2016-2017 "What are my Chances?" thread

[psychgrad17]

Step 1: 25o's
Step 2 CK/ CS: taking both in June
School: Midwest allopathic, not a top tier school
Class Rank: don't know, but I honored every course in the first two years
Grades in Clerkship: Honors in Psych and one other course. Everything else so far is a Pass
AOA: no
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: I worked on a psychology research project for my thesis in undergrad, and was a research assistant in a clinical psychology lab full time just before med school. No publications resulted, and I haven't done any research or poster presentations since I entered med school. I am currently giving Step 1 prep lectures and tutoring for our med students.
Red Flags: (step failures, etc): none
Overview of where you want to end up: The Northwest and the Northeast (including non-coastal rural areas). Since these are are highly sought after areas, do you think I'm competitive enough to apply almost exclusively to residencies here? My current application list, for example, is 90% Northwest and Northeast residencies.

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[WingedOx]

Step 1: 25o's
Step 2 CK/ CS: taking both in June
School: Midwest allopathic, not a top tier school
Class Rank: don't know, but I honored every course in the first two years
Grades in Clerkship: Honors in Psych and one other course. Everything else so far is a Pass
AOA: no
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: I worked on a psychology research project for my thesis in undergrad, and was a research assistant in a clinical psychology lab full time just before med school. No publications resulted, and I haven't done any research or poster presentations since I entered med school. I am currently giving Step 1 prep lectures and tutoring for our med students.
Red Flags: (step failures, etc): none
Overview of where you want to end up: The Northwest and the Northeast (including non-coastal rural areas). Since these are are highly sought after areas, do you think I'm competitive enough to apply almost exclusively to residencies here? My current application list, for example, is 90% Northwest and Northeast residencies.

Well Northwest is kinda tough for everyone. Aren't there still only two ACGME programs in the entire region? (your stats shouldn't be a problem though)

 

[WingedOx]

Only based on second hand info, which I'm loathe to give since we have so many Chicagoland-knowledgeable posters.

Honestly even for us who know the place half the stuff I can tell you is second hand. Most of us probably know 2 or 3 places really well and the rest is what we're heard. (but please do ask away...)

I'm still waiting to see a long post from @splik about the windy city.

 

[psychgrad17]

Well Northwest is kinda tough for everyone. Aren't there still only two ACGME programs in the entire region? (your stats shouldn't be a problem though)

There are 4 in Oregon and Washington. I'm also being liberal in my definition of Northwest and including northern California, which adds 3 more programs.

 

[scruffy821]

Honestly even for us who know the place half the stuff I can tell you is second hand. Most of us probably know 2 or 3 places really well and the rest is what we're heard. (but please do ask away...)

I'm still waiting to see a long post from @splik about the windy city.

My impression from resident friends in Chicago is that the two strongest programs are Northwestern and UIC -- UIC is a bit more research-based and Northwestern has the strong brand name that offers more resources, but both are supposed to provide excellent clinical training. I've been told that UChicago lost its inpatient unit and thus doesn't offer *as* strong of training as the other two (a lot of their strong faculty apparently migrated to UIC and Northwestern), but is probably right underneath them and making improvements. Rush and Loyola sound decent as well.

 

[splik]

Step 1: 25o's
Step 2 CK/ CS: taking both in June
School: Midwest allopathic, not a top tier school
Class Rank: don't know, but I honored every course in the first two years
Grades in Clerkship: Honors in Psych and one other course. Everything else so far is a Pass
AOA: no
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: I worked on a psychology research project for my thesis in undergrad, and was a research assistant in a clinical psychology lab full time just before med school. No publications resulted, and I haven't done any research or poster presentations since I entered med school. I am currently giving Step 1 prep lectures and tutoring for our med students.
Red Flags: (step failures, etc): none
Overview of where you want to end up: The Northwest and the Northeast (including non-coastal rural areas). Since these are are highly sought after areas, do you think I'm competitive enough to apply almost exclusively to residencies here? My current application list, for example, is 90% Northwest and Northeast residencies.

these programs aren't hugely competitive. The main one would be UW which is quite a bit more competitive than the others but a step down in competitiveness compared to say UCSF. Recently UW has been excessively interested in whether applicants are interested in living in the area, and obviously they do have a mission to serve the WWAMI region so if you are able to demonstrate that then great, especially if you have ties to the region. UW-Boise is not competitive at all as no one wants to live in Idaho except people who are from there but it is an interesting program and you would have a very good chance of matching there. OHSU seems to be a crapshoot in terms of who they take and are interested in. I don't think it's particularly competitive, but they do seem mysterious in how they select people. Portland is obviously quite desirable. The Spokane residency is very new (although there was a spokane track program as part of UW for several years, they are now independent) and not many people want to live in Spokane. It's a smaller program in an area of great need. The program director is british which makes the program that much better, she is particularly interested in psychodynamic treatment (particularly ISTDP) which is a pretty cool (if somewhat crazy) therapy that very few programs will train you in.

In short, if you apply to all the program in the NW that would be enough to match as there is a good range of programs. Similarly if you were broad in applying to programs in the NE (i.e. not just MGH and Columbia) then it would be perfectly reasonable (and sensible) to just apply to programs in these 2 regions

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

Step 1: 223
Step 2 CK/ CS: haven't taken yet
School: top 15
Class Rank: likely bottom third
Grades in Clerkship: High pass pysch, surgery, neuro, and OB; pass IM and Peds; honor EM and FM
AOA: no
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 1 publication, 1 poster, neither in psych
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) not that I know of
Overview of where you want to end up: The best program that I can get into. I'd like to be in NYC, Chicago, LA, or SF Bay Area.

I realized late that I wanted to do psych so I'm worried that my low step 1 score, poor grades in IM/Peds, and lack of psych research would be a huge factor against me. Location is pretty important to me as I don't see myself living in outside of an urban environment. I'm also wondering if I should be taking my Step 2CK sooner than later.

these programs aren't hugely competitive. The main one would be UW which is quite a bit more competitive than the others but a step down in competitiveness compared to say UCSF. Recently UW has been excessively interested in whether applicants are interested in living in the area, and obviously they do have a mission to serve the WWAMI region so if you are able to demonstrate that then great, especially if you have ties to the region. UW-Boise is not competitive at all as no one wants to live in Idaho except people who are from there but it is an interesting program and you would have a very good chance of matching there. OHSU seems to be a crapshoot in terms of who they take and are interested in. I don't think it's particularly competitive, but they do seem mysterious in how they select people. Portland is obviously quite desirable. The Spokane residency is very new (although there was a spokane track program as part of UW for several years, they are now independent) and not many people want to live in Spokane. It's a smaller program in an area of great need. The program director is british which makes the program that much better, she is particularly interested in psychodynamic treatment (particularly ISTDP) which is a pretty cool (if somewhat crazy) therapy that very few programs will train you in.

In short, if you apply to all the program in the NW that would be enough to match as there is a good range of programs. Similarly if you were broad in applying to programs in the NE (i.e. not just MGH and Columbia) then it would be perfectly reasonable (and sensible) to just apply to programs in these 2 regions

To add in some of us from Idaho don't find a 2 and 2 split during residency to be desirable, especially if we have Significant others. Also while I found the faculty in Boise to be great it is obvious that doing your 3rd and 4th years at only a VA/student health center leaves holes in your education. My interview day there was another Idahoan with me. We both ended up ranking multiple programs above the idaho track despite the fact we both feel we'll end up back in the area after residency.

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[splik]

To add in some of us from Idaho don't find a 2 and 2 split during residency to be desirable, especially if we have Significant others. Also while I found the faculty in Boise to be great it is obvious that doing your 3rd and 4th years at only a VA/student health center leaves holes in your education. My interview day there was another Idahoan with me. We both ended up ranking multiple programs above the idaho track despite the fact we both feel we'll end up back in the area after residency.

I may be out of date as I know there have been some changes but it is simply not true that they only rotate at the VA and boise state. if anything they have too many different systems they can rotate at. in the past they have been part of the family medicine residency (which used to fund it), several non-VA hospitals, the state hospital, the jail, the prison, and telepsychiatry. there are probably many drawbacks to it (i mean boise is kinda grim and it is problematic to uproot halfway through your residency), but i don't think a limited number of sites (remember most people only work at one or two places for their residency anyway) or "holes" in training is one of them especially when you get exposure to both urban metro psychiatry and more rustic practice.

 

[FlowRate]

Grades in Clerkship: Honors in Psych and one other course. Everything else so far is a Pass

I think overall you'll do quite well. Just wanted to note that this is a curious outcome for someone with an otherwise outstanding record. I don't think it's particularly likely that anyone will ask you about it, but it certainly made me do a double take. You don't need to explain here, what I'm saying is that I'd recommend having something prepared just in case you do get asked about it. Exception being if you're at a school that grades like stanford (fail/pass/honors). I would recommend applying to residencies outside of just the NW and NE mainly because "less competitive" residencies in those regions might not think you're serious and therefore may not interview you. (And because of part of the differential for the thing in bold--you might not be great at seeming interested in things you don't like.)

 

[Seroquel]

Hello everyone! Longtime lurker looking for advice... US MD at an average school
Step 1: 220s
Step 2: Taking end of July
Grades: mostly HP in preclinical courses. Third year: honors in psych, pass in FM and neuro, HP everything else
Red Flags: none so far lol
Class rank: no idea
AOA: nope
Research: author on several papers, basic science research in immunology, NIH fellowship for 2 years after college
Areas of interest: I'm interested in Ohio State, Pitt, other midwestern schools. Also really like Texas and will apply to UTSW even though I know it's very competitive. I would say those three are my favorites but I will apply broadly. Any particular advice on UTSW? Thanks

 

[clausewitz2]

Hello everyone! Longtime lurker looking for advice... US MD at an average school
Step 1: 220s
Step 2: Taking end of July
Grades: mostly HP in preclinical courses. Third year: honors in psych, pass in FM and neuro, HP everything else
Red Flags: none so far lol
Class rank: no idea
AOA: nope
Research: author on several papers, basic science research in immunology, NIH fellowship for 2 years after college
Areas of interest: I'm interested in Ohio State, Pitt, other midwestern schools. Also really like Texas and will apply to UTSW even though I know it's very competitive. I would say those three are my favorites but I will apply broadly. Any particular advice on UTSW? Thanks

Dunno about UTSW, but the basic science background will stand you in very good stead at Pitt. Are you intending to have an academic career?

 

[FlowRate]

Hello everyone! Longtime lurker looking for advice... US MD at an average school
Step 1: 220s
Step 2: Taking end of July
Grades: mostly HP in preclinical courses. Third year: honors in psych, pass in FM and neuro, HP everything else
Red Flags: none so far lol
Class rank: no idea
AOA: nope
Research: author on several papers, basic science research in immunology, NIH fellowship for 2 years after college
Areas of interest: I'm interested in Ohio State, Pitt, other midwestern schools. Also really like Texas and will apply to UTSW even though I know it's very competitive. I would say those three are my favorites but I will apply broadly. Any particular advice on UTSW? Thanks

Do well on Step 2 and come across as having passion for something and I think you'll be in a very good place for all of those residencies. I got the sense at UTSW that they are super supportive and are looking for residents who capitalize on the opportunities they provide.

 

[Seroquel]

@Clausewitz I'm not positive but yes I would like to do more research and possibly look into academic positions. Thanks for the info!
@FlowRate thanks for the advice ☺️

 

[Ben Jaeger]

Cool to hear

 

[RuralPsychGuy]

[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]Looking for any opinions

Step 1: 224
Step 2 CK/ CS: taking June 30th
School: Top 50 National, in Midwest
Class Rank: top half
Grades in Clerkship: Pass FM, A in Peds and Psych and O in IM and OB (who knows how Surgery will end up)
AOA: no
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: lots of volunteer with youth. Started a high school education/intervention program in med school that got a national public health award. A few poster presentations, currently working on research about rural teen misperceptions of common mental illnesses. Have 9 months of extra volunteer time at an adolescent substance abuse clinic helping run groups, make treatment plans, and do one-on-one counseling to help corroborate my interest in Child Psych.

Red Flags: (step failures, etc) none

Overview of where you want to end up: I'm applying mostly to Midwest programs and majority fall in top 50 nationally (don't really think i could match at the top schools on the east coast). Big ones for me are Mayo, all the programs in Chicago, Cincinnati, Vanderbilt, Iowa, and Indiana. Also programs outside the Midwest like Dartmouth and UNM that offer exposure to rural psychiatry. Really only major qualification is that the institution has a child and adolescent fellowship there.

Thanks![/COLOR]

 

[OldPsychDoc]

[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]Looking for any opinions

Step 1: 224
Step 2 CK/ CS: taking June 30th
School: Top 50 National, in Midwest
Class Rank: top half
Grades in Clerkship: Pass FM, A in Peds and Psych and O in IM and OB (who knows how Surgery will end up)
AOA: no
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: lots of volunteer with youth. Started a high school education/intervention program in med school that got a national public health award. A few poster presentations, currently working on research about rural teen misperceptions of common mental illnesses. Have 9 months of extra volunteer time at an adolescent substance abuse clinic helping run groups, make treatment plans, and do one-on-one counseling to help corroborate my interest in Child Psych.

Red Flags: (step failures, etc) none

Overview of where you want to end up: I'm applying mostly to Midwest programs and majority fall in top 50 nationally (don't really think i could match at the top schools on the east coast). Big ones for me are Mayo, all the programs in Chicago, Cincinnati, Vanderbilt, Iowa, and Indiana. Also programs outside the Midwest like Dartmouth and UNM that offer exposure to rural psychiatry. Really only major qualification is that the institution has a child and adolescent fellowship there.

Thanks![/COLOR].

You have nothing to worry about except how far afield you want to look.
Don't forget U Wisconsin, MCW (which is expanding to add a rural residency soon), Michigan State, and U MN. You may even want to look at Colorado and Utah.

 

[RuralPsychGuy]

You have nothing to worry about except how far afield you want to look.
Don't forget U Wisconsin, MCW (which is expanding to add a rural residency soon), Michigan State, and U MN. You may even want to look at Colorado and Utah. .

Thanks so much. All of those are currently on my list (~30) programs but Utah is a new one. I'll have to look more into it.

 

[Pseudobulbar]

Step 1: low 200's
Step 2 CK/ CS: taking in august
School: texas medical school
Class Rank: bottom quartile
Grades in Clerkship: all pass, but excellent feedback.
AOA: no
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Technology chair first two years.
Red Flags: (step failures, etc): none
Overview of where you want to end up: Would like to end up in California to take care of my father. Community program is ok. Arizona, New Mexico, Oregon, Washington, Texas the area's that are lower on the list but still happy with. Not really sure how viable this is, but it is my goal.

 

[Freddie Mercury]

Step 1: low 200's
Step 2 CK/ CS: taking in august
School: texas medical school
Class Rank: bottom quartile
Grades in Clerkship: all pass, but excellent feedback.
AOA: no
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Technology chair first two years.
Red Flags: (step failures, etc): none
Overview of where you want to end up: Would like to end up in California to take care of my father. Community program is ok. Arizona, New Mexico, Oregon, Washington, Texas the area's that are lower on the list but still happy with. Not really sure how viable this is, but it is my goal.

You've got an uphill battle in regards to California. Assuming you mean SoCal, some good options would be:
Loma Linda
Kaiser-Fontana
Kern
Kaweah Delta

Also consider UCLA-SFV, UCI and UCR.

In your case, an audition rotation at a place or two can certainly help. Wish you the best.

 

[lymphocyte]

@notdeadyet Thank you so much for your help! Might I have a shot at some of the more prominent (and IMG accepting) public psychiatry programs like Yale, Dartmouth, UW or OHSU? Are there any others that should be on my radar? My PS and application are heavily slanted in that direction but I might back off to make myself more palatable to other programs...

 

[prok]

...

 

[scudiera]

@prok and @Seroquel - You will get interviews at UTSW and Emory, most likely. They're great programs but have to compete with NE schools for candidates so they interview a lot. Don't discount BCM, I was pretty sure I wouldn't be ranking them higher than 4th but ended up moving them to #1 over UCSF and Longwood after the interview/2nd look - if you're interested in the south it's another great option (especially if you are interested in child, less so for Forensics vs Emory but the PD is Forensics trained).

Re: letters - I would get a third psych letter if possible but if you have two strong psych letters that should be fine. IIRC some programs wanted 4 letters in total, so I ended up with 3 Psych and 3 IM and chose from them (was considering IM-Psych), glad I had the options.

 

[notdeadyet]

Sorry for bumping this, but I've had some changes and the thread seems more active now. I ended up taking Step 2 early and did worse than expected (~230). I've heard doing worse on step 2 can look really bad, but I'm not sure how much this changes things.

It doesn't.

Step 2 performance is very important for folks with marginal Step 1 scores, as it reassures programs that you will not be at risk for not passing Step 3 and potentially not getting your license. If you have a strong Step 1 (as you do), no one cares much about Step 2. On AdComs, I've never heard folks give Step 2 any discussion time other than for reassurance-sake.

Also, due to some scheduling issues at my school, I won't have another psych elective for a while. I have two strong psych letters and one from medicine. Should I go look for another letter or are those 3 enough?

You should be good, but you should look into individual programs to see their requirements. I know a few that have weird ones when it comes to letters.

 

[sloop]

Step 1: 250+
Step 2 CK/ CS: Took CS, no report yet, taking CK soon, before end of August
School: Northeast MD School. Nothing special name-wise.
Class Rank: Unsure. My school doesn't give a lot of info on this. I did honor almost all first year and second year courses. Probably high, but again, who knows.
Grades in Clerkship: 2 honors (including psych), 3HP, one pending.
AOA: who knows, probably have a shot.
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Research assistant on a psych project between first and second year but did not get pubs from it. One probable poster/possible case report in the works on a psych related topic from a patient on my psych rotation. Tutor for first and second year courses, step 1.
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) none
Overview of where you want to end up: Strong urban academic hospitals on the east coast from New England down to Baltimore. I've been considering places like Brigham, BI, Penn, Yale, Columbia, Cornell, Hopkins, as well as some places like Temple, Tufts, Jefferson, etc. I'll probably apply to MGH but expect a rejection based on my little research credentials.

So I have edited the above information with some developments since I last posted.

My main question now is regarding CK. Of course I plan to do my best and am not planning on doing the silly "delay so score reports come out after applications go out" thing, but I'm wondering how important CK will be for an applicant like me. Are CK scores likely to factor majorly into my application, or will most places just want to see I took and passed it?

Just starting to get worried because I'm on a pretty intense rotation right now and as of now my plan is to take CK like 2 weeks and a couple days after the end of the rotation (dedicated study, no rotations during that time). It just seems like so little time and I don't want to mess up my chances on CK, but the alternative entails delaying early 4th year rotations (which I have been told by advisors is best avoided).

 

[scudiera]

@sloop I had my CK on file when I submitted so I can't say what effect the score has on getting interviews for somebody with a 250+ (I was ~260/260) but I would trust your advisors re: not delaying the early 4th year rotations. If you struggle, you're still not likely to drop below 240 and that won't be a red flag to programs unless by 250+ you mean 275 . Really I think that they just don't want to see you coasted on the CK because you did so well on Step 1 (and you did, congrats!).

Re: your programs - you'll get interviews at most places, we had pretty similar profiles (you can look mine up). If you're open to NYC I'd add NYU and Mt Sinai to your list, along with Pitt. I wasn't big on NYC or the northeast in general so I cancelled my Cornell and Penn ints but I've heard great things about those programs and I know from classmates that NYU and Mt Sinai are very strong. I LOVED Pitt. It's not urban like the other places you've listed but it's a large city and it's a truly phenomenal program. Any thoughts to Maryland or UNC? Neither are what I'd call urban from the little I know about them (Though UMD is located in Baltimore).

 

[thor343]

Deleted

 

[sloop]

@sloop I had my CK on file when I submitted so I can't say what effect the score has on getting interviews for somebody with a 250+ (I was ~260/260) but I would trust your advisors re: not delaying the early 4th year rotations. If you struggle, you're still not likely to drop below 240 and that won't be a red flag to programs unless by 250+ you mean 275 . Really I think that they just don't want to see you coasted on the CK because you did so well on Step 1 (and you did, congrats!).

Re: your programs - you'll get interviews at most places, we had pretty similar profiles (you can look mine up). If you're open to NYC I'd add NYU and Mt Sinai to your list, along with Pitt. I wasn't big on NYC or the northeast in general so I cancelled my Cornell and Penn ints but I've heard great things about those programs and I know from classmates that NYU and Mt Sinai are very strong. I LOVED Pitt. It's not urban like the other places you've listed but it's a large city and it's a truly phenomenal program. Any thoughts to Maryland or UNC? Neither are what I'd call urban from the little I know about them (Though UMD is located in Baltimore).

Good to hear. So I guess I'll just finish this rotation out doing assorted UWorld questions where I can, then study full days for a couple of weeks and just knock CK out? I guess it will be what it will be. I have no desire to take that damned test during my early psych rotations (or during 4th year at all, tbh) so I guess it's then or never.

Definitely planning to apply to NYC. I'm not an "I have to live in NYC" kind of guy but it would work well for a lot of life reasons. Was actually recommended to look into NYU and Mt Sinai by one of my advisors.

Anything south of Maryland is getting a little far south for me, but I would consider/apply to particularly strong programs. I will look into Maryland and UNC, for sure.

I'll almost certainly apply to Pitt. It's a little far west for me and I don't know how much my significant other would like it, but I think I'd like the program better than a lot of others on my list that I might prefer geographically. It is definitely worth checking out. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[yogalunafly]

Step 1: 234
Step 2 CK/ CS: July
School: MD School (low-mid tier, in NE region)
Class Rank: Bottom Half
Grades in Clerkship: All PASS including psych rotation; good evaluations.
AOA: No
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars:Normal extracurriculars, some clinical research with 2 poster presentations. No pubs. Non-psych related research.
Red Flags: No major red flags
Overview of where you want to end up: Would like to end up in NE program (preferably NY/Boston) or programs along West Coast.

Would really appreciate some advice regarding what programs are possible for me in those regions based on mediocre grades and average application otherwise. I'm not sure what programs are too high of a reach for me. Do some programs filter out applicants based on clerkship grades?

Thank you so much.

 

[WhichPsychPrograms]

Step 1:443 COMLEX
Step 2 CK/ CS: Will take over summer
School: DO school, one of the better ones.
Class Rank: bottom 10%
Grades in Clerkship: All PASS including psych rotation; Above average (compared to the rest of my class) marks on my evals from my rotations. Good-great comments, no bad evals.
AOA: No
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: no research, some mission trips and such.
Red Flags: Failed 3 classes M1/M2 year which I passed on remediation exam, failed Comlex level 1 one time. Failed Comlex PE (due to not doing OMM). Actual patients and preceptors seem to really like me FWIW.

Overview of where you want to end up:
In no particular order: UMass, Maine Medical Center, Loyola, UF, USF, Largo (DO), Palm Beach (DO), Tulane, LSU, UHawaii. Generally looking in Florida/Southeast as well as more rural Northeast+Chicagoland.

On paper my app looks pretty bad. In the 2nd half of M3 year I was diagnosed with a thyroid problem which I think largely contributed to my academic struggles. I think being treated for that these past few months has helped a lot. All my preceptors seem to generally like me and that is reflected in my evals.

I'm setting up auditions right now at the above mentioned schools in hopes they can offset my marks and step scores. Any advice where I will be competitive? Should I do the ACGME match or focus my efforts on Osteopathic? Will a better level 2 help?

 

[24blue8]

Step 1:443 COMLEX
Step 2 CK/ CS: Will take over summer
School: DO school, one of the better ones.
Class Rank: bottom 10%
Grades in Clerkship: All PASS including psych rotation; Above average (compared to the rest of my class) marks on my evals from my rotations. Good-great comments, no bad evals.
AOA: No
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: no research, some mission trips and such.
Red Flags: Failed 3 classes M1/M2 year which I passed on remediation exam, failed Comlex level 1 one time. Failed Comlex PE (due to not doing OMM). Actual patients and preceptors seem to really like me FWIW.

Overview of where you want to end up:
In no particular order: UMass, Maine Medical Center, Loyola, UF, USF, Largo (DO), Palm Beach (DO), Tulane, LSU, UHawaii. Generally looking in Florida/Southeast as well as more rural Northeast+Chicagoland.

On paper my app looks pretty bad. In the 2nd half of M3 year I was diagnosed with a thyroid problem which I think largely contributed to my academic struggles. I think being treated for that these past few months has helped a lot. All my preceptors seem to generally like me and that is reflected in my evals.

I'm setting up auditions right now at the above mentioned schools in hopes they can offset my marks and step scores. Any advice where I will be competitive? Should I do the ACGME match or focus my efforts on Osteopathic? Will a better level 2 help?

I am not a DO but your post stood out to me so I wanted to comment.

There are DOs on this board (and I am sure in real life ha!) that had much stronger applications than yours this past cycle and did not match. Your application (with the Level 1 and PE failure, below average retake, low class rank, no other notables on your CV or demonstrated interest in psych that you mentioned above) would probably be much better received at a DO program. Even if you get an ACGME interview, know that you will be ranked way down the list. If you want to apply to 50-100+ ACGME programs that is an idea but I think your best bet would be to apply DO.

And unfortunately even if you are well liked by your preceptors, your clinical grades are still (only) a Pass. Not a high pass or honors. I think you need to be a bit more realistic about the interview process and know that most people are generally likeable but they might also pack a punch in terms of their scores, grades, research and palpable interest in psychiatry.

I don't want to rain on your parade but just open up the shades and let some light in. Don't go into this thinking psych is an easy match and because you know you're a good person that works hard and had a few kinks that you worked out things will be fine. Do what is needed out of self preservation and to get yourself into a program anywhere.

 

[Auvelity]

Well gonna add myself here. Since I am doing everything I can to match this year in psych as my first option and emergency second one(just because I love it too and I know as an non US-IMG with no Emergency LORS my chances are minimal)
Step 1: about to take it. NBME 220's. want to get to 240 to be sure (gonna edit update on that)
Step 2 CK/ CS: CK not yet, I assume for september / CS passed first attempt
School: The caribbean (Not ROSS or any other recognized one)
Class Rank: Middleish if it matters
Grades in Clerkship: High pass but not done in the US
AOA: N/A
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: No research or Publication. none none. But US clinical experience(in surgery though)
Red Flags: (step failures, etc): None
Overview of where you want to end up: Northeast
Love PSYCH! As I suffered dysthymia started to understand how important and overlooked(even by other specialties) it is. like people would tell me that if I try harder or if I tried to see life more positively I could get things done... ha tell my bupropion about it. lmao
Idk if I have a real chance here. Thats why I am working so hard into getting those grades high

 

[FlowRate]

Step 1: 234
Step 2 CK/ CS: July
School: MD School (low-mid tier, in NE region)
Class Rank: Bottom Half
Grades in Clerkship: All PASS including psych rotation; good evaluations.
AOA: No
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars:Normal extracurriculars, some clinical research with 2 poster presentations. No pubs. Non-psych related research.
Red Flags: No major red flags
Overview of where you want to end up: Would like to end up in NE program (preferably NY/Boston) or programs along West Coast.

Would really appreciate some advice regarding what programs are possible for me in those regions based on mediocre grades and average application otherwise. I'm not sure what programs are too high of a reach for me. Do some programs filter out applicants based on clerkship grades?

Thank you so much.

Hmm, good evaluations and "all pass" don't seem to be compatible. Do you have a good story for the lower grades? Do a significant % of students at your school get passes?

Most programs don't have a hard filter for US MD's except maybe step 1, which you are above.

 

[prok]

...

 

[lymphocyte]

Well gonna add myself here. Since I am doing everything I can to match this year in psych as my first option and emergency second one(just because I love it too and I know as an non US-IMG with no Emergency LORS my chances are minimal)
Step 1: about to take it. NBME 220's. want to get to 240 to be sure (gonna edit update on that)
Step 2 CK/ CS: CK not yet, I assume for september / CS passed first attempt
School: The caribbean (Not ROSS or any other recognized one)
Class Rank: Middleish if it matters
Grades in Clerkship: High pass but not done in the US
AOA: N/A
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: No research or Publication. none none. But US clinical experience(in surgery though)
Red Flags: (step failures, etc): None
Overview of where you want to end up: Northeast
Love PSYCH! As I suffered dysthymia started to understand how important and overlooked(even by other specialties) it is. like people would tell me that if I try harder or if I tried to see life more positively I could get things done... ha tell my bupropion about it. lmao
Idk if I have a real chance here. Thats why I am working so hard into getting those grades high

I'm just a MS4 and fellow IMG, so take this advice for what's it worth, but no Step 1, no Visa, no-name Caribbean, no USCE in psychiatry, no demonstrated interested in psychiatry--it's impossible to properly evaluate your chances, but they don't seem good at all. Forget about getting your grades higher. Frankly, that's one of your least pressing concerns. You need to have Step 1 and Step 2 CK done and dusted before September. And it's a big, big jump from a NBME 220 to 240+ on the real deal. Hit UFAP hard. (Emphasis on the U.) Any chance you can snag some UCSE in psychiatry before September? I see a path forward if you do this, do extremely well on the rotation, and dominate Step 1.

I would not mention your dysthymia anywhere on your application, unless you took a LOA and need to explain why. Mental illness is still stigmatised among doctors, and, anecdotally, nowhere worse than in psychiatry.

If you love emergency and have LORs in surgery, why not FM? Many rural EDs are staffed by FM doctors. And psychiatric complaints make up a substantial proportion of primary care visits. FM seems much less competitive now than psychiatry for IMGs.

Without an EM LoR, your chances for emergency are zero. http://www.cordem.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3743.

Sorry if this is discouraging. But there are still things you can do between now and September to improve your chances. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[FlowRate]

Not the OP, but my school is like that. On most clerkships, 50+% get pass and only a small percentage get honors. I've had some clerkships where perfect evals + low 90s on a shelf only got a high pass. It doesn't seem to hurt us in matching, but it's a little frustrating that there's so much variability across schools. Our home program director said that she does give a lot of leeway in grades because of this reason.

Yeah, hence the second question. I'm aware that there are a few schools that give majority passes. Stanford does Fail / Pass (~66%) / Honors (33%). Might be 80/20, can't remember exactly.

 

[notdeadyet]

Programs are provided with what percentage of people get what grade for a medical school's clerkships. It's transparent. For allopathic medical schools.

 

[Roxas]

Step 1:443 COMLEX
Step 2 CK/ CS: Will take over summer
School: DO school, one of the better ones.
Class Rank: bottom 10%
Grades in Clerkship: All PASS including psych rotation; Above average (compared to the rest of my class) marks on my evals from my rotations. Good-great comments, no bad evals.
AOA: No
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: no research, some mission trips and such.
Red Flags: Failed 3 classes M1/M2 year which I passed on remediation exam, failed Comlex level 1 one time. Failed Comlex PE (due to not doing OMM). Actual patients and preceptors seem to really like me FWIW.

Overview of where you want to end up:
In no particular order: UMass, Maine Medical Center, Loyola, UF, USF, Largo (DO), Palm Beach (DO), Tulane, LSU, UHawaii. Generally looking in Florida/Southeast as well as more rural Northeast+Chicagoland.

On paper my app looks pretty bad. In the 2nd half of M3 year I was diagnosed with a thyroid problem which I think largely contributed to my academic struggles. I think being treated for that these past few months has helped a lot. All my preceptors seem to generally like me and that is reflected in my evals.

I'm setting up auditions right now at the above mentioned schools in hopes they can offset my marks and step scores. Any advice where I will be competitive? Should I do the ACGME match or focus my efforts on Osteopathic? Will a better level 2 help?

Please keep us posted on how your cycle goes, as I'm likely to end up in a similar spot in a couple years (low class rank, failed a class in 1st year and 2nd year, got moved to a 5 year plan during 2nd year) and am hoping I can still get into a psych program somewhere.

Best of luck man

 

[Trousseau]

So, end of 3rd year, applying to Psych. Don't really care about location or program caliber.

Step 1: 213
Step 2 CK/ CS: Taking soon.
School: US Allopathic MD
Class Rank: 4th Quartile
Grades in Clerkship:
Our school doesn't do H/P/F. With regards to my MSPE comments, Psych was positive, OB/Peds/IM/FM were neutral-positive, Surgery was negative. I passed everything.
AOA: no
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Submitting case report for IM (intended to do IM before Psych). Other than that, standard ECs like club leadership, mentoring, volunteering, etc.
Red Flags: (step failures, etc): I failed 2 shelves, but successfully retook them. This does NOT appear on the transcript. Not sure if it appears on MSPE.

----------------------------------------------

Talked to Dean and other mentors in Psych. They say I should be fine to match, but I should apply to several community programs to be safe.

 

[Dharma]

Step 1:443 COMLEX
Step 2 CK/ CS: Will take over summer
School: DO school, one of the better ones.
Class Rank: bottom 10%
Grades in Clerkship: All PASS including psych rotation; Above average (compared to the rest of my class) marks on my evals from my rotations. Good-great comments, no bad evals.
AOA: No
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: no research, some mission trips and such.
Red Flags: Failed 3 classes M1/M2 year which I passed on remediation exam, failed Comlex level 1 one time. Failed Comlex PE (due to not doing OMM). Actual patients and preceptors seem to really like me FWIW.

Overview of where you want to end up:
In no particular order: UMass, Maine Medical Center, Loyola, UF, USF, Largo (DO), Palm Beach (DO), Tulane, LSU, UHawaii. Generally looking in Florida/Southeast as well as more rural Northeast+Chicagoland.

On paper my app looks pretty bad. In the 2nd half of M3 year I was diagnosed with a thyroid problem which I think largely contributed to my academic struggles. I think being treated for that these past few months has helped a lot. All my preceptors seem to generally like me and that is reflected in my evals.

I'm setting up auditions right now at the above mentioned schools in hopes they can offset my marks and step scores. Any advice where I will be competitive? Should I do the ACGME match or focus my efforts on Osteopathic? Will a better level 2 help?

I have to agree with @24blue8 in that you are going to be fighting an uphill battle when it comes to ACGME programs. Psychiatry was not an easy match for DO's in 2016 and I doubt it will be in 2017 either. That said, you should still do what you need to in order to increase the competitiveness of you overall application. It should go without saying to apply far and wide... and early. Have the LORs lined up. Crack a 500 on Level 2. BTW have you retaken and passed the PE yet? Get that done ASAP.

Most definitely include DO programs if you're really (REALLY) set on psychiatry. I know next to nothing about the quality of such programs besides what I have read on these forums. From I remember there are a couple that are decent but many that remain questionable. If I were you, I'd ask myself if I am 100% set on psychiatry. There are plenty of solid ACGME FM programs out there that you would have a decent shot at. You would still see a fair amount of psychiatry. Keep your mind open in that regard.

Plan on going a decent amount of interviews to increase your chances. Apply the (relative) rule of 1/3s. One man's ceiling is another man's floor. No offense there, but be realistic. Best of luck. PM w questions if need be.

 

[Dharma]

Step 1: Comlex- 430s (Avg was 510 this past cycle)
Step 2 CK/ CS: June
School: DO School
Class Rank: Bottom Half
Grades in Clerkship: All High Pass w/ excellent evals
AOA:
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars:Normal extracurriculars but no research
Red Flags: (step failures, etc)- Successfully remediated course 1st year
Overview of where you want to end up: Would like to end up in the south or east but am open to anything considering my low stats.
Also anybody have advice on AOA programs or recommendations on low/mid tier acgme programs to apply too? Thanks!

I'd say the same to you as I did to @WhichPsychPrograms. You're in a bit of a better place because you haven't failed any Steps/Levels but the score is still on the low side. Doesn't mean you are out of the game though. I would open yourself geographically speaking; think Midwest as well. Best of luck.

 

[W19]

It's not a WAMC post... but I think I should ask for some help here...


I just finished MS2 and planning to apply to psych next cycle, but diagnostic exam for step1 was 188 (NBME 13) before dedicated study time. So it's safe to say I might get <220 on step 1 if I take it July end, which is the latest date I can take it.

On the other hand, I can ask my school for a 6 weeks extension if I feel like I need more time, but that will put me behind in my rotation. What should I do? Should I risk getting <220 in step 1, which will severely compromise my chance to match into psych or should I postpone step1 exam?

 

[Psychotic]

It's not a WAMC post... but I think I should ask for some help here...


I just finished MS2 and planning to apply to psych next cycle, but diagnostic score for step1 was 188 (NBME 13) before dedicated study time. So it's safe to say I might get <220 on step 1 if I take it July end, which is the latest date I can take it.

On the other hand, I can ask my school for a 6 weeks extension if I feel like I need more time, but that will put me behind in my rotation. What should I do? Should I risk getting <220 in step 1, which will severely compromise my chance to match into psych or should I postpone step1 exam?

You need to buckle down and take Step 1 NOW without creating a red flag delay. You need to get Step 2 in your sights very soon, too. Your med school isn't doing you any favors by letting these tests slide.

If you are a US MD applicant with no red flags, you can match psych with a sub 220 - I should know...

 

[W19]

You need to buckle down and take Step 1 NOW without creating a red flag delay. You need to get Step 2 in your sights very soon, too. Your med school isn't doing you any favors by letting these tests slide.

If you are a US MD applicant with no red flags, you can match psych with a sub 220 - I should know...

I am a US MD student... I have no red flags so far except for ranking low (3rd quartile) in my class...

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

W19, 220 is about average for psych. Half the people matching are below this. PDs don't mind delays in training if there are good reasons, but "I needed more time to study" is about the last thing they want to hear. Most programs would rather have a 210 on track than a 230 with time off to study. Others may disagree, but I know I'm not alone in this opinion. Most applicants don't have any red flags, it is better to be low middle with no red flags. Happy hunting next year.

 

[Trousseau]

W19, 220 is about average for psych. Half the people matching are below this. PDs don't mind delays in training if there are good reasons, but "I needed more time to study" is about the last thing they want to hear. Most programs would rather have a 210 on track than a 230 with time off to study. Others may disagree, but I know I'm not alone in this opinion. Most applicants don't have any red flags, it is better to be low middle with no red flags. Happy hunting next year.

Interesting. My class had a few dozen people delay STEP-1, and many of them are going into more competitive specialties than Psych. I also delayed, but I didn't think PDs would care too much (unless they're the peeps at Harvard or whatever).

My application looks a lot worse than I originally thought.

 

[FlowRate]

It's not a WAMC post... but I think I should ask for some help here...


I just finished MS2 and planning to apply to psych next cycle, but diagnostic exam for step1 was 188 (NBME 13) before dedicated study time. So it's safe to say I might get <220 on step 1 if I take it July end, which is the latest date I can take it.

On the other hand, I can ask my school for a 6 weeks extension if I feel like I need more time, but that will put me behind in my rotation. What should I do? Should I risk getting <220 in step 1, which will severely compromise my chance to match into psych or should I postpone step1 exam?

Unless your med school makes it really obvious, I don't think anyone will notice. I had a postponement and it never came up at interviews. Granted, it was for illness, not just extra time. You can do a lot in a month, though. Hit that content review.

 

[Seroquel]

It's not a WAMC post... but I think I should ask for some help here...


I just finished MS2 and planning to apply to psych next cycle, but diagnostic exam for step1 was 188 (NBME 13) before dedicated study time. So it's safe to say I might get <220 on step 1 if I take it July end, which is the latest date I can take it.

On the other hand, I can ask my school for a 6 weeks extension if I feel like I need more time, but that will put me behind in my rotation. What should I do? Should I risk getting <220 in step 1, which will severely compromise my chance to match into psych or should I postpone step1 exam?

A 188 on an nbme prior to dedicated study time is actually pretty good. At my school and others, the average person went up about 40 points from beginning to end. Just to give you a more concrete example, I did terribly on my diagnostic nbme 6 weeks before step 1. I got like a 160-something. Scared sh*tl*ss, I studied for almost 6 weeks and got a score in the 220s. Not that that is an amazing score at ALL but my point is that you shouldn't limit yourself before you've started to study. I think you will do very well; keep your head in the game, study hard, and take breaks

 

[LordLlama]

took a long leave of absence to address my learning disability, so I'm essentially in my sixth year of med school. will be couple-matching with my SO who's doing FM.
Just desperate to match, not very selective for locations, but will be looking at places with many programs so that my SO and I can also match into different programs that are geographically close.

Step 1: 225
Step 2 CK/ CS: Failed both--both times related to my learning disabilities. Ran out of time for CK on every section (201). Failed CS because couldnt complete patient note in time (forgot to request earplugs ahead of time so I wasn't able to focus). Sent out my accommodation request (first time requesting this on a standardized exam other than a few shelves) but I'm not sure I will be able to hear back from NBME on the decision before end of July. So I'm also wondering if I should just withdraw that request and try to retake it before August, that way theres a chance a passing score can make it into my ERAS. It's unlikely I will be able to retake the CS before ERAS goes out though.
School: US Allopathic MD
Class Rank: Not sure. I was top half during foundation years. Then fell to lower quartile during clinical years.
Grades in Clerkship: Passed everything; good evals for psych clerkship, but has some concerning comments for OB, surgery, medicine AI, and psych AI. School gave me a chance to redo all my AIs so I will be redoing my psych AI in August.
AOA: no
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Working on a research project right now, may or may not be able to do a poster presentation before ERAS. Did some community service. Received a merit-based scholarship before.
Red Flags: failed step 2 CK & CS have yet to make those up. Long leave of absence (over a year). Failed 1 shelf before but excelled the 2nd time with accommodation. Man, even just writing this is making me feel more depressed already. If it helps at all, I graduated UC Berkeley molecular cell biology with a 3.85, but have always run out of time on those standardized exams (SAT, MCAT, USMLE, NBME shelves).

Not sure if this info is necessary, but as for my SO who's applying for FM, he's the opposite of me-- low Step 1 (<210), improved on step 2 (227), then completed his clerkships with flying colors (great evals all the way, despite no honor). He didn't take any time off.

 

[lymphocyte]

So I'm also wondering if I should just withdraw that request and try to retake it before August, that way theres a chance a passing score can make it into my ERAS.

It sounds like you've had a tough lot. I'm sorry. Can you give NBME a call? From the website, "NBME Disability Services will acknowledge receipt of your request by e-mail within a few business days of receiving your request for test accommodations. If you do not receive an acknowledgement within that timeframe, please contact Disability Services at 215-590-9700."

I'm just a fellow MS4, but I know a bit about Step 2 from tutoring others. It's impossible to answer this question without knowing what your chances of passing are (a passing score can only make it onto ERAS if you pass in the first place).

How are you doing on the NBMEs? They are the single best predictor of how you'll do on the real deal, especially if you take them under strict test-like conditions (which should also simulate some of the distractions you might be sensitive too). UWorld timed random mixed is decent prognostically.

has some concerning comments for OB, surgery, medicine AI, and psych AI.

Is there any way to keep these comments out of your MPSE?

 

[psychhopefull2016]

Step 1: 245
Step 2 CK/ CS: haven't taken yet
School: Top 20
Class Rank: no idea, school does not publish
Grades in Clerkship: Honors: Psych, OB, Family med. High pass: Peds, IM, Neurology, Ambulatory med. Pass: Surgery
AOA: no
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 2+ year minor psych research project. Submitting a pub soon where I will be like 3-4th author. 4th authorship from undergrad neuro research. 2 local posters and a local oral presentation. 1 club leadership and then basic volunteer experiences.
Red Flags: (step failures, etc): none
Letters: PI, IM attending, Psych attending who gave me honors, and a Psych elective attending
Overview of where you want to end up: I really want to go to University of Pittsburgh, Michigan, Mass Gen, Yale, or other schools in the north east. Only looking at programs that have in house Child and Adolescent fellowships because that is what I want to end up doing. I love the 5 year track options available at Pitt, Mass Gen, Yale, and Brown!