MD 1st Year almost done - Seriously thinking about quitting

[Slytheryn]

I would still have some exams to pass, but I have passed many also, however I had probably the most brutal existential twists in my entire life and now I just can't seem to find enough motivation to continue on this path. This field, in which I put so much hope and effort, turns out to be another deal-breaker for me.

Why is that ?

• I realized I don't want to spend the rest of my life with the people in this field. I don't want to offend anyone and I know many of you are great persons, but there is simply an excess of those types of persons that I don't want to deal with on a daily basis.
• Both my parents are doctors and they are still very hypocritical and puzzled about the reason they chose Medicine: they say it was passion, but for most part of my life, I saw them struggling; I saw them doing it mostly for the money, because back in their times the investment was way smaller and the profit was way bigger, so I think it was a great career choice for them, however it wasn't something they were genuinely passionate about and I see the same thing at my peers ( a dishonest person will always recognize another dishonest person, so it's not hard to tell who is truly passionate about it and who is faking it ); I would say that it just shows on their face that if someone would give them the salary for the rest of their lives as a physician, they would quit pursuing Medicine - because their passion is a forced and faked passion, if there would be no money in it, many would quit
• Finally, the most important part : I had my own "military philosophy" about life a few years ago and I said that I'm going to grab all the extremely unattractive parts of Medicine and I'm going to use them to discipline myself, but I just don't want this anymore and not because I couldn't do it, but because I don't see a point in doing it anymore. I'm waking up every morning and thinking to myself that "You're 23, you're 23, you're 23....." and I see everything going so slow and so monotonous every single day, and I'm thinking to myself that yes, I wanted this very much, but I don't want to spend my youth becoming a full-time robot, living up to others' expectations all the time, rushing like a headless chicken, etc.

Besides this, I have a very wild and non-conformist nature, so there is something inside me that rebels against this whole Medical culture.
Quoting George Carlin's words ( it fits perfectly this situation ) : " F*ck those people. F*ck that ****. Look at this stupid ****. " - Somehow no matter how great I think the Medical field could be, the reality always makes me think about the previous statements.

I listened to more than a hundred different people who work in the field, the ones who have actually found some peace and joy, and I've come to the conclusion that they all made compromises one way or another. I wouldn't be able to make these compromises and I think I would never truly fit in.

This is not even an easy decision for me, because honestly I have nothing to go to, if I quit Medicine, I have to start from scratch in any field, so it's not like I'm taking the easy way out or that I would be a coward, actually I'm terrified of what is ahead of me if I quit. The only thing that wouldn't be a problem is the debt, because I don't have a debt to pay back ( yes, I know for many of you this is an enormous thing, but trust me, the fact that I have no skills whatsoever or idea about what to do with my life is crippling enough ).

Thanks for reading, maybe some of you can relate or even if not, any opinion is welcomed !

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[deleted480308]

Passion is an overused cliche' that doesn't feed my kids or pay my mortgage

Do what you want but don't romanticise the other options on the table, you are not some unique revolutionary

 

[CfCp]

If this is how you feel after first year of medical school, quit now. It'll only get harder, and the debt will only keep rising. Medicine is extremely rewarding and fun, even during the hard times, if you really like it; what I'm understanding from your post is that you really don't.

** I saw debt isn't a problem for you. You already have that going for you when you're on the search for something else! Starting from scratch is hard; doing it after a few years of suffering is even harder.

 

[jcorpsmanMD]

I'm barely going to be an ms1, so I can't totally understand where you're coming from, but it reminds me awfully a lot about the military. But my one question I ask you, is, what compromises are you not willing to make? Life is full of compromises.. any chance you could take a LOA? I have a feeling you went directly from undergrad to medical school, you probably haven't had a chance to realize just how ****ty life can be. Sorry if what I'm saying isn't helpful, but you're young. I think that's your problem.. (not that everybody that's young goes through this, but many probably do)

 

[Slytheryn]

Passion is an overused cliche' that doesn't feed my kids or pay my mortgage

Do what you want but don't romanticise the other options on the table, you are not some unique revolutionary

Listen, dude, you call it "romanticising" , I call it "speaking up my mind", "making a stand for what I currently believe in".
I have just as much right to make my point as you have to make yours.
As for the revolutionary part : you're certainly not one, but that's your choice. I have the freedom to make my choice and everyone has the same freedom. Some people will disagree ( like you ) , but there will be also the ones who will agree with me. You can't change it.

 

[deleted480308]

Listen, dude, you call it "romanticising" , I call it "speaking up my mind", "making a stand for what I currently believe in".
I have just as much right to make my point as you have to make yours.
As for the revolutionary part : you're certainly not one, but that's your choice. I have the freedom to make my choice and everyone has the same freedom. Some people will disagree ( like you ) , but there will be also the ones who will agree with me. You can't change it.

Deep breaths....no one says you can't make the decision, just questioning the hyperbole

How do you have no debt?

 

[Slytheryn]

If this is how you feel after first year of medical school, quit now. It'll only get harder, and the debt will only keep rising. Medicine is extremely rewarding and fun, even during the hard times, if you really like it; what I'm understanding from your post is that you really don't.

** I saw debt isn't a problem for you. You already have that going for you when you're on the search for something else! Starting from scratch is hard; doing it after a few years of suffering is even harder.

Yes, you're right about the starting from scratch part and I also know that Medicine is extremely rewarding and fun, when you like it. I thought about whether it's a huge wake-up call for me that I don't like it, but as I said, I had the military philosophy in my mind, I just planned to tough it out.
By the way, talking about 1st year : I know many people are saying "You're just 1st year, you'll see how it all changes in 3rd year", but I heard many contrary opinions as well, that actually many students are also deluded in this big 3rd year illusion, only to realize that when they get there, there's no relevant beneficial change actually, but then you're even deeper already and it's almost impossible to admit, even to yourself, that you'd like to quit then, because then it's quite late in a way.

 

[bearded frog]

Medicine is a broad field, I agree there is a certain personality archetype but as you feel you don't belong you can be sure there are others who feel the same way. I don't know about your school but in my first year we had the opportunity to do half-day electives/shadowing in whatever field we wanted. I would suggest seeing what practice is like in a broad range of specialties, and if possible, settings. The life of a community pediatrician is much different than the academic thoracic surgeon, and certainly personalities will tend to self-segregate. Talk to the staff you work with and see if they have any insight. If you have seen everything and still nothing fits, than there is no shame in that and you can pursue your calling elsewhere. Don't go into medicine for the money, because your work becomes a cost-benefit analysis, and that's how you become jaded.

 

[Slytheryn]

I'm barely going to be an ms1, so I can't totally understand where you're coming from, but it reminds me awfully a lot about the military. But my one question I ask you, is, what compromises are you not willing to make? Life is full of compromises.. any chance you could take a LOA? I have a feeling you went directly from undergrad to medical school, you probably haven't had a chance to realize just how ****ty life can be. Sorry if what I'm saying isn't helpful, but you're young. I think that's your problem.. (not that everybody that's young goes through this, but many probably do)

Well yeah, my parents made it clear that Med school is going to be a "military" for me, although they talked about some "passion" that is going to come when I'm going to become a doctor, I'm inclined to think that you can't call that real passion, maybe some hangover effect of 4-years of struggling + residency, so that when you become a doctor, that feels better only because there is no way to actually feel worse.

Yes, I realize that I am young and that life is full of **** and that one has to make compromises sometimes, but I feel that I've had way too much of this compulsive social conditioning to do thousands of things only to fit in a system that no one truly believes in, but that everyone follows only because they are sheep and they came here just like me, either because they made simply a bad choice, either because they followed the money, either because they believe that having a secure job is all there is to life, because you know, having balls and going after the things you genuinely want, even if they aren't as safe and as comfortable as an MD career, is an unpopular thing to do.
After a certain age, you become more and more hypocritical about this thing, and you start bad-mouthing the youth who sees through your BS.
Note : I am not talking about everyone here, I am talking about a big group of people, but there are certainly many other people in this field who have a genuine interest and passion.

Trust me, I'm no coward - I own all the consequences, I own the danger of going out and starting from scratch and possibly not make it, so it's not like I would live in a fairy tale and I would encourage others to do so, I'm simply stating that giving up so many things in your life only for a secure job and a paycheck might not be the path you want to follow. I know for some people it's hard to imagine, but we're not the same. Some take the risks to follow their gut, others don't.

 

[Slytheryn]

How do you have no debt?

I am a European student, the country in which I live has way lower fees than US Med schools and we were able to pay 1st year without any debt.

 

[deleted480308]

Well yeah, my parents made it clear that Med school is going to be a "military" for me, although they talked about some "passion" that is going to come when I'm going to become a doctor, I'm inclined to think that you can't call that real passion, maybe some hangover effect of 4-years of struggling + residency, so that when you become a doctor, that feels better only because there is no way to actually feel worse.

Yes, I realize that I am young and that life is full of **** and that one has to make compromises sometimes, but I feel that I've had way too much of this compulsive social conditioning to do thousands of things only to fit in a system that no one truly believes in, but that everyone follows only because they are sheep and they came here just like me, either because they made simply a bad choice, either because they followed the money, either because they believe that having a secure job is all there is to life, because you know, having balls and going after the things you genuinely want, even if they aren't as safe and as comfortable as an MD career, is an unpopular thing to do.
After a certain age, you become more and more hypocritical about this thing, and you start bad-mouthing the youth who sees through your BS.
Note : I am not talking about everyone here, I am talking about a big group of people, but there are certainly many other people in this field who have a genuine interest and passion.

Trust me, I'm no coward - I own all the consequences, I own the danger of going out and starting from scratch and possibly not make it, so it's not like I would live in a fairy tale and I would encourage others to do so, I'm simply stating that giving up so many things in your life only for a secure job and a paycheck might not be the path you want to follow. I know for some people it's hard to imagine, but we're not the same. Some take the risks to follow their gut, others don't.

Are you on scholarship?

 

[deleted480308]

I am a European student, the country in which I live has way lower fees than US Med schools and we were able to pay 1st year without any debt.

We? You have a family?

 

[CfCp]

Yes, you're right about the starting from scratch part and I also know that Medicine is extremely rewarding and fun, when you like it. I thought about whether it's a huge wake-up call for me that I don't like it, but as I said, I had the military philosophy in my mind, I just planned to tough it out.
By the way, talking about 1st year : I know many people are saying "You're just 1st year, you'll see how it all changes in 3rd year", but I heard many contrary opinions as well, that actually many students are also deluded in this big 3rd year illusion, only to realize that when they get there, there's no relevant beneficial change actually, but then you're even deeper already and it's almost impossible to admit, even to yourself, that you'd like to quit then, because then it's quite late in a way.

If there's something I've learned in the last couple of years, it's that "toughing it out" is probably the worst thing you could do.
I've been fortunate enough to have a really good time in med school so far. I love what I do, but at some points it gets really, really hard. People don't realize that after every challenge you encounter, comes another one. It starts with the MCAT, then the Boards, then the Match, and it goes on and on. If you're barely holding it together waiting out the storm, the calm will never come. If medicine is the thing you really want to do, you'll get by it just fine (roughed up a bit, but fine nonetheless). Hating the journey will spit out a miserable human being, which isn't good for you, or for your patients. Go with your gut. No regrets.

 

[Slytheryn]

We? You have a family?

I mean my parents.
Well, my parents being doctors, they wouldn't have let me to take out debt to pay my 1st year. Of course that this is also a reason I am thinking about quitting, because I don't want to live on their money for one more year.

 

[deleted480308]

I mean my parents.
Well, my parents being doctors, they wouldn't have let me to take out debt to pay my 1st year. Of course that this is also a reason I am thinking about quitting, because I don't want to live on their money for one more year.

Ok, couple of things here
1. Maybe tone down the typecasting of everyone else being blind lemmings to the system that only you have the courage to resist while living off those lemmings
2. You aren't owning the consequences of quitting, your parents are eating this year's expenses
3. Do they not have student loans in europe? You don't physically have to live off your parents next year if you take the loans right?
4. I'd like to suggest that some of this wanderlust might be about Independance from your parents and wanting to be self sufficient as opposed to just being about med school....but do what you want with that

 

[gcuddles]

If you don't want to be a physician, take a look into the other things you can do with an MD degree. Maybe one of those options is more up your ally? That way you can take advantage of the training you've already done but don't have to deal with the 'personalities' that you abhor.

As a question: if you're a European med student but you're 23, you didn't go straight from high school to med school, right? What made you decide to continue in medicine after a 4 year bachelor's degree? Maybe reflecting on what led to this decision can help bring you some peace at this critical time.

 

[Stagg737]

I think you're missing @sb247 's point about passion and romanticizing medicine. You said that if someone gave them the salary for the rest of their lives they'd quit pursuing medicine and stated that as dishonest. Do you really think the exact same thing couldn't be said about pretty much every other career out there? The vast majority of people aren't passionate about what they do in the way you're describing. People do the jobs they do because A) they enjoy doing it or can at least tolerate it. B) It brings in the money they need to survive and support themselves/their families. C) They understand that without that job they will lose a piece of their independence and want to be able to do their own thing.

The way you describe passion sounds like someone who asks the question "if someone offered to pay the minimum to support you (food, housing, clothing, etc.) for this job, would you still do it?", with the mindset that only yes denotes them being passionate about it. While those people exist, I've found that they make up an extremely small portion of the work-force and that the vast majority of people would be unwilling to do their job if you only compensated them in that way. That's not something unique to medicine. At all. Idk what med school and medicine is like in whatever country you're in, but I've found that the majority of med students and doctors do actually like their job and treating patients, but it's the government/insurance interference along with regulations that seem to do little for actual patient care that they don't like.

I say this because as someone else stated, it sounds like you don't have a lot of experience out in the working world and went straight through school into med school. I took a few gap years and found that most people weren't following their passions, and the very small number who were either were or are going through immense struggles to be able to do so.

Yes, you're right about the starting from scratch part and I also know that Medicine is extremely rewarding and fun, when you like it. I thought about whether it's a huge wake-up call for me that I don't like it, but as I said, I had the military philosophy in my mind, I just planned to tough it out.
By the way, talking about 1st year : I know many people are saying "You're just 1st year, you'll see how it all changes in 3rd year", but I heard many contrary opinions as well, that actually many students are also deluded in this big 3rd year illusion, only to realize that when they get there, there's no relevant beneficial change actually, but then you're even deeper already and it's almost impossible to admit, even to yourself, that you'd like to quit then, because then it's quite late in a way.

Idk what the structure of your medical education is like, but anyone in the U.S. that says there isn't a huge change from pre-clinicals to clinical years is either lying or completely blind. I do know a few people who hate(d) third and fourth years and loved first and second years. Every single one of those people enjoyed learning and were the types of people who would just stay in school forever if they could. For those that actually want to see and treat patients (like myself), the general consensus is that clinical years are significantly better. For me, it actually feels like I'm making a difference and learning things that I will really apply in residency and beyond instead of random gene mutations that I generally don't care about. 3rd year does have it's own problems and it's not all sunshines and lollipops, but to me it's infinitely better than pre-clinical years (especially the months leading up to Step 1).

 

[ACSurgeon]

Your posts suggest a few things:

You seems to equate passion with being naive or blindly in love with something. Nothing in life is perfect or easy. You compromise always in life. Every time you chose something you're turning down something else.

You seem entitled. You come across as the privileged child of two doctors who was raised to believe life can be tamed to fit you. Welcome to being a grown up, it kinda sucks sometimes. A lot of times. You just have to pick what aspects of pain you want to deal with.

You're young. That will pass. One way or another you're gonna wake up and be 30. 35. 40. What are you going to regret more, spending thousands of hours training to be a physician at the expense of some number of social events/parties/fun OR are you going to regret waking up at the age of 40, still worrying about how to make ends meet, and having blown through your youth with nothing to show for it?

See, you can't have it all. You cannot accomplish great things without sacrifices. On the other hand, not everyone needs to accomplish great things. And the definition of great is different from one person to the next.

Leaving medicine might be the right thing for you. And please understand, anything that seems critical of your post is an outsider's view of the situation, which presumably is why you started this thread. It's so that maybe others point out flaws in your thought process so that you can adjust your thoughts and arrive at the best possible decision.

Good luck.

 

[Slytheryn]

Ok, couple of things here
1. Maybe tone down the typecasting of everyone else being blind lemmings to the system that only you have the courage to resist while living off those lemmings
2. You aren't owning the consequences of quitting, your parents are eating this year's expenses
3. Do they not have student loans in europe? You don't physically have to live off your parents next year if you take the loans right?
4. I'd like to suggest that some of this wanderlust might be about Independance from your parents and wanting to be self sufficient as opposed to just being about med school....but do what you want with that

1. I said that I am not talking about everyone. And yes, I was also part of the system, but at least I face it and just because I was a part of it, it doesn't mean that I want to continue being a part of it.

2. I am owning the consequences, because I plan to live on my own and I know I can't pay them back in one year, but I will certainly pay them back. I don't plan to live on their money for the next years, either. That's the most I can do right now to own the consequences.

3. I explained that there was no way my parents would let me to take out loans when they can pay the tuition fee easily.

4. Yes, it is about being independent, but it is also about med school, because if I would find even a sparkle of passion, then I wouldn't have a problem with it. Heck, I would even take out loans, I swear it, if I would see a sparkle of interest in this field, but my only interest was Psych, however there are far too many things to go through only to get there. I don't think I will enjoy the destination if I can't enjoy the journey at all.

But hey, maybe I'm the one who's b*tching, I couldn't tell it anymore. Some say I'm right, some say I'm wrong. I'm open to both, I just wish I'd know which one is true.

 

[bannie22]

leave before its too late

 

[libertyyne]

I would still have some exams to pass, but I have passed many also, however I had probably the most brutal existential twists in my entire life and now I just can't seem to find enough motivation to continue on this path. This field, in which I put so much hope and effort, turns out to be another deal-breaker for me.

Why is that ?

• I realized I don't want to spend the rest of my life with the people in this field. I don't want to offend anyone and I know many of you are great persons, but there is simply an excess of those types of persons that I don't want to deal with on a daily basis.
• Both my parents are doctors and they are still very hypocritical and puzzled about the reason they chose Medicine: they say it was passion, but for most part of my life, I saw them struggling; I saw them doing it mostly for the money, because back in their times the investment was way smaller and the profit was way bigger, so I think it was a great career choice for them, however it wasn't something they were genuinely passionate about and I see the same thing at my peers ( a dishonest person will always recognize another dishonest person, so it's not hard to tell who is truly passionate about it and who is faking it ); I would say that it just shows on their face that if someone would give them the salary for the rest of their lives as a physician, they would quit pursuing Medicine - because their passion is a forced and faked passion, if there would be no money in it, many would quit
• Finally, the most important part : I had my own "military philosophy" about life a few years ago and I said that I'm going to grab all the extremely unattractive parts of Medicine and I'm going to use them to discipline myself, but I just don't want this anymore and not because I couldn't do it, but because I don't see a point in doing it anymore. I'm waking up every morning and thinking to myself that "You're 23, you're 23, you're 23....." and I see everything going so slow and so monotonous every single day, and I'm thinking to myself that yes, I wanted this very much, but I don't want to spend my youth becoming a full-time robot, living up to others' expectations all the time, rushing like a headless chicken, etc.

Besides this, I have a very wild and non-conformist nature, so there is something inside me that rebels against this whole Medical culture.
Quoting George Carlin's words ( it fits perfectly this situation ) : " F*ck those people. F*ck that ****. Look at this stupid ****. " - Somehow no matter how great I think the Medical field could be, the reality always makes me think about the previous statements.

I listened to more than a hundred different people who work in the field, the ones who have actually found some peace and joy, and I've come to the conclusion that they all made compromises one way or another. I wouldn't be able to make these compromises and I think I would never truly fit in.

This is not even an easy decision for me, because honestly I have nothing to go to, if I quit Medicine, I have to start from scratch in any field, so it's not like I'm taking the easy way out or that I would be a coward, actually I'm terrified of what is ahead of me if I quit. The only thing that wouldn't be a problem is the debt, because I don't have a debt to pay back ( yes, I know for many of you this is an enormous thing, but trust me, the fact that I have no skills whatsoever or idea about what to do with my life is crippling enough ).

Thanks for reading, maybe some of you can relate or even if not, any opinion is welcomed !

Everything is a job. Passion is what people have who don't have to go to a job call their hobbies .

 

[Slytheryn]

Your posts suggest a few things:

1. You seem entitled. You come across as the privileged child of two doctors who was raised to believe life can be tamed to fit you. Welcome to being a grown up, it kinda sucks sometimes. A lot of times.

2. You just have to pick what aspects of pain you want to deal with.

3. What are you going to regret more, spending thousands of hours training to be a physician at the expense of some number of social events/parties/fun OR are you going to regret waking up at the age of 40, still worrying about how to make ends meet, and having blown through your youth with nothing to show for it?

4. And please understand, anything that seems critical of your post is an outsider's view of the situation, which presumably is why you started this thread. It's so that maybe others point out flaws in your thought process so that you can adjust your thoughts and arrive at the best possible decision.

1. I know I am not entitled to anything. I might write and speak in a way that comes off as arrogant, but I just want to make the most out of life and my confidence can come off as arrogance.
I'm not someone who wants to take advantage of everything at the expense of others, but I do want to make the most out of life and this is why I always do my best to shape life not only for myself, but for others as well, because if I can feel free and good in my life ( rather than limited and nervous ) , then I can also make better decisions on every levels and be a better friend/partner for other people as well. I don't think that a physician who is nervous and edgy all the time, doesn't have time for his family, watches his social relationships fall apart, necessarily contributes better to the society. It's one of those things that grown-ups do quite often, I am still young enough to dare questioning the wisdom of this.

2. I want pain. I just want that pain to be worth it. I want to look back at my life and have no regrets. I love to put effort into something, to sacrifice my sleep, to feel the blood pumping in my veins while I focus on working, but I want it to be worth it.

3. I would regret more the 2nd option, but only if I would not succeed at anything else. It's a risk that no one can foresee, I know.

4. I know and I really thank all of you for it.

 

[Goro]

A real crisis of faith.

But if you despise your classmates that much, keep in mind that it's the patients you'll interact with more.

Making bank is the baseline for going into Medicine.

I suggest talking with a mental health professional/counselor/pastor/rabbi/imam/ trusted Faculty member.

Perhaps take a LOA and see how you feel after a year.

If you decide to leave, don't look back!

I would still have some exams to pass, but I have passed many also, however I had probably the most brutal existential twists in my entire life and now I just can't seem to find enough motivation to continue on this path. This field, in which I put so much hope and effort, turns out to be another deal-breaker for me.

Why is that ?

• I realized I don't want to spend the rest of my life with the people in this field. I don't want to offend anyone and I know many of you are great persons, but there is simply an excess of those types of persons that I don't want to deal with on a daily basis.
• Both my parents are doctors and they are still very hypocritical and puzzled about the reason they chose Medicine: they say it was passion, but for most part of my life, I saw them struggling; I saw them doing it mostly for the money, because back in their times the investment was way smaller and the profit was way bigger, so I think it was a great career choice for them, however it wasn't something they were genuinely passionate about and I see the same thing at my peers ( a dishonest person will always recognize another dishonest person, so it's not hard to tell who is truly passionate about it and who is faking it ); I would say that it just shows on their face that if someone would give them the salary for the rest of their lives as a physician, they would quit pursuing Medicine - because their passion is a forced and faked passion, if there would be no money in it, many would quit
• Finally, the most important part : I had my own "military philosophy" about life a few years ago and I said that I'm going to grab all the extremely unattractive parts of Medicine and I'm going to use them to discipline myself, but I just don't want this anymore and not because I couldn't do it, but because I don't see a point in doing it anymore. I'm waking up every morning and thinking to myself that "You're 23, you're 23, you're 23....." and I see everything going so slow and so monotonous every single day, and I'm thinking to myself that yes, I wanted this very much, but I don't want to spend my youth becoming a full-time robot, living up to others' expectations all the time, rushing like a headless chicken, etc.

Besides this, I have a very wild and non-conformist nature, so there is something inside me that rebels against this whole Medical culture.
Quoting George Carlin's words ( it fits perfectly this situation ) : " F*ck those people. F*ck that ****. Look at this stupid ****. " - Somehow no matter how great I think the Medical field could be, the reality always makes me think about the previous statements.

I listened to more than a hundred different people who work in the field, the ones who have actually found some peace and joy, and I've come to the conclusion that they all made compromises one way or another. I wouldn't be able to make these compromises and I think I would never truly fit in.

This is not even an easy decision for me, because honestly I have nothing to go to, if I quit Medicine, I have to start from scratch in any field, so it's not like I'm taking the easy way out or that I would be a coward, actually I'm terrified of what is ahead of me if I quit. The only thing that wouldn't be a problem is the debt, because I don't have a debt to pay back ( yes, I know for many of you this is an enormous thing, but trust me, the fact that I have no skills whatsoever or idea about what to do with my life is crippling enough ).

Thanks for reading, maybe some of you can relate or even if not, any opinion is welcomed !

 

[jcorpsmanMD]

OP, I think if you were to take a LOA and go work in a factory for a year, work as a roofer for a year (in 100 degree heat), work as a mover, etc. a myriad of undesirable jobs, it would do a lot to dispel your naivety. Whether medicine is right for you or not, is a whole different story. You seem naive when it comes to what the real world is, in general. The only people who can truly afford to live the way you want, either a) barely scrape by in life pursuing their passions or b) are trust fund kiddos.

I'm sure I will HATE a lot about medicine once I start my journey but I doubt it'll be as bad as some other menial, back-breaking, work I've done in my life. I'm serious, just take a LOA, I promise you, whether you love medicine or not, you just might regret "quitting" on medicine.

 

[jm192]

I didn't enjoy 1st or 2nd year a lot.
You will have a lot of really competitive people that you may not enjoy being around. I would encourage you to look for the learning opportunity and or value in everyone you meet. If you let those competitive types bring out the best in you, it's great to be around them.

If you simply feel overwhelmed because they're doing better than you, it can get frustrating.

Some of the people in my med school class who were near the top of the close were arrogant and vocal about how well they were doing.
I didn't always enjoy hearing how great they were, and I certainly didn't always enjoy talking school/medicine.

But, studying with them was like my studying on crack. I have those connections, and who knows maybe one day we wind up at the same hospital and I know the neurosurgeon I have to consult at 4 AM, and I know he was brilliant. Life should be so rough.

I felt that med school changed dramatically in the 3rd year. Books don't give you that doctor feeling that wards will.

Passion is great, but at the end of the day, there are very few things as steady as medicine in terms of the pay and the job security. I have days where I get out of bed and go to work because it's what I'm supposed to do. I have days where someone asks if I have an office because they want to switch PCP's after I saved their life--and then I fight back the tears and remember why we do this.

You're exhausted. The process sucks. But if the process was easy, it wouldn't have value.

Go do something else. Go fish. Swim. Drink. Go find a girl. Or a guy. Do something that isn't medicine and get away from it. You hate it most at the end of the tunnel.

I can't tell you how many times I was exhausted and thought, "Do I really want to be here?"

At the end of it all, how else are you going to save lives?

 

[Blessthefall]

I want to extend you my gratitude for sharing what you're experiencing as it's seemingly a voice of minority amongst this site. Seldom do people voice the mental processes of a decision of this magnitude and for that, I'm grateful.

Beyond that, I don't really have more enthusiasm as you really have no skin in the game. If you had a massive amount of student loan debt threatening to be defaulted waiting for you, I believe this situation would more appropriately align with the majority of your cohorts and wouldn't have been made so easily.

I sincerely hope that whatever the decision you make is the one that best suits you in the long term.

External validation achieved.

 

[Redpancreas]

OP, the problem is you. You need to make yourself happy. I suspect your perceived annoyance of others is your own doing. I suspect this because you've come on here and are rubbing people who have read your rants, taken the time to understand you, and have typed paragraphs for you over the past couple of months the wrong way. You're inflicting these things on yourself. What I am not saying is that it is your own fault. No one is perfect and you're super frustrated right now. You seem to be very introspective and that's a great strength to have. Continue to introspect, but understand that this could all be a very hard phase in your life that you're suffering from.

I get that you're sick off this "grind-now-enjoy-later" and "medicine-is-a-noble-calling" scheme and see it as a fake and the fact that no one around you seems to admit that to you is really frustrating you, causing you to retreat because you feel like you don't have much in common with others. There are many people who feel this way deep down. What I suspect is that you haven't done a good job forming a relationships with many of them so that can they share intimate thoughts with you. Why you have not formed these relationships may not be your faults. Humans are judgmental creatures that open and trust those who with strong personalities, good looks, and many times not forming the relationships with people may not be entirely your fault, but you need to do the best to overcome your insecurities and bond with people. Sometimes you need to develop strategies to achieve this. Transparency is great, but when it excess, people are turned off by it because it's seen as baggage people have to worry about which brings them down. You need to find people like YOU in medicine because they absolutely exist and create a inner circle/support group outside of your parents.

 

[Slytheryn]

1. I think you're missing @sb247 's point about passion and romanticizing medicine. You said that if someone gave them the salary for the rest of their lives they'd quit pursuing medicine and stated that as dishonest. Do you really think the exact same thing couldn't be said about pretty much every other career out there? The vast majority of people aren't passionate about what they do in the way you're describing. People do the jobs they do because A) they enjoy doing it or can at least tolerate it. B) It brings in the money they need to survive and support themselves/their families. C) They understand that without that job they will lose a piece of their independence and want to be able to do their own thing.

2. The way you describe passion sounds like someone who asks the question "if someone offered to pay the minimum to support you (food, housing, clothing, etc.) for this job, would you still do it?", with the mindset that only yes denotes them being passionate about it. While those people exist, I've found that they make up an extremely small portion of the work-force and that the vast majority of people would be unwilling to do their job if you only compensated them in that way. That's not something unique to medicine. At all. Idk what med school and medicine is like in whatever country you're in, but I've found that the majority of med students and doctors do actually like their job and treating patients, but it's the government/insurance interference along with regulations that seem to do little for actual patient care that they don't like.

3. I took a few gap years

1 & 2 Fair enough, although I'd say that the difference between Medicine and many other jobs is that in Medicine there are more people who pretend to like their jobs more than they actually do and to also make up a good-sounding story for why they chose this field.
We had an Ethics course in first semester and a doctor came to ask each one of us why did we choose Medicine; after everyone told a story about this and that, the doctor smiled and said : " All right, folks, enough BS, let's all face it : CASH AND PRESTIGE, RIGHT ? " - And most people smiled back. That says enough.

3. Well yes, I didn't take gap years, I see that now as a mistake, but there's nothing I can do about it now.
But even if I am an inexperienced, pretentious, call-me-whatever creature, I do have classmates who did have jobs, some of them are way older than we are, yet it doesn't seem that their experience would make them any different. Like we have this woman who is 38 years old and she isn't rich or something, so I thought she will be very eager to get ahead, but she skipped classes and even failed many exams, even though she told us from the very beginning that this is the last chance for her to do it. I asked her through the year what happened, how is it going and she replied to me "Well, I'm just not motivated enough to grind it out the way I should be."
She is the oldest, but we have other older students as well. Some do well, others not at all.
It's not like work experience would change the attitude of everyone.

 

[ACSurgeon]

2. I want pain. I just want that pain to be worth it. I want to look back at my life and have no regrets. I love to put effort into something, to sacrifice my sleep, to feel the blood pumping in my veins while I focus on working, but I want it to be worth it.
.

Regarding is point: you won't know if you love medicine that much until your clinical years or even after you're a doctor. No one gets excited to study none stop for years on end. If the idea of being a physician isn't exciting, then maybe you haven't explored enough (shadow, get clinical experience) OR it really just isn't for you.

I'm a surgeon. For all of my residency, I would get excited to operate. Even in the middle of the night or at the end of a long day. The only exception to this is when I had some important life event get ruined because I had to stay late or go back in, but overall it's totally worth it, for me.

 

[gyngyn]

None of us can know what it is to practice in your country.
Do what you think is right.

 

[Slytheryn]

1. OP, the problem is you. You need to make yourself happy.

2. I suspect your perceived annoyance of others is your own doing.

3. I suspect this because you've come on here and are rubbing people who have read your rants, taken the time to understand you, and have typed paragraphs for you over the past couple of months the wrong way.

4. What I suspect is that you haven't done a good job forming a relationships with many of them so that can they share intimate thoughts with you.

1. Well, I own that I am also a part of the problem, but saying that "You need to make yourself happy" it's sometimes just unrealistic and I think you know it. Besides, I tried to make myself happy through the whole year ( it's not like I would be depressed by the way ), but when my mind is thinking all the time about different problems, it's not a priority to be happy, it's not even a possibility, because I'm focused on the problem.

2. I'm not so annoyed by others as it seems. It's just that I'm not afraid to tell exactly what I see. I'm not calling some people hypocritical because I am annoyed by them, but because I truly find them hypocritical. It's not an insult, it's just an observation, like saying that the sky is blue.

3. It wasn't my intention to rub or offend anyone here.

4. Well, actually I surprised even myself and I did made close bonds with people. Yes, some of them told me that they feel like this, I even watched many of them go through great distress, and interestingly enough, I thought the same thing that you're also saying now, that if I would see others feel the same, I would feel better - but I didn't. The theory of "cry on my shoulder and I'll cry on yours" doesn't work for me.
I actually never cried on anyone's shoulder, but I was glad to give a shoulder to cry on to others
It's just that I'm not craving attention and I'm not desperate for sympathy, at the end of the day, I am the happiest if I can take the right actions. If I can't do that, then no amount of sympathy changes anything, anyway.

 

[Redpancreas]

1. Well, I own that I am also a part of the problem, but saying that "You need to make yourself happy" it's sometimes just unrealistic and I think you know it. Besides, I tried to make myself happy through the whole year ( it's not like I would be depressed by the way ), but when my mind is thinking all the time about different problems, it's not a priority to be happy, it's not even a possibility, because I'm focused on the problem.

2. I'm not so annoyed by others as it seems. It's just that I'm not afraid to tell exactly what I see. I'm not calling some people hypocritical because I am annoyed by them, but because I truly find them hypocritical. It's not an insult, it's just an observation, like saying that the sky is blue.

3. It wasn't my intention to rub or offend anyone here.

4. Well, actually I surprised even myself and I did made close bonds with people. Yes, some of them told me that they feel like this, I even watched many of them go through great distress, and interestingly enough, I thought the same thing that you're also saying now, that if I would see others feel the same, I would feel better - but I didn't. The theory of "cry on my shoulder and I'll cry on yours" doesn't work for me.
I actually never cried on anyone's shoulder, but I was glad to give a shoulder to cry on to others
It's just that I'm not craving attention and I'm not desperate for sympathy, at the end of the day, I am the happiest if I can take the right actions. If I can't do that, then no amount of sympathy changes anything, anyway.

Fair enough.

 

[anbuitachi]

Absolutely quit. It only gets worse. M1 is the easiest year. The people you meet in the floors/OR are way worse.... You'll get abused by nurses, surgeons, OR staff, attendings, and of course patients.

You are only 23! Still very young. The easiest would to go into PA if you are somewhat interested in health stuff. Chill life. Six figure salary, lots of jobs, lots of opportunity to make more money if you care, or just chill if you dont to make money. There's this PA, when i was a 3rd year Med student. 25 yrs old, works 2 PA shifts for total of 80 hrs a week (by choice) and makes 320k. (160x2)

I literally see 23 yr olds PA, not taking crap from anyone, cause they know there will always be other jobs. Plenty quit and switch if they aren't treated 'well'

 

[Stagg737]

1 & 2 Fair enough, although I'd say that the difference between Medicine and many other jobs is that in Medicine there are more people who pretend to like their jobs more than they actually do and to also make up a good-sounding story for why they chose this field.
We had an Ethics course in first semester and a doctor came to ask each one of us why did we choose Medicine; after everyone told a story about this and that, the doctor smiled and said : " All right, folks, enough BS, let's all face it : CASH AND PRESTIGE, RIGHT ? " - And most people smiled back. That says enough.

3. Well yes, I didn't take gap years, I see that now as a mistake, but there's nothing I can do about it now.
But even if I am an inexperienced, pretentious, call-me-whatever creature, I do have classmates who did have jobs, some of them are way older than we are, yet it doesn't seem that their experience would make them any different. Like we have this woman who is 38 years old and she isn't rich or something, so I thought she will be very eager to get ahead, but she skipped classes and even failed many exams, even though she told us from the very beginning that this is the last chance for her to do it. I asked her through the year what happened, how is it going and she replied to me "Well, I'm just not motivated enough to grind it out the way I should be."
She is the oldest, but we have other older students as well. Some do well, others not at all.
It's not like work experience would change the attitude of everyone.

I wasn't there, so I don't know the situation, but people smiling back at the bioethicist seems pretty normal to me. Seems like he was trying to crack a joke. Even if he wasn't, I don't see anything wrong with someone having job security and pay as part of the reason for going into medicine. Cash and prestige may legitimately be the primary reason for some of your classmates entering medicine, but for most people those are secondary reasons, and there's nothing wrong with that.

As to your point about gap years and older classmates. My initial point was that when you have an actual job and are trying to support yourself, you get a different perspective on life than someone who has just gone to school their whole life and lived off of mom and dad or the gov. Knowing how much other jobs can suck can give a lot of people the motivation they need to succeed. At the same time it is frustrating going from being in a position where you are getting a regular paycheck and can live your life how you want, to suddenly having to take out loans again or needing to stay on a strict budget while studying things you don't care about or may never use in whatever field you enter. For a lot of people, that loss of independence can be a really hard transition, and some people just aren't capable of it. There's also those people (sounds like the 38 y.o. you're describing), who think they'd rather enter medicine than do what they were doing and then realize that the amount of work in med school isn't actually worth it. I had an older classmate (in his 40's) who was a successful businessman making almost 6 figures before med school who thought he'd rather be a doctor than what he was doing at the time. He realized in second year that the amount of stress and work of med school was affecting his physical health and that it wasn't worth continuing when he could go back to a much less stressful job that still paid well.

Taking gap years isn't some magical thing that's going to give you the experience or perspective required to rock med school. What it does do is give you an appreciation of what other careers are like and knowing what being independent means. For some, it's an invaluable time that gives them extra motivation to succeed. For others, it gives them another career/life to compare their med school life to and acts as a reference telling them if the work of med school is "worth it" to them. I'm not saying gap years necessarily create some change in attitude that automatically makes older students more successful, but it does give us another perspective on life and creates reference points if put into a position like the one you're in now. I'm not trying to belittle you, I'm just pointing out that you've expressed a view of the working world that seems skewed from what others on this forum (who have been in the workforce outside of medicine) have experienced. Maybe you would be happier in another field like being a pyschologist (since you wanted to go into psychiatry), idk. All I'm saying is that it's hard to compare what you're doing now to what you might want to do when you may have no actual experience with the other fields you may choose to pursue.

 

[neoevolution]

Absolutely quit. It only gets worse. M1 is the easiest year. The people you meet in the floors/OR are way worse.... You'll get abused by nurses, surgeons, OR staff, attendings, and of course patients.

You are only 23! Still very young. The easiest would to go into PA if you are somewhat interested in health stuff. Chill life. Six figure salary, lots of jobs, lots of opportunity to make more money if you care, or just chill if you dont to make money. There's this PA, when i was a 3rd year Med student. 25 yrs old, works 2 PA shifts for total of 80 hrs a week (by choice) and makes 320k. (160x2)

I literally see 23 yr olds PA, not taking crap from anyone, cause they know there will always be other jobs. Plenty quit and switch if they aren't treated 'well'

My school's affiliated PA program is 1.5y preclinical (including all of M2 with the med student class) and 1.5y rotation; I don't think their schooling is really any easier than ours.

The MD also leaves more options for consulting jobs or research if he hates clinical practice at the end. Or he could shoot for a field that's clinical but with better hours during residency/attending, like FM or psych.

 

[anbuitachi]

My school's affiliated PA program is 1.5y preclinical (including all of M2 with the med student class) and 1.5y rotation; I don't think their schooling is really any easier than ours.

The MD also leaves more options for consulting jobs or research if he hates clinical practice at the end. Or he could shoot for a field that's clinical but with better hours during residency/attending, like FM or psych.

Find a shorter PA program. And PA programs are less rigorous.. The quality of students in general is way lower (at least book smarts wise). It's also a billion times cheaper. And you wont be useless if you dont do residency

 

[neoevolution]

Find a shorter PA program. And PA programs are less rigorous.. The quality of students in general is way lower (at least book smarts wise). It's also a billion times cheaper. And you wont be useless if you dont do residency

Might just be my school then. They take the same M2 exams with the same P/F cutoff as us here. Tuition is also pretty much the same too.

 

[anbuitachi]

Might just be my school then. They take the same M2 exams with the same P/F cutoff as us here. Tuition is also pretty much the same too.

That is very unique then. They took their own tests here, my school wasn't P/F. You may go to a school w a top PA program? And they learn everything you do preclinical in 1.5 years??

 

[PreMedMissteps]

We? You have a family?

He has two doc parents...why be surprised that he has no debt?

 

[neoevolution]

That is very unique then. They took their own tests here, my school wasn't P/F. You may go to a school w a top PA program? And they learn everything you do preclinical in 1.5 years??

M2 is all of our micro/pharm/pathophysio, which they did 100% with us. Our "doctoring" courses and small groups were always separate.
They don't do M1 with us, but I think they cover the needed prerequisite anatomy/physio in 6mo before joining us for M2. Maybe they cut out biochem to save time?

I just checked, the PA program is too new for a US News ranking. Our med school is around top 40 usually, but not crazy highly ranked.

 

[SterlingMaloryArcher]

NOT meant to be taken in a rude tone - I realize it could be read that way, I am actually curious (no judgments from me, no matter which way it happened.)
So did you fake your way through the application/interview process either knowing you didn't have the passion, lying to yourself saying you did, or thinking you didnt actually need it you just needed to pander the admissions committe some? Why do you think that was? What ulterior motive did you have, if any, which you repressed?

Or

Do you think you were actually deluded back then? If so do you think most premeds are? Is it something you grow sick of/gets old after a while as in the 40 hours of premed shadowing are cool but the 200th clinical hour is stale and the 1000th is painful? I know I experienced this in the 5th year of my job. What do you think would help someone reach a truly honest answer about their motivation for their pursuit of medicine?

Are you sure its not the med school you hate, or perhaps, your med school? How much of hating your current expereince would you weight as the social component (not getting along with, or maybe getting along with but not fitting in with your classmates)? Do you dislike patients?

 

[anbuitachi]

M2 is all of our micro/pharm/pathophysio, which they did 100% with us. Our "doctoring" courses and small groups were always separate.
They don't do M1 with us, but I think they cover the needed prerequisite anatomy/physio in 6mo before joining us for M2. Maybe they cut out biochem to save time?

I just checked, the PA program is too new for a US News ranking. Our med school is around top 40 usually, but not crazy highly ranked.

I guess that saves money with lectures. Just combine them with what you have haha

 

[neoevolution]

I guess that saves money with lectures. Just combine them with what you have haha

They also give them mandatory attendance, which makes the guest lecturers happy because they get a decent sized audience instead of only 10 MD students by the end of M2

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

To the OP: i am still uncertain as to what compromises you referred to in your original post. Every job, even if you're passionate about it, requires some form of compromise. There is no "perfect" job. I love what I do, I would not give it up for anything even if it paid less, but it required me to recalibrate certain aspects of my life (they were manageable for me). It's just a matter of what you think you can handle.
I am also really disturbed by your story about the group who smiled and nodded to the "money and prestige" question. It doesn't pay as much as it used to, and any naturopath with a degree from Google university calls themselves "Doctor." Patients also think they can tell you how to manage their problems--the "prestige" ain't what it used to be. So I wonder why they were smiling.

 

[grapefruit17]

Intern year is brutal so far. But I have a wife. And she needs nice things.

So gotta keep the hustle up. I thought about quitting first year of med school but I think most jobs suck. Unfortunately there's no job that pays you 1 million dollars a year to sit on the couch and play xbox.

 

[Foot Fetish]

OP, realistically what are you going to do to make a living otherwise? In the grand scheme of things, even if you are looking at it from a purely financial standpoint, being a physician is still one of the highest value "investment opportunities" available, not to mention among the most exclusive. So if you can honestly say that you would enjoy the job of taking care of sick people, and if you are financially motivated (which it sounds like you are), then you should reconsider. Also, your reason of "I don't like the people in medicine" sounds like an excuse.

 

[flightnurse2MD]

Just remember you took a seat from 2-3 other people who wanted to do medicine. Get off SDN, do some soul-searching, and chase what makes you happy. Don't be like me who finally found his calling at age 39 when I started medical school. Definitely been the best 3 years of my life though...

 

[flightnurse2MD]

Intern year is brutal so far. But I have a wife. And she needs nice things.

So gotta keep the hustle up. I thought about quitting first year of med school but I think most jobs suck. Unfortunately there's no job that pays you 1 million dollars a year to sit on the couch and play xbox.

'Cuz if you ain't making dollars then you ain't making cents...

 

[flightnurse2MD]

OP, I think if you were to take a LOA and go work in a factory for a year, work as a roofer for a year (in 100 degree heat), work as a mover, etc. a myriad of undesirable jobs, it would do a lot to dispel your naivety. Whether medicine is right for you or not, is a whole different story. You seem naive when it comes to what the real world is, in general. The only people who can truly afford to live the way you want, either a) barely scrape by in life pursuing their passions or b) are trust fund kiddos.

I'm sure I will HATE a lot about medicine once I start my journey but I doubt it'll be as bad as some other menial, back-breaking, work I've done in my life. I'm serious, just take a LOA, I promise you, whether you love medicine or not, you just might regret "quitting" on medicine.

I will take typing notes 14-hours a day over wiping ass in the ICU when your patient has C. diff any f$%king day of the week....

 

[SterlingMaloryArcher]

Just remember you took a seat from 2-3 other people who wanted to do medicine. Get off SDN, do some soul-searching, and chase what makes you happy. Don't be like me who finally found his calling at age 39 when I started medical school. Definitely been the best 3 years of my life though...

Didn't he take a seat from only 1?