2013 rank list thread

[st2205]

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I know it's a bit early, but since ranking opened today I figured we could have a periodic on-going discussion. Even though I have one interview left I certified a list today. You know, in case I end up in a coma or get kidnapped between now and February 20. #1 is pretty clear but honestly almost all the other programs could have been #2 at one point or another.

 

[shan564]

I put in a list today, but I wasn't ballsy enough to certify it. It's still a toss-up between my top two...

 

[kindasorta]

I put in a list today, but I wasn't ballsy enough to certify it. It's still a toss-up between my top two...

Spill the beans bro.

 

[kindasorta]

I know it's a bit early, but since ranking opened today I figured we could have a periodic on-going discussion. Even though I have one interview left I certified a list today. You know, in case I end up in a coma or get kidnapped between now and February 20. #1 is pretty clear but honestly almost all the other programs could have been #2 at one point or another.

Spill the beans bro.

 

[shan564]

Mayo and WashU?

Yeah... I think I'm leaning towards WashU, but I'm concerned that it might be because I grew up in St. Louis (but my parents don't live there anymore and most of my friends have either moved away, gotten married, or turned into adults). Mayo is particularly good at the subspecialties that interest me (psychosomatic, pain, sleep), but WashU is generally good at everything.

 

[kindasorta]

Yeah... I think I'm leaning towards WashU, but I'm concerned that it might be because I grew up in St. Louis (but my parents don't live there anymore and most of my friends have either moved away, gotten married, or turned into adults). Mayo is particularly good at the subspecialties that interest me (psychosomatic, pain, sleep), but WashU is generally good at everything.

Dude, you'll be straight with either one. I know we like to construct elaborate predictions of the future based on these rank lists, but in the end, you'll be all good no matter what order you throw those in.

 

[shan564]

Dude, you'll be straight with either one. I know we like to construct elaborate predictions of the future based on these rank lists, but in the end, you'll be all good no matter what order you throw those in.

Yeah, I'm sure you're right, but I still need to make a choice... coin-flip?

But I still have to go to Cleveland Clinic, so that might help to give me another perspective on what Mayo would be like (since they're somewhat similar overall). And they might even sell me on their own program. The same thing happened when I went to Indiana and Florida, which both seem to be fairly similar to WashU... they did a great job of selling their own programs, but they did an even better job of convincing me to go to WashU.

 

[splik]

I DNR'd 2 last year. seriously you had interviewed at plenty of places, do not rank anywhere you would rather SOAP than risk matching into!

 

[deleted452516]

do not rank anywhere you would rather SOAP than risk matching into!

I'm not ranking a couple places.

One is because I don't like being asked intrusive questions about my childhood and personal life by a potential future employer, in addition, I met almost no residents on the interview day- it's like they were hiding them or something. (SUNY Upstate)

The other due to a combination of personal preference for location and condescending interviews that gave me the impression they have low expectations for their residents. (Drexel)

I'm still on the fence about a 3rd place, but Splik's inspiration quote above is pushing me over the edge to not rank it. The location is right, the faculty seems cool, and the patients seem interesting, but I'm not sure about being one of the only residents not on a visa. (Maimonides)

How do you guys feel about using the other candidates on your interview day to judge a program? It obviously isn't as reliable as an impression of the current residents, but the types of applicants they are considering can definitely say something.

I will try to get my act together with full reviews, it's only fair you read more information about these places than my deal breakers.

So yeh, I ended up with a few DNRs, getting kind of worn out by this process... also, I think I need a learjet.

 

[splik]

I'm still on the fence about a 3rd place, but Splik's inspiration quote above is pushing me over the edge to not rank it. The location is right, the faculty seems cool, and the patients seem interesting, but I'm not sure about being one of the only residents not on a visa. (Maimonides)

How do you guys feel about using the other candidates on your interview day to judge a program? It obviously isn't as reliable as an impression of the current residents, but the types of applicants they are considering can definitely say something.

you should absolutely not use other candidates on your interview day to judge a program (as this is not reflective of candidates interviewed in general). you should however look at the current residents. maimonides for instance has predominantly foreign grads. i don't think that necessarily means the program is dubious, some programs prefer foreigners as they get a better deal in terms of people who are already trained and are more grateful to have a job etc. however if you can't relate to your colleagues because they all want to speak in their own language, or are much older etc, then you might not want to go there. in this regard, i think it is perfectly fine to DNR maimonides.

 

[NYCMS2]

you should absolutely not use other candidates on your interview day to judge a program (as this is not reflective of candidates interviewed in general). you should however look at the current residents. maimonides for instance has predominantly foreign grads. i don't think that necessarily means the program is dubious, some programs prefer foreigners as they get a better deal in terms of people who are already trained and are more grateful to have a job etc. however if you can't relate to your colleagues because they all want to speak in their own language, or are much older etc, then you might not want to go there. in this regard, i think it is perfectly fine to DNR maimonides.

The patient population at Malmo is predominately foreign / non-english speaking, too.

Handy languages: Russian and Hebrew.

 

[deleted452516]

you should absolutely not use other candidates on your interview day to judge a program (as this is not reflective of candidates interviewed in general). you should however look at the current residents. maimonides for instance has predominantly foreign grads. i don't think that necessarily means the program is dubious, some programs prefer foreigners as they get a better deal in terms of people who are already trained and are more grateful to have a job etc. however if you can't relate to your colleagues because they all want to speak in their own language, or are much older etc, then you might not want to go there. in this regard, i think it is perfectly fine to DNR maimonides.

Thanks for your thoughts. I will try not to let the other candidates on interview day influence my opinion, it can be hard sometimes though as they very much color the experience. Kind of like how the other medical students on a rotation can really make or break it.

I think my sticking point with Maimonides is not that the program has international grads- who are often great residents for many reasons not limited to their international-ness, but that it has almost exclusively international grads. The other 2 places I DNRed I feel no guilt about, but this place seems like a perfectly solid program, more of a "just not for me" decision.

I thought the diversity of the patient population in the surrounding communities was pretty cool. Definitely some types of patients I might not see other places.

 

[shan564]

The other due to a combination of personal preference for location and condescending interviews that gave me the impression they have low expectations for their residents. (Drexel)

Heh... I'm on my way to Philly right now. Hope mine turns out better.

I'm still on the fence about a 3rd place, but Splik's inspiration quote above is pushing me over the edge to not rank it. The location is right, the faculty seems cool, and the patients seem interesting, but I'm not sure about being one of the only residents not on a visa. (Maimonides)

Yeah, I had that impression too. The faculty were great, and the program seemed great overall, but it's hard not to let your experience be colored by the fact that some of the residents don't even speak English very well. And the facilities weren't particularly nice. But I think it's still a strong program for somebody who wants to be in the NYC area... I think the resident demographics were that way largely because, as splik says, the program tries to get a bargain by shopping for high-caliber IMGs instead of trying to scrape the bottom of the barrel of American grads.

 

[deleted452516]

but I wonder if some of the places I didn't like as much were partly because of super awkward experiences.

The awkward-fests are pretty rough to take.

Other candidates asking weird questions like "is this program ACGME accredited" or "did the interviewer make you cry too"

Residents asking "what other programs have you interviewed with" and then getting scolded by one of the chiefs

A candidate almost choking- mostly just felt bad for this one- but that made it even more awkward.

The most common is just dead awkward silence because no one wants to be that person talking.

On the other end, I had a genuinely good time with a few groups of residents, which definitely bumped those programs up on my list. I'm not saying having a good time at dinner is the only way I'm choosing programs, but it is certainly a factor, along with all the other things that go into making these decisions.

Halfsies?

I'm down if you are. Maybe if we use it as an office to see patients we can write it off as a business expense?

 

[Firewood]

On another note, is anyone else finding the pre-interview dinner (either very awesome or very awkward) factoring into the rankings more than they expected? Some places I went didn't have residents around aside from the meals, so weird interactions are definitely affecting things.

I'm ranking one program much lower than I would have otherwise because of the dinner and resident behavior during the interview day. At the dinner, there were about 5 applicants. About 12 residents showed up, ordered lots of food (including to go dinners & desserts), sat in a large group chatting with each other, and generally made it obvious they were there for the meal and little else. During the interview day, the residents were to put on a presentation for us, but were running late. They didn't bother to let us know what was going on, and the residents in charge of the presentation walked by us multiple times after leaving us waiting without even acknowledging our presence. This was later in the interview season, and I understand being tired of putting on the same show over and over. But I felt like if I had to make an effort to be excited and interested, then they should at least try and do the same.

It's a real shame, too. I loved the city, the program had a lot to offer in regards to clinical experience, resources, and compensation, and the faculty was genuinely interested in teaching. They would have been high on my list otherwise.

 

[deleted452516]

It would be like telepsychiatry, except it could take you somewhere else at the same time (rural clinical sites, vacation). It's multi-tasking...more efficient...a better use of resources...buzzword buzzword.

You've heard of destination weddings, but have you heard of destination psychiatry? We could specialize in exposure therapy for people with fear of flying. Or maybe incorporate some kind of zero-gravity treatment- "let your worries just float away." I'm sure we'll think of something.

 

[st2205]

My current struggle is between Texas A&M and UT San Antonio in addition to OSU vs. OU Tulsa. I loved the family feel of A&M but could see San Antonio as a permanent destination for us. I spent a couple years in Columbus and loved it. My wife's family is close to Tulsa. Liked OSU, but felt it was a bit congested. Loved the feel at Tulsa but not crazy about the separate DO track (especially considering that 2nd year is outpatient and you only have one psych month your entire intern year).

 

[vistaril]

My current struggle is between Texas A&M and UT San Antonio in addition to OSU vs. OU Tulsa. I loved the family feel of A&M but could see San Antonio as a permanent destination for us. I spent a couple years in Columbus and loved it. My wife's family is close to Tulsa. Liked OSU, but felt it was a bit congested. Loved the feel at Tulsa but not crazy about the separate DO track (especially considering that 2nd year is outpatient and you only have one psych month your entire intern year).

go to UT San antonio. Temple, Tx would be one of the most godawful places to live. It's not that it is 'small' because there are a lot of cool places to live that are small. It's just that it is small, nothing to do, and it's just a really bad place to be. To the extent that the residents 'get to know each other and hang out', that's probably because the area is so depressing that they have no choice but to come together and bond.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

go to UT San antonio. Temple, Tx would be one of the most godawful places to live. It's not that it is 'small' because there are a lot of cool places to live that are small. It's just that it is small, nothing to do, and it's just a really bad place to be. To the extent that the residents 'get to know each other and hang out', that's probably because the area is so depressing that they have no choice but to come together and bond.

I personally think Temple would be pretty horrible, too, but other residents there seem to like it, so I guess it works for some people. It's cheap, and I think there's some big lake there. I'd much rather be in San Antonio, though (or Tulsa).

 

[st2205]

I'm a married guy with kids, so it's not that big of a deal for me. However, I think a place like San Antonio (independent of the program) would be great for us with long-term possibility. The program I'm not sure about. It's huge (18 or so residents in the class) and I couldn't get a read on what the program culture was really like. The benefits are pretty poor in general (like 46k, 2 weeks vacation [WTH?] intern year then 3 wks after that). Temple had kids around at preinterview dinner, which was a good sign for someone with kids. I don't necessarily need some place where I hang out with lots of residents as most of my time is spent at home and limited somewhat in that regard. It's a tough decision. UTSA was also nebulous about call, as it wasn't explained at all. Beautiful city.

 

[shan564]

I'm a married guy with kids, so it's not that big of a deal for me. However, I think a place like San Antonio (independent of the program) would be great for us with long-term possibility. The program I'm not sure about. It's huge (18 or so residents in the class) and I couldn't get a read on what the program culture was really like. The benefits are pretty poor in general (like 46k, 2 weeks vacation [WTH?] intern year then 3 wks after that). Temple had kids around at preinterview dinner, which was a good sign for someone with kids. I don't necessarily need some place where I hang out with lots of residents as most of my time is spent at home and limited somewhat in that regard. It's a tough decision. UTSA was also nebulous about call, as it wasn't explained at all. Beautiful city.

Re: salary - consider that Texas doesn't have a state income tax, so your take-home pay goes up a bit.

As far as the city, I'd hate to raise a family in a place like Temple. But that's coming from a guy who doesn't have to raise a family, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[twright]

The benefits are pretty poor in general (like 46k, 2 weeks vacation [WTH?] intern year then 3 wks after that).

Wow, 2 weeks is pretty bad.
Is there any chance that interns have additional time off not included in those 2 weeks? For example, there are some programs where interns get 1 week off either over Christmas or over New Year's (depending on scheduling), and other programs where interns get 1 week off around the time of transition in June.

 

[7tothe14]

UW Madison vs IU

Seems like Madison is a cool town to live in, although I'm not sure if the whole college-town thing would get old after a while. More picturesque than Indy, better access to nature. I like outdoor activities like hiking and running. The program itself doesn't seem to have as many perks as IU. IU has better moonlighting and a more comprehensive patient population. I'm not sure what Indy is like as a town, but I've read a lot of people saying it's cool enough. Low cost of living which is nice.

I guess one hang-up I have is I feel like UW Madison has a better national name. More prestigious I guess you could say. If I'm wrong about that I'd love to be corrected. My end goal is not to practice in either location - national mobility is my highest priority. That's in part why "reputation" and "public perception / prestige" a factoring into my analysis. I realize neither is Columbia, but it's all relative.

 

[7tothe14]

Where do you see yourself in Psych in general? Adult, CAP, C/L, etc?

Probably adult or child.

 

[Elle726]

.

 

[biscuitlover]

longwood vs duke vs brown
UIC vs University of Miami vs BU vs UNC

I think my "gut" is telling me Brown but I am not sure about living in Providence. I am single-ish, no kids, 26 (this saturday happy birthday to me!), moving away from home for the first time, yada yada. Several people who live or have lived in the area suggested providence would not be the best place for me in this stage in my life. That being said, my "support"group away from home mostly lives in the NYC area and Providene is a bus ride away. I also really loved Duke which I did not expect at all. I had really high expectations about longwood and I really, really love Boston. Although I was impressed, I did not get warm and fuzzy feelings about it on my interview day.

The second half of my list I have no idea how I a going to rank it. I guess out of those cities Miami would be the most convenient for me to live, BU and UIC were the residents I felt I fit in with the most and UNC maybe had the stronger program.

my interests so far are child and adolescent and c/l. I am pretty sure I want to stay in academia

Kind of in the same boat as you. I'm coming from the west coast and am torn between MUSC vs. UIC vs. UNC. Such a tough decision. That is assuming they liked me enough to rank me highly

 

[ConfettiMD]

Anyone interview at both UIC and Northwestern? What were your impressions between the two? Northwestern seemed more warm & fuzzy but UIC seems to get more diverse clinical exposure.

 

[shan564]

longwood vs duke vs brown
UIC vs University of Miami vs BU vs UNC

I think my "gut" is telling me Brown but I am not sure about living in Providence. I am single-ish, no kids, 26 (this saturday happy birthday to me!), moving away from home for the first time, yada yada. Several people who live or have lived in the area suggested providence would not be the best place for me in this stage in my life. That being said, my "support"group away from home mostly lives in the NYC area and Providene is a bus ride away. I also really loved Duke which I did not expect at all. I had really high expectations about longwood and I really, really love Boston. Although I was impressed, I did not get warm and fuzzy feelings about it on my interview day.

The second half of my list I have no idea how I a going to rank it. I guess out of those cities Miami would be the most convenient for me to live, BU and UIC were the residents I felt I fit in with the most and UNC maybe had the stronger program.

my interests so far are child and adolescent and c/l. I am pretty sure I want to stay in academia

Based purely on reputation, I'd say that Longwood is probably the best place around for C/L. And probably also for child, but I don't know much about that.

But if you didn't like Longwood, I'd probably pick Duke over Brown. Unless you're interested in neuropsych, in which case Brown is probably the winner.

I've heard that Miami is a rapidly growing program, thanks to Nemeroff... but that also comes with a bit of controversy.

 

[splik]

Based purely on reputation, I'd say that Longwood is probably the best place around for C/L. And probably also for child, but I don't know much about that.

I wouldn't say that longwood was the best place around for C/L but they certainly have a strong medical psychiatry department of BWH and I really like David Gitlin who leads the c/l service. The problem with the c/l experience at longwood is that it is half-time which is fairly annoying if you're getting pages about consult-related matters when you're doing outpatient. the psychosomatic research is led by arthur barsky who is a a big name in the field but does not really have the time to mentor residents. I would say MGH is probably the best place around in that neck of the woods for c/l psychiatry (which is not to say that longwood does not have a fantastic medical psychiatry service) and they certainly have a hard core clinical experience, and some big name researchers (greg fricchione etc). The clinical service is led by Ted Stern who I also really like and is keen on education and mentoring residents. MGH also has this half-time c/l experience but over 4 months. I would say UW is the best place for c/l (both clinical and research) on the west coast. they also have the most requirements for c-l of any program (4months inpatient, 1 month outpatient, and many people do more) and lots of research into collaborative care with well developed outpatient services integrating psychiatry and medicine.

The longwood child experience is reportedly poor (i have no personal experience of this as i don't know any of the faculty except someone on the c/l service at children's). i have no idea why this is, but since you can fasttrack out into whatever child program you want if you absolutely know you want to do child it doesn't matter. if on the other hand you're not sure about child then going somewhere with good support for child is more important.

 

[RagingApathy]

In the spirit of debilitating indecision....who wants to make a rank list for me??

Yale v UT San Antonio v Tulane v UNC

Spouse gets physically ill thinking of moving to New Haven, but I can't stop thinking of how awesome the program is. Is New Haven that bad? Do I only want to go there so I can tell people I trained at Yale? To the people out of residency, does anyone even care where you trained?

My stats - I have a strong app with no history of research and a budding interest in child psych. I have some Southern ties and a need for sunshine. Please find the best program based on the options above. Reward is a satisfying sense of accomplishment - and didn't you go to med school to help people, after all?

 

[kindasorta]

In the spirit of debilitating indecision....who wants to make a rank list for me??

Yale v UT San Antonio v Tulane v UNC

Spouse gets physically ill thinking of moving to New Haven, but I can't stop thinking of how awesome the program is. Is New Haven that bad? Do I only want to go there so I can tell people I trained at Yale? To the people out of residency, does anyone even care where you trained?

My stats - I have a strong app with no history of research and a budding interest in child psych. I have some Southern ties and a need for sunshine. Please find the best program based on the options above. Reward is a satisfying sense of accomplishment - and didn't you go to med school to help people, after all?

You gotta rank Yale first. C'mon man, I don't care if it's in Barrow, Alaska. If your 4 year ago former-self saw that as an option, he would punch you in the face for even asking the question.

 

[vistaril]

You gotta rank Yale first. .

Why?

If the person doesn't want to do academics, Yale isn't going to help him grind 80905's faster and more efficiently. It isn't going to train him how to negotiate the best mixture of outpatient contracts. And if he wants to do cash pay therapy, it may help a little to attract that clientele. but in the end with that population what it all comes down to is this: are you a salesman, and are you bringing it?

Sometimes I wish I had gone to a lesser program than would have taught me more about how to really grind. Of course I've heard some of the smaller and less competitive programs don't have a lot of volume and don't stay busy, but still.....I didn't learn how to grind until I started doing outpatient moonlighting. And from that I've learned way more about how to be successful out of residency than anything else.

 

[kindasorta]

Why?

If the person doesn't want to do academics, Yale isn't going to help him grind 80905's faster and more efficiently. It isn't going to train him how to negotiate the best mixture of outpatient contracts. And if he wants to do cash pay therapy, it may help a little to attract that clientele. but in the end with that population what it all comes down to is this: are you a salesman, and are you bringing it?

Sometimes I wish I had gone to a lesser program than would have taught me more about how to really grind. Of course I've heard some of the smaller and less competitive programs don't have a lot of volume and don't stay busy, but still.....I didn't learn how to grind until I started doing outpatient moonlighting. And from that I've learned way more about how to be successful out of residency than anything else.

As you said, you'll learn what you need to learn when you need to learn it. As far as why, well, having the Yale moniker attached to your name for the rest of your professional life ain't gonna hurt. Of course it will help attract cash pay patients if that's your gig (let's leave aside how much patients like him, because that won't change regardless of program). And all the intangibles: every dinner party, every "where did you train" encounter, if he ever wants to write, it all just goes more smoothly if you have a resume nuke.

 

[vistaril]

As you said, you'll learn what you need to learn when you need to learn it. As far as why, well, having the Yale moniker attached to your name for the rest of your professional life ain't gonna hurt. Of course it will help attract cash pay patients if that's your gig (let's leave aside how much patients like him, because that won't change regardless of program). And all the intangibles: every dinner party, every "where did you train" encounter, if he ever wants to write, it all just goes more smoothly if you have a resume nuke.

1) of course it won't 'hurt'. But the fact that he is debating between yale and lesser programs by name indicates there is something he doesn't like about yale relative to the others. And you know what *does* hurt.....being in a cold place if you prefer warm weather(which I suspect he does based on his other choices). What also can hurt is being away from family/friends if you don't want to be.

2) quite frankly anyone worried about how dinner parties are going to go based on where you went to residency is such a douche that they are beyond help anyways. And furthermore, if he does rise to that level he can always just lie and say he trained at Yale. Nobody at the dinner party will ever find out.

 

[kindasorta]

1) of course it won't 'hurt'. But the fact that he is debating between yale and lesser programs by name indicates there is something he doesn't like about yale relative to the others. And you know what *does* hurt.....being in a cold place if you prefer warm weather(which I suspect he does based on his other choices). What also can hurt is being away from family/friends if you don't want to be.

2) quite frankly anyone worried about how dinner parties are going to go based on where you went to residency is such a douche that they are beyond help anyways. And furthermore, if he does rise to that level he can always just lie and say he trained at Yale. Nobody at the dinner party will ever find out.

You always mention having business sense. Tell me one successful business-mind that says he shouldn't choose Yale.

 

[vistaril]

You always mention having business sense. Tell me one successful business-mind that says he shouldn't choose Yale.

it's very likely that choosing Yale would be business-neutral, depending on what he does.

Given that, if there are other things he doesnt like about yale(and I suspect there is), he shouldn't go there.

Most of the psychiatrists I know who make bigtime money(well for psychiatry at least....it's money that many people in medicine would consider chump change) did not train at a top 10 place.

 

[kindasorta]

it's very likely that choosing Yale would be business-neutral, depending on what he does.

Given that, if there are other things he doesnt like about yale(and I suspect there is), he shouldn't go there.

Most of the psychiatrists I know who make bigtime money(well for psychiatry at least....it's money that many people in medicine would consider chump change) did not train at a top 10 place.

So is your entire calculus in choosing a residency (aside from truly crappy programs with respect to training) where you'd be most comfortable? Seems a little short-sighted given that residency is a small chunk of time in the grand scheme of things, and the name you trained at sticks with you for life.

 

[vistaril]

So is your entire calculus in choosing a residency (aside from truly crappy programs with respect to training) where you'd be most comfortable? Seems a little short-sighted given that residency is a small chunk of time in the grand scheme of things, and the name you trained at sticks with you for life.

no, it's a combination of things.....but a lot of people have families, and that plays a big role.

what wouldn't be an important thing(if you don't want an academic career) is 'name'......in fact it is next to useless.

And no, if you aren't in academics(and even only to a certain degree...many chairs didnt train at a top 5-10 program) it doesn't 'stick with you for life'.....only douches believe this.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

In the spirit of debilitating indecision....who wants to make a rank list for me??

Yale v UT San Antonio v Tulane v UNC

Spouse gets physically ill thinking of moving to New Haven, but I can't stop thinking of how awesome the program is. Is New Haven that bad? Do I only want to go there so I can tell people I trained at Yale? To the people out of residency, does anyone even care where you trained?

My stats - I have a strong app with no history of research and a budding interest in child psych. I have some Southern ties and a need for sunshine. Please find the best program based on the options above. Reward is a satisfying sense of accomplishment - and didn't you go to med school to help people, after all?

Happy Wife=Happy Life.

 

[HCE]

Listen to the Senior Curmudgeon. He is wise.

 

[BS81]

Even in academia, you are ultimately responsible for your own success. Take Jefferey Lieberman, got his MD at George Washington, did residency training at St. Vincent's/NYMC and did a post-doc research fellowship at albert einstein. None of these are "big name" places. With that pedigree he was PI for CATIE and is now chair at Columbia. The people who go to these name places also tend to get "stuck" in academia since that's what the focus of the whole training experience is on. And New Haven sucks. Bad. And if your wife will hate it your life will be miserable. I'd only consider Yale if you want to do specific research that Yale already has the infrastructure for. Otherwise go with family - this is Psych after all, you spend more than half your time with them rather than at work, unlike a lot of other specialties.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Listen to the Senior Curmudgeon. He is wise.

He is married.

 

[m1345]

Also, my understanding is that it would help to train in the place that you see yourself practicing. Not that it's a contraindication to train in a city you won't want to live long term, but it's certainly a consideration. The Yale name might not mean as much to your southern community, who's residents trust in the local university system.

On a different but also mentioned subject, I hear a lot about the value of clinically intense training. I'm going back and forth about whether I value an "intense" experience vs less intense/less stress in residency training. Has anyone trained somewhere they they feel did not prepare them adequately (from a clinical, not business standpoint) for their work as an attending? Probably a hard question to answer in isolation....but I guess also asking whether they felt less prepared then their peers who trained at a particularly intense program?

 

[LimbicResponse]

Lieberman is the exception rather than the rule, but I would still go with family if I were you

 

[BS81]

Lieberman is the exception rather than the rule, but I would still go with family if I were you

If you're planning on a big time research career you'll be putting work ahead of family all of your life, so I guess you might as well start now... If you want world wide fame you have to sacrifice for it.

 

[BS81]

Anyone interview at both UIC and Northwestern? What were your impressions between the two? Northwestern seemed more warm & fuzzy but UIC seems to get more diverse clinical exposure.

That's the impression I got. Northwestern will prep you well to do cash-only on Michigan Ave., UIC has a really really sick patient population.

 

[Elle726]

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[MDchouette]

I wouldn't say that longwood was the best place around for C/L but they certainly have a strong medical psychiatry department of BWH and I really like David Gitlin who leads the c/l service. The problem with the c/l experience at longwood is that it is half-time which is fairly annoying if you're getting pages about consult-related matters when you're doing outpatient. the psychosomatic research is led by arthur barsky who is a a big name in the field but does not really have the time to mentor residents. I would say MGH is probably the best place around in that neck of the woods for c/l psychiatry (which is not to say that longwood does not have a fantastic medical psychiatry service) and they certainly have a hard core clinical experience, and some big name researchers (greg fricchione etc). The clinical service is led by Ted Stern who I also really like and is keen on education and mentoring residents. MGH also has this half-time c/l experience but over 4 months. I would say UW is the best place for c/l (both clinical and research) on the west coast. they also have the most requirements for c-l of any program (4months inpatient, 1 month outpatient, and many people do more) and lots of research into collaborative care with well developed outpatient services integrating psychiatry and medicine.

The longwood child experience is reportedly poor (i have no personal experience of this as i don't know any of the faculty except someone on the c/l service at children's). i have no idea why this is, but since you can fasttrack out into whatever child program you want if you absolutely know you want to do child it doesn't matter. if on the other hand you're not sure about child then going somewhere with good support for child is more important.

Gotta disagree about our child experience. I liked it. Most residents do. We don't have the option of doing outpatient child, which some other programs do.

 

[Elle726]

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[shan564]

In the spirit of debilitating indecision....who wants to make a rank list for me??

Yale v UT San Antonio v Tulane v UNC

Spouse gets physically ill thinking of moving to New Haven, but I can't stop thinking of how awesome the program is. Is New Haven that bad? Do I only want to go there so I can tell people I trained at Yale? To the people out of residency, does anyone even care where you trained?

My stats - I have a strong app with no history of research and a budding interest in child psych. I have some Southern ties and a need for sunshine. Please find the best program based on the options above. Reward is a satisfying sense of accomplishment - and didn't you go to med school to help people, after all?

Tell you what... you rank Yale, I'll rank San Antonio, and then we'll trade. Everybody wins.

My 2 cents... I did a rotation at Tulane, and the psych residents didn't seem like a particularly happy bunch. And they're dealing with huge budget cuts in Louisiana right now.

I'd probably rank UNC above UTHSCSA based purely on reputation, but I did interview at UTHSCSA and thought that it seemed like a great place. And between the four locations, I think that San Antonio is the winner.

A lot of people talk about New Haven as a dealbreaker for the family, but why don't they just live in the southern outskirts of Hartford (or some other town in CT) and commute to New Haven? It's not that far.