2013-2014 APPIC (internship) interview thread

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highwayninja said:
Does it limit your chances though? Applying to more sites (I can't remember what the number was... more than 18 I think) actually decreases one's chances, *in general.* We can't say for every individual, of course.
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The November issue of APAGS had a blurb, "86% = percentage of students who matched to an internship when they applied to 21 or more sites during the 2013 match season, according to a survey by APPIC. For students who applied to 11 to 15 sites, the match rate was 82%. Because the difference is slight and is inconsistent with past year's trends, APPIC still recommends students apply to no more than 15 sites."

I really think it depends on the type of sites a person applies to. I know somebody who applied to 15, and most of them weren't a good fit for her. At all. And she limited herself geographically (somewhat). But then I know somebody that applied to 25, and these sites were a very good fit for him. The person who applied to 25 sites is getting a lot more interviews than the girl who applied to 15, but I don't think the main reason he is getting more interviews is because he applied to more sites than she did. It's all about the fit!
 
DenWendt said:
I understand completely, but it's about money not just trying hard. There's a major social justice issue going on here; am I the only one that cringes at the statement of "buying chances"?

The fact that it is so high stakes is all the more reason for a cap of sites. And it actually might be in your own best interest. There will be less people applying for each of the sites that you apply for. You would have more time to putting in high quality, tailored applications and make progress towards on your dissertation.
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If decisions were made on merit alone, it would not be such a gamble. We live in a society in which some of us must work harder, try harder, and be willing to give our last dime to succeed. That is reality.
 
Ann Arbor VA: I have an inside connection there, and I just want to confirm what others are saying. Everyone's invited to the open house and it has no bearing whatsoever on the decisions. As a rule, they don't notify for this, although they say they might notify a few very strong candidates (but I have no idea if this is actually done in practice). The difficulty here--though not for me because I live in the region--is that candidates do not know where they stand and so they're not sure whether it is worth attending. But one thing to keep in mind is that the Ann Arbor VA has an inflated number of positions relative to those that apply. In past years, about 10% of all applicants match there -- a very high rate that approaches the match rates of many sites when restricted only to those who interview!

Hope this information might be helpful for those perplexed about what to do about this site.
 
LightBulb said:
If decisions were made on merit alone, it would not be such a gamble. We live in a society in which some of us must work harder, try harder, and be willing to give our last dime to succeed. That is reality.
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Totally agree with you here. Do I hate the fact that spending more money increases one's chances (at least to a certain point)? Of course. It would be nice if that weren't the case. However, if we're going to have a discussion about social justice (and I think it's a good thing to be discussing!), we might want to start much earlier in the process than applying to internship.
 
LightBulb said:
If decisions were made on merit alone, it would not be such a gamble. We live in a society in which some of us must work harder, try harder, and be willing to give our last dime to succeed. That is reality.
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Another reality, of course, is that some people's last dime runs out a lot faster than other's. And this "reality" is all the more reason for a cap -- in order to improve the odds that decisions are about merit.
 
DenWendt said:
Another reality, of course, is that some people's last dime runs out a lot faster than other's. And this "reality" is all the more reason for a cap -- in order to improve the odds that decisions are about merit.
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I think we would be better off revising the entire system. No other profession does this! While we are at each others throats, other professions have just about pushed us out of any earning potential and yet this profession continues the in-fighting. It makes no sense.
 
siamesekitten said:
The November issue of APAGS had a blurb, "86% = percentage of students who matched to an internship when they applied to 21 or more sites during the 2013 match season, according to a survey by APPIC. For students who applied to 11 to 15 sites, the match rate was 82%. Because the difference is slight and is inconsistent with past year's trends, APPIC still recommends students apply to no more than 15 sites."

I really think it depends on the type of sites a person applies to. I know somebody who applied to 15, and most of them weren't a good fit for her. At all. And she limited herself geographically (somewhat). But then I know somebody that applied to 25, and these sites were a very good fit for him. The person who applied to 25 sites is getting a lot more interviews than the girl who applied to 15, but I don't think the main reason he is getting more interviews is because he applied to more sites than she did. It's all about the fit!
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Yeah, even though I applied to 15, only 12 or so really fit well I think. I've already been rejected from 2 of the 3 that didn't fit as well, so there you go. 🙂 I thought I was pretty broad in my training experiences and interests, but when it came down to it, I really couldn't find that many sites where I could make a good case for the fit. There were maybe 10 *in total*. It really narrows things down when you search with: Counseling Psych ok --> APA accredited --> community or UCCs only --> some emphasis on research or future careers in academia --> ... you get the point. 🙂
 
DenWendt said:
Another reality, of course, is that some people's last dime runs out a lot faster than other's. And this "reality" is all the more reason for a cap -- in order to improve the odds that decisions are about merit.
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So I guess another way to put it is that there are two ways to respond to the "reality" you describe.
 
LightBulb said:
I think we would be better off revising the entire system. No other profession does this! While we are at each others throats, other professions have just about pushed us out of any earning potential and yet this profession continues the in-fighting. It makes no sense.
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Well, I certainly agree with the need for massive restructuring of the internship application process, that's for sure. I'm not sure what you mean, though when you say we are "at each other's throats" and "in-fighting," though.
 
DenWendt said:
So I guess another way to put it is that there are two ways to respond to the "reality" you describe.
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Do you really think that I or almost any student can really afford to spend that much on applications unless it was absolutely necessary?
 
LightBulb said:
Are you me? :ninja:

You sound like me........ :uhno::whoa::hello:

But, I applied at 31 sites..............can anyone top 31? :smack:

I wonder who applied at the least number of sites? :shrug:

:idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea:

Furtherest away in miles from their home? :woot:

Closest to their home? Anyone live above a site they applied to?

This could be fun :hardy: like school reunions....:soexcited:
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Applied to 18 sites. I think I get the furthest away in miles......3,000 miles away from home. Closest to home is about 500 miles.
 
highwayninja said:
Yeah, even though I applied to 15, only 12 or so really fit well I think. I've already been rejected from 2 of the 3 that didn't fit as well, so there you go. 🙂 I thought I was pretty broad in my training experiences and interests, but when it came down to it, I really couldn't find that many sites where I could make a good case for the fit. There were maybe 10 *in total*. It really narrows things down when you search with: Counseling Psych ok --> APA accredited --> community or UCCs only --> some emphasis on research or future careers in academia --> ... you get the point. 🙂
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Exactly! I thought I was going to apply to like 25 sites, but after going through my "maybe" sites a million times, 19 became the magic number. I was the same way, when it came down to it, I just couldn't justify making a good case for the fit for additional sites. But my experiences and interests are different than others. For you, 15 is the magic number, for me, it's 19, for others, it's 31. 😉
 
LightBulb said:
I think we would be better off revising the entire system. No other profession does this! While we are at each others throats, other professions have just about pushed us out of any earning potential and yet this profession continues the in-fighting. It makes no sense.
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Well, medical students do, but they get to graduate first. e_e And they usually match, too.
 
DenWendt said:
Well, I certainly agree with the need for massive restructuring of the internship application process, that's for sure. I'm not sure what you mean, though when you say we are "at each other's throats" and "in-fighting," though.
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It is the basic use of negative automatic thoughts that balance the cognitive distortions brought about by this process. There was a nasty troll on here earlier making horrible comments about people seeking the Psy.D. degree and some start thinking that things would only be better if.....(pick your arguement). The situation is that we are where are, things are as they are and making it stressful for each other helps no one. :shrug:
 
siamesekitten said:
Exactly! I thought I was going to apply to like 25 sites, but after going through my "maybe" sites a million times, 19 became the magic number. I was the same way, when it came down to it, I just couldn't justify making a good case for the fit for additional sites. But my experiences and interests are different than others. For you, 15 is the magic number, for me, it's 19, for others, it's 31. 😉
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Same thing for me. I applied to 14, but I knew that only about 9 of those were an excellent match (and with no geographical restrictions). I just felt like I had to apply to more. But sure enough, I'm 7 for 8 (1 pending) for the excellent matches, and 0 for 5 (1 pending) for the others.
 
What if we just stopped playing the game? What if we made our own council and assigned points for accomplishments and the top students decided where they wanted to go? It would be like a football draft but in reverse. Points would be awarded for publications depending on the journal rank, students in the second year of the match would be given additional points, etc. I know that I am just daydreaming on an internet forum but, it might be interesting. :whistle:
 
LightBulb said:
It is the basic use of negative automatic thoughts that balance the cognitive distortions brought about by this process. There was a nasty troll on here earlier making horrible comments about people seeking the Psy.D. degree and some start thinking that things would only be better if.....(pick your arguement). The situation is that we are where are, things are as they are and making it stressful for each other helps no one. :shrug:
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So, you're starting to think that things would be better if people didn't start thinking about how things might be better?

Sorry, couldn't resist... 😉
 
cara susanna said:
Well, medical students do, but they get to graduate first. e_e And they usually match, too.
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I think having a system in which our careers depend on a statistic is appalling... After all this $$$, loss of $$$ (from not working), time, hard work, and sacrifice, to not get our degree because we fell victim to the "match rate" is disgusting... Our success should depend on our merit, not a poorly thought out system... Just my $ .02
 
futureapppsy2 said:
All:

Many, many apologies for the lack of updates--pressing deadlines have been, well, pressing. I will update the main list tonight. Again, sorry!
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No apologies needed! Thank YOU for doing this 🙂
 
LightBulb said:
Do you really think that I or almost any student can really afford to spend that much on applications unless it was absolutely necessary?
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I have no idea, as I know nothing about you. I do know that some students have a LOT more economic capital than other students, and thus can afford it more than others.
 
odds.gif
 
DenWendt said:
So, you're starting to think that things would be better if people didn't start thinking about how things might be better?

Sorry, couldn't resist... 😉
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LOL! I agree that we SHOULD (oh did I really use that word?) think about how things could be better. But, we can avoid using dichotomous reasoning, over-generalizations, and selective abstraction to arrive at conclusions and push forward agendas that do not address all of the issues.
:beat:
 
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LightBulb said:
Are you me? :ninja:

You sound like me........ :uhno::whoa::hello:

But, I applied at 31 sites..............can anyone top 31? :smack:

I wonder who applied at the least number of sites? :shrug:

:idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea::idea:

Furtherest away in miles from their home? :woot:

Closest to their home? Anyone live above a site they applied to?

This could be fun :hardy: like school reunions....:soexcited:
Click to expand...

I applied to 16 sites after rejecting 6 during the cover letter writing process...I couldn't be genuine in writing the letters, so why would I want to waste my time and theirs?! The farthest for me would be a 1.5 hour daily commute, and two prospective sites are a 20-minute walk door-to-door. 🙂 I know someone who only applied to 5 sites. This person is an awesome clinican (and person) so will likely do well with the chances taken.

Now I lay me down to sleep. 😴
I pray the Internship Training Directors my soul to keep (in mind). :idea:
If I should die before I wake, :eyebrow:
I pray SDNers get my potential interviews to take.:smack:

Ha! Morbid but keeping the faith! (And good luck, WeDoItOnTheCouch & LightBulb!)
 
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I find statements/responses that start with "I don't mean any disrespect" humorous… as we use this language in the South in an attempt to save face when we do mean disrespect or when you know you're being disrespectful by your comment.

I agree with the person's statement who started with that line, but on one condition: there should totally be a cap on number of applications, if there was a cap to the number of interviews one could get. Or a mandatory number of interviews each applicant should receive. I have seen some individuals post on here that they did not get matched last year, yet seem to be getting plenty of interviews this year (which is GREAT!!! I am sure they were qualified for interviews/matches at the time, but fell through the cracks…) but our system has been established with a foundation of competition.

By no means was I able to "afford" the number of sites I applied to, but I am terrified of not matching, and know how much an extra year would cost me, that paying X much this year in hopes to increase my interview net was worth it. I am sure many people paid more money for any number of applications than they had hoped.

We all applied in a different fashion, and will all receive different numbers of interviews (if any), and some of us will not match (facts..). I wish the best luck to us all to at least get the chance to interview and for our voices to be heard. This is stressful and miserable enough without peoples nerves flaring.

Here's to great news next week for ALL of us and for support for and from one another! XOXO
 
According to Mapquest, my furthest is 2,946 miles from my house to their front door. Closest is 15 miles. Was originally applying to 20 sites but ended up narrowing it to 18 at the last minute.
 
DenWendt said:
Same thing for me. I applied to 14, but I knew that only about 9 of those were an excellent match (and with no geographical restrictions). I just felt like I had to apply to more. But sure enough, I'm 7 for 8 (1 pending) for the excellent matches, and 0 for 5 (1 pending) for the others.
Click to expand...

That is really interesting how this is working out for a lot of us...getting interviews to excellent fits, not getting interviews to the "OK" fits. I am noticing the same pattern, and I can't wait to find out how the 10 sites I am waiting on will go!! 😉 I hope your pending sites end up being interviews, good luck! 🙂
 
LikeABoss15 said:
Has anyone heard from Pace University? Their interview dates are Dec. 16 & 17 and January 2 & 3. Considering the first two dates are a week away, it is surprising that I haven't seen anything about them on here.
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I applied there and haven't heard anything yet either.... Thanks Olivia101884 for the info!
 
DenWendt said:
I have no idea, as I know nothing about you. I do know that some students have a LOT more economic capital than other students, and thus can afford it more than others.
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Ok, you can take my word for it then, I do not fit in that category. Even if I did, a thousand dollars for applications is outrageous for anyone to have to pay. I am not about to go to war on the middle class as I hope to arrive there someday! :eyebrow::nod:
 
LightBulb said:
Ok, you can take my word for it then, I do not fit in that category. Even if I did, a thousand dollars for applications is outrageous for anyone to have to pay. I am not about to go to war on the middle class as I hope to arrive there someday! :eyebrow::nod:
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Agreed -- and I hope nothing I have said is construed as going to war on the middle class!

Just to be clear, I am not taking issue with ANY applicants. I am taking issue with the system. More power to you to apply to all the sites you want. But from a system level, if it were up to me, I would impose a cap in order to level the playing field. OK, I'm done with this!
 
cara susanna said:
I dunno, I got rejected by two sites that I thought were excellent fits. I really wish someone would operationally define this idea of "fit."
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+1000000000

Discussions of fit always bug me because no one ever defines it. As far as I can tell, "fit" is a) a way to justify hiring discrimination (rarely, hopefully), b) a way to justify making a decision based on something nebulous that you can't pin down, and c) a way for people who match to pat themselves on the back (as they should, of course!). It does not provide any real feedback to applicants.
 
They could be SO much more specific. Is it past experience matching up well with the site? Training goals? Research interests? Research experience? A certain hours threshold? These things would actually be REALLY helpful to know.
 
The problem is, if every applicant submits more applications in order to increase their chances of matching, it only makes the process harder - for everyone. No matter how many applications you submit, there is a finite number of internships available. When everyone (or even a large number of people) submits more applications, that just means that sites have to put more time and effort into reviewing. They also have to interview a larger number of applicants in order to ensure that their slots are filled: maybe in the past, their typical applicant applied to 15 sites, but now everyone's applying to 25, so that site is less certain that the people they interview are actually interested in them. In the end, applicants pay more money to apply to more sites, and pay to travel to a larger number of interviews, but they're less likely to match at each of the places they interview, because the overall number of interviewees has increased.

I don't think this would ever be implemented, but I think it would actually be better for everyone if there was a cap on the number of places where you could apply.
 
Imposing a cap does not level the playing field because all other things are not equal.
+pity+

WeDoItOnTheCouch said:
I find statements/responses that start with "I don't mean any disrespect" humorous… as we use this language in the South in an attempt to save face when we do mean disrespect or when you know you're being disrespectful by your comment.

I agree with the person's statement who started with that line, but on one condition: there should totally be a cap on number of applications, if there was a cap to the number of interviews one could get. Or a mandatory number of interviews each applicant should receive. I have seen some individuals post on here that they did not get matched last year, yet seem to be getting plenty of interviews this year (which is GREAT!!! I am sure they were qualified for interviews/matches at the time, but fell through the cracks…) but our system has been established with a foundation of competition.

By no means was I able to "afford" the number of sites I applied to, but I am terrified of not matching, and know how much an extra year would cost me, that paying X much this year in hopes to increase my interview net was worth it. I am sure many people paid more money for any number of applications than they had hoped.

We all applied in a different fashion, and will all receive different numbers of interviews (if any), and some of us will not match (facts..). I wish the best luck to us all to at least get the chance to interview and for our voices to be heard. This is stressful and miserable enough without peoples nerves flaring.

Here's to great news next week for ALL of us and for support for and from one another! XOXO
Click to expand...


You are still being me...:wow:


cara susanna said:
Haha, while reading the above discussion about not fighting amongst ourselves I actually thought of the line "don't forget who the REAL enemy is."
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Who? :thinking:

researchgirl said:
View attachment 176863
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futureapppsy2 said:
The APPIC games--where letter writers are sponsors and post-docs are mentors.
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😆:whistle:
 
cara susanna said:
I dunno, I got rejected by two sites that I thought were excellent fits. I really wish someone would operationally define this idea of "fit."
Click to expand...

This. We all talk about and hear about this elusive "fit" construct, but I've been finding it pretty difficult to figure out what that means. I have research and clinical interests that fit in well with many VAs. I can eliminate some that are "too researchy" or "too clinical," for some definition of that relative to me. I can eliminate ones that are psychodynamic, since I don't have much training in that area. I can eliminate ones with an emphasis on rural medicine, since that's pretty different from what I do. That still leaves a lot of sites, though, for which I can make a fairly good case as far as fit goes. I ended up eliminating based on more or less arbitrary factors. As far as getting interviews, I've gotten them both at places where I thought my fit was truly excellent and at ones where the fit was fine but not the greatest. Same goes for rejections. This is all to say that I have found the process to be frustrating and unnecessarily mysterious.
 
cara susanna said:
They could be SO much more specific. Is it past experience matching up well with the site? Training goals? Research interests? Research experience? A certain hours threshold? These things would actually be REALLY helpful to know.
Click to expand...
I absolutely agree with you! :highfive:
 
If you can apply to 31 sites and do a good job, hats off to you! I applied to 17 and thought I might lose my mind towards the end of cover letter writing, supplemental material uploading, and last minute changes when it asked me a million times if I was "really sure" I wanted to submit the application. Time and money both seem to be commodities I'm short on these days. I can find more money on the credit card, but the time of completing 31 applications seems a big enough consequence on its own. It would be nice if people didn't feel they needed to apply to that many, or that they weren't competitive for any sites. I hope it's just the imbalance issue, and that you recognize your skills and abilities that you've cultivated through this doctoral process.
 
DenWendt said:
Agreed -- and I hope nothing I have said is construed as going to war on the middle class!

Just to be clear, I am not taking issue with ANY applicants. I am taking issue with the system. More power to you to apply to all the sites you want. But from a system level, if it were up to me, I would impose a cap in order to level the playing field. OK, I'm done with this!
Click to expand...

I know that when I'm anxious and feel as though I have no power to address the situation directly I have a tendency to engage in stirring debates about the problem with others who experience a similar lack of power as a cathartic release... Occasionally the collective frustration can get a little hostile... Just a random process comment
 
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