2013 Postdoc Applicants

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I accepted one offer verbally after they said they would be moving down the list (after holding it for a weekend) if I didn't tell them by today. If I then get an offer from another site that I also like, can I tell the first site that I would now like to decline the position to accept the second, or will the consequences of this on my career not be worth it?
 
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Member45701 said:
I accepted one offer verbally after they said they would be moving down the list (after holding it for a weekend) if I didn't tell them by today. If I then get an offer from another site that I also like, can I tell the first site that I would now like to decline the position to accept the second, or will the consequences of this on my career not be worth it?
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If you haven't yet signed anything, then as best I know you aren't necessarily bound by the first offer. That being said, yes, it very likely could burn some bridges at the first site (particularly depending on how long you wait). It's essentially up to you to decide if the potential consequences of rejecting the first offer after the fact are made up for by the opportunities at the second site.
 
AcronymAllergy said:
If you haven't yet signed anything, then as best I know you aren't necessarily bound by the first offer. That being said, yes, it very likely could burn some bridges at the first site (particularly depending on how long you wait). It's essentially up to you to decide if the potential consequences of rejecting the first offer after the fact are made up for by the opportunities at the second site.
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I think it's really unfortunate that postdoc sites are in a position to push us into these kinds of decisions, and in my view, it would serve them right if an applicant who was pressured into taking an offer later changed his/her mind. Especially when sites make absurdly early offers - it seems like they're really taking advantage of our anxiety about not getting another offer.

However, I also think that it's potentially a huge bridge burner, and I'd be really cautious about going back on an acceptance, even a verbal one.

I get that "real jobs" are like this as well, but "real jobs" also pay a more livable wage and are more stable (e.g. last longer than 1-2 years). They're also on less of an academic time frame. If you need to fill a staff position after someone leaves unexpectedly, I get that you can't wait around while an applicant decides whether to accept your offer. I don't get how postdocs justify needing a decision in 2 days.
 
Pavlov81 said:
I think it's really unfortunate that postdoc sites are in a position to push us into these kinds of decisions, and in my view, it would serve them right if an applicant who was pressured into taking an offer later changed his/her mind. Especially when sites make absurdly early offers - it seems like they're really taking advantage of our anxiety about not getting another offer.

However, I also think that it's potentially a huge bridge burner, and I'd be really cautious about going back on an acceptance, even a verbal one.

I get that "real jobs" are like this as well, but "real jobs" also pay a more livable wage and are more stable (e.g. last longer than 1-2 years). They're also on less of an academic time frame. If you need to fill a staff position after someone leaves unexpectedly, I get that you can't wait around while an applicant decides whether to accept your offer. I don't get how postdocs justify needing a decision in 2 days.
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I agree to an extent, although I also think that post-docs are simply doing their best to function in the same haphazard system as applicants. Owing to the lack of any sort of truly centralized system or timeline for most specialties, sites basically just have to do what's going to net them the best applicants while also allowing them to continue operating efficiently.

Also, keep in mind that many unlicensed jobs may necessarily pay much more than some post-docs. I do understand that jobs have the added bonus of more longevity, and will of course bump your salary after you're licensed. However, conversely, many post-docs offer additional supervision and training opportunities that aren't available in many jobs.

In the end, though, only having 2 days to decide while you've yet to hear anything from most of your sites does kind of suck.
 
Good luck to everyone going through the postdoc process!

I was curious- is anyone here foregoing the formal process and looking at staff psych jobs? Specifically, with state department of corrections? I'm currently interning with the BOP, but with their application/hiring process, I think it would be in my best interest to apply to some state facilities. Anyone have any insight into good/bad state DOCs to work for?
 
It is a popular and appealing option. Last year I applied for VA staff jobs and was offered one (after interviewing at like 6 others and never hearing a peep). However, the day before the offer my wife had committed to a job in my hometown, which is really where we wanted to settle anyway. I ended getting a real job there too (SLAC faculty).

Another member of my internship class got a staff job in a CC at a small college (which rocks cause he gets staff salary, not crappy post-doc stipend that is typical in CCs), the other works for a PP in her howetown. 'Supervision" is provided in my job, as well the jobs my two friends from internship took. I know people who stuck with BOP after internship, but they had to move to very obscure small town locations. Wasn't really an option for us.
 
One of my friends received a phone call for a phone interview invite yesterday afternoon. Any other UCC news out there?
 
CSOPP said:
Good luck to everyone going through the postdoc process!

I was curious- is anyone here foregoing the formal process and looking at staff psych jobs? Specifically, with state department of corrections? I'm currently interning with the BOP, but with their application/hiring process, I think it would be in my best interest to apply to some state facilities. Anyone have any insight into good/bad state DOCs to work for?
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In my location that don't really hire anyone without a licensure. The VA hospitals also usually require a post-doc fellowship where I live.
 
PHD12 said:
In my location that don't really hire anyone without a licensure. The VA hospitals also usually require a post-doc fellowship where I live.
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GS-11 positions are scarce in CA right now, but I dont think that's an overall trend really. Just seems that they are wanting mostly 12-13 grade right now.
 
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unlkyduck said:
One of my friends received a phone call for a phone interview invite yesterday afternoon. Any other UCC news out there?
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Still total silence on my end... reminds me of internship apps last year. I swear I was the last of my cohort to hear a thing - people had already been on multiple interviews by the time I even got my first notification. Here's to (patiently) waiting!
 
For those more knowledgeable, I could use some advice. I am receiving offers from VAs for postdocs. I am having a hard time deciding between a COE in the West (where I hope to live one day) or the chance to do unique work with a nationally known person at one of the largest hospitals in the Midwest. I like the training in the Midwest better, but I don't want to give up my dream of returning to the west coast. Any suggestions?
They are both only 1 year.
 
Anyone hear from Loyola Marymount Univ post doc in LA?
 
I thought we'd hear something by Friday this week. Surely within three weeks (next week) we'll at least know if we are being interviewed. More waiting...
 
I have a quick question, does anyone know what happens if you commit to a fellowship and then you don't defend by the start date?!? My sites all say that you can't start without the requirements being done. I plan on being done, but don't have a firm defense date and was curious what happens if it doesn't work out as planned. Has anyone heard of this happening? Can they take away your position?
 
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PHD12 said:
I have a quick question, does anyone know what happens if you commit to a fellowship and then you don't defend by the start date?!? My sites all say that you can't start without the requirements being done. I plan on being done, but don't have a firm defense date and was curious what happens if it doesn't work out as planned. Has anyone heard of this happening? Can they take away your position?
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They definitely can, and quite possibly will, take away the position, yes. It's essentially akin to you reneging on the contract by not fulfilling your obligations. This is one of those "worst nightmare" type scenarios for the post-doc site, as they're then essentially stuck without a postdoc for that year (unless they can scramble and find one ASAP), and is why they place so much emphasis on the dissertation status during application reviews and interviews.

Although if it looks like you'd be finished within perhaps a few weeks of your original start date, they might be willing to push things back for you a bit if you can. I'd imagine they wouldn't be very happy about it, though.
 
Bex223 said:
Still total silence on my end... reminds me of internship apps last year. I swear I was the last of my cohort to hear a thing - people had already been on multiple interviews by the time I even got my first notification. Here's to (patiently) waiting!
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Wish I was applying more to VAs and hospitals than UCCs at this point. I've only heard from 1 UCC out of 5 (couldn't even get the other 4 to tell me whether my application was complete). The 1 VA position I applied to, on the other hand, got back to me pretty promptly.
 
PHD12 said:
I have a quick question, does anyone know what happens if you commit to a fellowship and then you don't defend by the start date?!? My sites all say that you can't start without the requirements being done. I plan on being done, but don't have a firm defense date and was curious what happens if it doesn't work out as planned. Has anyone heard of this happening? Can they take away your position?
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Yes. I have heard of at least one person who wasn't able to defend by her start date, and her postdoc site was on the verge of having to rescind her offer. She put pressure on her committee, and they were able to schedule a meeting in time for her to keep the postdoc, but she still wasn't able to start until after she defended, which was about a month after her original start date.

It's definitely not in the best interests of a postdoc site to rescind an offer, since it's unlikely that they'll be able to fill the slot that late in the game. However, I think that (depending on the institution) it may be an HR-type issue - the job description calls for someone who has fulfilled the PhD requirements, and they may not be able to formally bring someone on board if they don't fit the job description.
 
I am trying to decide between a post doc that offers unique training (the only of its kind in the country) and one that is a well respected national centers of excellence for training and education. I am not looking to go into research/academia, but I am hoping that my post-doc helps me land either a VA or other hospital job afterward. Does anyone have knowledge about what is better or what makes me a better job applicant, resume prestige or unique clinical skills?
 
I was hoping for some news today. . . I can't believe how quiet it has been for non-neuro post-docs.
 
psyunknown said:
I was hoping for some news today. . . I can't believe how quiet it has been for non-neuro post-docs.
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Just saw that you were applying to counseling centers. I am non-neuro but did not apply to counseling centers and have heard from all basically at this point. I am sometimes getting only 1 week notice for interviews. In my state, the interviews have to be in Jan. through Feb. because the notification is March at the latest it seems (although there is a rolling process and some sites have started to notify). Once things start moving they move quickly (I heard from 5 or 6 sites within 1 week).

Do your sites have internal candidates? Also, when were your deadlines?
 
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A little encouragement: Some sites are just now finished with interviewing internship candidates, and I don't even think their rank lists are due yet. Interviewing candidates can be a HUGE process at some sites, in addition to fulfilling job duties. This means that supervisors may not even review postdoc applicantions until after the internship process is over (yet, they still require early deadlines...). Last year, I was one of the last in my cohort to hear from sites, most of which were larger VA's, but ended up getting all of my interviews... they really started coming in the first week of February, after the intern chaos had died down. Most wanted to interview pretty shortly thereafter. I know it's a weird process this year with the rolling offers as well, but please remember- not hearing isn't the same as hearing "no"!
 
PHD12 said:
Just saw that you were applying to counseling centers. I am non-neuro but did not apply to counseling centers and have heard from all basically at this point. I am sometimes getting only 1 week notice for interviews. In my state, the interviews have to be in Jan. through Feb. because the notification is March at the latest it seems (although there is a rolling process and some sites have started to notify). Once things start moving they move quickly (I heard from 5 or 6 sites within 1 week).

Do your sites have internal candidates? Also, when were your deadlines?
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I am a UCC person 🙂 The due dates varied from Jan 11 - Feb 1. I don't expect to hear from the Feb 1 people already, but I just feel like the early Jan people should have let me know.

You are right about the moving quickly, I have gotten one interview and it was like a few days notification.
 
psyunknown said:
I am a UCC person 🙂 The due dates varied from Jan 11 - Feb 1. I don't expect to hear from the Feb 1 people already, but I just feel like the early Jan people should have let me know.

You are right about the moving quickly, I have gotten one interview and it was like a few days notification.
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If you have counseling center experience, particularly internship at a counseling center, you should be very competitive for a UCC post-doc. I keep hearing that counseling centers like counseling center people 🙂, and will sometimes not interview people with hospital/va backgrounds. I didn't realize you had feb. 1st deadlines---no wonder they haven't notified you.
 
Here are some updates I've heard from fellow interns. I had one intern receive an interview at the Togus VA today. Another intern received an interview at the Kansas City VA (she heard back at least a week or two ago). Both non-neuro adult. I've heard back from the Houston and Durham MIRECCs (non-neuro research).
 
Heard that Boston Children's Hospital sent out email rejections for the Psych. Consultation track.
 
Has anyone heard from (or know anyone who has heard from) the Long Beach VA? Their app was due over 3 weeks ago, and I thought sure I would hear by yesterday... But nothing. I'm wondering if they haven't notified, or if maybe they have and I just didn't get an interview?

In other news, not sure if this has been posted (but I haven't seen it), West Los Angeles VA emailed out rejections last week. I know they received 32 applications for the one trauma position, so it was pretty competitive... Not sure what the other tracks looked like. I know they've notified about interviews, but since I was a recipient of a rejection email, I'm not sure if it was a phone call or email interview offer.
 
What's standard practice for the APPIC post docs in terms of notifying you if you will not be interviewed? Should expect to hear something from every site or is that unlikely?
 
So if you DO get a Neuro offer, do you contact every single site you interviewed (non match) at to tell them you're out of the running?
 
anonyrat said:
So if you DO get a Neuro offer, do you contact every single site you interviewed (non match) at to tell them you're out of the running?
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I would've contacted match and non-match sites alike if I'd received an offer outside of the match, yep. It would save them the trouble of having to factor me into their rankings, which isn't an insignificant thing.

Edit: And to address psyman's post, I'd be surprised if you didn't hear back something from every site to which you applied, but I suppose it could happen. The standard does seem to be to notify applicants when they're no longer under consideration and/or when a position has closed, though. At least in my limited experience.
 
I've received an interview invite for McLean Hospital's Adolescent ART Program and also from their Hill Center for Women Program. Good luck everyone!
 
UCC followers - I got a phone call from University of Georgia Counseling Center this morning offering an in person post-doc interview. Best of luck to you all!
 
I'm at 5 UCCs and 2 Kaisers thus far, all CA.

It's a pretty tough time of the year to be doing interviews, so I'm experiencing this process to be a stressful balancing act of missing internship time and also completing necessary clinical work. I'll be happy when it's over.
 
AcronymAllergy said:
I would've contacted match and non-match sites alike if I'd received an offer outside of the match, yep. It would save them the trouble of having to factor me into their rankings, which isn't an insignificant thing.
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I think you can just withdraw from the match for the match sites. Then they shouldn't be able to rank you anyways, although I am sure they would appreciate the courtesy of an email or call letting them know you are withdrawing from the match.
 
bum said:
I'm at 5 UCCs and 2 Kaisers thus far, all CA.

It's a pretty tough time of the year to be doing interviews, so I'm experiencing this process to be a stressful balancing act of missing internship time and also completing necessary clinical work. I'll be happy when it's over.
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I hear you! I'm missing an outreach and my second group session for this interview. It's stressful to stay focused on the present demands yet plan for the future. It makes me just want to take whatever I'm offered to have it end!

Congrats on all your interviews! Which UCC's have you gotten interviews at?
 
Pragma said:
I think you can just withdraw from the match for the match sites. Then they shouldn't be able to rank you anyways, although I am sure they would appreciate the courtesy of an email or call letting them know you are withdrawing from the match.
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Yeah, you can definitely just withdraw from the match. Particularly being on this side of things now, though, as you've said, I'd imagine most sites would appreciate the time you'd save them by letting them know they don't need to consider ranking you any longer. I don't know that I'd say it's an obligation, though.
 
AcronymAllergy said:
Yeah, you can definitely just withdraw from the match. Particularly being on this side of things now, though, as you've said, I'd imagine most sites would appreciate the time you'd save them by letting them know they don't need to consider ranking you any longer. I don't know that I'd say it's an obligation, though.
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Yeah, I suppose if they decide only to rank a certain number of people and if they were going to not rank someone else, or if they really spend much time discussing it after making some final decisions. But otherwise, my understanding it is should make absolutely no difference in the outcome whether they ranked you or not.
 
Pragma said:
Yeah, I suppose if they decide only to rank a certain number of people and if they were going to not rank someone else, or if they really spend much time discussing it after making some final decisions. But otherwise, my understanding it is should make absolutely no difference in the outcome whether they ranked you or not.
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Oh, yeah, it likely wouldn't affect the outcome much at all (unless, as you've said, they were only going to rank X number of applicants). My thinking is that it would just save the site the time of having to discuss where you should be ranked, as that can sometimes take a little while.
 
Received an email from Harbor-UCLA clinical (non-neuro) postdoc regarding an interview yesterday morning. As an aside, does anyone know anything about this program or the adult CBT track in particular? This program was new on my radar....
 
Just accepted an offer from my top choice, near where I am from originally. Hopefully this will end the constant guilt trip from my extended family and in-laws for not being around. And even more selfishly, I hope it leads to a lot of free babysitting.
 
HomeworkHelper said:
Received an email from Harbor-UCLA clinical (non-neuro) postdoc regarding an interview yesterday morning. As an aside, does anyone know anything about this program or the adult CBT track in particular? This program was new on my radar....
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I've just heard that the hours were "long" and you had to be on call for the DBT program (this is standard practice at some places). What stood out to me is that they only pay 30K. Seems low for UCLA and considering its in a very expensive location.

I also found out from a friend that Kaiser post-docs do not really get any time off the entire year. They have 10 paid days off, but those include all holidays (christmas, new year) and sick leave. The post-docs do not have time to go on interviews for jobs either. Did anyone else hear about this?

.
 
PHD12 said:
I've just heard that the hours were "long" and you had to be on call for the DBT program (this is standard practice at some places). What stood out to me is that they only pay 30K. Seems low for UCLA and considering its in a very expensive location.

I also found out from a friend that Kaiser post-docs do not really get any time off the entire year. They have 10 paid days off, but those include all holidays (christmas, new year) and sick leave. The post-docs do not have time to go on interviews for jobs either. Did anyone else hear about this?

.
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$30k would be low for LA, definitely, although AMC's tend to use the current NIH fellowship pay rates as a benchmark, which I believe are in the low- or mid-30's. They also, at least from what I could tell when applying, tend not to make locality adjustments. Just using my own personal experience, of the places I applied last year, $30k would've been lower than but one site (which was located in a very low cost of living area).

As for Kaiser, if that's true (i.e., if the 10 paid days off include only holidays and sick leave), that would stink. At my site, we accumulate personal leave at the same rate as all other non-physician employees, which is in addition to federal holidays and the occasionally-approved bit of administrative absence for professional activities (of which the EPPP counts as one, I believe).
 
I've been interviewing like crazy. Its pretty exhausting but a good problem to have (I would complain if I didn't have enough interviews). The interviews vary dramatically. Some are more structured than internship interviews and others are more relaxed/natural. Unfortunately, some places also assume you don't know much.



Good luck everyone! I'm practicing my jujitsu moves!
 
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AcronymAllergy said:
$30k would be low for LA, definitely, although AMC's tend to use the current NIH fellowship pay rates as a benchmark, which I believe are in the low- or mid-30's. They also, at least from what I could tell when applying, tend not to make locality adjustments. Just using my own personal experience, of the places I applied last year, $30k would've been lower than but one site (which was located in a very low cost of living area).
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Actually its 39k at present (http://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/notice-files/NOT-OD-12-033.html).

I'm amazed places that pay less can find qualified people in those kinds of settings (AMCs). Then again, California supply/demand is enough out of whack I suppose they can probably get away with it there - especially if its a primary clinical position and not a clinical/research split.
 
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Ollie123 said:
Actually its 39k at present (http://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/notice-files/NOT-OD-12-033.html).

I'm amazed places that pay less can find qualified people in those kinds of settings (AMCs). Then again, California supply/demand is enough out of whack I suppose they can probably get away with it there - especially if its a primary clinical position and clinical/research split.
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Oh wow, either they must've upped it recently, or I have a very pessimistic memory. Either way, good to know.
 
Ollie123 said:
Actually its 39k at present (http://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/notice-files/NOT-OD-12-033.html).

I'm amazed places that pay less can find qualified people in those kinds of settings (AMCs). Then again, California supply/demand is enough out of whack I suppose they can probably get away with it there - especially if its a primary clinical position and not a clinical/research split.
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I landed a competitive CA post doc and believe me when I say there's no shortage of people applying. Hence the reason there's post docs here that don't even pay and are still hard to get into.
 
Stanford email invite for Skype or phone interview, extended for both GSI and MHP tracks
 
unlkyduck said:
Stanford email invite for Skype or phone interview, extended for both GSI and MHP tracks
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Congrats! Their program looked really awesome. I didn't apply because CA is too far away from life. I wish you luck on the interview. :luck:
 
I had two colleagues hear back from the from the general mental health and LGBT tracks of the Bedford VA (both non-neuro, clinical).
 
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