1st Gun Experience

[deleted480308]

Guys like PGG are experts with guns. Many of us are amateurs. This means carrying a gun with a bullet in the chamber without the safety on (or no safety at all) combined wth a light trigger means the owner must be extra careful about accidental discharge.

Revolvers have 12- 16 pound double action triggers. Even my custom revolvers have 8-10 pound double action triggers. The means is takes a good deal of force to cause the gun to fire a round. Other guns like the Glock 26 have 4-5 pound triggers which means just a light touch and the gun could go off.

Hence, I won't carry my semi auto with a bullet in the chamber unless it has a heavy double action trigger and a safety. Some think that is overkill as a double action trigger is heavy on most semi autos. Glocks don't have a safety or double action triggers.

I think many women (and men) find the simplicity, reliability and safety of a revolver to Make for a great carry weapon. It certainly works for my wife and me. Others choose a Small semi auto for the extra capacity it offers.

I don't carry my glock in condition 1 (chambered, no safety) for this reason. That catches me a lot of crap from some of the gun crowd, but it's my level of comfort

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I just picked myself up a Primary Weapons MK114 5.56/.223 piston driven AR15. Not from fear of a looming ban coming, I have wanted one for a long time now and no better excuse to buy one than Christmas.

For my CC I have a Springfield XDM 9mm compact. Although I do not carry it that often because it is too big for a CC. I also do not carry with one in the chamber for fear of it accidentally going off. BLADE, I notice in your above post you also do not like to have one chambered unless its double action with a heavy poll. What are your thought on the passive firing pin block on the Springfield's and also, i believe, in the Glocks.

Here is an article I found about semi auto pistols firing pin safety's advancements
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/ccm-columns/ballistic-basics/let-it-drop/

Springfield XDM is an awesome gun; it has a grip safety which must be compressed before the gun will fire. A very safe gun for concealed carry but a big big for my tastes.

The Glock does NOT have the grip safety but rather a trigger safety which in my opinion is no safety at all.

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[pgg]

Springfield XDM is an awesome gun; it has a grip safety which must be compressed before the gun will fire. A very safe gun for concealed carry but a big big for my tastes.

The Glock does NOT have the grip safety but rather a trigger safety which in my opinion is no safety at all.

I'm not a fan of grip safeties. They're fine in a range gun, but if I'm ever trusting my life to it, I don't want it to function only if I'm holding it just right.

I prefer to carry a single-action/double-action semiauto Sig P220 Carry with one in the chamber and the hammer down. It has no external safety. 10 pound DA pull, 4.4 SA.

Absolutely safe from negligent discharges, carried properly in a holster. If you carry Plaxico style with guns like that, all bets are off.

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[BLADEMDA]

I'm not a fan of grip safeties. They're fine in a range gun, but if I'm ever trusting my life to it, I don't want it to function only if I'm holding it just right.

I prefer to carry a single-action/double-action semiauto Sig P220 Carry with one in the chamber and the hammer down. It has no external safety. 10 pound DA pull, 4.4 SA.

Absolutely safe from negligent discharges, carried properly in a holster. If you carry Plaxico style with guns like that, all bets are off.

I know you own a Sig P220. I know how you carry it as well. For me, under the stress of actually carrying and firing my piece I'll stick with a revolver. No slide to pull and it goes BANG every time.

 

[pgg]

I know you own a Sig P220. I know how you carry it as well. For me, under the stress of actually carrying and firing my piece I'll stick with a revolver. No slide to pull and it goes BANG every time.

Nothing wrong with a revolver.

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[pie944]

Going to a gun show in early Jan, can you get good prices on bulk ammunition? Does anyone here do handloading/reloading? Is it difficult? Worth the time and effort to make ammunition?

Thanks.

 

[deleted480308]

Going to a gun show in early Jan, can you get good prices on bulk ammunition? Does anyone here do handloading/reloading? Is it difficult? Worth the time and effort to make ammunition?

Thanks.

The monetary value really depends on how much you shoot and if it's an expensive round. It absolutely takes time though. If you shoot 200rds of 9mm a month, don't bother. If you shoot 1000rds of .308 it could make sense

 

[usnavdoc]

Right now there is huge price gauging, especially at a gun show. Just know that going in.

 

[pgg]

Going to a gun show in early Jan, can you get good prices on bulk ammunition? Does anyone here do handloading/reloading? Is it difficult? Worth the time and effort to make ammunition?

Thanks.

Gun show ammo deals usually are not better than bulk online purchases even in normal times. Now, I bet the prices are jacked up.

One exception - vendors at gun shows often have factory reloaded ammo for sale in bulk packaging. Ie, some company reloaded once-fired brass with cheap components, dumped them loose into ammo cans, and sells them for 10-20% less than new ammo. It's fine for plinking ammo or silhouette shooting but it tends to not be very accurate. And you have a greater risk of problems when shooting someone else's reloads. I don't buy it. I've read too many horror anecdotes of "gun show reloads" blowing up or squibing or otherwise damaging guns.


I reload about 90% of what I shoot now. It is not hard, but it is time consuming, and you need every bit the focus and attention to detail as you do giving anesthesia. You're manufacturing explosives designed to go off 6" from your face. Mix up powders, double charge a case in moment of inattention, and you can damage your gun or hurt yourself.

Reloading probably won't save you money, but you'll shoot better quality ammo, and more of it, for the same you spend on factory ammo. You can start reloading for under $500 but its easy to spend thousands for this tool and that doodad that makes the process faster, easier, more accurate.

There's a bit of a learning curve to it, but nothing you can't pick up yourself with the help of one of many online reloading forums.

I started reloading in late 2009ish when I couldn't find .380 ammo anywhere at any price. It was reload or don't shoot at all. Over the last 4 years I've added every other caliber I shoot. The cost savings are most dramatic for match quality rifle ammo. If you buy in bulk and during sales you can cut the cost of pistol ammo quite a bit too.

But, here's the catch, we're in another full blown panic buy again, wouldn't surprise me if 1000s of other people are thinking about reloading again. In 2009 there was a run on components (primers, powders, bullets) and some things just couldn't be found.

Is it worth it? It was for me, but I shoot a lot, and the rifle ammo I load is better than expensive commercial match grade stuff - it's tuned to my specific guns, which matters at longer distances. If you just shoot a box of handgun ammo once a month, maybe just order 1000 or 2000 rounds online and stick it in a closet. It doesn't go bad, and you solve the same availability/shortage problem reloading addresses.

 

[deleted126335]

I just picked myself up a Primary Weapons MK114 5.56/.223 piston driven AR15. Not from fear of a looming ban coming, I have wanted one for a long time now and no better excuse to buy one than Christmas.

For my CC I have a Springfield XDM 9mm compact. Although I do not carry it that often because it is too big for a CC. I also do not carry with one in the chamber for fear of it accidentally going off. BLADE, I notice in your above post you also do not like to have one chambered unless its double action with a heavy poll. What are your thought on the passive firing pin block on the Springfield's and also, i believe, in the Glocks.

Here is an article I found about semi auto pistols firing pin safety's advancements
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/ccm-columns/ballistic-basics/let-it-drop/

Impostor. I suppose that imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.

 

[deleted480308]

Right now there is huge price gauging, especially at a gun show. Just know that going in.

speaking of price gouging....cheaperthandirt selling pmags for $59?!? crazy

 

[pgg]

speaking of price gouging....cheaperthandirt selling pmags for $59?!? crazy

Cheaperthandirt has never sold anything cheap, ever.


And to think I laughed at the guy on arfcom who bought 170 GI mags after the election to resell when the panic buying started again.

 

[periopdoc]

You also didn't think that buying AR's was a particularly good idea after the election.

They are already up two to three hundred per on the used market, literally could buy it at the LGS and sell it for a profit. The LGS aren't price gouging here, but they are limiting purchases of defensive ammo to 5 boxes per day and magazines to 2 per day. The shelves are bare of guns and ammo and there are a huge number of first time buyers getting into the market. NICS has been down multiple times every day this week.

Out of consideration for others sensitivities, and a desire to avoid infantile argumentation over our second amendment rights to semiautomatic weapons and standard capacity magazines, I have generally avoided this thread and avoided publicly discussing second amendment issues since the shooting, never fear. While the shooting has led me to re-examine my views (as I think it should), this re-examination did not result in a change in my viewpoint.

And IMHO, a MILITARY guy showing pictures of a good day on the range while preparing for a deployment is no more insensitive or reprehensible than a race car driver posting about a great lap time on the morning after multiple children die in a bus wreck. Completely unrelated.

My favorite part of your picture was that area of scorched and blasted dirt in front of the barrel, and of course the piles of brass. Sweet. Wish I could come in with a grain shovel to grab some of that brass.

At some point I will post some pics of recent acquisitions.


- pod

 

[sevoflurane]

Looking @ SCAR AR's too.

Any thoughts on them?

Also... is getting something under 16" barrel really worth it? Yeah, you can make it a bit more compact... but I've been told you can get a call at ANY time and be summoned for it to be inspected. Is it worth that hassle AND wait time?

I'm sure it's a matter of personal opinion.. but just asking. If you are going to get a supressor from the get go... It's a no brainer, I think (not sure how much accuracy you loose with a supressor).

What are MUSTS in your AR15? Removable front and rear sights, gas pistons, etc....?

 

[sevoflurane]

Is it pretty easy to switch from one barrel length to another on the fly @ the range... and still have everything tuned up for precision target shooting?

 

[countingdays]

Can you even find one to buy?

 

[sevoflurane]

Yes.

 

[pgg]

You also didn't think that buying AR's was a particularly good idea after the election.

Yeah, true ... but if I had to place a bet, I'd still put money on no meaningful gun control legislation making it through the House.

Though the panic buying is starting to annoy me. Today I was talking to my brother (who lives in a free state and is a co-trustee of our NFA gun trust) about putting a SBR lower through the ATF process (for a 6.8), and the local dealer/manufacturer we like is sold out.

My favorite part of your picture was that area of scorched and blasted dirt in front of the barrel, and of course the piles of brass. Sweet. Wish I could come in with a grain shovel to grab some of that brass.

It's a 50BMG reloader's dream ... coming soon to govliquidation.com or some other DRMO auction.

Which reminds me I forgot to reply to an earlier post...

pgg - how high above the ground is the muzzle, and was it angled toward the ground when firing? The effect the muzzle blast had on the dirt is crazy

Maybe 12-18" off the ground. Just a few inches above the wood edge to the firing position, which is why the wood started cooking. Mostly level. The range angles down for a couple hundred yards then back up a bit. Here's a better picture.

 

[pgg]

Looking @ SCAR AR's too.

Any thoughts on them?

No firsthand experience, but everyone I know who's shot one has liked them.

Also... is getting something under 16" barrel really worth it? Yeah, you can make it a bit more compact... but I've been told you can get a call at ANY time and be summoned for it to be inspected. Is it worth that hassle AND wait time?

The ATF will not check up on you. The only significant rights you surrender with a short barreled rifle is ease of transport across state lines (must notify ATF first) and you can't loan it to anyone outside your immediate presence. These aren't important issues to me but might be to others.

It's little more than a tax, paperwork hassle, and wait.

If it's your first NFA item, I would strongly recommend taking the extra initial step of setting up a NFA Trust and have the Trust 'own' the items. Advantages:
- anyone listed as a trustee can legally possess and use any of the items
- you can later add more people to the trust (eg, your kids when they reach adulthood) and a registered item can informally become that person's property without paying another $200 tax
- no need to get your local chief law enforcement officer to sign off on the tax stamp
- no fingerprinting step
There's no real disadvantage beyond a few hundred bucks to get it set up.

In my case the Trust has been invaluable since when the Navy moved me to an NFA-unfriendly state, I could keep (and expand) my collection at my brother's house.


To me the best benefit of a barrel under 16" is that a suppressor doesn't make it really long. The military likes 14.5" as a nice compromise between a) short enough for room clearing and in-and-out of vehicle work, and b) long enough for good velocity and terminal effects at range. Though they're still using the wrong ammo (M855) 10 years into this war so maybe the military's not such a great role model there. Anyway - I obviously don't need the room clearing and mounted vehicle patrol benefits, but having a 16" rifle AFTER putting the suppressor on is nice.

I'm sure it's a matter of personal opinion.. but just asking. If you are going to get a supressor from the get go... It's a no brainer, I think (not sure how much accuracy you loose with a supressor).

A good suppressor (either direct thread or on a good QD mount) does not lose any accuracy. You may have a small bit of point of impact shift, but it's repeatable and should be minimal provided your barrel was threaded by a competent person.

Just about all military snipers use suppressors now, part of that is to better stay hidden, but you can be assured they wouldn't use them at all if they affected accuracy.

Suppressors make many people shoot more accurately - the reduction in recoil and noise are good things. The only downsides to rifle suppressors are cost and legal hoops.

What are MUSTS in your AR15? Removable front and rear sights, gas pistons, etc....?

I think pistons on an AR are a solution looking for a problem. As for the other musts ... depends what you want it to do.

A free floated match barrel is a must for shooting 1/2" groups at 100y from a rest, not so much for hitting silhouettes off-hand.

You don't need iron sights at all if you're going to put a scope on it and have no need for it ever to be a defensive weapon.

Rails up front are pointless weight and expense if you don't put anything on them. Do you need to put a laser or light or other doodad up there? No? A plain handguard is fine, and more comfortable to grab with your off hand anyway.

My favorite gimmick for suppressed ARs is a PRI gasbuster charging handle because it reduces the amount of soot kicked backwards.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

And IMHO, a MILITARY guy showing pictures of a good day on the range while preparing for a deployment is no more insensitive or reprehensible than a race car driver posting about a great lap time on the morning after multiple children die in a bus wreck. Completely unrelated.

Weak analogy but your point is well taken. I am the resident silent but ardent left-wing gun control supporter commie pinko hippie type and I can assure you that no ill will was intended.

 

[periopdoc]

What are MUSTS in your AR15? Removable front and rear sights, gas pistons, etc....?

As PGG said, it really depends on what you want to do with it. The beauty of the platform is that whatever you buy, you can modify it later if your needs change.

My primary .223 AR-15 is a COLT 6920 SOCOM. It is cheap to shoot and so I use it as the platform for training to shoot my more expensive stuff. (I also have an M&P 15-22 for really cheap training, but it is not quite the same). My 6920 has a rail so I can attach gizmos on it when I want to, and a front sight base which doesn't really get in the way of optics but doesn't completely disappear like a true back up front sight. I have a removable carry handle for it as well as a backup iron sight. It is the true jack of all trades, master of none, although it is a pretty good jack. Sometimes one is not enough!

This fall, I decided to add a short barreled AR to the stable for several reasons, but the primary reason is the one PGG gave you... It isn't monstrously long with the supressor attached. The biggest drawback to going short is loss of muzzle velocity and bullet energy. With a round like the .223/5.56 that relies on velocity to do damage, and requires barrel length to generate velocity, this really limits how short you can go and still get reasonable terminal effectiveness from your load. That is where an alternative caliber, like the 300 AAC blackout really shines. My 8" 300 blackout will be numerically equivalent to about a 13" 223, but in terms of terminal effectiveness I suspect it is closer to a 16" 223 because it does not rely so heavily on velocity to do damage.

As long as you have a good lower, you can mount whatever upper you want to on it and you can always modify the upper to suit your needs. It truly is the Lego of guns.

Just be sure to get a good lower while you are allowed to, and get a bunch of magazines while you are at it.

- pod

 

[BLADEMDA]

Looking @ SCAR AR's too.

Any thoughts on them?

Also... is getting something under 16" barrel really worth it? Yeah, you can make it a bit more compact... but I've been told you can get a call at ANY time and be summoned for it to be inspected. Is it worth that hassle AND wait time?

I'm sure it's a matter of personal opinion.. but just asking. If you are going to get a supressor from the get go... It's a no brainer, I think (not sure how much accuracy you loose with a supressor).

What are MUSTS in your AR15? Removable front and rear sights, gas pistons, etc....?

That's one Bad Ass gun

 

[pgg]

There's something beautiful about a gun that has "pipe wrench" amongst its precision maintenance tools.

Stumbled on this thread via Fark tonight. Magnificent.

 

[countingdays]

The guns, mags, and cheap ammo are sold out everywhere I look locally and online. I guess gun shows and auctions are options, but I'd assume there's a lot of markup. I'm glad I stocked up weeks ago.

 

[countingdays]

Stumbled on this thread via Fark tonight. Magnificent.

Funny. Wish I knew how to do all that.

 

[doctor712]

And IMHO, a MILITARY guy showing pictures of a good day on the range while preparing for a deployment is no more insensitive or reprehensible than a race car driver posting about a great lap time on the morning after multiple children die in a bus wreck. Completely unrelated.
- pod

Fixed that for you POD:

"And IMHO, a MILITARY guy showing pictures of a good day on the range while preparing for a deployment is just as insensitive and reprehensible as, say, after a race car driver posts about a great lap time on the night that 20 of his fellow race-car drivers die on the racetrack during that race. Completely related."

D712

 

[loveoforganic2]

I don't expect to see a lot of non-organic chemists, like yourself, buying compounds, testing them, creating certain reactions (in their homes, of which they have no clue how to work through -- and even with an internet diagram, that's still some DANGEROUS JOO JOO) rather than just use a weapon. So i think your example is really moot. These people don't want to blow themselves up in basements, they want to make the news and THEN kill themselves. The easiest current way to accomplish that is buying assault rifles and using them. So, we're talking about guns, period. Not to, literally, build the wheel from scratch.

D712

High explosives made up ~2 words of my post. I appreciate that your entire reply was dedicated to that. First, some syntheses are safer than cooking meth (and that's fairly prevalent). Additionally, there are many stable explosives you can literally kick around.

That aside, how about mass murder by vehicle? Setting fire to a bar? Etc. etc.

And those studies, they were number of homicides, not number of murders, correct?

And IMHO, a MILITARY guy showing pictures of a good day on the range while preparing for a deployment is just as insensitive and reprehensible as, say, after a race car driver posts about a great lap time on the night that 20 of his fellow race-car drivers die on the racetrack during that race. Completely related

How is this a more accurate analogy exactly?

 

[doctor712]

High explosives made up ~2 words of my post. I appreciate that your entire reply was dedicated to that. First, some syntheses are safer than cooking meth (and that's fairly prevalent). Additionally, there are many stable explosives you can literally kick around.

That aside, how about mass murder by vehicle? Setting fire to a bar? Etc. etc.

And those studies, they were number of homicides, not number of murders, correct?



How is this a more accurate analogy exactly?

Orgo,

I see you like semantics, murders, homicides, here is a chart and its figure discussing murders. I hope these numbers are clearer.

Notice, along the lines with the new Harvard study I quoted above, and the other one too, how less AWs = less people being shot and killed.
See those BIG JUICY numbers on the bottom. They translate into the following = PGG has NO CLUE what he's talking about.
Whether it's Constitutional interpretation or AW numbers. Actually, it's even more sad than that. He knows VERY VERY well
that an AW is more deadly than a Glock. He just refuses to admit it.

Regardless, seems the NRA is about to speak today -- gee I wonder what they will say about the shootings. Actually, I read they are
going to surprise everyone with their statement today. Doesn't matter, the American public has FINALLY spoken. SIGNIFICANT changes
to gun laws are about to be put back on the table. I wonder if PGG can admit that... hahahaha.

D712

 

[jwk]

Orgo,

I see you like semantics, murders, homicides, here is a chart and its figure discussing murders. I hope these numbers are clearer.

Notice, along the lines with the new Harvard study I quoted above, and the other one too, how less AWs = less people being shot and killed.
See those BIG JUICY numbers on the bottom. They translate into the following = PGG has NO CLUE what he's talking about.
Whether it's Constitutional interpretation or AW numbers. Actually, it's even more sad than that. He knows VERY VERY well
that an AW is more deadly than a Glock. He just refuses to admit it.

Regardless, seems the NRA is about to speak today -- gee I wonder what they will say about the shootings. Actually, I read they are
going to surprise everyone with their statement today. Doesn't matter, the American public has FINALLY spoken. SIGNIFICANT changes
to gun laws are about to be put back on the table. I wonder if PGG can admit that... hahahaha.

D712

So at short range, which is what happened in the Connecticut classrooms, how is an "assault rifle" (which you have yet to define BTW) any more deadly than a Glock? I'm not a great shot, but at 10 feet, it doesn't really matter much.

Try and think outside the Harvard literature review box, stash your emotions, and use your head and some common sense. It's good practice - it comes in quite handy in the OR.

 

[sevoflurane]

Stumbled on this thread via Fark tonight. Magnificent.

That is some getto builiding there... pretty cool. Not bad @ 50 yds.

Have you seen this... I'm sure you have.

http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2012-07/working-assault-rifle-made-3-d-printer

http://hackaday.com/2012/07/26/3d-printed-ar-15-lower-works/

Those 3D printers are pretty impressive.

 

[loveoforganic2]

Orgo,

I see you like semantics, murders, homicides, here is a chart and its figure discussing murders. I hope these numbers are clearer.

Notice, along the lines with the new Harvard study I quoted above, and the other one too, how less AWs = less people being shot and killed.
See those BIG JUICY numbers on the bottom. They translate into the following = PGG has NO CLUE what he's talking about.
Whether it's Constitutional interpretation or AW numbers. Actually, it's even more sad than that. He knows VERY VERY well
that an AW is more deadly than a Glock. He just refuses to admit it.

Regardless, seems the NRA is about to speak today -- gee I wonder what they will say about the shootings. Actually, I read they are
going to surprise everyone with their statement today. Doesn't matter, the American public has FINALLY spoken. SIGNIFICANT changes
to gun laws are about to be put back on the table. I wonder if PGG can admit that... hahahaha.

D712

I hardly think drawing a distinction between self defense shootings and other homicides at a minimum (but also suicides and accidental deaths, to a lesser extent) is a semantic argument. If you think otherwise, you're kind of objectively a twit.

What's the source of your table? I don't like to take things at face value.

UPenn study doesn't seem to feel the evidence is nearly as compelling as you present it to be.

Gun homicides plummeted from approximately 16,300 in 1994 to 10,100 in
1999, a reduction of about 38% (see the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Uniform Crime

These figures are based on a supplemental analysis not contained in the published study. We thank
Darin Reedy for this analysis. Reports). Likewise, non-fatal, assaultive gunshot injuries treated in hospitals nationwide
declined one-third, from about 68,400 to under 46,400, between 1994 and 1998 (Gotsch
et al., 2001, pp. 23-24). Experts believe numerous factors contributed to the recent drop
in these and other crimes, including changing drug markets, a strong economy, better
policing, and higher incarceration rates, among others (Blumstein and Wallman, 2000).
Attributing the decline in gun murders and shootings to the AW-LCM ban is problematic,
however, considering that crimes with LCMs appear to have been steady or rising since
the ban.

[...]

Another potential indicator of ban effects is the percentage of gunfire incidents
resulting in fatal or non-fatal gunshot victimizations. If attacks with AWs and LCMs result
in more shots fired and victims hit than attacks with other guns and magazines, we might
expect a decline in crimes with AWs and LCMs to reduce the share of gunfire incidents
resulting in victims wounded or killed. Measured nationally with UCR and NCVS data,
this indicator was relatively stable at around 30% from 1992 to 1997, before rising to about
40% from 1998 through 2000 (Figure 9-4).
Along similar lines, multiple victim gun
homicides remained at relatively high levels through at least 1998, based on the national
average of victims killed per gun murder incident (Table 9-4, panel A).

Additionally, I feel it is less useful to discuss data regarding firearms crime in absence of discussion of the benefit that firearms present. No medical decision making focuses entirely on either risks or benefits of a given treatment option.

As far as rifle cartridges, yes, they're going to generally do more damage than a pistol caliber, but I don't think the difference at close range is that meaningful, where hit% is high for multiple shots. In Utoya, wide open areas, yes, within a school, somewhat negligible - see VT shooting, all w/9mm out a pistol. The CT shooting will very likely lead to gun control legislation, likely magazine capacity related, less likely another 1994 AWB-type deal. At any rate, I think these are mostly "feel good" measures. Pre-1994, there were 20+ million high capacity magazines in private possession. I expect the number is over 100 million now

 

[loveoforganic2]

That is some getto builiding there... pretty cool. Not bad @ 50 yds.

Have you seen this... I'm sure you have.

http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2012-07/working-assault-rifle-made-3-d-printer

http://hackaday.com/2012/07/26/3d-printed-ar-15-lower-works/

Those 3D printers are pretty impressive.

Someone tested it out on youtube recently. In .22, it held up pretty well. In .223, it lasted 5 shots. It's very cool technology though. With a different resin/powder combo, maybe it would be more effective

 

[deleted480308]

Someone tested it out on youtube recently. In .22, it held up pretty well. In .223, it lasted 5 shots. It's very cool technology though. With a different resin/powder combo, maybe it would be more effective

I'm completely amazed at the technology in this

 

[doctor712]

So at short range, which is what happened in the Connecticut classrooms, how is an "assault rifle" (which you have yet to define BTW) any more deadly than a Glock?

Easy: an assault rifle
a) when fully automatic or converted to fully automatic, shoots more bullets per second. In other words, more bullets fly out of the gun and kill innocent people (see my NRA thread postings.) Please put your gun collection aside and use some common sense.
When remaining semi-auto, like in Newtown, please see letters b through d.
b) has the capacity for magazines that hold more bullets, than a revolver or a 9mm, (last time I checked, a Glock cannot hold 100 bullets, and a Magnum holds very few, like 6/100 to be exact when compared to a drum in an AR-15). Logically, this gives the shooter more of a chance to empty the weapon and kill innocent kids, before having to STOP SHOOTING and RELOAD (which is when certain people can be disarmed).
c) I would argue that disarming someone of their AW is a LOT harder than taking away their LCP. ESPECIALLY, when going fully automatic, or on bullet 50 of a 100 round drum, opposed to having to reload a revolver (with or without the quick reloader). Thus, it's easier to disarm with a bullet NOT being actively fired at your face. Common sense, Doc.
d) the AR-15 shoots 45-50 rounds a minute, on average. How many can you squeeze out of a 6 shot in the same minute? (while reloading too, haha). Again, less bullets flying at kids' faces per minute. Is it worth 1-3 lives in Newtown? Maybe MORE? To me, yes. To you, clearly not. A 9mm, using standard mag, would need about 4 mag changes in that same minute, or, at least 2, yes?
You know when Agents are trained to disarm? I'll give u a choice 1) When a bullet is being actively fired or 2) When the shooter is reloading. Can you answer this question?
e) The AR-15 is the civilian model of the M-16, the ARMY WEAPON. Soon, it will not be protected under your supposed 2nd amendment rights. My guess is large mags will go as well.
f) I haven't looked at gel ballistics of the AR-15 compared to a 9mm. Not sure which may be deadlier, more forceful, which could in theory carry a more deadly bullet that penetrates more or causes more damage. This of course all goes out the window when the AW is 1) converted to AUTOMATIC.

g) JWK, would you like the opinion of a retired U.S. Federal Law Enforcement Agent to chime in on this stuff, Mr. Gun Expert? I have one standing by should you like to take me up on this offer, Mr. Gun Expert...?

D712

 

[pgg]

Someone tested it out on youtube recently. In .22, it held up pretty well. In .223, it lasted 5 shots. It's very cool technology though. With a different resin/powder combo, maybe it would be more effective

In 10 years the discounted craft-fair model of those things will probably be laying down titanium.

3D printers are just going to add a new level of futility to prohibiting possession of, well, anything.

 

[doctor712]

What's the source of your table? I don't like to take things at face value.

Source: US Government, follow-up report on AW Ban 94-04.

Is the a good enough primary source?

D712

 

[doctor712]

As far as rifle cartridges, yes, they're going to generally do more damage than a pistol caliber.

Period. Don't say anything after that phrase, just end it there. End it like the AW's protection under the 2nd amendment will be ended with a new ban and ADDITIONAL gun regulation.

Period.

D712

p.s. I'm happy to take this over to NRA thread, this has otherwise turned back into its own gun thread...

 

[doctor712]

So at short range, which is what happened in the Connecticut classrooms, how is an "assault rifle" (which you have yet to define BTW) any more deadly than a Glock?

For additional empirical device, take a look here:

More deadly. Get it?

Good. (this includes Glocks with LCM, which will also be banned shortly).

D712

 

[loveoforganic2]

Easy: an assault rifle
a) when fully automatic or converted to fully automatic, shoots more bullets per second. In other words, more bullets fly out of the gun and kill innocent people (see my NRA thread postings.) Please put your gun collection aside and use some common sense.
When remaining semi-auto, like in Newtown, please see letters b through d.
b) has the capacity for magazines that hold more bullets, than a revolver or a 9mm, (last time I checked, a Glock cannot hold 100 bullets, and a Magnum holds very few, like 6/100 to be exact when compared to a drum in an AR-15). Logically, this gives the shooter more of a chance to empty the weapon and kill innocent kids, before having to STOP SHOOTING and RELOAD (which is when certain people can be disarmed).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

fully convertable to full auto, by the way

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

c) I would argue that disarming someone of their AW is a LOT harder than taking away their LCP. ESPECIALLY, when going fully automatic, or on bullet 50 of a 100 round drum, opposed to having to reload a revolver (with or without the quick reloader). Thus, it's easier to disarm with a bullet NOT being actively fired at your face. Common sense, Doc.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A specific advantage of pistols over long guns is RETENTION

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

d) the AR-15 shoots 45-50 rounds a minute, on average. How many can you squeeze out of a 6 shot in the same minute? (while reloading too, haha). Again, less bullets flying at kids' faces per minute. Is it worth 1-3 lives in Newtown? Maybe MORE? To me, yes. To you, clearly not. A 9mm, using standard mag, would need about 4 mag changes in that same minute, or, at least 2, yes?
You know when Agents are trained to disarm? I'll give u a choice 1) When a bullet is being actively fired or 2) When the shooter is reloading. Can you answer this question?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqA8S3-u4ho

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

e) The AR-15 is the civilian model of the M-16, the ARMY WEAPON. Soon, it will not be protected under your supposed 2nd amendment rights. My guess is large mags will go as well.
f) I haven't looked at gel ballistics of the AR-15 compared to a 9mm. Not sure which may be deadlier, more forceful, which could in theory carry a more deadly bullet that penetrates more or causes more damage. This of course all goes out the window when the AW is 1) converted to AUTOMATIC.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You're really letting your lack of knowledge regarding firearms show. An AR-15 is a weapon platform available in numerous chamberings, including 9mm, as well as .22 LR and a number of other weaker calibers. The round typically used by the military out of light arms is a 5.56 (.223). There are handgun calibers coming out of a 7.5" barrel that significantly outpower the .223 coming out of a 22" barrel.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

g) JWK, would you like the opinion of a retired U.S. Federal Law Enforcement Agent to chime in on this stuff, Mr. Gun Expert? I have one standing by should you like to take me up on this offer, Mr. Gun Expert...?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You're appealing to authority and displaying very poor knowledge of what various firearms are capable of

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

D712

Period. Don't say anything after that phrase, just end it there. End it like the AW's protection under the 2nd amendment will be ended with a new ban and ADDITIONAL gun regulation.

Period.

D712

p.s. I'm happy to take this over to NRA thread, this has otherwise turned back into its own gun thread...

You're continued insistence on replying to a single, small (and mostly irrelevant) part of what I'm saying has wearied me of even trying.

I have little faith any impending legislation will make any significant difference in the macroscopic crime picture, nor the rarer mass killing, but I do hope it does. Meanwhile, up the education on the topic at hand to avoid being a pissant.

 

[doctor712]

Keep it nice Orgo.

First off, never saw a 9mm like that. That'll be banned and LET'S BE REAL, stop watching TV, we're talking about rifles.

Also, as I STATED -- I am not familiar with the ballistics of the AR-15. Just thinking that it is clearly more deadly than a Glock. What with all the bullets that it can hold, and its potential for being turned fully automatic.

Funny how all these killers choose the AR-15 and not your Die Hard version of the Glock there.

You basically side-stepped all my data with a few zebras. Get over yourself. And also, duh -- I would consider that Glock (altered to your laughingly ridiculous form) an AW. So, add it in. You're missing the BIG PICTURE. But whatever.

If you cannot interpret the data I have presented, that's your issue, not mine.

Also, I'll take the word of a FEDERAL AGENT regarding disarming a shooter rather than some Organic Chemist cum Doctor. Data and valued opinion, darling. Data and 30 years of law enforcement opinion.

D712

 

[loveoforganic2]

Your studies were replied to with the UPenn study.

What with all the bullets that it can hold, and its potential for being turned fully automatic.

Funny how all these killers choose the AR-15 and not your Die Hard version of the Glock there.

Any glock in the appropriate caliber will accept that magazine (which is already in the possession of numerous individuals). No modifications are needed. So calling it an assault weapon is, confusing? The modification to full auto for the pistol is the same that you speak of for "assault weapons."

The VT shooting occurred without the aid of the c-mag I posted in that glock picture above or "assault weapons". Just a glock, with normal old glock magazines (not even the 33 rounders)

 

[doctor712]

Keep quoting one out of the 50 mass shootings in the last decade. And keep telling yourself that this gun control debate is all about the VT shootings...

D712

 

[doctor712]

Hey Organic and PGG

Your NRA leader wants to arm guards at every school who wants it, this is a good idea right? More guns in safe/police hands is the right idea, right?

Laperriere is onto something, yes? You cannot have it both ways, right, this is a GOOD thing, yes?

He also said that games and violent movies cause mass shootings.

D712

 

[doctor712]

Your studies were replied to with the UPenn study.



Any glock in the appropriate caliber will accept that magazine (which is already in the possession of numerous individuals). No modifications are needed. So calling it an assault weapon is, confusing? The modification to full auto for the pistol is the same that you speak of for "assault weapons."

The VT shooting occurred without the aid of the c-mag I posted in that glock picture above or "assault weapons". Just a glock, with normal old glock magazines (not even the 33 rounders)

Hey Orgo,

Take a glimpse at this video (2 min video). Please take a listen to what trauma docs at Ryder (Jackson) have to say about treating victims of gunshot wounds (AW v 9mm).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEFkL7Z3OSo&feature=youtu.be

Lemme ask you a question, are you yet a physician? I would, then, pay attention to what these physicians say about treating AW wounds.

Thoughts? Is this a good primary source of data for you? What do you have to say to this female attending at Ryder?

D712

 

[countingdays]

Hey Orgo,

Take a glimpse at this video (2 min video). Please take a listen to what trauma docs at Ryder (Jackson) have to say about treating victims of gunshot wounds (AW v 9mm).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEFkL7Z3OSo&feature=youtu.be

Lemme ask you a question, are you yet a physician? I would, then, pay attention to what these physicians say about treating AW wounds.

Thoughts? Is this a good primary source of data for you? What do you have to say to this female attending at Ryder?

D712

So ban assault-looking rifles? How does a wound from a 30.06, .338 mag, or short barrel 12 ga look?

And don't think he can't have 2 9mms to use if you rush him when he needs to reload the 12 ga.