Army National Guard's new Med student program details.

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hmm i thought if one joined without taking the stipend (i'm assuming MDSSP) and just served then there is no additional obligation. my understanding was that commitment starts on the day i am sworn in (when i start med school), and so the 8 years that i am signing up for is really 4 years of med school and afterwards...going to have to do some more investigative work.
You are correct.

Your 8 year MSO (military service obligation) starts ticking the moment you swear in, whether you're enlisted, officer, Navy, Army, Air Force or Marine.

In the Guard, new officers also commit to 6 years of those 8 years being drilling status.

If you take MDSSP or any obligation-incurring program, it is served at the same time as the above. But if you take more than one obligation-incurring program, those obligation-incurring programs are paid back one after the other. Make sense?
 
infirmarydude said:
Technically you are right abou the 8 years MSO, and some places may let you join with no commitment, as long as you are commissioned as a med student you are non deployable
This is not correct. There have been many med students deployed during med school because they were not in a protected program. I spoke to one just the other day. Best advice, get your protected status in writing before you sign.
Actually, infirmarydude IS CORRECT. If you are a medical student, you are an 00E67, which is a non-deployable MOS. You will not be deployed.

When med students are deployed, it's because they are not in 00E67 slots. They are National Guardsmen or Reservists who have prior training and other MOS's. If you get trained and serve as a 68W (medic) and then get into med school, you can be pulled out of med school as a 68W, as this is your MOS. The only exception is if your MOS is converted to 00E67, which is unlikely unless you take MDSSP. But if you have no prior military background, you have no other MOS, so you're given 00E67 and you are non-deployable.
7starmantis said:
Also, I have never heard of any National Guard (or any military branch for that matter) that accepts commissioned officers (or NCO's, or enlisted personnel) without any kind of commitment.
The Guard commitment for all commissioned officers is 6 years drilling. infirmarydude would be committed to that if he joined outside of MDSSP.
7starmantis said:
Let me repeat: If you are not in a special status program (meaning you just join the Guard yourself) and/or do not have a protected status outlined in your contract, you can (and probably will) be deployed at any time.
7starmantis- This is incorrect. Please see my information above.

Please be careful about speaking so emphatic about what you think policy is if you're uncertain. One of the reasons this thread exists is to try to get rid of all of the rumor and bad info out there.
7starmantis said:
Even further, most tuition assistance, bonuses, etc are recommissioning bonuses and you wont get those unless you recommission after being licensed as a physician and serving your initial MSO.
Also incorrect. The tuition assitance infirmarydude is talking about is available to any Guardsman after joining. They do not need to be trained.

Also, HPLRP and Special Pay have nothing to do with your MSO. You need to be BE, but the MSO doesn't factor in.
7starmantis said:
Again, let me be clear. If you join the Guard outside of one of the protected status programs (like MDSSP or STRAP) you are deployable.
Incorrect. Please see above
 
My turn for a question: if I can't fit officer training in until maybe after residency (not because I don't want to but because I won't have the time - I do FP rotations my first summer) what am I not eligible for? Does that mean I won't be promoted after med school? Just curious. Thanks
You definitely want to get BOLC done prior to finishing medical school. You are required to have it done within 2 years of joining, but they will extend it to a 3rd year on case-by-case basis. Summer between first and second years is usually the best. Fourth year elective time is also another option.

You do not want to try to do it during residency. You will have to take an unscheduled 3-1/2 weeks off, which will mean very little vacation for a year or two and it will also mean fellow residents having to cover your shifts. You don't want that. Do it in medical school. It may not feel like it, but you have a lot more free time.
 
that I don't have to take any incentives and I would still be protected from deployment.
Assuming you're not prior service (other MOS qualified), this is correct.
I'm actually planning on doing MDDSP year 2 and 3 only (only do 3 yrs) and she said that was fine as I would be commissioned as a medical student and not be deployable and then sign the incentives when I'm ready to take it.
Also correct, but when you say MDSSP, you can not take it only for MS 2 and MS 3. If you only take it for two years, it must be the final two years. MDSSP, if taken for less than the full years, must be taken so that you finish MDSSP as you finish medical school. Make sense?
When do I get this contract to review and sign? Is this at the meeting/interview thing where I go to the base and swear in?
Yes. And prepare to be underwhelmed. If you want to see things like the exemption mobilization, the t's and c's of MDSSP, STRAP, etc., these are covered by policy documentation (which you can get from your recruiter at any time). You will see a very short contract that says little other than your 6 year drilling commitment and 8 year MSO.
I would also love to do the training but a month is a long time to fit in. I would for sure like to get it done before residency so I have the possibility of promotions
Moot point. You have three years to get BOLC done. They have been soft on this in the past but have been cracking the whip over the last year or two.
 
I spoke about flexi also because seems like there were only ASRs in my school recently with no regular drilling students. She said she spoke to the CO at the closest location to my school and said he was on board with flexi.

Once I get my hands on the contract I will read it closely for these details.
Flexi-training, as mentioned above, is going to mentioned in a policy doc. You won't see it in your contract.

Most car loans are longer than your military contract. The reason for this is that there's really actually very little the military promises you, at the end of the day. Most things are covered by policy.

What this means to you, is in case of WWIII, your mobilization exemption could go away. You're joining the military, so it's not to be taken lightly.
 
You are correct.

Your 8 year MSO (military service obligation) starts ticking the moment you swear in, whether you're enlisted, officer, Navy, Army, Air Force or Marine.

In the Guard, new officers also commit to 6 years of those 8 years being drilling status.

If you take MDSSP or any obligation-incurring program, it is served at the same time as the above. But if you take more than one obligation-incurring program, those obligation-incurring programs are paid back one after the other. Make sense?

dear notdeadyet,

thanks for the clarification. i have been in contact with an Illinois national guard recruiter who seemed to be familiar with recruiting medical students - he did say that i would be non-deployable during medical school AND during residency ( i even enquired about the IRR and my status during that time, but he said that I would not be deployable!) i did firmly say i will not be taking MDSSP or STRAP, so it seems that this is a possible thing. i will be getting all the fine print soon so that i could take a look over it because my biggest worry is being pulled out of residency, and that would be terrible.
 
:laugh: You just said the same thing I did. We are saying the same things, it just seems you’re getting a little caught up in the semantics of how I said it. I’m trying not to use military speak to be as clear as possible about what one can expect. When I said “special status” that would include your 00E67 mos.

That is a non-deployable status and is precisely what I was encouraging those wishing to join to advocate for themselves. We are basically saying the same thing, I am just highlighting the need to be proactive about your status. Not all states have the same recruitment policies.

My point was especially for those pre-meds who join and even train before med school. They need to be aware and advocate for themselves in this process. Too many take action based on assumptions, and that’s bad practice. Trust me, med students and residents have been deployed, I’ve spoken with both, one just a week ago who was just returning from deployment overseas and getting transferred into STRAP. My point still stands, if you are not protected you can and will be deployed (meaning you should be proactive about your status).

Your correct, it is especially important for prior service to be aware of, but those joining before med school should know, just to make sure they get placed correctly. I can never advocate expecting a specific outcome if you aren’t prepared to make it happen. Even if Illinois automatically places you as 00E67 you should still ask and make sure.

My whole point is to encourage those wanting to join, to do their research and make sure they get the best options available to them. Also, I never speak emphatically about things I'm uncertain about.

A couple technicalities however:
Also incorrect. The tuition assitance infirmarydude is talking about is available to any Guardsman after joining. They do not need to be trained.
Also, HPLRP and Special Pay have nothing to do with your MSO. You need to be BE, but the MSO doesn't factor in.[/
Again, poorly defined discussion here. If you are referring to GI Bill, etc you are correct. If you are referring to HPLRP etc, you are not being clear.
If you join as a medical student your initial 6 (drilling) years does not qualify for HPLRP, specialty bonuses, etc. These can be taken advantage of upon extending your contract. You don’t have any med school debt to be paid off yet anyway amd you certainly have no specialty.
notdeadyet said:
You definitely want to get BOLC done prior to finishing medical school. You are required to have it done within 2 years of joining, but they will extend it to a 3rd year on case-by-case basis.
This varies by state and med commanders. It has been extended much much longer than 3 years. In fact I know a guy who extended it all 4 years of med school and 4 years of residency. It’s one of those policy issues that can be different from person to person.
I would agree with getting it done before finishing or at least before beginning residency, but its flexible. However, it sounds great and I think it would be in your best interest to do it asap. You will find the Guard is quite flexible with quite a bit if you are willing to stay in contact with them and take care of your responsibilities.

Bottom line here folks, is talk to your recruiter, information on the internet is simply that. Get the facts, and know your options before signing. I’ll say it again: If you are not in a special status like MDSSP or STRAP (including a student mos; just for you notdeadyet) you are deployable. The point being; be proactive about your status before signing.
 
:laugh: You just said the same thing I did. We are saying the same things, it just seems you're getting a little caught up in the semantics of how I said it.
If we're saying the same things, you really need to take care to be more clear. The advice you're giving is going to be misinterpreted.

  • A poster is asking if he can just sign up without doing MDSSP or STRAP and you're saying that they can and likely will be deployed. This is incorrect. Med students are protected from deployment unless they joined the National Guard as something other than a med student. Simple enough.
  • A poster is asking if they can take tuition assistance as a Guardsman and you're saying that they need to burn through their MSO or obligation first. This isn't correct either. They can take tuition assistance right away. They aren't asking about SP or HPLRP or the rest.
Not all states have the same recruitment policies.
They don't have the same recruitment policies but deployment policies are federal. Federal tuition assistance is also federal.
My point was especially for those pre-meds who join and even train before med school.
That's great and worthy of another thread, but not applicable to the questions being asked, so it's ripe for confusion. In fact, not much on this thread is of interest to folks who want to join the National Guard as medics or infantry and then later go to med school.

Folks posting on this thread, almost to a one, are interested in taking MDSSP, STRAP, or joining without an obligation-incurring program. Bringing up deployment possibilities for folks who go 11B and such is going to be confusing unless you specify that you're talking about scenarios folks aren't asking about.
Again, poorly defined discussion here. If you are referring to GI Bill, etc you are correct. If you are referring to HPLRP etc, you are not being clear.
No, not poorly defined. Very well defined: tuition assistance. I'm not referring to the GI Bill or HPLRP, nor was the poster. You're confusing things by pulling in a lot of non-relevant.

Tuition assistance. Very specific. Very clear. Very defined. Easy answer. Available to all Guardsmen on joining. 'Nuff said.

As for the BOLC requirements, while they've been very lax in the past, they've issued new policies (federal) that will make extensions extremely difficult to get beyond the 3 years. The Army is also getting rid of constructive credit that waived it to folks on the active site. It definitely used to be easy to waive, but this is not the case now, and it's at the federal level. If a state somehow gets away at this point without enforcing it, that's great, but anyone signing should be prepared to go to BOLC within three years or they'll likely have some unpleasant surprises that could impact their schedules.
Bottom line here folks, is talk to your recruiter, information on the internet is simply that. Get the facts, and know your options before signing.
Agreed. This is why people post here: we have a lot of AMEDD recruiters that contribute to the thread.
I'll say it again: If you are not in a special status like MDSSP or STRAP (including a student mos; just for you notdeadyet) you are deployable.
Good advice for anyone thinking of joining in a non-med student role. In 58 pages, that question hasn't come up, but there may be a budding calvary scout lurking on the thread somewhere. Everyone else joining in a med student role are fine.
 
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thanks for the clarification. i have been in contact with an Illinois national guard recruiter who seemed to be familiar with recruiting medical students - he did say that i would be non-deployable during medical school AND during residency ( i even enquired about the IRR and my status during that time, but he said that I would not be deployable!) i did firmly say i will not be taking MDSSP or STRAP, so it seems that this is a possible thing. i will be getting all the fine print soon so that i could take a look over it because my biggest worry is being pulled out of residency, and that would be terrible.
Good stuff. We've had this thread going for years, most of us still on it are AMEDD Student Recruiters, so we're pretty familiar with the recruitment process. It sounds like your recruiter is giving you good info.

The current policy is that as long as you're in residency training, you are non-deployable (unless voluntary). That theoretically could change, but keep in mind that this is the highest tempo docs in the Guard have witnessed in decades and it hasn't happened, so I wouldn't particularly worry about it.
 
If we're saying the same things, you really need to take care to be more clear. The advice you're giving is going to be misinterpreted.

  • A poster is asking if he can just sign up without doing MDSSP or STRAP and you're saying that they can and likely will be deployed. This is incorrect. Med students are protected from deployment unless they joined the National Guard as something other than a med student. Simple enough.
  • A poster is asking if they can take tuition assistance as a Guardsman and you're saying that they need to burn through their MSO or obligation first. This isn't correct either. They can take tuition assistance right away. They aren't asking about SP or HPLRP or the rest.

Sorry man, but in your haste to be the expert here, your overlooking my point. I said unless they were in protected status like MDSSP or STRAP they were deployable (I even included your 00E67 student mos). That is the truth. That'll do.

Many people join the guard before they begin medical school classes. You can brush it off all you want, but someone joining, needs to be proactive about their status. As you agree, recruiting policies differ.

I understand you feel a sense of ownership of this thread, but to advise someone who hasn't all the facts, to seek out their recruiter and be proactive about their status is just solid intelligent advice. Not all states and/or recruiters immediately place students in a student mos, especially if they want to drill during school. That is something worth being aware of and be proactive about. I'm not sure I understand your aversion to advise about being proactive and asking questions.

In fact, not much on this thread is of interest to folks who want to join the National Guard as medics or infantry and then later go to med school.
Thats not what I'm talking about either. You may not have experience with students joining before beginning med school and being placed in a different mos, but it happens and many dont think to make sure they are transfered. Its real, its happened, and its not a big deal to warn young pre-meds to be aware and proactive about it. No one is talking down the Guard or your thread.

Tuition assistance. Very specific. Very clear. Very defined. Easy answer. Available to all Guardsmen on joining. 'Nuff said.
:laugh: Tuition assistance isn't much compared to medical school costs. Many young pre-meds dont understand the difference between things like tuition assistance, GI Bill, HPLRP, etc. I was advising they ask questions of thier recruiter to get the facts.

Sorry man, your out of line if you think advising people to ask their recruiter about specific issues is unclear, non-relevant, or inappropriate in any way.
 
Very salty for someone who has been in the Guard for all of how many weeks? You were still toying with the Air Guard a couple months ago, no?

Again, free country, but when folks try to gently correct some blanket statements or advice that sounds misleading, it's only because we get these questions all the time and understand where the confusion comes from. We are familiar with the requirements and policies and the documentation backing them up. I'm sorry if I offended you, but the way you were phrasing your information made some of your answers flat out wrong and the main goal of this thread is to defeat the bad information folks get out there.

EDIT: Ugh, I did a quick search and see you have a history of flaming and antagonistic discussions. I'll leave it alone. All the best to you...
 
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Very salty for someone who has been in the Guard for all of how many weeks? You were still toying with the Air Guard a couple months ago, no?
Truth isn't contingent on the speakers time spent.

Again, free country, but when folks try to gently correct some blanket statements or advice that sounds misleading, it's only because we get these questions all the time and understand where the confusion comes from. We are familiar with the requirements and policies and the documentation backing them up. I'm sorry if I offended you, but the way you were phrasing your information made some of your answers flat out wrong and the main goal of this thread is to defeat the bad information folks get out there.
You have demonstrated my point. These kinds of reactions are precisely why I advise young people to ask very specific questions of their recruiters. Taking such hard line static definitions and responses, while not incorrect doesn't offer any additional helpful information either. Its why recruiters are viewed as trying to trick and tell "half truths" to people. Yes, tuition assistance is available, did you mention how much it is? Did you mention what exactly it covers vs what new medical students will be undertaking financially? Did you explain the difference between tuition assistance and loan repayment? No, you didn't. Many young kids have no idea about military terms or policies. I believe they should be aware and ask very specific questions to understand all they can before making a decision. Sorry that upsets you.

Talk to your recruiter people, be specific and ask lots of questions. Best advice I ever got and could ever give.

EDIT: Ugh, I did a quick search and see you have a history of flaming and antagonistic discussions. I'll leave it alone. All the best to you...
Nothing you said offends me, but these kinds of personal attacks are uncalled for and speak volumes about you. I understand that you label people according to whether you agree with them or not, but this is just immature.
Grow up.
 
both of you - thanks for all of your time and effort and interest in helping others.

notdeadyet -

thanks for clarifying about the contract and the policies - I will be discussing this further with my recruiter and asking for copies of these policy memos.

about the training timeline - i will have to look into this further.

thanks again
 
thanks for clarifying about the contract and the policies - I will be discussing this further with my recruiter and asking for copies of these policy memos.
No worries. Definitely get a copy of the mobilization exemption policy, the deployment memo (this is the 90 days boots-in-sand memo), and (most importantly) the AMEDD officer incentives memo. The latter goes through and lists the benefits for medical students (MDSSP, federal tuition assistance), residents (STRAP), and attendings (HPLRP and Special Pay). You should also ask him for details about any state-specific benefits; about half the states have special bennies, some of which are truly awesome. Many have nothing additional. Also ask for a policy doc in writing that lets you know when you need to have BOLC done by.

As you go through, feel free to post questions here. And keep in mind that at the end of the day, until you swear in, you can always walk away. Make sure you're confident in your decision. Best of luck with it.
 
Very salty for someone who has been in the Guard for all of how many weeks? You were still toying with the Air Guard a couple months ago, no?

Again, free country, but when folks try to gently correct some blanket statements or advice that sounds misleading, it's only because we get these questions all the time and understand where the confusion comes from. We are familiar with the requirements and policies and the documentation backing them up. I'm sorry if I offended you, but the way you were phrasing your information made some of your answers flat out wrong and the main goal of this thread is to defeat the bad information folks get out there.

EDIT: Ugh, I did a quick search and see you have a history of flaming and antagonistic discussions. I'll leave it alone. All the best to you...

I got about 90% of the technical info I needed by reading posts in this thread. I'd guess at least 90% of the posts were authored by you. The very specific language is appreciated, and I have used some of that very specific language to correct incorrect information believed by my friends.
 
You definitely want to get BOLC done prior to finishing medical school. You are required to have it done within 2 years of joining, but they will extend it to a 3rd year on case-by-case basis. Summer between first and second years is usually the best. Fourth year elective time is also another option.

You do not want to try to do it during residency. You will have to take an unscheduled 3-1/2 weeks off, which will mean very little vacation for a year or two and it will also mean fellow residents having to cover your shifts. You don't want that. Do it in medical school. It may not feel like it, but you have a lot more free time.

While summer between first and second year is the ideal time to do BOLC, it won't work for me (I am starting 3rd year in a month). However, if you're in a similar boat, try talking to your school. I got a 4-week block carved out of my rotation schedule to go to BOLC this winter. I will just have 1 more rotation to do during 4th year (rather than 'research' time) but it's worth it for me. Others in my class who are getting married have done the same.

'I'd like to move a rotation around so I can go serve my country' or some such line is a pretty good one. As notdeadyet said, better to do it now while we still have flexibility.

Crossing my fingers that my physical and packet go through soon...
 
To those reading this in the future who may be considering the Guard, it’s a great opportunity but not one to be taken lightly. Like all big decisions it is important to protect yourself. My point has always been only to ask specific questions of your recruiter and be your own advocate. Anyone who has a problem with that kind of advice is selling something. Remember states vary in their policies and procedures (especially over time), so please make sure you have all the info before making a decision.

I’m not talking down the Guard, Guard recruiters, notdeadyet specifically, or ASR’s in general. In fact, quite the opposite, I think the Guard offers a great opportunity and experience, it’s simply important to understand everything about what you are getting into. I have no vested interest in influencing people one way or the other about the National Guard. I do however want completely informed fellow physicians and healthcare professionals beside me in the Guard. I will deploy while in the Guard (even if voluntary) and I think everyone should, it’s a great opportunity. I simply want to influence those thinking about the Guard to be completely informed. That is all I have ever said here; ask questions and be informed. There is no harm in protecting your education and no shame in asking questions. The internet however is not the place to get your facts. Get with your recruiter before you take some piece of information as fact. This is a great thread and notdeadyet has provided some great information, no question about it. But please don’t take what you read here as regulation without checking, regardless of who posted it.

If you are looking for some feedback about someone’s experience with the whole process I would be happy talk. No lines, no recruiter talk, just straight up about my own experience. My reasoning for posting here is simply to encourage those interested in joining to do their own research and be their own advocates. The Guard is an amazing opportunity, just be proactive is all I ask.
 
While summer between first and second year is the ideal time to do BOLC, it won't work for me (I am starting 3rd year in a month). However, if you're in a similar boat, try talking to your school. I got a 4-week block carved out of my rotation schedule to go to BOLC this winter. I will just have 1 more rotation to do during 4th year (rather than 'research' time) but it's worth it for me. Others in my class who are getting married have done the same.
Sounds like you attend a pretty human medical school. That's really refreshing to hear. Lots of places seem to treat third year as if it's completely written in stone (mine is like this). Glad they moved your schedule around for the sake of military training.
'I'd like to move a rotation around so I can go serve my country' or some such line is a pretty good one[.
Another tact folks can take is mention that they have mandatory military training that needs to be completed within two or possibly three years of signing. You can volunteer to show them the policy that requires this. Then offer possible solutions for what you can move it around and leave it to the administration.

While schools can get pretty proprietary about how their schedule is layed out, they also know that they are required by law to make allowances for military service. This has worked for some.
Crossing my fingers that my physical and packet go through soon...
Best of luck with the process. Let us know if there's anything we can do to help...
 
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RE: BOLC

One last suggestion (albeit a longshot) is to print out a course description of BOLC and see if you can get any academic credit for it.

Most medical schools have fourth year courses divided into something along the lines of clinical (patient-interaction rotations), research ('nuff said), and didactics (classroom-based courses such as running codes, interpreting EKGs, culture in medicine, etc.). BOLC has qualified for some in the past for didactic credit. It's a three-and-a-half week course, and schools won't give credit for PT and rifle range, but BOLC also includes didactics in things like cultural awareness, military medicine history, medical evacuation, etc.

Some schools have given two weeks of didactics credit for attending BOLC. I sure wasn't able to get it, but it's worth inquiring about at your medical school.
 
Notdeadyet or anyone who is in the guard:

1) do you have any regrets and why?

2) is there anything you found out after joining that you wish you would have known before joining?

3) what are the cons for joining?

Thanks! I'm excited about it but being I just sent in my app I figure have a few more months (at least 2 I'm thinking) to think about it.
 
Notdeadyet or anyone who is in the guard:

1) do you have any regrets and why?

2) is there anything you found out after joining that you wish you would have known before joining?

3) what are the cons for joining?
Good questions. I'd encourage other Guard folks who frequent this board still to put in their $0.02.

Please preface your answers with how long you've been in the Guard and at what phase of your medical career you're in (e.g.: MS II, PGY-3, 4th year attending, etc.)
 
I've been in the Guard about 2-1/2 years. I'm currently in transition, about to start my first year of residency.
1) do you have any regrets and why?
I have micro-regrets, but not macro-regrets. By this I mean that there are days I wish I hadn't joined, but never weeks I wish I hadn't or months I wish I hadn't.

There are some weekends that I just don't want to drill. With Flexi-Training, if I have a real academic conflict, I don't drill. But more often there's just something really cool happening (ski trip, buddy in town, etc.) that I'd much rather do than drill. These are micro-regrets.

But overall it hasn't been a big conflict with medical school. Many medical students have absolutely no conflicts with medical school and can devote everything they have to it. The Guard is a small conflict. Less a conflict than a marriage and much less a conflict than a child, but more a conflict than intramural volleyball or an addiction to Game of Thrones.

So no overall regrets, but, sure, there are times that I'd rather not drill. It will be interesting to see if my perspective changes as I start residency. In a few weeks. Gulp. Because I'll be an actual physician, which gives a bit more possibility for responsibility and an actual assignment in the Guard. The Flexi- part of Flexi-training may diminish.
2) is there anything you found out after joining that you wish you would have known before joining?
That I really don't like the beret...

No, seriously, I did a lot of research into my decision to join and made sure I was at peace with it. I read a lot of this forum (this thread was particularly helpful) and contacted individual Guardsmen who were very patient in answering my million and one questions. So there were no big surprises along the way.

I suppose the only thing I wished I'd known before joining (and it wouldn't have affected my decision any) is that dealing with the Army on all things administrative requires a lot of patience. There is a lot of check boxes to be hit and online training to do and "urgent" requirements to get dental clearance within five days and the like. These can be aggravating, but it's the price you pay. There are similar frustrations dealing with any big bureaucracy, but the Army is different in that these are not requests, they are requirements.

I suppose another thing I'd wished I'd known, just for comfort's sake, is that the Army Medical Corps is a lot more diverse than I was expecting. I'm a non-traditional Guardsman in many ways. For one example, my political leanings are much more to the left than your average soldier. I was happily surprised to find that while the Army as a whole very much trends towards Republican and Christian (evangelical, at that), AMEDD is probably more representative of the country at large. That was nice to find.
3) what are the cons for joining?
It differs as a non-deployable medical student/resident vs. deployable attending.

As medical student and resident, you need to come to terms with the fact that you are releasing a part of the total ownership you've had over your entire life. There are things you now "ask" rather than "do," which is a culture shift that can be uncomfortable. I think it's somewhat analogous to getting married, in that regard.

If you have any tendencies to experiment with drugs, you need to come to terms with the fact that that is now over. The Army will come down on you like the wrath of God and it can be a career-ender on your civilian side as well. If you still want to toy with drugs of any kind other than ETOH and tobacco, do not join.

You also need to realistic about your time and be prepared to devote one weekend every month. Do not visualize Flexi-Training as meaning you will drill once every quarter; visualize it as meaning that you will drill every month but you have a safety net for exceptions. Some of the application of drill and Flexi-Training may vary by location, and many places are very loose about drill, but the rules are federal. One change in command and your world may change. Moving for residency can mean moving from an essentially no-drill state to one in which you're expected to show up in PT gear at 0600 first Saturday of the month. So be prepared to make that commitment or don't join.

For beyond residency, the biggest con of Guard service that I had to come to terms with was the fact that I will be limiting my professional opportunities for as long as I'm in the Guard. I can't start a solo practice, obviously. I can not, in good conscience, join a small private practice, as a deployment would be crippling to my colleagues. I'll need to limit myself to larger employers due to deployments. That's a bother to me, but I've decided to see how it goes and if I find it too professionally distasteful, I can resign after a few years of service as an attending.

I think the decision to join the Guard really boils down to whether or not you're ready to be a soldier. Forget the programs, forget the Flexi-Training, forget the rest of it. Ask yourself: Am I ready to be a soldier? If you're not, and the occasional sacrifices, discomfort, and inconveniences that it entails, joining the Army in any context has the potential to be a decision you'll have great regret about. If you are ready to be a soldier, you'll be making a very small sacrifice in comparison to most of your fellow soldiers and your ultimate goal will be to keep these men and women healthy. If that isn't something that would make you proud, don't join.
 
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really helpful post.

i had another question revolving the guard - as i'm filling out my application, i was wondering if i wanted to take a research year out (say, between m2 and m3) would i still be able to drill without the possibility of being deployed?

how do residency directors view serving in the national guard?

thanks for the posts

I've been in the Guard about 2-1/2 years. I'm currently in transition, about to start my first year of residency.

I have micro-regrets, but not macro-regrets. By this I mean that there are days I wish I hadn't joined, but never weeks I wish I hadn't or months I wish I hadn't.

There are some weekends that I just don't want to drill. With Flexi-Training, if I have a real academic conflict, I don't drill. But more often there's just something really cool happening (ski trip, buddy in town, etc.) that I'd much rather do than drill. These are micro-regrets.

But overall it hasn't been a big conflict with medical school. Many medical students have absolutely no conflicts with medical school and can devote everything they have to it. The Guard is a small conflict. Less a conflict than a marriage and much less a conflict than a child, but more a conflict than intramural volleyball or an addiction to Game of Thrones.

So no overall regrets, but, sure, there are times that I'd rather not drill. It will be interesting to see if my perspective changes as I start residency. In a few weeks. Gulp. Because I'll be an actual physician, which gives a bit more possibility for responsibility and an actual assignment in the Guard. The Flexi- part of Flexi-training may diminish.

That I really don't like the beret...

No, seriously, I did a lot of research into my decision to join and made sure I was at peace with it. I read a lot of this forum (this thread was particularly helpful) and contacted individual Guardsmen who were very patient in answering my million and one questions. So there were no big surprises along the way.

I suppose the only thing I wished I'd known before joining (and it wouldn't have affected my decision any) is that dealing with the Army on all things administrative requires a lot of patience. There is a lot of check boxes to be hit and online training to do and "urgent" requirements to get dental clearance within five days and the like. These can be aggravating, but it's the price you pay. There are similar frustrations dealing with any big bureaucracy, but the Army is different in that these are not requests, they are requirements.

I suppose another thing I'd wished I'd known, just for comfort's sake, is that the Army Medical Corps is a lot more diverse than I was expecting. I'm a non-traditional Guardsman in many ways. For one example, my political leanings are much more to the left than your average soldier. I was happily surprised to find that while the Army as a whole very much trends towards Republican and Christian (evangelical, at that), AMEDD is probably more representative of the country at large. That was nice to find.

It differs as a non-deployable medical student/resident vs. deployable attending.

As medical student and resident, you need to come to terms with the fact that you are releasing a part of the total ownership you've had over your entire life. There are things you now "ask" rather than "do," which is a culture shift that can be uncomfortable. I think it's somewhat analogous to getting married, in that regard.

If you have any tendencies to experiment with drugs, you need to come to terms with the fact that that is now over. The Army will come down on you like the wrath of God and it can be a career-ender on your civilian side as well. If you still want to toy with drugs of any kind other than ETOH and tobacco, do not join.

You also need to realistic about your time and be prepared to devote one weekend every month. Do not visualize Flexi-Training as meaning you will drill once every quarter; visualize it as meaning that you will drill every month but you have a safety net for exceptions. Some of the application of drill and Flexi-Training may vary by location, and many places are very loose about drill, but the rules are federal. One change in command and your world may change. Moving for residency can mean moving from an essentially no-drill state to one in which you're expected to show up in PT gear at 0600 first Saturday of the month. So be prepared to make that commitment or don't join.

For beyond residency, the biggest con of Guard service that I had to come to terms with was the fact that I will be limiting my professional opportunities for as long as I'm in the Guard. I can't start a solo practice, obviously. I can not, in good conscience, join a small private practice, as a deployment would be crippling to my colleagues. I'll need to limit myself to larger employers due to deployments. That's a bother to me, but I've decided to see how it goes and if I find it too professionally distasteful, I can resign after a few years of service as an attending.

I think the decision to join the Guard really boils down to whether or not you're ready to be a soldier. Forget the programs, forget the Flexi-Training, forget the rest of it. Ask yourself: Am I ready to be a soldier? If you're not, and the occasional sacrifices, discomfort, and inconveniences that it entails, joining the Army in any context has the potential to be a decision you'll have great regret about. If you are ready to be a soldier, you'll be making a very small sacrifice in comparison to most of your fellow soldiers and your ultimate goal will be to keep these men and women healthy. If that isn't something that would make you proud, don't join.
 
Just curious, how long ago did you send in your application?

My application hasn't been submitted. But I have everything put together for a final local review of my packet to be submitted to the national commissioning board except for passing a physical. It took me about 4 months to get to this point from my first contact with a recruiter.

Your individual mileage may vary, but my recruiter told me to expect 4-6 months for the whole application and boarding process. This of course assumes you can adapt to the 'hurry up and wait' approach. IE, do everything you have in front of you as quickly as you can. Then submit it; knowing that it might be a week or more before you hear about the next item on the list.
 
That was a really good post by the previous poster and I agree with most of it. However, remember that it is just one person’s experience with the Guard and experiences vary. The National Guard is extremely flexible and the experience is very customizable if you are informed of the options and know the right questions to ask.

If memory serves me, the previous poster is an ASR (recruiter), I am not and thus my experience has been very different. I dont drill at all, during medical school or residency (if I take STRAP). So the commitment is virtually nonexistent during school. I can volunteer (under certain circumstances) for certain things (Operation Lone Star, etc) if I have the inclination and time, but have no requirements. We are trying to develop something that would benefit both med students and the Guard, but it’s just talk at this point.

That being said I agree with most of what the previous poster said, except for maybe one thing.
The Guard is a small conflict. Less a conflict than a marriage and much less a conflict than a child, but more a conflict than intramural volleyball or an addiction to Game of Thrones.
I only point this out because as it reads, I feel it could deter certain students from pursuing the Guard further (I dont think this was the intent of the poster). First, the Guard conflict is variable. As I said, I have no drilling responsibilities at all. Second, I want to point out that people often talk about things they haven't experienced (especially if it’s different from the path they chose) as being harder, or negative, or wrong in some way. Coming from someone who is doing all four (National Guard, marriage, children, and medical school) I can tell you it is very doable and isn’t bad at all. In fact, I think I’m getting the better deal than my single classmates 🙂. It’s all about what you make of it, just like life. I was married for nearly a decade before coming to medical school so it was a very big change for us, but it’s all in what you make of it. The Guard can offer great opportunities and experiences to all students from all walks of life and all lifestyles. Don’t let your life interfere with your interest in the National Guard, the whole purpose is to fit around your life and allow you to serve.

Notdeadyet, please be careful about speaking so emphatic about things if you're uncertain. (😉)

So to answer your questions directly:
1) No regrets so far. My only regrets will be leaving my family during deployments, but the benefits far outweighs the regrets. As a side note, I will be volunteering for deployment if not deployed. Just so you understand my point here.

2) A few policy issues but nothing major. For instance, I went through the whole process thinking after I graduated I would be able to make use of the med school loan repayment program. I didn’t learn until afterwards that I would have re-up (if you will) to make use of it. Again, nothing earth shattering, but the reason I advocate for people being informed and asking specific questions of their recruiters. Sometimes they don’t realize people aren’t informed enough to really even know what questions to ask.

3) I think this is a very personal issue, one that varies for every student. Obviously the previous poster nailed the most obvious cons as far as control of your life, bureaucracy, etc. Honestly I personally believe there are very few “cons” aside from that aspect. This is one of the places I really advise people to speak with a Guard physician. One who has been through these processes and is now practicing medicine. They can give you insight from experience that no medical school student (or resident for that matter) can give you. And most are very straightforward telling you the pros and cons they have come across. This was a big part of making my decision. I have some friends who have been physicians in the military for life so it helped me a lot. However, most recruiters can get you in contact with a Guard physician if you ask.
 
7starmantis,

How are you getting your required 50 points for your year of service to count towards retirement if you do not drill? Are you receiving MDSSP? My state came out with a memo of clarification regarding the flexi policy which is very restrictive. They require you to drill in most cirumstances and you need prior approval (60 days) to be gone from a drill and require you to attend AT. Also your commander can take away your MDSSP if you are not "in good standing" in my state. I am envious of your states policy.
 
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I'm not really concerned with making these years count towards retirement. I have plenty of time until 60 🙂 I guess you could voluntarily drill and submit credit for drilling but I wont mess with any of that for now I dont think. Yes I'm MDSSP and so far its been great. I'm very new so I really haven't done much with the Guard although I've been involved with Operation Lone Star and some joint state stuff for years. I've been really impressed with how they have made things easy for med students. It the right way to go in my opinion, lock in some physicians who are happy to serve.
 
If folks are thinking of staying in until retirement, some keep those points in the back of their head to qualify for "good years." If you are in a command that utilizes Flexi-training or are in an essentially "no drill" command, there are other ways to make up those hours to qualify for a good year, if you're interested. Probably the most accessible (and useful) is doing it via distance education. The Army gives 1 retirement point for every 3 correspondence credit hours (to a max of 130 retirement points per year.

The most popular way to satisfy this is via Rosetta Stone. Everyone in the Guard has access to what looks like the full Rosetta Stone series in each language, available in an online edition. I've used it and haven't noticed a huge difference from the software version (which I've also used), other than an occasional lag here and there.

As an example, if you were to finish the first three levels of Spanish, you would have earned 32 retirement points. This plus the 15 retirement points you get for just being in active status in the Guard would have given you 47 points. Spend a few more hours in the next level of Rosetta Stone and you'd have a "good year" that qualifies for retirement. Doing 3 levels of Rosetta Stone (aside from being particularly useful for those in medicine) is not a hard thing to do and could be burned through in a couple of weekends if you were motivated (thought that probably isn't the best route to language acquisition).

So if folks are in no-drill states, there are other avenues to get qualifying retirement years if it's an interest. If folks are looking at staying in and wan their 4 years of med school and 3-7 years of residency to count, hitting good years without drilling is not a problem if you take the time.
 
If folks are thinking of staying in until retirement, some keep those points in the back of their head to qualify for "good years." If you are in a command that utilizes Flexi-training or are in an essentially "no drill" command, there are other ways to make up those hours to qualify for a good year, if you're interested. Probably the most accessible (and useful) is doing it via distance education. The Army gives 1 retirement point for every 3 correspondence credit hours (to a max of 130 retirement points per year.

The most popular way to satisfy this is via Rosetta Stone. Everyone in the Guard has access to what looks like the full Rosetta Stone series in each language, available in an online edition. I've used it and haven't noticed a huge difference from the software version (which I've also used), other than an occasional lag here and there.

As an example, if you were to finish the first three levels of Spanish, you would have earned 32 retirement points. This plus the 15 retirement points you get for just being in active status in the Guard would have given you 47 points. Spend a few more hours in the next level of Rosetta Stone and you'd have a "good year" that qualifies for retirement. Doing 3 levels of Rosetta Stone (aside from being particularly useful for those in medicine) is not a hard thing to do and could be burned through in a couple of weekends if you were motivated (thought that probably isn't the best route to language acquisition).

So if folks are in no-drill states, there are other avenues to get qualifying retirement years if it's an interest. If folks are looking at staying in and wan their 4 years of med school and 3-7 years of residency to count, hitting good years without drilling is not a problem if you take the time.

Wow, new info to me. Great to know. I was going to start working through Rosetta Stone to start picking up Spanish, but I may have to put it off until I get off ADSW. Or I guess I could just do it and then pick up another language later on...
 
Notdeadyet or anyone who is in the guard:

1) do you have any regrets and why?

2) is there anything you found out after joining that you wish you would have known before joining?

3) what are the cons for joining?

Thanks! I'm excited about it but being I just sent in my app I figure have a few more months (at least 2 I'm thinking) to think about it.

I'm running up on 18 months in the Guard and I'm entering MS3 year in a few weeks. I did ASR, so my experience is a bit different from others.

1) Na, no regrets. I'm constantly thankful for stumbling across the Guard. Few people think to consider it and even those that do often fail to realize the entire benefit package. There are occasions when I'm a bit inconvenienced by having to fit in some training or handle some paperwork, but it's negligible.

2) I did my research pretty well so no real surprises. It's a little hard to fully comprehend the impact of the bureaucracy until you're actually dealing with it. It's still been manageable and is probably even less of an issue for you're a typical Guard member not on AD orders.

3) The con is you have one more obligation to consider. It's not a huge deal, but it's still there. The reality is you've always got a boss. You've always got obligations and requirements based on your employment, life goals, family, etc. Loans, mortgages, employers, customers, children, etc all make sure you're never truly free to do whatever you want unless you're willing to make major sacrifices. The Guard just adds another one. I put it on par with having a food allergy. Most of the time it won't make a difference in your life, but it will always be that extra consideration you have to worry about.

Ultimately, I feel like the Guard is pretty straightforward. Assume the worst case (1 weekend a month, 2 weeks a year, and regular deployments once you finish residency) and I don't think you'll get hit with many negative surprises...
 
Where and how do you get all this info? Read: how can we find such extensive information (on everything) and not constantly ask you questions??
This sort of thing doesn't exist in any one place (at least that I know of). I've found that for most things related to the Army, the best route has been to figure out what you're looking for, search online for information, then validate it with the powers that be.

Take the retirement thing. For me, everyone I spoke to said to make sure every year is a good retirement year if you're even toying with the possibility of staying in to retirement (which makes sense as it could mean the difference of a lot of money, or being someone ready to retire and needing to work an extra 8 years in the Guard/Reserve because they didn't take the trouble to make good years early on).

A quick google search found the point system for retirement, several of which mentioned the accredited correspondence courses count for one point for each three credit hours earned. I verified this in-state and learned how to go about making sure I qualify as I take the courses.

This thread has been the one that I found the most good National Guard AMEDD information out there. It started out as mainly an ASR-specific thread, but morphed a long time ago to having great information about each of the physician benefits for Guardsmen. Throughout the course of this very long thread are great nuggets of information that you might not find otherwise.

The Guard has a lot of great benefits, but some are so miscellaneous that you won't find them in recruiting brochures or the like. I learned here first about the low interest loan given by USAA to newly commissioned officers. Or that we can put in for up to $2,500/year for conferences once we're MDs. Or that we can apply to do flight surgery as a fourth year elective. All sorts of things like that.

If you can think of specific questions you have about being a physician in the Guard, always feel free to post them here. Folks who frequent the thread will occasionally pop in and give you what you're looking for or at least point you in the right direction.
 
Wow, new info to me. Great to know. I was going to start working through Rosetta Stone to start picking up Spanish, but I may have to put it off until I get off ADSW. Or I guess I could just do it and then pick up another language later on...
Good thinking. I was blown away by the number of languages they have and figured Spanish would just be the one I'd start with. It's actually fun learning some of the obscure ones they offer, though I don't think I'll be conducting an H&P in Polish anytime soon.

You can also get the same 1 point per 3 hours ratio for a lot of the other courses offered via SkillPort. You just submit your ATRRS transcript to get the points.

By the way, love the being in the Guard analogy with a food allergy. Spot on.
 
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Ultimately, I feel like the Guard is pretty straightforward. Assume the worst case (1 weekend a month, 2 weeks a year, and regular deployments once you finish residency) and I don't think you'll get hit with many negative surprises...
Great advice, this ^^^.

Spend enough time speaking to folks serving in the military in some capacity in one form or another, be it in person, via email, or in forums, and you'll notice one trend very quickly: there are many unhappy, bitter, and resentful people.

And the big majority of these people feel this way because they took the decision too lightly and now have regrets. And unlike most regrets in life, the military isn't going to let you walk away just because you find the Army harder than you thought.

Like DeadCactus says, expect to do what you're agreeing to do by contract (one weekend per month, 2 weeks per year and a 90 day deployment every 18 months or so after residency if we're still at war) and if policy lets you off easy, delight in that fact. But don't be surprised or bitter when the Guard expects you to behave like a soldier. It's part of the job.

Do not join thinking that National Guard service is a walk in the park. It may be under a particular command, but with one new CO, that could radically change. And there's nothing more annoying to a multi-deployment enlisted guy than hearing about someone making 10 times what he does for far less work complaining about how attending drill just isn't convenient.
 
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Sorry, lepetit, I missed this somehow
i had another question revolving the guard - as i'm filling out my application, i was wondering if i wanted to take a research year out (say, between m2 and m3) would i still be able to drill without the possibility of being deployed?
Once you're on MDSSP orders, you're expected to progress along an MD degree. Any deviation from that would require the approval of your command. Someone I know was joining and he was concerned enough about not getting that approval that he didn't sign for MDSSP.

If you join as a medical student not in any particular program, there is also the option of going ING (Inactive National Guard) while you do your research year. This time would not count towards promotion, retirement, or time-in-grade, but it might allow you to pursue research that could be very necessary for a particular specialty (say, ortho, rads, derm, etc.).

how do residency directors view serving in the national guard?
It helps at some places and hurts at others.

National Guard service at the medical student level might help a weak application. In other words, if your application to residency is so bad that they can't find any involvement in programs or organizations that demonstrate leadership and responsibility, having the NG on your CV will help.

But if you have a good app already, it won't add that much. Program Directors have a fair amount of resume reading experience, and there's not much you can do to buff up the fact that your military experience is largely training and administrative, with some small support roles thrown in (Note: prior military experience consisting of deployments and wartime experience is a whole different animal).

The main impact your National Guard service seems to have depends on the politics and leanings of individual Program Directors.

It can help if your PD happens to be pro-Army, either through past service, affiliations by proxy, or patriotism. I had one that was interested in hearing my experiences, as he was ex-Army HPSP.

It can hurt you if your PD is anti-Army. Some PDs are unhappy with students with NG/Reserve obligations because folks have come in as reisdents with commitments and not being in a non-deployable slot and they got pulled from the program. This irritates PDs to no end. So this might have happened to your PD or (more likely) he's heard of it happening and is scared of the same thing happening with you. If this is a concern, it will outweigh the fact that his son goes to West Point or such. Losing a resident unexpectedly then being required by law to take him back later is a really big deal to PDs..

There is a checkbox you're obligated to check on ERAS asking if you are serving in the military in a Reserve capacity. There is also an explanation field. In my explanation field, I very briefly mentioned Flexi-Training and the non-deployability of my role in the NG. I hoped that educated folks.

Personally, my National Guard service was more a liability than an asset. It didn't make up for my sub-standard board scores and I had plenty of other experiences on my app so that the NG wasn't needed to show maturity, leadership, etc. The vast majority of interviewers didn't touch on it at all. For some this may have been their being gun-shy about broaching military service for fear of being slapped with discrimination. It was more likely just the fact that it wasn't my most interesting extra-curricular and interview time is short. I did have one PD specifically ask about my deployability and express concern about my leaving her in the lurch. I have a hunch she was one who vocalized her concerns but there may have been others who had them.

Sorry for not having a better answer. Your mileage may vary. Being in the National Guard will help you at some places and hurt you at others. It will most likely be a crapshoot depending on which PDs you end up speaking with.
 
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Ok few more questions:

1. (dumb question) are med students paid to drill?
2. Do we have to do the two weeks a year training? Is that part of the flexi program?
3. If i take MDDSP the last two years of school = 4 years

i do a 4 year residency and only take STRAP the last two years (so i can get HPLRP during residency) - so i burned off two years of MDDSP but do the two years of strap then make my mddsp into 2 -> 1 or is that only if i take it the whole time?

so after residency do i owe 2 years MDDSP and 2 years STRAP or do i owe none for MDDSP? just a long shot but curious -


thanks again
 
Ok few more questions:

1. (dumb question) are med students paid to drill?
2. Do we have to do the two weeks a year training? Is that part of the flexi program?
3. Pending

Yes, medical students are paid to drill if they aren't already receiving a salary via something like ASR. I believe it starts at about $90 per drill with the typical drilling weekend consisting of 4 drills. The amount steadily increases with rank and time in service.

Not sure about how the two weeks are being handled in reality, so I'll defer to someone who's drilling. I haven't heard of it being a major issue though...
 
Ok few more questions:

1. (dumb question) are med students paid to drill?
2. Do we have to do the two weeks a year training? Is that part of the flexi program?
3. If i take MDDSP the last two years of school = 4 years

i do a 4 year residency and only take STRAP the last two years (so i can get HPLRP during residency) - so i burned off two years of MDDSP but do the two years of strap then make my mddsp into 2 -> 1 or is that only if i take it the whole time?

so after residency do i owe 2 years MDDSP and 2 years STRAP or do i owe none for MDDSP? just a long shot but curious -


thanks again

I was told everyone is expected to make Annual Training at least every other year, unless you're doing other training (BOLC, for example).

I think you can only pay off MDSSP 1:1 if you take it straight through from the end of medical school into residency.
 
For the drill pay, you can check out calculators like this one to find out what you'll earn based on rank and time-in-service.
If i take MDDSP the last two years of school = 4 years

i do a 4 year residency and only take STRAP the last two years (so i can get HPLRP during residency) - so i burned off two years of MDDSP but do the two years of strap then make my mddsp into 2 -> 1 or is that only if i take it the whole time?

so after residency do i owe 2 years MDDSP and 2 years STRAP or do i owe none for MDDSP?
MDSSP and STRAP are both 2:1 payback. As TooMuchResearch mentioned, MDSSP should only be 1:1 if it's immediately followed by STRAP without a break in service.

For what you're proposing here:
  • You would owe 4 years for taking two years of MDSSP (MS III and MSIV)
  • You would owe an additional 4 years by doomg a 4 year residency, only taking STRAP for PGY III and PGY IV
  • You would payback 2 years of obligation in PGY I and PGY II
  • You would not payback anything while incurring more obligation during PGY III and PGY IV
  • You would owe a total of 6 years drilling post-residency. You could not continue to take HPLRP or Special Pay post-residency while you were paying back that 6 years obligation.
Make sense?
 
I was told everyone is expected to make Annual Training at least every other year, unless you're doing other training (BOLC, for example).
That's the case for residents as well, at least under current policy. There is the opportunity to fulfill that with training as well (such as with the Captain's Career Course).
 
I just received a PPT from my recruiter that states if you take MDSSP without STRAP then "MDSSP obligation will begin upon completion of residency." It says if you take MDSSP and then STRAP, your "MDSSP obligation will begin immediately upon graduation from medical school"

I'm confused now - I was under the impression that your MDSSP obligation began following graduation from medical school (i.e. you can take it the last 2 years and not have an increase in your obligation). I was going to sign at the beginning of 2nd year and take 2.5 years of MDSSP thereby owing 5 years (which is how much time I'd have left in my contract anyway), it's not worth it at all if I'd owe an additional 5 years after residency completion.
 
I just received a PPT from my recruiter that states if you take MDSSP without STRAP then "MDSSP obligation will begin upon completion of residency." It says if you take MDSSP and then STRAP, your "MDSSP obligation will begin immediately upon graduation from medical school"

I'm confused now - I was under the impression that your MDSSP obligation began following graduation from medical school (i.e. you can take it the last 2 years and not have an increase in your obligation). I was going to sign at the beginning of 2nd year and take 2.5 years of MDSSP thereby owing 5 years (which is how much time I'd have left in my contract anyway), it's not worth it at all if I'd owe an additional 5 years after residency completion.

Good question.. Ok so I just briefly read FY11 AMEDD Officer policy memo and this is what I found:

Page 10 item 9c: MDSSP... this obligation period will be satisfied immediately following program completion ; which is residency for medical students.. Unless the individual elects to enter into the STRAP program for residency in an eligible specialty. In that event, the original MDSSP contract will be amended. Please see ... guidance in paragraph 10.

Page 12 item 10c: in the case of an MDSSP participant who enters into a training program not designated... as a specialty critically needed by the Army in wartime OR who enters into a training program that is critically short but declines to contract for STRAP, the obligation incurred under the MDSSP agreement begins upon completion of the residency and/or fellowship.

Don't these seem to contradict?
 
Interesting change in language. Electing to take only MDSSP for four years w/out STRAP now keeps you in for several extra years over previous policy.

Will notdeadyet or one of the other thread old-timers please comment on how these policy changes usually shake out for those who signed contracts just prior to the change? If, for example, one had a signed contract with dates consistent with the previous policy, would that contract be honored...or amended? Also, is there a proper, non-internet forum contact for questions like this?

For your trouble, a change listed on page 7 that is closer to affecting you: Special pay amounts now vary based on whether you sign up for 1, 2, or 3 years.

http://scarngmedical.com/images/IncentivePrograms.pdf
 

Wow I wish my guard had a website with all the info in one organized place like this site!

Also, recently 1starmamtis (if that's his name) was saying that med students are only not deployable in his state if they take mdssp etc. The language in this policy memo does seem to imply that... It mentions those in mdssp and strap are protected from deployment specifically.
 
Are residents eligible for the $2,500 CME credit each year while doing STRAP?
 
So STRAP and HPLRP is only available to certain needed specialties? For example ENT is not on the list so therefore no STRAP/HPLRP?
Only certain specialties are eligible for STRAP and HPLRP. This is less restrictive than it sounds, as almost all specialties are eligible under the 62B MOS (Field Surgeon).

This is why recruiters ask (or should ask) about your career plans. If you are going into a small handful of specialties that the Guard doesn't use and doesn't allow to function as 62B (radiologists, pathologists, and anesthesiologists are the ones that most often come up), you will most likely be transferring to the Army Reserve at some point in residency.

ENT is a specialty that is eligible for 62B. Meaning, if you became an ENT and wanted to stay in the Guard, you'd have to function as a Field Surgeon (or Flight Surgeon). If you wouldn't find that fulfilling and wanted to actually work as an ENT for the Army, you'd need to switch to the Army Reserve.

Make sense?
 
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