2015-16 PM&R Application Cycle
Started by j4pac
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There's a shuttle that will pick you up in the morning. Just talk to the front desk at the hotel. Or you can talk to the residents at the dinner. They picked us up for dinner, provided a ride to and from the hospital, and back to the airport if needed. I had no idea rather until the night before. The day ended around 1. I think it started at 7:30ish. The front desk can tell you for sure.
Thank you! I am tied up in travels and am not sure I will make it in time for the dinner. I am glad to hear the hotel knows.
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Silly question but Georgetown and NRH are the same program, right? Not sure why they're listed separate on the running list of invites..
Alabama:
UAB - 10/12
Arkansas:
University of Arkansas (10/14)
California:
Loma Linda - 10/12 (Wed)
UC Davis - 10/19 (Fri/Sat in January)
D.C.:
Georgetown - 10/12
NRH - 10/14
Florida:
Miami/Jackson Memorial - 9/28 (Fri); 10/14 (Available dates 10/21,27&28)
USF - 10/19 (Monday and Friday)
Georgia:
Emory - 10/7
Illinois:
Loyola-10/2
Schwab-10/12 (M, W, F interviews)
Marianjoy-10/15 (Thursday, Friday interviews) Nov 5,6,12,13,19,20; Dec 3,4,10,11,17,18; Jan 14,15
RIC-10/19 (Tuesdays and Wednesdays - no dates provided)
Indiana:
Indiana University- 9/23 (Wed interviews)
Kansas:
KU-10/5
Second wave of Kansas Interviews (10/14):
November 6,November 13, December 11, December 18 and January 8. Please note, December 11,December 18 and January 8 are being wait-listed right now.
Kentucky:
University of Louisville. Notified 9/28 (Mon & Fri)
University of Kentucky - Notified October 12
Louisiana:
LSU - 9/17 (10/22 - waitlist)
Maryland:
Johns Hopkins - 10/2
Sinai Hospital of Baltimore - 10/1 (Tues interviews)
Massachusetts:
Tufts - 10/15: (12/12; 1/9; 1/23)
Harvard/Spaulding - 9/23
Michigan:
Rehab Institute of Michigan/Wayne State - 9/21
William Beaumont Hospital - 10/22
Minnesota:
Mayo - 10/7
University of Minnesota - 10/27: (thu/fri interviews; 12/3, 12/4, 12/10, 12/11, 12/17, and 12/18)
Missouri:
University of Missouri-Columbia- 9/21 (Fri interviews)
Washington University - 10/2 (Thurs & Fri)
New York:
Albany Medical Center - 9/22 (Wed)
Hofstra North Shore LIJ - 9/21
Kingsbrook - 9/30
Nassau University Medical Center - 9/21 (Mostly Fri)
New York Medical College (Metro) 10/5 (Fri Interviews)
New York Presbyterian - 10/13 (Thurs Interviews)
Rochester - 9/28; 10/21 (11/13, 12/11)
Stony Brook - 10/5; 10/15 (only 11/12 interview date)
SUNY Upstate- 9/23 (Mon/Fri interviews)
Montefiore/Einstein. Notified 10/6 (Mon only)
Mount Sinai- 10/15 (Tues only)
NYU Langone-10/16 (Fri only); 10/20 for Advanced (11/6-1/22)
New Jersey:
JFK- 9/28 (Tue/ Fri)
Rutgers New Jersey/Kessler- 10/9 (Wed/Fri Interviews)
North Carolina:
ECU/Vidant - 9/21 (Second Wave 10/15 - Interviews on 11/2, 11/6, 12/2, 12/9, 12/16)
Carolinas - 9/18 (Mon and Fri interviews 11/16-12/18)
UNC Chapel Hill - 10/8 (select Mon and Fri interviews 11/2 - 12/11); 10/20 (waitlist)
Ohio:
Ohio State - 9/18
Case western - 9/23 (mon and fri interviews)
Cleveland clinic- Notified 9/29
University of Toledo - 10/23 (Fri interviews 11/13 - 1/8)
Pennsylvania:
Penn State - 9/22
Temple/Moss Rehab - 9/23
UPMC - 9/25 (mostly Thurs)
UPenn - 10/2
Thomas Jefferson - 10/6 (select W 10/14-1/6)
Tennessee:
Vanderbilt - 9/24 (M/T, or W/Thurs)
Texas:
Baylor (Houston) - 9/22
Baylor (Dallas) - 10/19 (Tuesday interviews Nov 17 - Jan 19)
UT Southwestern - 9/28 (Wed and Fri)
UT Health Science Center Houston- 10/9 (Friday interviews)
UT Austin - 10/16 (Tues and Thurs thru broker)
UT Health Science Center San Antonio - 10/19 (W/F)
Utah:
University of Utah: 10/23 (11/6,11/9,11/13,11/16)
Virginia:
UVA - 9/15 (Thurs interviews)
VCU - 9/17 (Fri interviews)
EVMS- 10/23 (Fri interviews)
Washington:
University of Washington - 9/16 (Fri interviews)
Wisconsin:
Medical College of Wisconsin - 9/29 (Mon, Fri interviews)
University of Wisconsin -10/02; 10/16 (12/11, 12/18)
UAB - 10/12
Arkansas:
University of Arkansas (10/14)
California:
Loma Linda - 10/12 (Wed)
UC Davis - 10/19 (Fri/Sat in January)
D.C.:
Georgetown - 10/12
NRH - 10/14
Florida:
Miami/Jackson Memorial - 9/28 (Fri); 10/14 (Available dates 10/21,27&28)
USF - 10/19 (Monday and Friday)
Georgia:
Emory - 10/7
Illinois:
Loyola-10/2
Schwab-10/12 (M, W, F interviews)
Marianjoy-10/15 (Thursday, Friday interviews) Nov 5,6,12,13,19,20; Dec 3,4,10,11,17,18; Jan 14,15
RIC-10/19 (Tuesdays and Wednesdays - no dates provided)
Indiana:
Indiana University- 9/23 (Wed interviews)
Kansas:
KU-10/5
Second wave of Kansas Interviews (10/14):
November 6,November 13, December 11, December 18 and January 8. Please note, December 11,December 18 and January 8 are being wait-listed right now.
Kentucky:
University of Louisville. Notified 9/28 (Mon & Fri)
University of Kentucky - Notified October 12
Louisiana:
LSU - 9/17 (10/22 - waitlist)
Maryland:
Johns Hopkins - 10/2
Sinai Hospital of Baltimore - 10/1 (Tues interviews)
Massachusetts:
Tufts - 10/15: (12/12; 1/9; 1/23)
Harvard/Spaulding - 9/23
Michigan:
Rehab Institute of Michigan/Wayne State - 9/21
William Beaumont Hospital - 10/22
Minnesota:
Mayo - 10/7
University of Minnesota - 10/27: (thu/fri interviews; 12/3, 12/4, 12/10, 12/11, 12/17, and 12/18)
Missouri:
University of Missouri-Columbia- 9/21 (Fri interviews)
Washington University - 10/2 (Thurs & Fri)
New York:
Albany Medical Center - 9/22 (Wed)
Hofstra North Shore LIJ - 9/21
Kingsbrook - 9/30
Nassau University Medical Center - 9/21 (Mostly Fri)
New York Medical College (Metro) 10/5 (Fri Interviews)
New York Presbyterian - 10/13 (Thurs Interviews)
Rochester - 9/28; 10/21 (11/13, 12/11)
Stony Brook - 10/5; 10/15 (only 11/12 interview date)
SUNY Upstate- 9/23 (Mon/Fri interviews)
Montefiore/Einstein. Notified 10/6 (Mon only)
Mount Sinai- 10/15 (Tues only)
NYU Langone-10/16 (Fri only); 10/20 for Advanced (11/6-1/22)
New Jersey:
JFK- 9/28 (Tue/ Fri)
Rutgers New Jersey/Kessler- 10/9 (Wed/Fri Interviews)
North Carolina:
ECU/Vidant - 9/21 (Second Wave 10/15 - Interviews on 11/2, 11/6, 12/2, 12/9, 12/16)
Carolinas - 9/18 (Mon and Fri interviews 11/16-12/18)
UNC Chapel Hill - 10/8 (select Mon and Fri interviews 11/2 - 12/11); 10/20 (waitlist)
Ohio:
Ohio State - 9/18
Case western - 9/23 (mon and fri interviews)
Cleveland clinic- Notified 9/29
University of Toledo - 10/23 (Fri interviews 11/13 - 1/8)
Pennsylvania:
Penn State - 9/22
Temple/Moss Rehab - 9/23
UPMC - 9/25 (mostly Thurs)
UPenn - 10/2
Thomas Jefferson - 10/6 (select W 10/14-1/6)
Tennessee:
Vanderbilt - 9/24 (M/T, or W/Thurs)
Texas:
Baylor (Houston) - 9/22
Baylor (Dallas) - 10/19 (Tuesday interviews Nov 17 - Jan 19)
UT Southwestern - 9/28 (Wed and Fri)
UT Health Science Center Houston- 10/9 (Friday interviews)
UT Austin - 10/16 (Tues and Thurs thru broker)
UT Health Science Center San Antonio - 10/19 (W/F)
Utah:
University of Utah: 10/23 (11/6,11/9,11/13,11/16)
Virginia:
UVA - 9/15 (Thurs interviews)
VCU - 9/17 (Fri interviews)
EVMS- 10/23 (Fri interviews)
Washington:
University of Washington - 9/16 (Fri interviews)
Wisconsin:
Medical College of Wisconsin - 9/29 (Mon, Fri interviews)
University of Wisconsin -10/02; 10/16 (12/11, 12/18)
Just heard from them today
Cali programs historically get their invites out late...likely because the weather is so awesome that they can hold interviews through January. In general, yes...the interviews from this point forth will come at a crawl...but there will tons issued...only at a slower pace. I'm pretty sure my half way point was early November last year.
so this mysterious "second batch/wave" of invites...do most of the programs send these out? Or is it just some programs, if they have a cancellation they email out looking to fill it? I have 9 invites so far. If I am interested in a program but didn't get invited, is this second batch thing worth waiting for or should I be emailing the PC?
Watch for rejections. If the program has issued rejections...and you aren't rejected...that is when I would inquire about a space-A interview. Otherwise, I would probably wait until mid-November or so to start inquiring about open spots, because there are still about half of the interviews yet to be granted at this point.
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Thanks j4pac. Love your input on this forum.
Right there with you...
The PC has had an emergency and is out of the office. They may be delayed contacting you because of that.
Awesome, thank you for the update!
Lol my bad. I just meant it was awesome to have an update.
But I really hope everything is alright for the PC!
Zzzzing
I still think there are a lot of invites going out. I went from 2 invites 2 1/2 weeks ago to 12 now and 3 rejections after applying to 41 programs. Starting to have trouble fitting things. It's so hard to turn any down though because I feel like it was such a struggle to get here! Wish I would get some prelims though.
I'm in the same boat as you, I'd love some more prelims. Most of the programs I've received invites from have interviews on Fridays so it's getting tough to schedule.
But congrats on getting 12 so far!! I'm sure more will be coming in soon along with TY and prelims. Just keep the faith! 🙂
You guys stay patient about prelims -- I didn't get most of my invites until later in the cycle (post-Thanksgiving) when I was going through the process.
Also, contact the PM&R programs you have interviews to and ask about any associated spots with IM at the university/hospital may have for PGY1 year. I remember several places reserved a PGY1 spot for a PM&R intern.
Good luck to everyone.
Also, contact the PM&R programs you have interviews to and ask about any associated spots with IM at the university/hospital may have for PGY1 year. I remember several places reserved a PGY1 spot for a PM&R intern.
Good luck to everyone.
I have heard that programs will hold prelim spots for PM&R. When is the best time to ask about a PY/TY? Is it when they offer you an interview or should I ask at the interview? Thanks for sharing too. I feel better about the timeline now.
Out of the programs on the list...I interviewed at BCM, UTH, and Mayo. It's not even close...Mayo in a landslide. I have yet to meet either a Mayo alumni or resident who didn't believe that Mayo had the best outpatient training on the planet. I love the curriculum. A 7 month block of EMG/anatomy is incredibly appealing to me. Only program that you can sit on EMG boards after residency. Mayo also appears to be the program most dedicated to Ultrasound guided injections...likely because of the father of ultrasound-guided MSK injections is on staff, Jay Smith. You tie in their EMG/anatomy curriculum and ultrasound guided procedures...and I don't think that there is any question that Mayo is one of the top (if not the top) outpatient program.
I didn't interview at many of the other sites you listed...and I am sure that all the options you get are going to be heavily laced with bias.
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Keeping Us Honest:
I far as I know, there are no programs that let your sit for EMG Boards (ABEM certification) just after residency. You must have an additional 200 studies performed post residency to sit for EMG boards (see below). I'd be surprised if Mayo was the only exception
From: http://www.abemexam.org/getmedia/84...d5ad74/2015-Candidate-Information-Packet.aspx
"Candidates...must also document at least 1 year of experience following training during which they must perform 200 additional complete electrodiagnostic evaluations on separate occasions. This period of independent experience can only begin after satisfactory completion of the approved residency training program and the 6 month preceptorship."
On the other side of prelims, do you guys have a max number to go on or heard of a safe number without overdoing it?
Just going off of what I hear. Maybe...I've heard wrong. I got my information from senior residents at the program.
Either way...I don't think anyone will question that Mayo is an elite outpatient program.
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Just curious if anyone else besides the original poster has heard from Minnesota? I hope I'm just being paranoid for not hearing yet but they are among my top choices and just wanted to get a sense if their first wave is already done.
I feel the EXACT same way. They were the one program I "assumed" / really hoped to get an interview from.
Does anyone have suggestions for hotels near Thomas Jefferson? Preferably one that offers a shuttle from the airport and to the University. I tried emailing the coordinator for suggestions, but haven't heard back yet. Thanks in advance!
Oh, same with any suggestions for U Louisville and Arkansas.
Oh, same with any suggestions for U Louisville and Arkansas.
Last year...
No hotel shuttles to City Center.
Interview was at Magee (not TJ University). Google map the distance...it's a nice walk. From Magee they drove us in a van to TJ. We ate near TJ...then they paid for a taxi to get back to Magee. I stayed in a hotel 5 minute walk to Magee. Wise decision.
Louisville...I shuttled to the hotel (Hampton Inn). I think I just tipped the shuttle driver. They shuttled me to Frazier...got a ride back to the hotel...shuttle got me back to the airport.
Didn't apply to Arkansas.
Which hotel was it that you stayed in for a 5 minute walk to Magee?
Le Meridian. It was a nice place...admittedly the most expensive hotel I stayed at on my trial. It had a pretty good little breakfast diner on the way to Magee. Not many dinner spots...in the immediate are other than McDonalds (ugh) but there are lots of restaurants within a 15-20 min walk. The area was about as safe as downtown Philly gets.
In the past, I thought that Mayo had techs who did the nerve conduction study portions of the NCS/EMG test (so basically you just do the needle EMG portion of the exam). Do you know if this is still the case?
Imagine this: medical students/schools have all their ERAS stuff submitted Sept 1. EVERY SINGLE residency has to send their first wave of invites out by the end of September. Students get one week to accept or reject all the invitations they have. Then residencies respond by sending out their second wave of invites by mid october to fill the spots they still have open. This way no one has to hoard invitations, no guessing if programs haven't sent out, much easier scheduling, fewer time conflicts and canceling of late interviews. Just been talking with my husband about how crazy this process is, and since we are such problem solvers this is our solution 
of course, implementation is going to be an issue 😉
of course, implementation is going to be an issue 😉
Good question. @MedBronc23 @DOctorJay would be able to give you a better answer than me.
Also...to f/u on the topic of EMG board eligibility for Mayo residents...this comes directly from Mayo's website, and it is mentioned twice:
Electromyography Laboratory
You gain extensive experience in electromyography during this unique six-month rotation in the Electromyography Laboratory. You perform enough electromyographic studies to qualify for certification by the American Board of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation.
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I can't personally confirm, but I have heard from 3 people U of Cincinnati sent out interviews a while ago. I don't see it on the list yet so if someone can confirm or not. Still hoping to interview with them!!
I think that quote is referring to the fact you will get at least 200 EMGs and can sit for the PM&R boards (vs. electrodiagnostic medicine). From the ABEM website:
Training in Electrodiagnostic (EDX) Medicine
A period of preceptorship in EDX medicine that is coordinated with presentation of didactic material must be satisfactorily completed under direct supervision of an experienced EDX medicine consultant, preferably an ABEM Board Diplomate. This preceptorship may be taken during and/or after an approved residency training program. The period of preceptorship must be at least 6 months fulltime, or equivalent*, with the first 3 months rigidly structured with regard to supervision. Any postresidency course of study in EDX medicine must be conducted where there is an ACGME, AOA, or RCPSC recognized neurology or physiatry residency training program, or at a participating institution to a sponsoring institution that has been approved by the ACGME in order to qualify as a portion of the 6-month preceptorship. During these 6 months, at least 200 complete EDX evaluations must be performed on separate occasions; these studies must be documented and interpreted.
Independent Experience
Competency in electrodiagnostic medicine can only be achieved by performing and interpreting additional electrodiagnostic examinations. Candidates, therefore, must also document at least 1 year of experience following training during which they must perform 200 additional complete electrodiagnostic evaluations on separate occasions. This period of independent experience can only begin after satisfactory completion of the approved residency training program and the 6-month preceptorship. The year of independent experience may be part of a postresidency program (e.g., fellowship) which includes the practice of electrodiagnostic medicine. The time spent in such a postresidency program beyond the minimum 6 months preceptorship may be counted toward the 1 year of independent experience.
You do need to be PM&R board-certified (or neuro, etc.) before you can sit for the EMG boards--I imagine the Mayo grads that pursue EMG board certification perform the additional 200 EMGs in that timeframe. Mayo has a fellowship you can pursue as well.
Regardless, you can't beat Mayo for EMG/MSK/outpatient PM&R training.
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It appears that Mayos residency curriculum fulfills the "preceptorship" portion of board eligibility. It is a 6-month block with anatomy, lectures, and tons of EMGs. That takes place PGY-3. Every resident at Mayo gets that very important set completed, and from what I understand residents from every other program in the country would have to do a fellowship to fulfill the preceptorship requirement.
I missed a very important statement...
"1 year of experience following training during which they must perform 200 additional complete electrodiagnostic evaluations on separate occasions. This period of independent experience can only begin after satisfactory completion of the approved residency training program and the 6-month preceptorship."
So it appears that the 1-year individual experience of more than 200 EMGs can only take place AFTER completing residency. However, that individual training doesn't have to be fellowship, it can be in practice. And it also doesn't give a timeline to complete the 200 EMGs. So at any time after completion of residency at Mayo, if you have completed 200+ individually performed EMGs...you are board eligible. Considering that it is almost impossible not to get 200 EMGs in practice at some point...it is pretty safe to say that conpleting Mayo PM&R residency guarantees board eligibility in EMG at some point in your career.
Not all will want to fork out the money and effort to do it though.
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At the very least, yes, Mayo residency fulfills the preceptorship part. I would argue the bigger advantage is I highly doubt Mayo EMGs consist of mostly carpal tunnel syndrome studies--you will probably see a lot of pathology at Mayo you won't see elsewhere. The 200+ EMGs required during PM&R residency doesn't necessarily mean that residents will actually be that well trained in EMG. Up until recently, those 200 EMGs could be mostly observed EMGs--now we're required to perform at least 150 of the 200 EMGs we participate in. In addition, at some programs you may be only doing part of the study (there may be a few residents working together, one doing NCS, the other EMG, for example), so one study at one program doesn't mean as much experience as a study at another program. And as I mentioned, if the majority of your 200 studies are "r/o CTS" then you're missing out on a lot of learning. I imagine Mayo is getting a lot more odd stuff not as commonly (if ever) seen elsewhere. Add in the unique classroom education portion of the EMG course, and I think that's the real advantage that Mayo offers.
However, I'm not sure if residents from all other programs will need to do a fellowship. Two of our recent grads are trying to get their 200+ independent EMGs done right now so they can sit for EMG boards. We only have 4 months of dedicated EMG rotation. With our dedicated EMG lectures and case studies added in (which are separate from those 4 months), it's possible that adds up to 6 months total, though I'm really not sure. (Apparently reading counts too per the website--I don't know how that gets tracked...) I didn't know about the preceptorship part until today, so I never asked the recent grads that are trying to get EMG boarded whether our program fulfills that requirement (I guess it would if they used elective time to do more EMGs).
If those 6 months have to be continuous (which isn't clear on the website), then I think you're right that any non-Mayo grad would need to do a fellowship. Hopefully my colleagues looked into that...
no PM&R resident has to do a fellowship, you graduate start doing EMGs record 200 independently then take the test. Most that do fellowship do so out of interest, not necessity. That's the advantage over neurology.
Agreed, but if you're having techs do the nerve conduction studies and just doing the needling/motor unit analysis, I think you're missing out on the opportunity for a lot of educational value. In my mind, the 200 NCS/EMG number is in place so that you are familiar enough with the bread and butter cases that will come in (CTS, ulnar neuropathy, peripheral neuropathy, radics). Exposure to more complex presentations is important to recognize (and would be a great asset during residency training), but shouldn't substitute for the basics.
