Ranking

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lillytwig

lillytwig

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what are, let's say, the top 10 residency programs in the united states for a PM&S-36?
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lillytwig said:
what are, let's say, the top 10 residency programs in the united states for a PM&S-36?
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What is with the rankings?

Residence are like shoes; everyone thinks that this brand is best. But in the end, they are all about equal. Yes, some residencies open more doors b/c they have very successful alumni, but the CPME would not approve a residency if it didn't meet the needs of the students. Don't get caught up in someones opinion of what is best. We have a student here at CPMS that is very unhappy at his/her residence b/c they choose "one of the best by reputation" not one of the best for them. I'm sure this is true at every school.
 
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Dr_Feelgood said:
What is with the rankings?

Residence are like shoes; everyone thinks that this brand is best. But in the end, they are all about equal. Yes, some residencies open more doors b/c they have very successful alumni, but the CPME would not approve a residency if it didn't meet the needs of the students. Don't get caught up in someones opinion of what is best. We have a student here at CPMS that is very unhappy at his/her residence b/c they choose "one of the best by reputation" not one of the best for them. I'm sure this is true at every school.
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Well said Dr. Feelgood. It is tough to rank residency programs since different residency programs will have different focus. As Dr. Feelgood said, one needs to find a residency program that would best fit the needs of the student.
 
Ok, specialty wise what are the better residencies if you want to specialize in foot surgery. I'm also interested in diabetic foot care? I will seriously move anywhere to go to a good residency.
 
molldoll2010dpm said:
Ok, specialty wise what are the better residencies if you want to specialize in foot surgery. I'm also interested in diabetic foot care? I will seriously move anywhere to go to a good residency.
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By the time you apply for residency training, all of the residency programs will either be a PM&S-24 or PM&S-36. Hence, all programs should technically offer foot surgery training. PM&S-36 programs will train the residents in both forefoot surgery and reconstructive rearfoot surgery. Whereas, PM&S-24 programs will be focus on forefoot surgery, but the residents in these programs may be exposed to reconstructive rearfoot surgery. In general, you will probably be exposed to diabetic foot care in majority of the residency training programs. If you are interested in Diabetic Limb Salvage, you might want to consider programs such as University of Texas at San Antonio and West Penn.

You need to keep in mind that residency programs are constantly evolving. By the time you apply, different residency programs may offer diabetic limb salvage training.
 
Dr_Feelgood said:
What is with the rankings?

Residence are like shoes; everyone thinks that this brand is best. But in the end, they are all about equal. Yes, some residencies open more doors b/c they have very successful alumni, but the CPME would not approve a residency if it didn't meet the needs of the students. Don't get caught up in someones opinion of what is best. We have a student here at CPMS that is very unhappy at his/her residence b/c they choose "one of the best by reputation" not one of the best for them. I'm sure this is true at every school.
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yeah, sorry. molldoll said it better. "ranking" was a poor word choice. in other post, i have seen things like "the top 20% of a class usually get the residency they want". it made sense that those residency spots are the most sought after since the TOP 20% chose them, and naturally, the spots carried some signification of excellence, usually a numerical assignment, 1 being the "best". i geuss not in this case?? ok, ill quit being a smart ass. :D
all we need to do is use our 4th year as an exploratory period of sort, and hope to get into the one we like the best. is it just that?? i geuss what i am not understanding is how you choose a residency. it would make sense to chose the residency that would open the most doors, right?
 
dpmgrad said:
By the time you apply for residency training, all of the residency programs will either be a PM&S-24 or PM&S-36. Hence, all programs should technically offer foot surgery training. PM&S-36 programs will train the residents in both forefoot surgery and reconstructive rearfoot surgery. Whereas, PM&S-24 programs will be focus on forefoot surgery, but the residents in these programs may be exposed to reconstructive rearfoot surgery. In general, you will probably be exposed to diabetic foot care in majority of the residency training programs. If you are interested in Diabetic Limb Salvage, you might want to consider programs such as University of Texas at San Antonio and West Penn.

You need to keep in mind that residency programs are constantly evolving. By the time you apply, different residency programs may offer diabetic limb salvage training.
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Thanks so much for the info!!!
 
dpmgrad said:
By the time you apply for residency training, all of the residency programs will either be a PM&S-24 or PM&S-36. Hence, all programs should technically offer foot surgery training. PM&S-36 programs will train the residents in both forefoot surgery and reconstructive rearfoot surgery. Whereas, PM&S-24 programs will be focus on forefoot surgery, but the residents in these programs may be exposed to reconstructive rearfoot surgery. In general, you will probably be exposed to diabetic foot care in majority of the residency training programs. If you are interested in Diabetic Limb Salvage, you might want to consider programs such as University of Texas at San Antonio and West Penn.

You need to keep in mind that residency programs are constantly evolving. By the time you apply, different residency programs may offer diabetic limb salvage training.
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Cool, I shadowed the two DPMs that run the diabetic program at San Antonio. Even met a few Temple students there who were spending a month working at the Texas Diabetes Institute--kind of like an extended interview.

The third years at Temple get to see several residency programs. How does it work at other schools?
 
Catayst said:
Cool, I shadowed the two DPMs that run the diabetic program at San Antonio. Even met a few Temple students there who were spending a month working at the Texas Diabetes Institute--kind of like an extended interview.

The third years at Temple get to see several residency programs. How does it work at other schools?
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Your third year in Des Moines is spent in the on-campus clinic and at Broadlawns hospital which does have a residency program. CPMS students visit programs in their 4th year and have no obligation work in a clinic associated w/ the school. Therefore, you could see up to 7 programs before CRIP. (You must spend 4 months at a core rotation and 1 month in private practice, therefore you have 7 months left to see any program you'd like)

At all of the schools you have opportunities to see residencies when ever. Most clinical affair deans (or their equivalent) have information on setting up visits to any program in the US. West Penn offered a free all expense paid visit this October; so there are lots of opportunities to visit programs.
 
The top ten in no particular order (considered by the majority of people):
-Inova Fairfax (Virginia)
-St Lukes Presby (Denver)
-Swedish (Seattle)
-Northlake (Tucker, Ga)
-West Penn (Pittsburg)
-Detroit Medical Center
-Kaiser Santa Clara (Ca)
-Kaiser Vallejo (Ca)
-U of Texas San Antonio
-JFK (Fl)

If you were to ask people "in the know", these are the programs that you would consistantly hear with possibly a few others.
 
jonwill said:
The top ten in no particular order (considered by the majority of people):
-Inova Fairfax (West Virginia)
-St Lukes Presby (Denver)
-Swedish (Seattle)
-Northlake (Tucker, Ga)
-West Penn (Pittsburg)
-Detroit Medical Center
-Kaiser Santa Clara (Ca)
-Kaiser Vallejo (Ca)
-U of Texas San Antonio
-JFK (Fl)

If you were to ask people "in the know", these are the programs that you would consistantly hear with possibly a few others.
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Actually Inova Fairfax is in Virginia (Northern Virginia) and not in West Virginia.
 
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dpmgrad said:
Actually Inova Fairfax is in Virginia (Northern Virginia) and not in West Virginia.
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I agree with jonwill. most people would consider those the top high power programs.
 
jonwill said:
The top ten in no particular order (considered by the majority of people):
-Inova Fairfax (Virginia)
-St Lukes Presby (Denver)
-Swedish (Seattle)
-Northlake (Tucker, Ga)
-West Penn (Pittsburg)
-Detroit Medical Center
-Kaiser Santa Clara (Ca)
-Kaiser Vallejo (Ca)
-U of Texas San Antonio
-JFK (Fl)

If you were to ask people "in the know", these are the programs that you would consistantly hear with possibly a few others.
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No Regions??? From what I've heard from externs and the local buzz, that is the new hot program.
 
Dr_Feelgood said:
No Regions??? From what I've heard from externs and the local buzz, that is the new hot program.
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Regions is popular at DMU and possibly Scholl. I think it is a good program but it is not a "big name" program.
 
In addition to your list, I've heard good things about the North Bay Kaiser Consortium in Cali (SF, OAK, Walnut Creek), Scripps Mercy in San Diego and Grant in Columbus, OH, these have been considered top 10 schools by the "in the know" people I've run into :oops:


jonwill said:
The top ten in no particular order (considered by the majority of people):
-Inova Fairfax (Virginia)
-St Lukes Presby (Denver)
-Swedish (Seattle)
-Northlake (Tucker, Ga)
-West Penn (Pittsburg)
-Detroit Medical Center
-Kaiser Santa Clara (Ca)
-Kaiser Vallejo (Ca)
-U of Texas San Antonio
-JFK (Fl)

If you were to ask people "in the know", these are the programs that you would consistantly hear with possibly a few others.
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PoddyTrained said:
In addition to your list, I've heard good things about the North Bay Kaiser Consortium in Cali (SF, OAK, Walnut Creek), Scripps Mercy in San Diego and Grant in Columbus, OH, these have been considered top 10 schools by the "in the know" people I've run into :oops:
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Agreed :thumbup:
 
What about the Yale and Harvard residencies? I know one should never count on a name only, but each of these institutions have a solid track record for making sure all of their programs excel. Would no one consider them some of the better residency programs? I've heard a little on here about the Yale residency but not much about the Harvard residency.

Thanks,

AZPOD Rocks
 
AZPOD Rocks said:
What about the Yale and Harvard residencies? I know one should never count on a name only, but each of these institutions have a solid track record for making sure all of their programs excel. Would no one consider them some of the better residency programs? I've heard a little on here about the Yale residency but not much about the Harvard residency.

Thanks,

AZPOD Rocks
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There are three Podiatric Surgical Residency Programs associated with Harvard. They are Massachusetts General Hospital, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, and Cambridge Hospital. Of the three, Cambridge Hospital is probably the better program. Of course, the other two hospitals are more well known.

As for the Yale residency program, the residency program is not solely based out of Yale New Haven Hospital. The residency program is based out of a consortium of Yale and Univ of Conn associated hospitals, which are Yale New Haven Hospital, DVA West Haven, St Raphaels Hospital, New Britain General Hospital. Of course, the residents in the program rotate through other surgery centers and local hospitals, as well.

Speaking of other prestigious hospitals, you would also consider the Podiatric Surgical residency programs at the Cleveland Clinic and Penn Presbyterian Medical Center (one of three University of Pennsylvania Health System core hospitals). Penn Presbyterian Medical Center is one of the few 4 year Podiatric Surgical Residency Programs in the country.
 
dpmgrad said:
There are three Podiatric Surgical Residency Programs associated with Harvard. They are Massachusetts General Hospital, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, and Cambridge Hospital. Of the three, Cambridge Hospital is probably the better program. Of course, the other two hospitals are more well known.

As for the Yale residency program, the residency program is not solely based out of Yale New Haven Hospital. The residency program is based out of a consortium of Yale and Univ of Conn associated hospitals, which are Yale New Haven Hospital, DVA West Haven, St Raphaels Hospital, New Britain General Hospital. Of course, the residents in the program rotate through other surgery centers and local hospitals, as well.

Speaking of other prestigious hospitals, you would also consider the Podiatric Surgical residency programs at the Cleveland Clinic and Penn Presbyterian Medical Center (one of three University of Pennsylvania Health System core hospitals). Penn Presbyterian Medical Center is one of the few 4 year Podiatric Surgical Residency Programs in the country.
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dpmgrad, Which other programs are 4 year? Any advantage to these, besides the obvious additonal training year cases?
 
capo said:
dpmgrad, Which other programs are 4 year? Any advantage to these, besides the obvious additonal training year cases?
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The are currently four 4 years Podiatric Surgical Residency Programs that I know of. They are Temple University Hospital (Philadelphia, PA) PSR-24+ program, Penn Presbyterian Medical Center (Philadelphia, PA) PM&S-36 (they recently converted) program, St. Barnabas Hospital (Bronx, NY) PM&S-36 program, and Wyckoff Heights Medical Center (Brooklyn, NY) PM&S-36 program. There is a rumor that Temple University Hospital program may be downgrading their program to a three year program with the fourth year being a fellowship year.

In my opinion, I do not see any advantage in doing an extra year residency training. If I wanted to do a total of 4 years of residency training for whatever reason, I would prefer doing a 3 year residency program and then do a 1 year fellowship in something that I would be interested in.
 
Thanks. I agree, it probably would be/look better to do the standard 3-year then do a fellowship, to zone-in on your area of expertise. What is your specific focus in podiatry, if you don't mind?
 
capo said:
Thanks. I agree, it probably would be/look better to do the standard 3-year then do a fellowship, to zone-in on your area of expertise. What is your specific focus in podiatry, if you don't mind?
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After completing the 3 years PM&S-36 residency program, I recently joined a Podiatry group. In the Podiatry group that I joined, I will be performing all aspects of forefoot to reconstructive rearfoot surgical procedures. I am currently scheduled to go for the AO/ASIF Orthopedic Trauma Fellowship in Europe in early 2007.
 
just putting in my 2 cents about the 4 year residency programs. you still only get a PM&S 36.

some say that they need 4 years to get the 3 year numbers. I do not know if that is true or not but once you get your numbers and put in 3 years - what does the 4th get you? I read something about teaching the other residents and if that excites you than go for it.

the programs that I have visited so far have all gotten their numbers by either the end of 1st year or beginning of 2nd year and the rest of time is spent practicing sx and not worrying about numbers.
 
OSU has a great program as well - its actually pretty interesting because they have a 3 spots for PM&S-36 and I believe 4 or 5 orthopoedic surgery spots - in addition to a foot and ankle fellowship. From my understanding, the facculty and staff are both DPM's and Foot and ankle orthopods - and they focus more on sports injuries/medicine and trauma.
 
I have heard good things about OSU especially the opportunities to do a F&A fellowship. Did you apply to Grant also?
 
I have heard good stuff about OSU as well. I was suposed to visit but it didn't work out. Maybe after interviews.

UMDNJ in Jersey is good.

I've heard good stuff about Kentucky as well.
 
Dr_Feelgood said:
I have heard good things about OSU especially the opportunities to do a F&A fellowship. Did you apply to Grant also?
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Hey Feelgood,

yes I'm also applying to Grant. Are you applying there as well?
 
krabmas said:
I have heard good stuff about OSU as well. I was suposed to visit but it didn't work out. Maybe after interviews.

UMDNJ in Jersey is good.

I've heard good stuff about Kentucky as well.
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I heard excellent things about UMDNJ - we had a residency fair at our school a month and a half ago and I spoke with a couple of their residents - the program is definately worth a visit. I don't know much about the Kentucky program though - as a matter of fact, this is the first time that I'm a positive feedback about tha program
 
jonwill said:
The students that have rotated at Grant this year have had great things to say about it.
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Hey jonwill,

How was rotating at DMC? I am actually very serious about that program but I haven't visited them yet. How was your experience there?
 
Podman said:
Hey jonwill,

How was rotating at DMC? I am actually very serious about that program but I haven't visited them yet. How was your experience there?
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Simply put, I cannot imagine a more well-rounded program. It was an awesome experience. I highly recommend a visit there. And who knows, we may meet up there. :)
 
i have to admit, all the programs i externed at i was very impressed with all aspects of the training and residents.

-Beth Israel (boston, MA)
-INOVA (northern virginia)
-Legacy Health / Kaiser (Portland,OR)
-PSL (Highlands - Denver,CO)

all of these were very similar in training and each had a little different flare to them. They were all reletively balanced programs, some more than others and all of them had great surgical cases and exposure.

keep an open mind when you are out there, but these programs also tend to be in the top 10-15 higher powered programs that is why i think they were all so impressive.
 
Isn't the Beth Israel residency a 24 month program?
 
it is a pms-36
 
Ski Bum said:
i have to admit, all the programs i externed at i was very impressed with all aspects of the training and residents.

-Beth Israel (boston, MA)
-INOVA (northern virginia)
-Legacy Health / Kaiser (Portland,OR)
-PSL (Highlands - Denver,CO)

all of these were very similar in training and each had a little different flare to them. They were all reletively balanced programs, some more than others and all of them had great surgical cases and exposure.

keep an open mind when you are out there, but these programs also tend to be in the top 10-15 higher powered programs that is why i think they were all so impressive.
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Beth Israel and Legacy didn't make my original list but I'd have to agree that they are both up there. Let's kick Swedish and UTSA out! :laugh:

Seriously, I haven't talked to anybody from our year that externed at Swedish that was very impressed with it. And UTSA is going through a transition right now but once Dr. Z gets things going, I think it will be good.
 
jonwill said:
Beth Israel and Legacy didn't make my original list but I'd have to agree that they are both up there. Let's kick Swedish and UTSA out! :laugh:

Seriously, I haven't talked to anybody from our year that externed at Swedish that was very impressed with it. And UTSA is going through a transition right now but once Dr. Z gets things going, I think it will be good.
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I would not write off Swedish. They had an amazing showing at ACFAS. The residents there won 1st and 3rd in the research manuscripts and they also won a few awards in the poster competition.

I have heard some of the comments on the externship not being that strenuous, but the residents at Broadlawns work a lot of hours does that make it a top 10 program? I rate my top ten a little different than others. I just always take extern comments with a grain of salt. You can't ague with the results. They put out some amazing physicians.

I think if we are dropping any of the programs on the list, I would drop DMC first; they are obviously heading in the wrong direction with their new residents. :laugh:
 
Dr_Feelgood said:
I would not write off Swedish. They had an amazing showing at ACFAS. The residents there won 1st and 3rd in the research manuscripts and they also won a few awards in the poster competition.

I have heard some of the comments on the externship not being that strenuous, but the residents at Broadlawns work a lot of hours does that make it a top 10 program? I rate my top ten a little different than others. I just always take extern comments with a grain of salt. You can't ague with the results. They put out some amazing physicians.

I think if we are dropping any of the programs on the list, I would drop DMC first; they are obviously heading in the wrong direction with their new residents. :laugh:
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It really has nothing to do with hours worked or stress. A surgical residency lives and dies by its surgical training and diversity. That has been the complaint. I know that some great research comes out of Seattle. But according to many that have passed through there, surgical volume and diversity isn't what it used to be (and I'm not sure why). You'll have to go check it out.

Yea, in the past, Swedish has put out some amazing physicians. So has Kern! :laugh:

As for DMC, the Renaissance has begun!
 
If we are basing ranking on the new crop of residents then INOVA has just moved to the top of the list. :D
 
krabmas said:
If we are basing ranking on the new crop of residents then INOVA has just moved to the top of the list. :D
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Yeah, those 2 DMUer's will really bring the standard up there. :laugh: :laugh: :thumbup:
 
Jonwill-

Enlighten me on why you think Swedish isn't a good program anymore or PM your thoughts if you don't mind. That sort of depresses me because that's one of my top choices right now.

Dens
 
Krabmas,

I think that I may know the person who might be joining you at INOVA from Scholl. If it is the same person, she is actually a very nice and pleasant person.
 
dpmgrad said:
Krabmas,

I think that I may know the person who might be joining you at INOVA from Scholl. If it is the same person, she is actually a very nice and pleasant person.
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The person from scholl is a he. I know his name but I have never met him. I have heard only good things about him. Like he is super smart and reads all the time.
 
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