my means and pay it down as quickly as possible. I'll do whatever it takes (including practicing in a chain) to achieve such balance. That's not to say that's my plan forever, but it might be that way to start. Kids are a long way off.

I too, will not be going this alone. My BF (eventual husband) is studying computer and electrical engineering at Carnegie Mellon. He will no doubt be very successful.

The GP I've shadowed (a male--recently retired) told me he had 2 rules: never miss lunch, and always leave the office by 4. Not too many others in the medical field can say that. He worked 4 days a week and volunteered his dental services on the 5th day. He loved everything about his job and was a great teacher.
 
wcombs said:
I can't wait to not have kids 😀
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Conflagration said:
Eh... Kids are hit-or-miss for me.

Sometimes, I think I'd really like to be able to have that sort of hunky-dory thing.

And other times, I think I'd rather impale myself with a rusty railroad spike.

It'd really depend on my SO. Like, if he wanted them, and if we could keep ourselves afloat, I wouldn't mind it.
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I probably won't be having any kids until my early or mid 30's. After dental school, I want to live the young and adventurous life I've been missing out on from all the hard studying. Now that I think about it, I haven't really been living life to it's fullest. Hopefully I'll have some spare money after DS to do some of the stuff in this video. Once the kids pop out, that's it.

[YOUTUBE]faHPucqig2U[/YOUTUBE]
 
Conflagration said:
This isn't pre-allo. :laugh:

That's funny that you have that many family members in the business. My family's like that with teachers. I'd be the first one going for a professional degree (I can't say graduate; my aunt got a Masters in math but she's now trying to run from her third grade teaching job to be a baker), so it's really crazy. |D
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That's pretty cool. Maybe it runs in the genes? 😀 Glad you're coming to dentistry though. You'll love it!
 
yappy said:
This whole thread bring up an important question...

If you're a male professional; what is the value in getting married to a female professional?

My view is that if you're a male professional your wife will see your established career, and decent income, as an opportunity to "escape" like the OP. Therefore, I think it's most wise for a male professional to date younger-non-professional women who can make a peaceful home, focus on her appearance, and be all around soothing to our tired self. 👍
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haha. I thought about that, but then I realized that I didn't want a wife who stays home..too much free time for shopping..kidding. I grew up in a family where both of my parents worked and we all turned out ok. I want my wife to work as well..take as much time as needed when pregnant.
 
experiment626 said:
That's pretty cool. Maybe it runs in the genes? 😀 Glad you're coming to dentistry though. You'll love it!
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I shadow in two weeks so I'll know for real soon enough.

And unfortunately the aunt sort of encourages the railroad spike train of thought when it comes to kids- she calls her son "Danger Baby" and he's like programmed to find the worst ways to injure himself- doors, ice machine, outlets, anything. And when he's at our house she just sort of laughs about it. :scared:😕😱😡
 
My mother didn't work for the first 10 years of my life (she took off from her teaching job). She's been back at it for another 10 years, but she's finally about to finish for good. The teaching situation in NC is so horrendous that I sincerely fear for all of the teachers in this state. My Dad makes enough money to support our family, but not everyone is in such a fortunate situation. I hope NC fixes things, and soon.

It was nice having my Mom at home growing up; I never had to be in daycare or anything like that. Many of my friends, though, had working parents and still have wonderful relationships with them! However, even though my Mom was at home, I still spent a lot of time with my grandparents because I really wanted to. My kids will likely spend a lot of time in the mornings with grandma and grandpa. Oh well. My parents are awesome. That will be fine! 🙂

Sure, in all honesty, it would be nice to take off a year or two after having my baby. However, I wouldn't want to get that far out of the swing of things, and I'd probably start going crazy! I like working, and I like making money. When I have a family to provide for, that will be even more important to me.

In my opinion, this career is undoubtedly harder as a woman... but I think any professional career is harder as a woman because of the whole family thing. Even if many home responsibilities are split up, we women are the ones with the "motherly instincts," after all, and certain things fall on us. Sort of like my husband will do all of the major yard work... I'll be responsible for other things, particularly with my child during his/her early life. It's all good, and I don't mind.

Or, hey, maybe I will win the lottery. At a 200 million jackpot, I might only work 8-12 MWF for the rest of my life. :laugh:
 
Glimmer1991 said:
My mother didn't work for the first 10 years of my life (she took off from her teaching job). She's been back at it for another 10 years, but she's finally about to finish for good. The teaching situation in NC is so horrendous that I sincerely fear for all of the teachers in this state. My Dad makes enough money to support our family, but not everyone is in such a fortunate situation. I hope NC fixes things, and soon.

It was nice having my Mom at home growing up; I never had to be in daycare or anything like that. Many of my friends, though, had working parents and still have wonderful relationships with them! However, even though my Mom was at home, I still spent a lot of time with my grandparents because I really wanted to. My kids will likely spend a lot of time in the mornings with grandma and grandpa. Oh well. My parents are awesome. That will be fine! 🙂

Sure, in all honesty, it would be nice to take off a year or two after having my baby. However, I wouldn't want to get that far out of the swing of things, and I'd probably start going crazy! I like working, and I like making money. When I have a family to provide for, that will be even more important to me.

In my opinion, this career is undoubtedly harder as a woman... but I think any professional career is harder as a woman because of the whole family thing. Even if many home responsibilities are split up, we women are the ones with the "motherly instincts," after all, and certain things fall on us. Sort of like my husband will do all of the major yard work... I'll be responsible for other things, particularly with my child during his/her early life. It's all good, and I don't mind.

Or, hey, maybe I will win the lottery. At a 200 million jackpot, I might only work 8-12 MWF for the rest of my life. :laugh:
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I'm a NC resident too. :highfive:

I was debating being a teacher myself, but I decided against it. I didn't think that would satisfy me, personally, and the amount of patience to manage 30 high schoolers is insane.

I'm two years behind you (c/o 2020) but who knows? We may cross paths. Especially if you go to a NC school.
 
I can't believe anyone is taking this thread seriously. The person who wrote this blog is an idiot, and I have a hard time believing that this person even got into dental school. The posts are the ravings of a lunatic who can't even stay on one topic. Case in point: the post about having to pay $10,000 in 60 days, but then goes on to rant about how being a doctor is a horrible job, his/her patients are horrible, my life is so hard, wah wah wah. Also, this person spelled loser with two O's ("looser") and and can't even correctly pluralize the word nanny (it's "nannies" folks, not "nannys.")

I mean come on guys. You are smarter than this. This person is either a troll, or some man who wants to upset women into questioning their own career ambitions due to his lack of confidence in himself. You want to be a mom and be a dentist? Do it. You don't need to justify your plans to anyone. Plenty of women do it on a daily basis and you don't need to even engage in such an archaic, asinine conversation.
 
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predent12 said:
I can't believe anyone is taking this thread seriously. The person who wrote this blog is an idiot, and I have a hard time believing that this person even got into dental school. The posts are the ravings of a lunatic who can't even stay on one topic. Case in point: the post about having to pay $10,000 in 60 days, but then goes on to rant about how being a doctor is a horrible job, his/her patients are horrible, my life is so hard, wah wah wah. Also, this person spelled loser with two O's ("looser") and and can't even correctly pluralize the word nanny (it's "nannies" folks, not "nannys.")

I mean come on guys. You are smarter than this. This person is either a troll, or some man who wants to upset women into questioning their own career ambitions due to his lack of confidence in himself. You want to be a mom and be a dentist? Do it. You don't need to justify your plans to anyone. Plenty of women do it on a daily basis and you don't need to even engage in such an archaic, asinine conversation.
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A part of me wonders how horrible a patient can be in dentistry. Especially considering that you're in their mouth for crying out loud, it's not like they can talk back to you. :laugh:

Given the nature of the complaint, the grammar/spelling errors go with the package.

I mean, her complaint is essentially "OMG BROSKIS BEING A HIGH-PAID PROFESSIONAL AND A STAY-AT-HOME MOM IS IMPOSSIBLE SCREW DENTISTRY"

And I do think that women (myself included) need to consider what we want out of a family life if kids are a part of the equation. And I think dentistry can give me that balance, but it is something worth thinking about.

I'm all for knowing what you get into, but it is a silly complaint at best.
 
Her newest post is just petty.

"So you have to work? Who will raise your kids?"

And the "bad nanny" is bad partially because she doesn't keep track of her kid's homework.

Like, real talk, if your kid's like 8-9+, then they should at least be responsible enough to attempt to do their homework. That's not on anyone else, and if your kid's grades drop that steeply because they don't have an adult hounding them, that should scream something's up. I'm not saying that they should like doing it, or be perfect at it, but they should at least establish the connection that doing homework = good grades. If that connection isn't established, it's not a nanny's fault.

I haven't shadowed anyone yet so I was unaware of tail coverage but it's good to know about it now. :shrug:
 
I'm sorry you had a different experience but not everyone is the same. The dentist I shadowed work M-T 9am-3pm (no joke). She did perfectly fine too as far as income.. Also she had three beautiful children and they took a lot of family vacations. Don't try to scare a bunch of pre-dents with your story of what seems to be bad management.
 
Yeah, I'll take a well rested, hot, 1950's style wife who isn't married to her profession over a stressed, overweight, overworked professional women any day. I'm just not interested in a women who is that into her career. Think for a second about the opportunity cost associated with becoming a professional and maintaining a professional career...

Yeah... I'll take an interesting girl who went to UG, has a TON to offer, and sees more to life than her career. I'll be the breadwinner.

Ferneezy said:
i like where this is going

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emorypredent said:
I am somewhat turned off by the over-sensationalized tone of the OP. Also, the vast majority of the problems she points out aren't about being a dentist (or physician or lawyer), they are about having a full time career.

I'm still a pre-dent (and male) but I am convinced that dentistry is closer to being the most flexible profession/career than it is to being the least flexible. I have had a retail job at the mall and I also tried working in a corporate environment. I can guarantee you that my other jobs would be a lot worse in terms of having family time.
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Agreed! I've worked 4 years in NYC in three different industries. Nothing beats getting fat at your desk, spending endless hours in front of the computer, and working for "the man", amirite?

Seriously, though, I'm very happy I worked for a couple different companies because I know where I'm going and what I am walking away from. Male or female, dentistry is a great gig.

Working a desk job in another industry can be just as blood-sucking and horrible as medicine. I've had horrible clients to deal with and they weren't patients. I've worked long hours nights and weekends. I've sacrificed time with friends and family. I've seen plenty of people around me do this, too. And it's totally exhausting if you have a job where you travel all the time - you can't even figure out normal things like grocery shopping or going to the gym. The worst is if someone is laid off and they are only 50 years old or so. Then what do they do? They are usually either overqualified and underpaid, or unemployed. I've seen it happen multiple times to people I've worked with and with family. I'll gladly take a job in dentistry and accept both the good and bad aspects. The good and bad parts of working can be found in every job - it's a fact of life.

I don't think this woman has had a rounded enough experience with work and career to appreciate her position compared to millions of other people.
 
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Some Pig said:
Bee aware:

biological-clock-graph.jpg
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Could you find a sketchier-looking graph?

Haha, but seriously. People have had kids before, during, and after dental school. And even after dental school, someone would be about 24-25(traditional, assuming you get in the first time). So, about ten years in between that and 35, where it's doubled.

It's not impossible. Is it difficult? Sure. The OP felt jilted because she couldn't be a stay-at-home mom and an orthodontist. And as long as that's not the expectation, you can have kids and be a dentist.

It's all about what you want. And nobody can answer that for anybody else but them.
 
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yappy said:
Yeah, I'll take a well rested, hot, 1950's style wife who isn't married to her profession over a stressed, overweight, overworked professional women any day. I'm just not interested in a women who is that into her career. Think for a second about the opportunity cost associated with becoming a professional and maintaining a professional career...

Yeah... I'll take an interesting girl who went to UG, has a TON to offer, and sees more to life than her career. I'll be the breadwinner.
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I'm going to go out on a limb and say that, for many women, one of the great draws of dentistry is that you DON'T have to be married to it. You work four days a week, 9-5. You are on-call very little, if at all. It isn't incredibly high-stress. I'm betting that most female dentists see more to life than their careers--and least all of us here sound like we do. And guess what? We will be making good money. Sure, now, we are all focused on our schoolwork. However, the hard work right now that we're putting in compared to these more "interesting" women you're talking about will pay off in leaps and bounds ten years down the road. We'll be working less than this girl with "tons to offer," and guess what? We'll be making more money. Probably a lot more. And we'll still have time for our families and to be "interesting."

Why wouldn't you want to be in a relationship where you can BOTH be breadwinners?! My boyfriend and I are always egging each other on by telling each other that, "No, I'LL be making more dough!" I mean, seriously, what a fun competition to be in... and really, no matter who makes more, we're both winners! It's one competition I'm not too upset to lose. 😛

I don't want it to sound like the only reason I'm going into this field is for the money. If money was all I cared about, seriously, I'd pick something different. However, the compensation I will receive for this career is certainly a draw, as I want to be able to thoroughly provide for my family.

If I were a guy, I'd totally be going for a girl in dentistry. 👍
 
Glimmer1991 said:
Maybe, for the first 5 years of my child's life, I practice with another dentist and only work until 12 each day. Who knows--I'll cross that bridge 10+ years from now. I'll make it work. Actually, my husband and I will make it work. Even if I'm making a lesser income than usual, he'll still be making money.
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only problem with that is patients want appointments late as possible, and with all the chains opening I don't know any dentist hiring associates
 
predent12 said:
I can't believe anyone is taking this thread seriously. The person who wrote this blog is an idiot, and I have a hard time believing that this person even got into dental school. The posts are the ravings of a lunatic who can't even stay on one topic. Case in point: the post about having to pay $10,000 in 60 days, but then goes on to rant about how being a doctor is a horrible job, his/her patients are horrible, my life is so hard, wah wah wah. Also, this person spelled loser with two O's ("looser") and and can't even correctly pluralize the word nanny (it's "nannies" folks, not "nannys.")

I mean come on guys. You are smarter than this. This person is either a troll, or some man who wants to upset women into questioning their own career ambitions due to his lack of confidence in himself. You want to be a mom and be a dentist? Do it. You don't need to justify your plans to anyone. Plenty of women do it on a daily basis and you don't need to even engage in such an archaic, asinine conversation.
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Actually, there is a pretty good chance this is legitimate. A bit of research sheds some light on a few things:

1. Her blog's "About Me" section indicates that she is Dr. Amanda Wilson, who completed dental school at UCSF and her orthodontic residency at UCONN (she is oddly vague about where she did her residency in her blog, despite the fact that it's easy to look up...).

2. This article indicates she lives in Hawaii with her family, but due to some state regulations is unable to practice as an orthodontist, which probably contributed significantly to her frustration with the field. At the time of the article, she was regularly flying to California to practice and have some income, then flying back home, rinse and repeat.

So most likely not a troll at all, she just left out a significant chunk of the story that probably played a role in why she's so dissatisfied.
 
I love how the OP started this same thread on the pre-med forum and it got 10 replies. Here we have 2 pages worth of opinions :laugh:
 
FeralisExtremum said:
Actually, there is a pretty good chance this is legitimate. A bit of research sheds some light on a few things:

1. Her blog's "About Me" section indicates that she is Dr. Amanda Wilson, who completed dental school at UCSF and her orthodontic residency at UCONN (she is oddly vague about where she did her residency in her blog, despite the fact that it's easy to look up...).

2. This article indicates she lives in Hawaii with her family, but due to some state regulations is unable to practice as an orthodontist, which probably contributed significantly to her frustration with the field. At the time of the article, she was regularly flying to California to practice and have some income, then flying back home, rinse and repeat.

So most likely not a troll at all, she just left out a significant chunk of the story that probably played a role in why she's so dissatisfied.
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Then where are the blogs?
 
Well, I never had the chance to read OP's blogs and since OP has deleted the 'truth,' I'll try to give my two cents based on extrapolations from this thread and OP's previous posts.

OP: UCSF, class of 01-->UConn Ortho, class of 04-->Problems with attaining licensure in HI, 2005-->Been shuffling around various practices in Ca, 04-??-->Retired at age 38 with kids, 2013-->Reveals 'truth' on SDN and blogs, present day

I doubt OP is still repaying or struggling with student loans; that would be very sad especially if one is an ortho who's married to a GP. The OP seems discontent with not being able to practice ortho in HI.

I think the real 'truth' here, if any, is that broken dreams do exist. This can be said for any other careers as well. Unless OP's real agenda here is nothing short of a pathetic ploy in alleviating competition; we may never know.
 
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shootingstar7 said:
I was turned off by it too, so I decided to find out more about her story:

www.honolulu magazine.com/core/pagetools.php?pageid=5284&url=%2FHonolulu-Magazine%2FFebruary-2005%2FA-License-to-Drill%2F&mode=print


She was having trouble becoming licensed to practice in Hawaii due to some red tape, and failed a licensure exam, the ADEX. It kind of sounds like walking away from dentistry was less of a choice than she is making it out to be.
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http://www.honolulumagazine.com/Honolulu-Magazine/February-2005/A-License-to-Drill/

Your link was broken so I reposted it. I don't think she took ADEX since the article is from early 2005, the year ADEX started. She took it before that. It was probably still the state-specific exam at that time. Yes it sucks that the test is about "filling cavities" which she as an orthodontist does not do. But in 2005 and many decades before that, this is how it was to get licensed in many states, including states like California and Nevada. Everyone knew it and prepared accordingly if you wanted to live in those places. It's not like it was a surprise. If you don't fill cavities on a regular basis, you go back and practice on your typodont. Sure you can run to the legislature and complain about how hard it is, but prove yourself first. Every practicing specialist before you had to do it so suck it up and start drilling. If you have a dentist husband, you have a leg up on everyone because you have someone vested in looking for "board quality patients" for you.

I didn't get to read the blog, but there must be more to this story.
 
what a load of crap... trying to discourage people from a rewarding field because she was having licensing issues?? please.
 
gryffindor said:
http://www.honolulumagazine.com/Honolulu-Magazine/February-2005/A-License-to-Drill/

Your link was broken so I reposted it. I don't think she took ADEX since the article is from early 2005, the year ADEX started. She took it before that. It was probably still the state-specific exam at that time. Yes it sucks that the test is about "filling cavities" which she as an orthodontist does not do. But in 2005 and many decades before that, this is how it was to get licensed in many states, including states like California and Nevada. Everyone knew it and prepared accordingly if you wanted to live in those places. It's not like it was a surprise. If you don't fill cavities on a regular basis, you go back and practice on your typodont. Sure you can run to the legislature and complain about how hard it is, but prove yourself first. Every practicing specialist before you had to do it so suck it up and start drilling. If you have a dentist husband, you have a leg up on everyone because you have someone vested in looking for "board quality patients" for you.

I didn't get to read the blog, but there must be more to this story.
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Wow, who knew! Given that she had to fly from hawaii to sacramento once a month in order to practice, I can see why she quit dentistry for her kids. I guess if she was able to get licensed in hawaii she wouldn't have such a harsh view on the profession. We're so good on looking up dirt on people 😉

Also, why did all her blogs get deleted? Were people attacking her on there?
 
Longcatislong said:
Wow, who knew! Given that she had to fly from hawaii to sacramento once a month in order to practice, I can see why she quit dentistry for her kids. I guess if she was able to get licensed in hawaii she wouldn't have such a harsh view on the profession. We're so good on looking up dirt on people 😉

Also, why did all her blogs get deleted? Were people attacking her on there?
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Meh. In all fairness, one could only be subject to scrutiny for a claim of such grandeur, especially when deleting it without further explanation.
 
Conflagration said:
I think having a fellow professional as an SO gives one a myriad of options. They have somebody who understands their troubles, someone who (especially in dentistry) can run the business with you, and having someone who shares your goals is overall easier to communicate with.
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This is true. My parents are both physicians, and it's part of what helps them communicate so well on different levels. They understand each other more than they would if they had different education levels.

The other thing is that when both people are sharing in the economic work and the housework, the couple is in a better position to deal with certain issues that could come up--such as unemployment, disability, a bad economy.

Kef318 said:
Female undergrad here:

I think dentistry is the perfect "medical" field for females. Let's face it--no matter how far women have come, parenting, maintaining a household, etc. still remain largely a woman's responsibility. Dentistry allows for a perfect balance of all that is important in my life--career, kids, family. Of course I'll have debt! I plan to live well within my means and pay it down as quickly as possible. I'll do whatever it takes (including practicing in a chain) to achieve such balance. That's not to say that's my plan forever, but it might be that way to start. Kids are a long way off.

I too, will not be going this alone. My BF (eventual husband) is studying computer and electrical engineering at Carnegie Mellon. He will no doubt be very successful.
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Agreed. Dentistry is one of the medical fields in which (eventually) balance is easier to find from what I have seen and heard.

I'm a female with an engineer boyfriend too! They're pretty much the best ever. :highfive:

Glimmer1991 said:
My kids will likely spend a lot of time in the mornings with grandma and grandpa. Oh well. My parents are awesome. That will be fine! 🙂
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I grew up this way, since my parents have always worked. It was a great way to grow up, and I think it has benefited me a lot to have a strong relationship with my grandparents.

Glimmer1991 said:
Sort of like my husband will do all of the major yard work... I'll be responsible for other things, particularly with my child during his/her early life. It's all good, and I don't mind.
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The problem I personally have with "female"/"male" chores is that most of the chores that fall under the responsibility of the woman usually have to be repeated more often than the chores that fall under the responsibility of the man. Eg. cooking, washing dishes, cleaning the house, and laundry are traditionally considered "female" chores whereas mowing the lawn, fixing the car, taking trash out, and fixing occasional problems around the house are traditionally considered "male" chores.

Perhaps it's because I grew up in an egalitarian household, but I cannot imagine living like that! My mother actually works more than my father, so he does more chores than she does. 😱 :laugh:

As for child care--there are many benefits for children whose fathers take on a more active role earlier in their lives. I think a lot of people underestimate just how important it is for fathers to be actively involved with their children.

Glimmer1991 said:
We'll be working less than this girl with "tons to offer," and guess what? We'll be making more money. Probably a lot more. And we'll still have time for our families and to be "interesting."
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I'm pretty sure yappy is suggesting he would prefer a stay at home wife or a wife who works part-time to a professional wife. So we will probably be working more, because she will not be working full-time outside the home. I'm not saying housework doesn't count as work, but the majority of women who are employed full-time do a significant amount of housework after they get home from work.


I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned before, but as long as there is enough money I'm personally planning on hiring help to do at least some (if not most) of the chores.

IMO this is a great investment because it will free up more time that can be used to spend with family and/or keeping up my own interests outside of my career and my romantic/family life (eg. working out, having friends, etc). Additionally, I have a strong preference for an egalitarian split of chores as well as childcare.
 
Baba Yaga said:
The problem I personally have with "female"/"male" chores is that most of the chores that fall under the responsibility of the woman usually have to be repeated more often than the chores that fall under the responsibility of the man. Eg. cooking, washing dishes, cleaning the house, and laundry are traditionally considered "female" chores whereas mowing the lawn, fixing the car, taking trash out, and fixing occasional problems around the house are traditionally considered "male" chores.

Perhaps it's because I grew up in an egalitarian household, but I cannot imagine living like that! My mother actually works more than my father, so he does more chores than she does. 😱 :laugh:

As for child care--there are many benefits for children whose fathers take on a more active role earlier in their lives. I think a lot of people underestimate just how important it is for fathers to be actively involved with their children.

...


I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned before, but as long as there is enough money I'm personally planning on hiring help to do at least some (if not most) of the chores.
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Great points, baba yaga! On the first issue, it will probably be me spending more time with my kids simply because I won't work as much. That's just sort of life--lawyers don't get Fridays off, you know? 🙂 He will definitely be involved, though! That's not even a question--he is going to be an absolutely awesome father. For example, my mother works less than my dad and actually didn't work for the first 10 years of my life. I spent much more time with her, but that isn't to say that Dad wasn't there. We are extremely close.

My parents pretty much split the chores. The both clean the house (actually, they now pay my little brother to do it, but they used to do it together). Mom cooks. Dad does stuff in the yard. Dad fixes stuff. They both played equal roles in "parenting" us. Dad is the breadwinner by a long shot, but they are able to take every bit of money that Mom makes and put it into retirement (along with a good chunk of Dad's income). I've grown up in a very well-balanced household, and I want the same for my children.

I totally agree with you than I plan on hiring people to help! I've jokingly said that my goal in life is to make enough money to afford maid service. :laugh: I LOVE organizing, but I HATE cleaning!! I don't mind doing laundry, but he'll have to be the one fixing stuff because I'll have no clue how. I think we'll split cooking pretty evenly because he actually enjoys it. Luckily, I don't mind mowing the grass, but my husband probably won't mind doing the other yardwork. My ideal home won't even have that much of a yard, anyhow, so there shouldn't be that much to do. 🙂

I'm glad there are some women on here who seem to have things figured out. 👍
 
Glimmer1991 said:
Great points, baba yaga! On the first issue, it will probably be me spending more time with my kids simply because I won't work as much. That's just sort of life--lawyers don't get Fridays off, you know? 🙂 He will definitely be involved, though! That's not even a question--he is going to be an absolutely awesome father. For example, my mother works less than my dad and actually didn't work for the first 10 years of my life. I spent much more time with her, but that isn't to say that Dad wasn't there. We are extremely close.

My parents pretty much split the chores. The both clean the house (actually, they now pay my little brother to do it, but they used to do it together). Mom cooks. Dad does stuff in the yard. Dad fixes stuff. They both played equal roles in "parenting" us. Dad is the breadwinner by a long shot, but they are able to take every bit of money that Mom makes and put it into retirement (along with a good chunk of Dad's income). I've grown up in a very well-balanced household, and I want the same for my children.

I totally agree with you than I plan on hiring people to help! I've jokingly said that my goal in life is to make enough money to afford maid service. :laugh: I LOVE organizing, but I HATE cleaning!! I don't mind doing laundry, but he'll have to be the one fixing stuff because I'll have no clue how. I think we'll split cooking pretty evenly because he actually enjoys it. Luckily, I don't mind mowing the grass, but my husband probably won't mind doing the other yardwork. My ideal home won't even have that much of a yard, anyhow, so there shouldn't be that much to do. 🙂

I'm glad there are some women on here who seem to have things figured out. 👍
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Oh okay, I get exactly what you're saying now. Sorry I think I may have misinterpreted something that was vague in the earlier post. I completely agree with all the points you've made. It really depends on doing what's best for the household and how much time people actually have, due to their careers. 🙂

I get kind of obsessive about cleaning, actually, so it's best for me not to clean, because I would be spending way too much time doing that. Plus there are a million ways I'd rather spend my time than doing housework!

I'm so glad there are women on here who are going to have to figure these things out and are speaking up about their goals and plans. I've seen some related topics in other boards that did not turn out so well.

I'm certainly not saying that I have an issue with anyone else's choices. People should be making the decisions that are best for them. However, if someone is putting other people down for their choices is not okay and I'm glad it's not all over this thread.
 
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experiment626 said:
I probably won't be having any kids until my early or mid 30's. After dental school, I want to live the young and adventurous life I've been missing out on from all the hard studying. Now that I think about it, I haven't really been living life to it's fullest. Hopefully I'll have some spare money after DS to do some of the stuff in this video. Once the kids pop out, that's it.

[YOUTUBE]faHPucqig2U[/YOUTUBE]
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This is a really beautiful video! Basically all of these trips have been on my list for a while (although not necessarily with the travel companions suggested)...the problem is figuring out when to go and securing the funds.

I'm female and won't be planning on kids until 30+ (I'm a non-trad applicant and will be graduating d-school at that time--I am not having kids while in school), so I guess I'm similar to you on that one. If you're male, you can wait a little longer, but I've read that if males are much beyond 35 in terms of age, the likelihood of mental health disorders and autism increase. Plus I don't think anyone wants to be too old to keep up with their kids.
 
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Baba Yaga said:
If you're male, you can wait a little longer, but I've read that if males are much beyond 35 in terms of age, the likelihood of mental health disorders and autism increase. Plus I don't think anyone wants to be too old to keep up with their kids.
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This is only true to a minor extent. It is primarily the female's age, not male's, that increases the risk of health problems in children beyond the age of 35.
 
FeralisExtremum said:
This is only true to a minor extent. It is primarily the female's age, not male's, that increases the risk of health problems in children beyond the age of 35.
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Eh, this area needs quite a bit more research before the true extent to which a male's age is a risk factor for developing these disorders can actually be quantified--and at that point, the effect of that information will depend on how individuals interpret and define the results for themselves. Or how the media spins it for those people who do not go past the surface of scientific information.

I never said that this was more relevant than a female's age, but since people on this forum and otherwise seem to be harping on ambitious females who are trying to establish a career before having kids and traditionally this conversation never even touches on the possible risk of increasing paternal age, I thought it was something worth mentioning.
 
LaughingGas said:
My wife is non-trad premed. If she finishes accordingly, she will finish with residency in mid 30s. You can always freeze some fertilized eggs 😛
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Never bothered to check whether literature supports a claim in Time Magazine, vol. 181, April 22, 2013, column on some page titled "Fragile Sperm."😱


-----------------------------------------------------
Fast cash now? Minimum collateral: 1 egg.
 
yappy said:
This whole thread bring up an important question...

If you're a male professional; what is the value in getting married to a female professional?

My view is that if you're a male professional your wife will see your established career, and decent income, as an opportunity to "escape" like the OP. Therefore, I think it's most wise for a male professional to date younger-non-professional women who can make a peaceful home, focus on her appearance, and be all around soothing to our tired self. 👍
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Lol that is ridiculous! If you're a woman going into dentistry, it is in no way in order to marry another dentist and be "set free" from working. You would not go through 8+ years of schooling and $100k's just to pretend to be on the Bachelor.

Hopefully people aren't choosing their spouses based solely off of their educational background, and if they are I don't know too many people who prefer non-educated. If I were a male professional I would think if anything I'd be interested in woman who would contribute financially, either in my practice or in their own profession. Would you really want to do all the work and make all the money while they sit at home? And how many woman WANT to stay at home all day? There are some but I don't.

Anyway, that was slightly off topic but back to what Glimmer said, dentistry is extremely flexible in the mom-department and if it's what you love, you make it work! Those loans are going to get paid off by your working spouse while you birth that child and then you can go back to work whenever you want. There are things called grandma/grandpa, nannies, stay-at-home/part time DADS, childcare, SCHOOL... You can make your schedule shorter, earlier, later. So many options. If I marry another dentist, awesome. If I don't, awesome. It won't change that I'm going to be a practicing dentist doing what I love and I'm going to have children (hopefully 2-3😍) that I will love. I will graduate dental school when I'm 25. That gives me 15 years to have kids. Plenty of time.

If you strictly want to be a mom then dentistry isn't for you and often I've found (in my own friends) that women who REALLY want kids have them ASAP, which makes school completely out of the question in their mind.
 
TheWeeIceMan said:
Seriously though, I would have thought dentistry would be the perfect job for a woman that wanted a family and a career. Assuming she isn't saddled with a ton of debt of course.
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The true perfect job for a woman that wants a family and a career is a job called motherhood. All other attempts will fade away into the obscurity of disappointment and emptiness.
 
tigerteeth22 said:
Lol that is ridiculous! If you're a woman going into dentistry, it is in no way in order to marry another dentist and be "set free" from working. You would not go through 8+ years of schooling and $100k's just to pretend to be on the Bachelor.

Hopefully people aren't choosing their spouses based solely off of their educational background, and if they are I don't know too many people who prefer non-educated. If I were a male professional I would think if anything I'd be interested in woman who would contribute financially, either in my practice or in their own profession. Would you really want to do all the work and make all the money while they sit at home? And how many woman WANT to stay at home all day? There are some but I don't.

Anyway, that was slightly off topic but back to what Glimmer said, dentistry is extremely flexible in the mom-department and if it's what you love, you make it work! Those loans are going to get paid off by your working spouse while you birth that child and then you can go back to work whenever you want. There are things called grandma/grandpa, nannies, stay-at-home/part time DADS, childcare, SCHOOL... You can make your schedule shorter, earlier, later. So many options. If I marry another dentist, awesome. If I don't, awesome. It won't change that I'm going to be a practicing dentist doing what I love and I'm going to have children (hopefully 2-3😍) that I will love. I will graduate dental school when I'm 25. That gives me 15 years to have kids. Plenty of time.

If you strictly want to be a mom then dentistry isn't for you and often I've found (in my own friends) that women who REALLY want kids have them ASAP, which makes school completely out of the question in their mind.
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I am not intending to be rude when I say this, just as realistic as possible:

You obviously have no idea what you are in for. I know of what I speak. Kids are not a part time job. They aren't even full time. They are all consuming. Worth every minute and dollar but you're own previous life is automatically over.
 
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