2008 Rank Order List!!!!

[dingozlife]

How about eastcoast ski/snowboarding for programs in the manhattan & SUNY's areas, are there good slopes? I heard Cleveland has slopes too but never been there..

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[Sean2tall]

Just bumping in honor of ~1 week to go.

It seems like the forum is a little slow at the moment, probably because there is nothing new to say.

 

[docbiohazard]

Just bumping in honor of ~1 week to go.

It seems like the forum is a little slow at the moment, probably because there is nothing new to say.

Anyone else considered donating to SDN for good match karma?

BH

 

[Tiki]

Just bumping in honor of ~1 week to go.

It seems like the forum is a little slow at the moment, probably because there is nothing new to say.

The forum is definitely slow right now. I keep coming online trying to desperately waste time, and there is nothing new going on.

I temporarily had my mind taken off of match day today, when I had to attend my school's financial aid exit interview. Nothing like hearing about your massive debt to make you stress about something else besides Match Monday.

 

[mlw03]

The forum is definitely slow right now. I keep coming online trying to desperately waste time, and there is nothing new going on.

I temporarily had my mind taken off of match day today, when I had to attend my school's financial aid exit interview. Nothing like hearing about your massive debt to make you stress about something else besides Match Monday.

i hear ya, tiki. i saw what i owe today and it's even more than i thought.

 

[gbwillner]

i hear ya, tiki. i saw what i owe today and it's even more than i thought.

Anyone going to try to get a job? I wonder who would hire an MD/PhD for 1.5 months for a decent wage....

 

[docbiohazard]

Anyone going to try to get a job? I wonder who would hire an MD/PhD for 1.5 months for a decent wage....

Heh... I'm working, and its a raise over my old md/phd stipend but still below what I'll make as a resident. I swear my last day of work is June 1 and then I'm relaxing until residency starts.

I need to do my exit interview too.

BH

 

[Sean2tall]

The forum is definitely slow right now. I keep coming online trying to desperately waste time, and there is nothing new going on.

Yeah I think that about sums it up. It is hard to believe actually that after all this time of med school and pre-med, that match day is just around the corner.

 

[deschutes]

Yeah I think that about sums it up. It is hard to believe actually that after all this time of med school and pre-med, that match day is just around the corner.

Depending on where you go, in about three or four (for some, possibly more) years you'll get to say "FFS I can't believe I am still interviewing!" But at least once the job interviews roll around, you'll get reimbursed.

This interview season I discovered a darling Mediterranean café called La Tapenade at O'Hare's Terminal 1 Concourse B (Gate 5). Spendy, but it's so good it almost makes it worth flying into that blackhole.

Try the salmon-caper flatbread pizza. Or the turkey berry panini. Or the breakfast frittata.

 

[schrute]

I feel your pain about money, guys...it's daunting.
I'm trying to decide if I should just skip the loan forbearance and start paying it back...especially if my wife is able to work some.

I thought about getting a job for May and June, but I think moving will be a big enough task...along with weddings...everyone is getting married.
Plus, Miller Lite has been accumulating in my fridge...it needs to be gone before we move...

 

[docbiohazard]

Yeah I think that about sums it up. It is hard to believe actually that after all this time of med school and pre-med, that match day is just around the corner.

Did anyone else get the lame "Good luck on Match Day!" card from the AMA? Am I the only person who thinks the AMA is an organization completely devoid of any interest in supporting the cause of modern pathologists?

I feel your pain about money, guys...it's daunting.
I'm trying to decide if I should just skip the loan forbearance and start paying it back...especially if my wife is able to work some.

I have loans at two different interest rates - one is consolidated and fixed at an awesome 2% rate, the other is hanging around 6% and variable... was contemplating trying to pay off the 6% early, but now that inflation fears are rising and interest rates are dropping, thinking about just paying it out slow.

I thought about getting a job for May and June, but I think moving will be a big enough task...along with weddings...everyone is getting married. Plus, Miller Lite has been accumulating in my fridge...it needs to be gone before we move...

I recommend pouring it down the toliet, or using it to marinade something.

This interview season I discovered a darling Mediterranean café called La Tapenade at O'Hare's Terminal 1 Concourse B (Gate 5). Spendy, but it's so good it almost makes it worth flying into that blackhole.

Mmm what was my favorite airport... I definitely gained an appreciation for Houston Continental after traveling around the country. Philly had a nice bar next to my gate with awesome local beer selection. Logan was well connected to the Boston transit system and a good Au bon pain. SFO had good airport sushi. Oakland hooked me up with a sweet rent car. Atlanta Hartsfield was the worst worst worst. Cleveland was lame, just there on a layover. Raleigh-Durham was pretty lame too. Oakland might have been the nicest surprise in terms of a cool regional airport... no good specific restaurant recommendations though.

Is it friday yet?

BH

 

[Sean2tall]

I have loans at two different interest rates - one is consolidated and fixed at an awesome 2% rate, the other is hanging around 6% and variable... was contemplating trying to pay off the 6% early, but now that inflation fears are rising and interest rates are dropping, thinking about just paying it out slow.

That 2% is awesome. Technically it would be in your interest to pay that as slow as humanly possible, since inflation is depreciating the value of those loans for you.

I am thinking I would opt not to pay my 6.8% interest loans, since during residency it would take a huge bite out of the salary and make living much tighter. Assuming I ever make a real attending salary, then it should be significantly easier. If I never make a decent attending salary (For whatever reason: Path job market, universal health care, whatever.) then I won't be any worse off than everybody else and will have to reassess then. Worst case scenario: if you don't have anything then they can't take anything. Unfortunately the case right now is that I have just enough that if they take something away it does hurt.

 

[pathgrrl]

I recommend pouring it down the toliet, or using it to marinade something.

Did you ever hear the one about how drinking domestic beer is like making love in a canoe? ... I'm sure you can figure out the punchline on your own.

 

[docbiohazard]

Did you ever hear the one about how drinking domestic beer is like making love in a canoe? ... I'm sure you can figure out the punchline on your own.

Hahaha... yep, that's a good one. This is what I need right here:





BH

 

[HRantz]

It seems overall that we all interviewed at many places, could this somehow artificially increase the applicant pool to the point of leaving many places unmatched as a result?

Since I doubt that programs are interviewing more applicants per available spot, it does indeed seem as if it may be a small number of applicants interviewing broadly. I doubt the stronger programs will have trouble filling, but the bottom and mid-tier programs might be left high and dry if they are vying for those applicants.

 

[docbiohazard]

Since I doubt that programs are interviewing more applicants per available spot, it does indeed seem as if it may be a small number of applicants interviewing broadly. I doubt the stronger programs will have trouble filling, but the bottom and mid-tier programs might be left high and dry if they are vying for those applicants.

I do know of one mid-tier program that started interviewing more applicants after being surprised by having an unmatched slot after years of filling. They discovered that their time-honored formula of X # applicants = Y # ranks = Z # matches came up short, so they increased the # of applicants to compensate and ensure they filled the following years.

I am very interested to see which programs didn't fill this time around. There are always a few surprises.

BH

 

[pathstudent]

I do know of one mid-tier program that started interviewing more applicants after being surprised by having an unmatched slot after years of filling. They discovered that their time-honored formula of X # applicants = Y # ranks = Z # matches came up short, so they increased the # of applicants to compensate and ensure they filled the following years.

I am very interested to see which programs didn't fill this time around. There are always a few surprises.

BH

My year UCSF and MGH didn't fill. They each had 10-11 spots that year and so matching 9/10 or 10/11 isn't too bad. It usually comes down to not interviewing enough people as programs pretty much rank most all applicatns they interview unless the applicant really turns people off at the interview or new information comes to light after the interview.

 

[yaah]

I do know of one mid-tier program that started interviewing more applicants after being surprised by having an unmatched slot after years of filling. They discovered that their time-honored formula of X # applicants = Y # ranks = Z # matches came up short, so they increased the # of applicants to compensate and ensure they filled the following years.

To be honest, I think programs that do not emphasize lifestyle issues (or do not actively try to correct mistaken assumptions) often have more trouble matching than they would in the past. While "prestige" and program history, expertise, etc, are still important to many candidates, lifestyle is trumping it in many cases. I am relatively shocked by this, to be honest, I can't believe someone would pass up training at a historical program with excellent faculty just so they can not have to work until 8pm. But of course, I am oversimplifying, so no one take too much offense.

 

[Matte Kudesai]

I can't believe someone would pass up training at a historical program with excellent faculty just so they can not have to work until 8pm.

This does seem to be a general trend.... may be a good thing in the long run. Maybe people are getting ready for the digital sign out from home or from a hot tub somewhere....


Medicine in general and pathology have changed quite a bit in the last few years. Work hour rules... 5 years to four years.... subspecialization... PA's... retesting for the boards every decade. Subspecialty labs offering fellowships. Amazing stuff

 

[MasterThespian]

It usually comes down to not interviewing enough people as programs pretty much rank most all applicatns they interview unless the applicant really turns people off at the interview or new information comes to light after the interview.

Haha! I had one panel interview where people were asking me about the hobbies listed on my resume- one of them being acting. So they asked me what kind of productions I had been in, so I said oh, well, some murder mystery dinner theatre, a few plays, commercials, and a few independent films. So then one of them asks what films and I say "well, only one of them ever made it to the big screen (the others ran out of money halfway through) and it had a showing in Austin, which was lots of fun". Then they're like "oh, what was the name of the movie?" and I say "Oh, it was called ... but you won't find it anywhere- it's only available at ... video store in Austin". After the interview, I was terrified they might actually look it up- one of the faculty members was a displaced Texan from Austin so there was a teeny weeny miniscule possibility she might visit Austin and check it out. See, the problem is, the movie is a comedy somewhat mocking organized religion (ala Dogma, but not as good) AND most of the ladies frolic topless at some point (except me) for no reason. However, I DO appear as a horny nun in a bustier making a failed attempt to seduce the Holy Cowboys, who are on a quest to find the AntiChrist and give him an ***-whooping and far too singleminded in their purpose to succumb to my tongue in their ears!

Would that count as "new information coming to light" regarding a candidate? Haha!

Hey-what can I say- I'm a nontraditional applicant who spent many good years chillin' out in the funky town of Austin prior to going legit! If I'd known I was gonna be a doctor someday, there's lots of things I wouldn't have done! Fortunately, only a few of them have video evidence.

 

[mlw03]

To be honest, I think programs that do not emphasize lifestyle issues (or do not actively try to correct mistaken assumptions) often have more trouble matching than they would in the past. While "prestige" and program history, expertise, etc, are still important to many candidates, lifestyle is trumping it in many cases. I am relatively shocked by this, to be honest, I can't believe someone would pass up training at a historical program with excellent faculty just so they can not have to work until 8pm. But of course, I am oversimplifying, so no one take too much offense.

i wouldn't say "trump" but it certainly was part of the equation for me. and training at a historical program doesn't mean that much to me. as long as a program gives me solid training i'm not that concerned about it's position in pathology lore.

you mention not having to work until 8pm, but the difference between 6pm and 8pm 5 nights per week most weeks comes out to a few hundred hours per year - not an insigifnicant amount of time by any definition.

 

[Sean2tall]

I can't believe someone would pass up training at a historical program with excellent faculty just so they can not have to work until 8pm. But of course, I am oversimplifying, so no one take too much offense.

I wouldn't mind working long hours in residency as long as I was doing educational things. I looked for programs where the emphasis was on preview time and sign out. It may just be the calibre of program that I received interviews at, but it seemed that all the places where the residents said they were usually there until 8-10 PM consisted almost exclusively of cutting meat. Not that grossing isn't important, but I'm not sure how grossing prostate biopsies is going to make you a better doctor.

 

[MirkoCrocop]

I am relatively shocked by this, to be honest, I can't believe someone would pass up training at a historical program with excellent faculty just so they can not have to work until 8pm.

I can't believe people still put stock in historical programs and ancient attendings.

We have Wikipedia now, the great equalizer. Sorry!!

Here come my 8-5s!

 

[yaah]

i wouldn't say "trump" but it certainly was part of the equation for me. and training at a historical program doesn't mean that much to me. as long as a program gives me solid training i'm not that concerned about it's position in pathology lore.

you mention not having to work until 8pm, but the difference between 6pm and 8pm 5 nights per week most weeks comes out to a few hundred hours per year - not an insigifnicant amount of time by any definition.

Yeah but see, spending that much more time "in the trenches," so to speak, can pay dividends over your training (maybe, it depends on what you do or don't do with the time). It's all in perspective, I know. Different things speak to different people, and different systems work better for different people. All I know is that the system I am in works for me. I actually don't stay until 8pm that much either. Maybe second year I did a bit, now my days run about 6:30am to 5-6pm, on average.

And sean is right, many programs with long hours are programs that have you grossing uneducational specimens excessively. But I would also say that if you can find a program where you NEVER have to stay late grossing things in or previewing (i.e. doing work), then maybe it's not that great of a place?

Gaining pathology expertise requires putting in time, getting the experience and exposure, getting education, and studying independently. It's hard to do it with just parts of this and come out competent. It's also hard to explain or realize until you are at the tail end of your residency, actually, how important a lot of this stuff is.

Of course, I do agree that "lore" and history mean very little if that is the major selling point! In fact, they mean next to nothing if it isn't the right place for you.

 

[docbiohazard]

To be honest, I think programs that do not emphasize lifestyle issues (or do not actively try to correct mistaken assumptions) often have more trouble matching than they would in the past. While "prestige" and program history, expertise, etc, are still important to many candidates, lifestyle is trumping it in many cases. I am relatively shocked by this, to be honest, I can't believe someone would pass up training at a historical program with excellent faculty just so they can not have to work until 8pm. But of course, I am oversimplifying, so no one take too much offense.

Well, I think more residents have families these days... and so lifestyle is important. Hand in hand with this is cost of living. I can't live in Boston or SF like I can in Texas... if I was single, I could live in a cardboard box in either of those places.

Another thing I discovered is that a lot of the long hours seem to be related to grossing, and not every program is up to speed with PA support. I can see grossing as important to learn to a point, but don't think it's super critical that I have piles of it to do every evening. So I was drawn to programs with more PA support, consequently less grossing burden, and better hours. Previewing, good didactics, attendings who love to teach - I found these in abundance at some non-top tier places, and that was imporant to me.

Another issue is how some of the top-tier programs stick to schedules which essentially require (or almost require) 2 solid years of AP first before any CP exposure for AP/CP residents... I may find myself going into a CP specialty but don't want to go CP only, so want CP exposure early. That wound up being important.

I also wanted to go someplace with a good research track and time/support to do research. I got the best offer from a lesser known place. I met a few attendings from top tier programs who had wound up doing big post-docs post residency to get their research careers going, and I didn't want to fall into that trap.

Anyway, just some random musings on why people might be chosing some of the "lesser known" programs rather than those top tier places... not just "lifestyle" but other things as well...

BH

 

[docbiohazard]

Haha! I had one panel interview where people were asking me about the hobbies listed on my resume- one of them being acting. So they asked me what kind of productions I had been in, so I said oh, well, some murder mystery dinner theatre, a few plays, commercials, and a few independent films. So then one of them asks what films and I say "well, only one of them ever made it to the big screen (the others ran out of money halfway through) and it had a showing in Austin, which was lots of fun". Then they're like "oh, what was the name of the movie?" and I say "Oh, it was called ... but you won't find it anywhere- it's only available at ... video store in Austin". After the interview, I was terrified they might actually look it up- one of the faculty members was a displaced Texan from Austin so there was a teeny weeny miniscule possibility she might visit Austin and check it out. See, the problem is, the movie is a comedy somewhat mocking organized religion (ala Dogma, but not as good) AND most of the ladies frolic topless at some point (except me) for no reason. However, I DO appear as a horny nun in a bustier making a failed attempt to seduce the Holy Cowboys, who are on a quest to find the AntiChrist and give him an ***-whooping and far too singleminded in their purpose to succumb to my tongue in their ears!

Would that count as "new information coming to light" regarding a candidate? Haha!

Hey-what can I say- I'm a nontraditional applicant who spent many good years chillin' out in the funky town of Austin prior to going legit! If I'd known I was gonna be a doctor someday, there's lots of things I wouldn't have done! Fortunately, only a few of them have video evidence.

Hehe I can't wait to see if we both match at Methodist, MT...

BH

 

[CameronFrye]

Yeah but see, spending that much more time "in the trenches," so to speak, can pay dividends over your training (maybe, it depends on what you do or don't do with the time). It's all in perspective, I know. Different things speak to different people, and different systems work better for different people. All I know is that the system I am in works for me. I actually don't stay until 8pm that much either. Maybe second year I did a bit, now my days run about 6:30am to 5-6pm, on average.

And sean is right, many programs with long hours are programs that have you grossing uneducational specimens excessively. But I would also say that if you can find a program where you NEVER have to stay late grossing things in or previewing (i.e. doing work), then maybe it's not that great of a place?

Gaining pathology expertise requires putting in time, getting the experience and exposure, getting education, and studying independently. It's hard to do it with just parts of this and come out competent. It's also hard to explain or realize until you are at the tail end of your residency, actually, how important a lot of this stuff is.

Of course, I do agree that "lore" and history mean very little if that is the major selling point! In fact, they mean next to nothing if it isn't the right place for you.

I agree completely. You have to get the experience and learn something eventually. If you don't put the time in during residency, you'll have to do it once you get out in the real world, where you will have less backup. I'm finishing up my second year and it's terrifying to realize that I'm halfway through residency. I've done a good job of time utilization while a second year, but I kick myself when I think about the time I wasted during my easy first year rotations.

 

[pathstudent]

It usually comes down to not interviewing enough people as programs pretty much rank most all applicatns they interview unless the applicant really turns people off at the interview or new information comes to light after the interview.

Haha! I had one panel interview where people were asking me about the hobbies listed on my resume- one of them being acting. So they asked me what kind of productions I had been in, so I said oh, well, some murder mystery dinner theatre, a few plays, commercials, and a few independent films. So then one of them asks what films and I say "well, only one of them ever made it to the big screen (the others ran out of money halfway through) and it had a showing in Austin, which was lots of fun". Then they're like "oh, what was the name of the movie?" and I say "Oh, it was called ... but you won't find it anywhere- it's only available at ... video store in Austin". After the interview, I was terrified they might actually look it up- one of the faculty members was a displaced Texan from Austin so there was a teeny weeny miniscule possibility she might visit Austin and check it out. See, the problem is, the movie is a comedy somewhat mocking organized religion (ala Dogma, but not as good) AND most of the ladies frolic topless at some point (except me) for no reason. However, I DO appear as a horny nun in a bustier making a failed attempt to seduce the Holy Cowboys, who are on a quest to find the AntiChrist and give him an ***-whooping and far too singleminded in their purpose to succumb to my tongue in their ears!

Would that count as "new information coming to light" regarding a candidate? Haha!

Hey-what can I say- I'm a nontraditional applicant who spent many good years chillin' out in the funky town of Austin prior to going legit! If I'd known I was gonna be a doctor someday, there's lots of things I wouldn't have done! Fortunately, only a few of them have video evidence.

No. That probably wouldn't count. What I am talking about is when an applicant gets an interview early on prior to their application being complete. Once it is complete, you realize there are some red flags.

 

[docbiohazard]

Just wanted to wish everyone a happy Match Day Eve...

Is it 5pm yet??

BH

 

[MasterThespian]

Hehe I can't wait to see if we both match at Methodist, MT...
BH

Woohoo! Let's shake the place up, BH! I vote we die our hair blue for July1 and you show up that first day dressed like Iggy Pop. I'll be Cher in her 1980's Oscar feather headdress. Or maybe you'd prefer more current artists-in that case, I'll take dibs on the Amy Winehouse look. Ah...the looks on their faces.

 

[docbiohazard]

Woohoo! Let's shake the place up, BH! I vote we die our hair blue for July1 and you show up that first day dressed like Iggy Pop. I'll be Cher in her 1980's Oscar feather headdress. Or maybe you'd prefer more current artists-in that case, I'll take dibs on the Amy Winehouse look. Ah...the looks on their faces.

Hmmm yeah, not exactly what I had in mind... I was thinking we'd work hard, have a few laughs, write a lot of papers and go to USCAP... but your way works too, I guess.

BH

 

[MasterThespian]

Hmmm yeah, not exactly what I had in mind... I was thinking we'd work hard, have a few laughs, write a lot of papers and go to USCAP... but your way works too, I guess.

BH

Heehee- yes, I guess I CAN get carried away sometimes . Maybe a happy medium- work hard, laugh, write papers, go to USCAP AND get a little crazy now and then.

Good luck to all on the match!!

 

[docbiohazard]

Heehee- yes, I guess I CAN get carried away sometimes . Maybe a happy medium- work hard, laugh, write papers, go to USCAP AND get a little crazy now and then.

Sounds like a plan... I wonder if we're within walking distance to Valhalla over at Rice...

BH

 

[Minna]

I'm bored too... I thought the results would come out today!

I wanna know who will be working with me in the next July...

 

[HRantz]

I'm finishing up my second year and it's terrifying to realize that I'm halfway through residency. I've done a good job of time utilization while a second year, but I kick myself when I think about the time I wasted during my easy first year rotations.

I feel the same way being halfway through residency, but you have to realize that as a first year resident, you aren't going to get as much out of reading Rosai/Sternberg/Henry as you would later in residency. I kind of wish I had read Robbins over and over again during my first year until I had it nearly memorized.

 

[CameronFrye]

I feel the same way being halfway through residency, but you have to realize that as a first year resident, you aren't going to get as much out of reading Rosai/Sternberg/Henry as you would later in residency. I kind of wish I had read Robbins over and over again during my first year until I had it nearly memorized.

Yeah, that's definitely true. It's a chicken and egg thing. You perform better on service if you read, but you get more out of reading after you've been on service.

 

[Napoleon1801]

oops...

 

[stickyshift]

Ok kiddos, here it is:

1. U Michigan
2. U Alabama- Birmingham
3. Beth Israel Deaconess
4. Cleveland Clinic
5. U Iowa
6. Indiana University
7. U Utah
8. U Texas- Houston
9. U Texas- Galveston
10. U Oklahoma

Our practice has several alums of the Indiana program: good pathologists all.