Allopathic & Osteopathic poll : Where are you applying?

I considered applying to osteopathic schools, but . . . [post your reasons.]


I am Canadian and there's a LOT of confusing information out there in terms of DO's rights for practice here. I have also had a Canadian DO student explicitly tell me "if you don't want problems, you're better off going with the Caribbean than DO" and saying he regrets going DO due to issues with returning to Canada, so that kind of sealed the deal for me, and I decided not to apply.

bth7 said:

That's too bad. However, I'd be cautious about letting one med students experience dictate your decision. Their may be others out there who haven't had a problem.

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There's not a whole lot of Canadians in DO schools, he's the only one I've ever found - which is probably indicative of some things, too. We also don't really have DOs in Canada (I think there's either one or two in Ontario, and that's it), so meeting LOR requirements from a DO is very difficult, because it means that you have to go down to the States to shadow. True, most Canadians live within 200 miles of the US border, and for folks in Vancouver or Toronto it may not be a huge issue, but for people like me who live along rural areas of the US, it's a problem. I wouldn't be surprised if I had to drive 1000 miles to find a DO around here.

I plan on applying allo my first time though the app process, and if I don't get in anywhere, the next app process I will do both allo and DO. Should that fail, the next app cycle it's Caribbean for me

Only allopathic schools.

The med school I will be going to is allopathic.

Mayday said:

I plan on applying allo my first time though the app process, and if I don't get in anywhere, the next app process I will do both allo and DO. Should that fail, the next app cycle it's Caribbean for me

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Ditto.

bth7 said:

Following the recent discussion in another thread, I thought this poll would be interesting.

Let's try our best to keep this discussion civil. I know it can be done. (Don't fan a flame, just let it burn out.)



Original Thread: What is allopathic medicine?

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With all due respect...You continuously bring these DO oriented themes into the PRE-ALLOPATHIC forum. It's not appropriate. There is a pre-osteopathic forum for a reason.

I thought about osteopathic schools, until I heard that a lot of them get patronized during their residencies and afterwards. I really think that's wrong, esp. since DO is essentially the same curriculum as MD, but I also know I wouldn't want to be victim to that kind of treatment. So only applying to allopathic.

abeytt03 said:

With all due respect...You continuously bring these DO oriented themes into the PRE-ALLOPATHIC forum. It's not appropriate. There is a pre-osteopathic forum for a reason.

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Agreed

abeytt03 said:

With all due respect...You continuously bring these DO oriented themes into the PRE-ALLOPATHIC forum. It's not appropriate. There is a pre-osteopathic forum for a reason.

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im pretty sure this thread is about osteo and allo

I didn't consider DO until recently because I never knew any DOs and didn't even know that they existed until I was in college.

I chose to pursue MD only, though, because I don't plan on staying in the States forever. Sooner or later I want to live somewhere else and the opportunities for DOs anywhere but in the United States is far more limited.

I thought about osteopathic because of the holistic approach and non-competitive school atmosphere, but then the interviews started rolling in for my allo apps. I just sort of abandoned the idea at that point.

bth7 said:

Any particular reason you abandoned it? The extra work? It is a lot of time and money dealing with many applications.

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didn't want to do AAOMCAS(sp?). AMCAS was bad enough. Plus, I didn't know a lot about the schools and didn't want to pay more secondary fees.

it was a lot more work when it seems likely that i will get in allopathic.

i've got 7 interviews and i would like to think that i can get an acceptance at one school at the very least.

I thought about applying, but...

I sorta nixed Osteopath schools a few months ago. I had always considered applying to osteopathic school, there's one in my hometown, actually, and always had good experiences when going to a DO. (I think maybe because the C of OM in my state produces better Primary Care docs than the MD S of M, which has even been admitted by people I've meet in the administration of the S of M).

However, the in state DO school has really turned me off- I've heard stories suggesting they aren't well connected to the community, I've heard bad things about the clerkships and about some of the other facilities. The other DO school I was considering is MSU, but the price was prohibitive.

No other school has really enticed me to even consider them, they're simply far away from where I live and not well known.

My choices may not be well informed, but there they are.

bth7 said:

Following the recent discussion in another thread, I thought this poll would be interesting.

Let's try our best to keep this discussion civil. I know it can be done. (Don't fan a flame, just let it burn out.)



Original Thread: What is allopathic medicine?

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bth7, I like you. I really do. I think it's great that you're trying to educate people about osteopathic medicine and clear up a lot of misconceptions. Not to mention that you were partly responsible for one of my favorite SDN moments in your last thread:

abeytt03: you just went to DO school because you had crappy stats.
bth7: I got a 37 on the MCAT
abeytt03: Liar!
bth7: here's a copy of my score report
abeytt03: grumble, grumble...

But I digress. I think that a poll like this isn't really appropriate in pre-allo. Most of the people who have designated themselves as pre-allo are either applying exclusively to MD or using DO as a backup. If you're looking a thoughtful, civil discussion on the merits of DO education, you're asking the wrong crowd.

I looked into both. Ended up only applying to allopathic schools because all but one of the DO programs on my list would have [potentially] required me to relocate for the clinical years.

That one extra round of uprooting the family wasn't something I was willing to do to two young kids. If I were fresh out of college, single, and didn't have children, I might have applied to both MD and DO schools.

bth7

I support the posting of this poll, and its place in Pre-Allo

I'm simply curious (like you, maybe?) how many of the Allo folks are considering DO, or why they chose not to consider it.

I was similarly curious why most people do apply to DO school, hence my poll in that forum. I think people's perceptions and motivations are interesting, simply because perceptions and motivation of its students will probably have a lot to do with the future of Osteopathic education.

Why can't you guys stay in your own forum.

MWillie said:

Why can't you guys stay in your own forum.

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they want to prove that they're just as good as allopathic medicine.

which is part of the reason I don't really want to be a DO. MDs don't have to prove anything. I'd get too frustrated having to defend my degree.

I'll be applying to both, as well as schools in Ireland, Australia, the UK, Israel and as a last resort, the Carribean.

which is part of the reason I don't really want to be a DO. MDs don't have to prove anything. I'd get too frustrated having to defend my degree.

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Then leave the DO off your coat if it is that much of a concern. The vast majority of the DOs I've worked with say they seldom get asked and even why they do, they don't have to "defend" their degree.

they want to prove that they're just as good as allopathic medicine.

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I have to say I lost a lot of respect for you (I held a pretty good opinion of you) because of that comment.

bth7 said:

Location, location, location.

That seems to be the #1 factor for so many people.

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It certainly is for me.

The list of schools I'm applying to is based entirely on where my wife and I would be willing to raise a family for the next four years. That location-based list is a reasonable number and mix of programs for my stats, and I'll deal with deciding between the schools once two of them offer me acceptances!

bth7 said:

Thanks.

So far this thread has been perfectly reasonable. I didn't intend for this to be conversation on the merits of DO education. Just a poll.

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A conversation might not have been your original intent, but you do seem to be slipping into discussions with people about their motivations and assumptions. Totally civil and totally appropriate conversations, but conversations nonetheless. Just an observation.

armybound said:

they want to prove that they're just as good as allopathic medicine.

which is part of the reason I don't really want to be a DO. MDs don't have to prove anything. I'd get too frustrated having to defend my degree.

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But we all know all DO students actually got into both MD and DO schools, but decided the DO philosophy was superior and actually learn more than MD students because they have OMM. This means that not only is DO equal to MD, its in fact far superior.

DropkickMurphy said:

I have to say I lost a lot of respect for you (I held a pretty good opinion of you) because of that comment.

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How is that not what they're trying to do? Read any allo v osteo thread, the typical osteo response is "It's just as good as allo" or something similar.

We should all know that the curriculum is similar, but osteo often accepts people with lower stats. Hell, I should probably be applying osteo. But you'd be insane to think most osteo or pre-osteo people don't get all butthurt and throw a fit because they're treated as inferior by pre-allo students.

MWillie said:

But we all know all DO students actually got into both MD and DO schools, but decided the DO philosophy was superior and actually learn more than MD students because they have OMM. This means that not only is DO equal to MD, its in fact far superior.

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Those people are worse than the "MD or nothing" tools. Members of both groups deserve to be clubbed with steel rods and be left bleeding softly in the moonlight for being self-absorbed pricks only concerned with ego gratification.

Read any allo v osteo thread, the typical osteo response is "It's just as good as allo" or something similar.

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True.....but you said DOs, not students.

But you'd be insane to think most osteo or pre-osteo people don't get all butthurt and throw a fit because they're treated as inferior by pre-allo students.

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To quote one of JPHazelton's favorite refrains, "Who gives a crap what premeds think?". Once again, once you get away from the premed phase, it is basically not an issue. Only stupid old white MDs who will be gone soon and premeds give a crap.

DropkickMurphy said:

True.....but you said DOs, not students.



To quote one of JPHazelton's favorite refrains, "Who gives a crap what premeds think?". Once again, once you get away from the premed phase, it is basically not an issue. Only stupid old white MDs who will be gone soon and premeds give a crap.

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you're right, I meant to say pre-DO and pre-MD, not actual docs. No one I know of in the actual profession, including nurses, cares about DO/MD. But pre-meds get bitchy about it.

armybound said:

you're right, I meant to say pre-DO and pre-MD, not actual docs. No one I know of in the actual profession, including nurses, cares about DO/MD. But pre-meds get bitchy about it.

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Agreed.....I was hoping you just misspoke as appears to be the case.....my apologies.

MWillie said:

But we all know all DO students actually got into both MD and DO schools, but decided the DO philosophy was superior and actually learn more than MD students because they have OMM. This means that not only is DO equal to MD, its in fact far superior.

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See, now this is where it starts to get a little silly. If your argument is that many people choose DO over MD, I'd have to argue that much more often, it runs the other way. And if you're going to argue that DO is better than MD on the pre-allo board, you're just trolling for a flamewar. But hey, I'm not going to be the one to start it. In my eyes, MDs and DOs are equivalent, nothing less, nothing more. Your patients will call you the same thing, depending on how you treat them.

I think he was just being facetious with the "far superior" comment Gotmeds........

AMSA's the most worthless medical student organization there is. In fact if they say do something, I would do the opposite.

armybound said:

How is that not what they're trying to do? Read any allo v osteo thread, the typical osteo response is "It's just as good as allo" or something similar.

We should all know that the curriculum is similar, but osteo often accepts people with lower stats. Hell, I should probably be applying osteo. But you'd be insane to think most osteo or pre-osteo people don't get all butthurt and throw a fit because they're treated as inferior by pre-allo students.

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I'd like to see a pre-allo student treat me as 'inferior'...I'm applying to both types of schools, and will likely go to a DO school. I'm just a little jealous of some of the people on here who will go on to top-tier MD schools, but I don't think it will matter in the long run. I know that I will be great at whatever I choose to do in the future, regardless of the initials after my name. My standards are too high to worry about what other people think.

Applying to both, but I still have to finish my DO secondaries.

Two MD interviews so far (Pitt and Georgetown)! Boo-yah!

armybound said:

you're right, I meant to say pre-DO and pre-MD, not actual docs. No one I know of in the actual profession, including nurses, cares about DO/MD. But pre-meds get bitchy about it.

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Every doctor I know does care. There is a difference, albeit small. Every MD knows that DO schools are often comprised of those who had marinable stats. Being that they themselves went through the process, they appreciate the significance in the quality of an MD.

gotmeds? said:

bth7, I like you. I really do. I think it's great that you're trying to educate people about osteopathic medicine and clear up a lot of misconceptions. Not to mention that you were partly responsible for one of my favorite SDN moments in your last thread:

abeytt03: you just went to DO school because you had crappy stats.
bth7: I got a 37 on the MCAT
abeytt03: Liar!
bth7: here's a copy of my score report
abeytt03: grumble, grumble...

But I digress. I think that a poll like this isn't really appropriate in pre-allo. Most of the people who have designated themselves as pre-allo are either applying exclusively to MD or using DO as a backup. If you're looking a thoughtful, civil discussion on the merits of DO education, you're asking the wrong crowd.

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BTH7 is very clever, and I certainly can't take that away from him. This thread, however, is a subversive way of promoting osteopathy. This is the case for several other threads he has satrted. I have no problem with him taking the osteopathic route, especially given the harsh rejection he received from the allopathic world. What he must understand is the world will not change from his incessant promotion. The only purpose it serves in these threads is as a distraction and nuissance from actual pre-allopathic discussion. I urge him to become comfortable with where he is. Resist the temptation to publicly laud osteopathy as a defense mechanism, and face whatever insecurities he has directly with himself. Until that time, stick within the world you are engaged in (osteopathy).

I'll be applying to MD programs. I think DO is alright as well, but as far as international medicine is concerned I think I might have some logistics problems practicing overseas on mission work. The problem lies in the lack of an international definition for DO. I think many other countries use the title (or a similar one) to indicate someone who can perform basic, wholistic (alternative) procedures. Here in the US it's understood that Osteopathic medicine is just another branch of the medical doctor tree. I think in the near future this sort of issue will be resolved.

abeytt03 said:

Every doctor I know does care. There is a difference, albeit small. Every MD knows that DO schools are often comprised of those who had marinable stats. Being that they themselves went through the process, they appreciate the significance in the quality of an MD.

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I guess I know why my stats are marinable. Probably because I don't even know what that word means.

abeytt03 said:

BTH7 is very clever, and I certainly can't take that away from him. This thread, however, is a subversive way of promoting osteopathy. This is the case for several other threads he has satrted. I have no problem with him taking the osteopathic route, especially given the harsh rejection he received from the allopathic world. What he must understand is the world will not change from his incessant promotion. The only purpose it serves in these threads is as a distraction and nuissance from actual pre-allopathic discussion. I urge him to become comfortable with where he is. Resist the temptation to publicly laud osteopathy as a defense mechanism, and face whatever insecurities he has directly with himself. Until that time, stick within the world you are engaged in (osteopathy).

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You need to look at your own insecurities. If I was a psychologist, I'd say you're using medicine as a way to feel important and to obtain some sort of identity. But I'm not a psychologist.

walkoffhr said:

You need to look at your own insecurities. If I was a psychologist, I'd say you're using medicine as a way to feel important and to obtain some sort of identity. But I'm not a psychologist.

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Listen, my responses are about one thing. I want to counteract those who try and ignore an important difference between osteopathic school and allopathic school-the quality of the student accepted. This is particularly important when "we are the same" attitudes are expressed. Those attending MD school are justified in displaying pride and awareness of their distinctive title. They especially have this right in the pre-allopathic forum.

BTH7, the "crusader" who is "enlightening" people of the merits of osteopathic education, was himself a pre-med with intentions of attending allopathic school. He became the leader of this "enlightenment" only after facing rejection. Instead of developing a respect for the accepted applicant and ultimate MD, he chose to marginalize and degrade the MD title.

I agree that there are individual osteopathic doctors who are second to none. This does not, however, equate the degrees in a general sense whatsoever.