2003 Match less competitive

[Jubal]

As you may know, Dr. Grogono from Tulane does two annual review articles with respect to recruitement into anesthesia via the NRMP (a detailed analysis of the Match). Surprisingly this year, recruitement of american graduates has dropped few percentages from 77.33% in 2002 to 73.33% which is 4%. Consequently there's been an increase in the number of Ostheopaths and IMG's recruited this year compared to 2002.

for full review and analysis see link below:
http://www.grogono.com/nrmp/2003/Recruitment03.pdf

I thought this was interesting since everyone was talking about how competitive this years match was...

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[R U SED 8]

Originally posted by Jubal
Surprisingly this year, recruitement of american graduates has dropped few percentages......Consequently there's been an increase in the number of Ostheopaths and IMG's recruited this year compared to 2002.

my two cents.....

logically, if recruitment of american grads decreases, foreign grad (fmg/img) recruitment increases.

yet i am perplexed by the generally held principle conveyed in jubal's above statement. ***why is it that people feel osteopaths are NOT american graduates??*** i often see DOs clumped with FMGs/IMGs; and while i have the utmost respect for foreign grads, i take offense that graduates of the 19 DO schools in this nation are considered "non-American!?"

any thoughts???

 

[The Pill Counter]

I think it has to do with the fact that DO's are not part of the natural talent pool for ACGME residencies, that being LCME medical schools. I assume DO's applying to ACGME programs are thus, slightly lower than MD's in the pecking order then followed by USIMGs and true FMGs. Still better than AOA residencies, since DO's may only apply to those.

 

[Ratty]

RUSED8-

I think that perhaps people like Grogono don't include DO grads as part of "American grads" (meaning, AMG = MD only) is because the NRMP makes that distinction in both its application process and statistical reporting. Remember, in the match, you are either considered a "U.S. Senior" (=allopathic) or "Independent Applicant" (=IMG, USIMG, DO, US grads, Canadian, etc.). If the NRMP began including the DO applicants in the "U.S senior" group, then maybe everyone's perceptions would change. Until then, DO match statistics are still reported separately from their fellow U.S. seniors in allopathic schools.

 

[im2003]

The number of US MD grads increased from 904 to 927. The only reason you mention a decrease in competitiveness is that while US MD interest only went up by 23 spots, overall positions availabe went up nearly 50. The trend still shows increased numbers of US MDs wanting to pursue anesthesiology, but this year the increase in positions outpaced the increase in US MD interest. That may or may not continue.

 

[R U SED 8]

Originally posted by Ratty
If the NRMP began including the DO applicants in the "U.S senior" group, then maybe everyone's perceptions would change

couldn't have said it better myself!

listen up AOA, i think we've got a new prez in the making!!!

 

[bigfrank]

I've often wondered how DO's would react if US-MDs began to make statements that implied (and often outright claimed) that osteopathic-run residencies should give MD's the same "footing" as DO's. We would be laughed right off the door.

That said, I find it somewhat annoying that many DO's think that they have a "right" to pursue allopathic residencies. I know that DO's do indeed have the "right," a right that is, in my mind, equal to that of FMG's, in the sense that these residencies are ALLOPATHIC.

While I think the whole DO vs. MD thing is ridiculous, it does seem quite hypocritic to me.

 

[beezar]

You also have to look at the quality of applicants.

Even though the number of US allopathic grads entering anesthesia has only gone up slightly, the quality of these grads has increased significantly. This seemed to be the general consensus amongst interviewers.

 

[R U SED 8]

Originally posted by bigfrank
I find it somewhat annoying that many DO's think that they have a "right" to pursue allopathic residencies. I know that DO's do indeed have the "right," a right that is, in my mind, equal to that of FMG's, in the sense that these residencies are ALLOPATHIC.

bigfrank,

no where was it said (or implied) in my statement that DOs have a "right" to anything!!? my point was simply that US-educated DOs are just as "American" as their allopathic counterparts, and should be treated (and labelled) as such.

grogono et al pointed out that recruitment of american grads decreased and osteopathic recruitment increased. to me, it's kind of elitist categorizing ONLY AMDs as American-grads and excluding ADOs from this group. if anyone wants to distinguish AMDs from ADOs, that's fine...but differentiate by degrees....DON'T MISLABEL ADOs AS NON-AMERICAN!! perhaps Grogono should have more carefully worded his statement that USMD/AMD recruitment decreased.

as ratty pointed out, it is just this type of mis-labelling which propagates misperceptions between the allopathic and osteopathic worlds. this was my only point...no need to get annoyed or bent out of shape....we are all professionals and future colleagues........

 

[Jubal]

I agree, however this has been standarad practice of NRMP/ERAS to subdivide applicants and Grogono is just interpreting the data set. Actually maybe by the same token, there sould not be any: italian, irish, or even african american, white, hispanic labelings, huh? It's reality. You're ashamed/afraid of your roots, too well. at least let's not be hypocrites, pretinding AMG DO IMG and whatever the $%#& other labels are applied do not matter, and trying to efface them, instead of facing them. Sometimes they do sometimes they don't(matter). Let's not be THAT sensitive and hypocrites when it's really not the case.

 

[IN2BATE]

Hey, there is enough fighting in the middle east boys.........just here this view.

Being a DO who matched anesthesia allopathic and having done elective rotations at some well known MD programs, my feeling is "it is totally up to the program director at that particular program". This seems to be the person that decides I'll take an IMG but not a DO or vice versa. However, it is also true that many directors feel the application pool is of a higher caliber now overall than a few years ago. I think at any program you look now the third years are likely to be IMG, carribean grads, etc. then the first year residents; although these third years will be catching the optimum employment peak in the field now.

Everyone has an opinion, but i still think it is totally at the helm of the director/ or hospital itself...........ex., St. Vincent's in NY does not let DO's rotate in anesthesia or many other fields, except for PM&R, where DO's have traditionally been very welcome to enter this field.

Whatever,
IN2BATE

 

[tum]

Originally posted by beezar
You also have to look at the quality of applicants.

Even though the number of US allopathic grads entering anesthesia has only gone up slightly, the quality of these grads has increased significantly. This seemed to be the general consensus amongst interviewers.

do they publish these stats anywhere?