2016-2017 "What are my Chances?" thread

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Just make sure you apply to some of all three. You don't want to miss your chance to get in a "fancier place", and you want to match. Make sure you have two or three in each tier and don't go too crazy with the total number. If you can't get in two or three of the top, it isn't likely that ten or eleven of the top will change your odds that much. Good luck,

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Step 1: 216 (COMLEX 619)
Step 2 CK/ CS: 231 (COMLEX 660), PE in Sept
School: New DO School in the Southeast
Class Rank: Low Middle
Grades in Clerkship: Honors in Psych, Peds, FM; High Pass in all others except for one of my IM rotations which was a Pass; good comments on my evals, but likely just average/below average letters I expect (because I never really got to know most of my attendings)
AOA: N/A
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: No research or publications, below average ECs (nothing to show demonstrated interest in Psych, unfortunately)
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) None, other than DO student from new school
Overview of where you want to end up: Southeast, South central or Southern Midwest at a decent University program
Where I plan to apply: (This is more of a sampling and will likely apply to 60 or so programs because I am very risk averse)
Deep Reaches: Johns Hopkins, Wash U (St. Louis), Duke, Stanford, Vanderbilt
Reaches: MUSC, UNC, Carolinas, UTMB (Galveston), Baylor
Attainables: Wake Forest, University of South Carolina - Palmetto, UAMS, USF, Vidant (ECU), University of Oklahoma School of Community Med, Greenville Health System, UTenn-Memphis, UTex-Austin, UTex-Houston, UCF, UF, UF-Jacksonville, Jackson Memorial (Miami), UHawaii
Safeties - MSU (AOA/ACGME), John Peter Smith Hospital (Fort Worth), Larkin Community Hospital, MAHEC (Asheville, NC), Maricopa Medical Center (Phoenix), Citrus Health Network (Hialeh, FL)

I am open to any suggestions as well as just if you think this list is correct or if I have overestimated my competitiveness. I do not plan to apply to any AOA programs at the moment, but would like to know if that is a bad idea or not.
 
Step 1: 216 (COMLEX 619)
Step 2 CK/ CS: 231 (COMLEX 660), PE in Sept
School: New DO School in the Southeast
Class Rank: Low Middle
Grades in Clerkship: Honors in Psych, Peds, FM; High Pass in all others except for one of my IM rotations which was a Pass; good comments on my evals, but likely just average/below average letters I expect (because I never really got to know most of my attendings)
AOA: N/A
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: No research or publications, below average ECs (nothing to show demonstrated interest in Psych, unfortunately)
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) None, other than DO student from new school
Overview of where you want to end up: Southeast, South central or Southern Midwest at a decent University program
Where I plan to apply: (This is more of a sampling and will likely apply to 60 or so programs because I am very risk averse)
Deep Reaches: Johns Hopkins, Wash U (St. Louis), Duke, Stanford, Vanderbilt
Reaches: MUSC, UNC, Carolinas, UTMB (Galveston), Baylor
Attainables: Wake Forest, University of South Carolina - Palmetto, UAMS, USF, Vidant (ECU), University of Oklahoma School of Community Med, Greenville Health System, UTenn-Memphis, UTex-Austin, UTex-Houston, UCF, UF, UF-Jacksonville, Jackson Memorial (Miami), UHawaii
Safeties - MSU (AOA/ACGME), John Peter Smith Hospital (Fort Worth), Larkin Community Hospital, MAHEC (Asheville, NC), Maricopa Medical Center (Phoenix), Citrus Health Network (Hialeh, FL)

I am open to any suggestions as well as just if you think this list is correct or if I have overestimated my competitiveness. I do not plan to apply to any AOA programs at the moment, but would like to know if that is a bad idea or not.

Why no UK or UofL? They would fit nicely into your attainable category, and I see you have Tennessee on there. Louisville = much less terrible place than Memphis.
 
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I'm updating my information as I got my step 2 CK and CS scores back and I wanted to see if it changed anything and wanted to see if anybody had any more thoughts on my chances:

Step 1: 250s
Step 2 CK/ CS: High 250s/Pass
School: Northeast MD School. Nothing special name-wise.
Class Rank: Unsure. My school officially does not rank but I expect that my rank would be high as my preclinical grades were nearly all honors.
Grades in Clerkship: 2 honors (including psych), 4HP
AOA: who knows, probably have a shot.
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Research assistant on a psych project between first and second year but did not get pubs from it. One possible case report in the works on a psych related topic from a patient on my psych rotation. Tutor for first and second year courses, step 1. Numerous preclinical academic awards.
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) none
Overview of where you want to end up: Strong urban academic hospitals on the east coast from New England down to Baltimore. I've been considering places like Brigham, BI, Penn, Yale, Columbia, Cornell, Hopkins, as well as some places like Temple, Tufts, Jefferson, etc. I'll probably apply to MGH but expect a rejection based on my little research credentials.
 
Repost since this thread is a lot more active now and I have my Level 2 scores.

Comlex 1: 530s
Comlex 2: 570s / Passed PE
School: Midwest DO school
Class Rank: Likely third quartile.
Grades in Clerkship: 3 Honors (Peds, FM & EM), rest High Pass with the exception of Radiology and Psychiatry. Everyone on my rotation received either P/F on those rotations. Will be relying on my LORs for Psych to show I'm not actually a dunce.
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: No publications. Limited research experience. Healthy amount of volunteering and involvement in school/outside organizations.
Red Flags (step failures, etc): No major red flags.
Overview of where you want to end up:
Program interests include Indiana, Cincinnati, Ohio State, UK, UofL, Michigan State, Case Western, Cleveland Clinic, etc. But I have about 50 programs on my list, including a couple reaches like Vandy. Strong interest in Child Psych and will be applying Triple Board as well.
 
Why no UK or UofL? They would fit nicely into your attainable category, and I see you have Tennessee on there. Louisville = much less terrible place than Memphis.
Thanks for the response! I actually have both of those programs on my longer list with about 60 or so programs. I have actually heard great things about the UofL program. Also, do you think my list is appropriate for my stats or does it need to be adjusted? I tried to get a general idea for how competitive programs are, but it's kind of tough to gauge as someone who has never been through the process before.
 
I'm updating my information as I got my step 2 CK and CS scores back and I wanted to see if it changed anything and wanted to see if anybody had any more thoughts on my chances:

Step 1: 250s
Step 2 CK/ CS: High 250s/Pass
School: Northeast MD School. Nothing special name-wise.
Class Rank: Unsure. My school officially does not rank but I expect that my rank would be high as my preclinical grades were nearly all honors.
Grades in Clerkship: 2 honors (including psych), 4HP
AOA: who knows, probably have a shot.
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Research assistant on a psych project between first and second year but did not get pubs from it. One possible case report in the works on a psych related topic from a patient on my psych rotation. Tutor for first and second year courses, step 1. Numerous preclinical academic awards.
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) none
Overview of where you want to end up: Strong urban academic hospitals on the east coast from New England down to Baltimore. I've been considering places like Brigham, BI, Penn, Yale, Columbia, Cornell, Hopkins, as well as some places like Temple, Tufts, Jefferson, etc. I'll probably apply to MGH but expect a rejection based on my little research credentials.
Even without research that's a very strong application. I think you'll match wherever you want. Glad to see people are thinking of BWH/BI as strong programs individually (they are).
 
Polite bump

Step 1: Only took Level 1: 455
Step 2 CK/ CS: Will take this summer
School: DO school
Class Rank: In the third quartile.
Grades in Clerkship: Most clerkship grades from preceptors were Honors or HP, shelf exams brought them down to HP or P.
AOA:
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Published twice in Undergrad for Psych research as a third author. First author on a poster I presented. Lead TA for my medical school. Leadership in a national Psych organization
Red Flags: None other than not having Step

Looking at some AOA programs and some ACGME. Just want to be on a coast. Have 2 AOA auditions and 1 ACGME audition (met the PD and she seemed to like me so opened up a spot)
 
Just make sure you apply to some of all three. You don't want to miss your chance to get in a "fancier place", and you want to match. Make sure you have two or three in each tier and don't go too crazy with the total number. If you can't get in two or three of the top, it isn't likely that ten or eleven of the top will change your odds that much. Good luck,
Thank you, will do. It's hard not to overdo it though, kids in my class are applying to 40+ programs. I'll try to limit myself to 30, and do a max of 13 interviews.
 

Got my Step 2 CK back, 235. With that and found out I'm Gold Humanism and have heard that two of my letter writers are planning "to write their best recommendations in ten years" do you think Colorado would be a realistic possibility still? It has just about everything I am looking for in a program. .

Colorado is not that competitive (great program though, from what I've heard) and with your stats and Gold Humanism you should have a great shot.
 
I'm updating my information as I got my step 2 CK and CS scores back and I wanted to see if it changed anything and wanted to see if anybody had any more thoughts on my chances:

Step 1: 250s
Step 2 CK/ CS: High 250s/Pass
School: Northeast MD School. Nothing special name-wise.
Class Rank: Unsure. My school officially does not rank but I expect that my rank would be high as my preclinical grades were nearly all honors.
Grades in Clerkship: 2 honors (including psych), 4HP
AOA: who knows, probably have a shot.
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Research assistant on a psych project between first and second year but did not get pubs from it. One possible case report in the works on a psych related topic from a patient on my psych rotation. Tutor for first and second year courses, step 1. Numerous preclinical academic awards.
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) none
Overview of where you want to end up: Strong urban academic hospitals on the east coast from New England down to Baltimore. I've been considering places like Brigham, BI, Penn, Yale, Columbia, Cornell, Hopkins, as well as some places like Temple, Tufts, Jefferson, etc. I'll probably apply to MGH but expect a rejection based on my little research credentials.
Apply to them all! You've definitely got the numbers for them, if you can come off genuinely interest in psych on your apps with regional ties then you've got a great chance at interviewing for most of them.
 
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Apply to them all! You've definitely got the numbers for them, if you can come off genuinely interest in psych on your apps with regional ties then you've got a great chance at interviewing for most of them.

Thanks! Hopefully I wind up at a great place.

I grew up near one of the big east coast cities, went to college in the northeast/midatlantic and my med school is in another east coast city. I don't know how much that counts for, but hopefully something. How much do you think that stuff matters?

I'm pretty sure I can come across as someone who has a genuine interest. My letter writers have all told me how nice it was to have someone so enthusiastic (esp about psych), compassionate, thoughtful and intelligent (their words not mine) on their teams. I think I tend to make good impressions. I love psychiatry and I feel like I've "come home" since finally doing electives in it. I talk about it constantly even with non-medical friends and about how amazing it is to talk to people, give them support in their times of crisis, learn about the science of their human mind, and help them get better. I honestly think it's just the coolest thing in the world to get to observe the entire spectrum of human experience and to improve patients' lives in the process.

Sorry about the rant. I just get myself worked up sometimes, I just love this field so much.
 
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Step 1: 216 (COMLEX 619)
Step 2 CK/ CS: 231 (COMLEX 660), PE in Sept
School: New DO School in the Southeast
Class Rank: Low Middle
Grades in Clerkship: Honors in Psych, Peds, FM; High Pass in all others except for one of my IM rotations which was a Pass; good comments on my evals, but likely just average/below average letters I expect (because I never really got to know most of my attendings)
AOA: N/A
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: No research or publications, below average ECs (nothing to show demonstrated interest in Psych, unfortunately)
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) None, other than DO student from new school
Overview of where you want to end up: Southeast, South central or Southern Midwest at a decent University program
Where I plan to apply: (This is more of a sampling and will likely apply to 60 or so programs because I am very risk averse)
Deep Reaches: Johns Hopkins, Wash U (St. Louis), Duke, Stanford, Vanderbilt
Reaches: MUSC, UNC, Carolinas, UTMB (Galveston), Baylor
Attainables: Wake Forest, University of South Carolina - Palmetto, UAMS, USF, Vidant (ECU), University of Oklahoma School of Community Med, Greenville Health System, UTenn-Memphis, UTex-Austin, UTex-Houston, UCF, UF, UF-Jacksonville, Jackson Memorial (Miami), UHawaii
Safeties - MSU (AOA/ACGME), John Peter Smith Hospital (Fort Worth), Larkin Community Hospital, MAHEC (Asheville, NC), Maricopa Medical Center (Phoenix), Citrus Health Network (Hialeh, FL)

I am open to any suggestions as well as just if you think this list is correct or if I have overestimated my competitiveness. I do not plan to apply to any AOA programs at the moment, but would like to know if that is a bad idea or not.

The last 3 or so WAMC posters have not really had someone give advice yet (including myself). Could someone take the time to answer a few real quick? It would be a great help, and for some reason many of the DO posters aren't getting answers (even those with USMLE scores). Any chance there is a DO resident or attending out there that can help? Or anyone (DO or MD) for that matter (haha). Thanks in advance!
 
I would love to give everyone assurance that things will be fine, but I think the silence indicates that most of us just don't have a clue anymore. Does anyone have any stats on # of DOs that applied to psych and how many got in?
 
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The last 3 or so WAMC posters have not really had someone give advice yet (including myself). Could someone take the time to answer a few real quick? It would be a great help, and for some reason many of the DO posters aren't getting answers (even those with USMLE scores). Any chance there is a DO resident or attending out there that can help? Or anyone (DO or MD) for that matter (haha). Thanks in advance!

If it helps at all, I've talked to a few DOs at ACGME programs that have reassured me that I should have a fighting chance based on their own experiences and similar stats. All are from Midwest programs. This is purely anecdotal and could likely be very different this year. I'm just going to apply broadly (including AOA to keep the door open) and hope for the best!
 
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The last 3 or so WAMC posters have not really had someone give advice yet (including myself). Could someone take the time to answer a few real quick? It would be a great help, and for some reason many of the DO posters aren't getting answers (even those with USMLE scores). Any chance there is a DO resident or attending out there that can help? Or anyone (DO or MD) for that matter (haha). Thanks in advance!

I'll take a stab at it. I've replied to a few others in earlier pages here and that advice still applies. (Definitely read those). Bottom line, the game is tight for D.O.s at some places, especially on the coasts and in the traditionally more competitive places. Sure, it's "still psychiatry" but the landscape appears to be changing with an increased interest and with that will come the bump in applications. Regardless of what you will hear (or what one may want to believe), most programs will want to fill top to bottom with an MD roster. Yes, everyone would rather have the best applicant, period, but from what I'm seeing just at my program right now, there are a lot of really solid MD students demonstrating interest. Attendings have mentioned a perceived increase in interest as well. (I know, anecdotal, but I'm guessing this isn't so unique). That said, you will need higher scores and a better application overall as compared to your MD counterparts. (Nothing new there). Even then, you may still be at a disadvantage. The upside is that this may not be the case everywhere (think Midwest) and with a (demonstrated) genuine interest you have a shot.

My advice pretty much applies to all DO students: take the USMLE, apply to 30-40 programs, utilize the rule of 1/3s in both applications and interview acceptances (but apply this rule relative to your situation), and hope for the best. In all honestly, if I lacked a USMLE and/or had scores on the lower end for either USMLE or COMLEX, I would consider adding in a few programs from another specialty of interest. I would say that if you spread yourself out evenly with the 1/3 thing and you're not hearing back from ~1/2 of those places, then it's time to start calling audibles. This especially applies to those with lower scores or any red flags (btw DO is not a red flag). If the interviews aren't rolling in on the psych side of things, start attending the back-up places. It would be much better to match into your back-up specialty in a program you like than to scramble for the scraps in the SOAP. And I'm talking the scraps in the back-up specialty because odds are there won't be many psychiatry spots left-over. (I think there were 11 last year).

So yeah, this process is a bit of a crap shoot. It kind of sucks TBH, but it is what it is. Either way, you'll survive and end up exactly where you need to be. Keep the faith. Do your best. Trust your gut. And try to enjoy it because there are good moments and experiences to be had on this bumpy road.

Feel free to PM with questions.
 
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Polite bump

Step 1: Only took Level 1: 455
Step 2 CK/ CS: Will take this summer
School: DO school
Class Rank: In the third quartile.
Grades in Clerkship: Most clerkship grades from preceptors were Honors or HP, shelf exams brought them down to HP or P.
AOA:
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars:
Published twice in Undergrad for Psych research as a third author. First author on a poster I presented. Lead TA for my medical school. Leadership in a national Psych organization
Red Flags: None other than not having Step

Looking at some AOA programs and some ACGME. Just want to be on a coast. Have 2 AOA auditions and 1 ACGME audition (met the PD and she seemed to like me so opened up a spot)
Read my post above (and others to DOs in this thread on earlier pages). Seriously consider adding a back-up specialty. Which AOA programs? (You can PM me if you're not comfortable saying here). Good luck on the away rotations.
 
I'll take a stab at it. I've replied to a few others in earlier pages here and that advice still applies. (Definitely read those). Bottom line, the game is tight for D.O.s at some places, especially on the coasts and in the traditionally more competitive places. Sure, it's "still psychiatry" but the landscape appears to be changing with an increased interest and with that will come the bump in applications. Regardless of what you will hear (or what one may want to believe), most programs will want to fill top to bottom with an MD roster. Yes, everyone would rather have the best applicant, period, but from what I'm seeing just at my program right now, there are a lot of really solid MD students demonstrating interest. Attendings have mentioned a perceived increase in interest as well. (I know, anecdotal, but I'm guessing this isn't so unique). That said, you will need higher scores and a better application overall as compared to your MD counterparts. (Nothing new there). Even then, you may still be at a disadvantage. The upside is that this may not be the case everywhere (think Midwest) and with a (demonstrated) genuine interest you have a shot.

My advice pretty much applies to all DO students: take the USMLE, apply to 30-40 programs, utilize the rule of 1/3s in both applications and interview acceptances (but apply this rule relative to your situation), and hope for the best. In all honestly, if I lacked a USMLE and/or had scores on the lower end for either USMLE or COMLEX, I would consider adding in a few programs from another specialty of interest. I would say that if you spread yourself out evenly with the 1/3 thing and you're not hearing back from ~1/2 of those places, then it's time to start calling audibles. This especially applies to those with lower scores or any red flags (btw DO is not a red flag). If the interviews aren't rolling in on the psych side of things, start attending the back-up places. It would be much better to match into your back-up specialty in a program you like than to scramble for the scraps in the SOAP. And I'm talking the scraps in the back-up specialty because odds are there won't be many psychiatry spots left-over. (I think there were 11 last year).

So yeah, this process is a bit of a crap shoot. It kind of sucks TBH, but it is what it is. Either way, you'll survive and end up exactly where you need to be. Keep the faith. Do your best. Trust your gut. And try to enjoy it because there are good moments and experiences to be had on this bumpy road.

Thanks for responding! I already planned on applying to about 60 places, so I hope that is enough with my stats. Do you think someone like me needs a backup specialty or would adding about 15 or so Midwest programs be enough? Such as U of Kentucky, U of Louisville, Missouri U, etc. I honestly don't think I would be near as happy in any other specialty, so I really want to match.



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Damn. Everybody in here is talking about how much more competitive psychiatry is getting. I was talking to the PD at my school the other day and he was saying something similar.

It's making me scared. I know I'm an allopathic student and a competitive applicant generally but it definitely does not inspire confidence that I'll wind up at one of the places I really like. I don't think this whole deal is confidence inspiring for anyone.

If it's true, it's great for the field but definitely makes us applicants nervous.
 
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Damn. Everybody in here is talking about how much more competitive psychiatry is getting. I was talking to the PD at my school the other day and he was saying something similar.

It's making me scared. I know I'm an allopathic student and a competitive applicant generally but it definitely does not inspire confidence that I'll wind up at one of the places I really like. I don't think this whole deal is confidence inspiring for anyone.

If it's true, it's great for the field but definitely makes us applicants nervous.
You're allopathic and competitive. You will be fine.
 
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Thanks for responding! I already planned on applying to about 60 places, so I hope that is enough with my stats. Do you think someone like me needs a backup specialty or would adding about 15 or so Midwest programs be enough? Such as U of Kentucky, U of Louisville, Missouri U, etc. I honestly don't think I would be near as happy in any other specialty, so I really want to match.



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I think you will be ok without backup specialty. 60 may be pushing it but if you have the dough, I guess go for it. That said, you can probably go with half of that and be fine as long as those 30 or so are reasonable.

Still feel bad for the PDs who were smashed with apps last year! I'm guessing this year won't be much different.
 
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You're allopathic and competitive. You will be fine.

I know, and thanks for the reassurance.

It's just that people have different definitions of things being "fine." Of course I feel for people who are worried about even matching into the specialty they love, but I think people define things in relation to their realistic goals. I just worry, for instance that if the specialty is becoming this competitive, I will get beat out for the places I really like by people with far more research experience.

I know that this is a trivial worry compared to the worries of others but it's real to me. I guess it is what it is though and there's not much I can do about it.
 
I know, and thanks for the reassurance.

It's just that people have different definitions of things being "fine." Of course I feel for people who are worried about even matching into the specialty they love, but I think people define things in relation to their realistic goals. I just worry, for instance that if the specialty is becoming this competitive, I will get beat out for the places I really like by people with far more research experience.

I know that this is a trivial worry compared to the worries of others but it's real to me. I guess it is what it is though and there's not much I can do about it.
I hear ya @sloop I will be applying next year, so I don't have all of my application data yet, but I expect to be a decent applicant and, coming of a "brand name" school in the Northeast I'm quite confident that I'm going to match *somewhere* in psychiatry. The problem is, I have very strong geographic preferences and certain interests and career goals that I don't want to end up just *anywhere*. Which does induce some anxiety even a year ahead of my application cycle. So, even though it's definitely a better problem to have than not matching at all, I understand you.

That said, you *are* a very competitive applicant, and even the top places like MGH/McLean and Columbia/NYSPI don't really *require* research, especially if you stand out in other ways, such as being an AOA member (which you have a very high chance of becoming), high level unique extracurriculars (something like being an Olympic athlete or a concert pianist or starting a successful non-profit etc. - top programs like unique and interesting applicants who may have succeeded in areas outside of medicine) etc. Unless you're applying to research track, you shouldn't worry about the paucity of research experience.

Good luck!
 
Read my post above (and others to DOs in this thread on earlier pages). Seriously consider adding a back-up specialty. Which AOA programs? (You can PM me if you're not comfortable saying here). Good luck on the away rotations.

For lower comlex scores, would applying to a lot of uncompetitive programs be enough to get in?

I wonder if we can start a post on his forum looking at anecdotes of comlex only applicants.
 
I know, and thanks for the reassurance.

It's just that people have different definitions of things being "fine." Of course I feel for people who are worried about even matching into the specialty they love, but I think people define things in relation to their realistic goals. I just worry, for instance that if the specialty is becoming this competitive, I will get beat out for the places I really like by people with far more research experience.

I know that this is a trivial worry compared to the worries of others but it's real to me. I guess it is what it is though and there's not much I can do about it.

This is exactly how I feel. There is a specific top tier program I am desperate for both person and professional reasons and I'm sweating bullets already
 
I know, and thanks for the reassurance.

It's just that people have different definitions of things being "fine." Of course I feel for people who are worried about even matching into the specialty they love, but I think people define things in relation to their realistic goals. I just worry, for instance that if the specialty is becoming this competitive, I will get beat out for the places I really like by people with far more research experience.

I know that this is a trivial worry compared to the worries of others but it's real to me. I guess it is what it is though and there's not much I can do about it.
This is entirely fair - but the point still stands. You will be "fine" for top-tier programs, in the sense that once your board scores are at some level, your grades are some level, you have a shot at an interview just like everyone else. After that, these programs have their pick from the cream of the crop, so we can't really say much beyond that. They'll probably give spots to folks with 20+ publications, spots to people who were born in a refugee camp and involved in that kind of stuff through college/med school, spots to athletes, spots to people who were really fun to work with on a Sub-I, spots to someone who was just super interesting to talk to on interview day, or a million other things. Of course, that kind of stuff is hard to gauge on a forum like this, and even if we did have that information, its not like we know what any given program really wants at this point in time.

Unfortunately, all we can really say with some level of confidence, is tell that person with a 210/DO/FMG/bottom 25% of their class, that they probably shouldn't be applying to too many MacLean/UCSF tier programs.
'
Those of you with 230+/top25 MD school and no other EC's, who the hell knows. Maybe UCLA-NPI or Columbia will give you an interview, or maybe not. But I would still recommend applying if you want to go there.
 
This is entirely fair - but the point still stands. You will be "fine" for top-tier programs, in the sense that once your board scores are at some level, your grades are some level, you have a shot at an interview just like everyone else. After that, these programs have their pick from the cream of the crop, so we can't really say much beyond that. They'll probably give spots to folks with 20+ publications, spots to people who were born in a refugee camp and involved in that kind of stuff through college/med school, spots to athletes, spots to people who were really fun to work with on a Sub-I, spots to someone who was just super interesting to talk to on interview day, or a million other things. Of course, that kind of stuff is hard to gauge on a forum like this, and even if we did have that information, its not like we know what any given program really wants at this point in time.

Unfortunately, all we can really say with some level of confidence, is tell that person with a 210/DO/FMG/bottom 25% of their class, that they probably shouldn't be applying to too many MacLean/UCSF tier programs.
'
Those of you with 230+/top25 MD school and no other EC's, who the hell knows. Maybe UCLA-NPI or Columbia will give you an interview, or maybe not. But I would still recommend applying if you want to go there.

This is great advice. For your own anxiety's sake, a possibly useful exercise is identifying the top tier place you most desperately want to/feel you need to go to.

Assume you won't. I mean, apply there, interview there, put on your best show, but assume you won't get it. This will make the rest of the process less nerve-racking and accurately reflects the chances of any very selective particular place really liking you. Also, it means there is more to March than just unlimited downside.
 
This is great advice. For your own anxiety's sake, a possibly useful exercise is identifying the top tier place you most desperately want to/feel you need to go to.

Assume you won't. I mean, apply there, interview there, put on your best show, but assume you won't get it. This will make the rest of the process less nerve-racking and accurately reflects the chances of any very selective particular place really liking you. Also, it means there is more to March than just unlimited downside.
This reminds me of the advice I got during my medical school application cycle, which I believe still stands for residency applications: don't get too attached to any one school/program. First of all, even with great stats, given the number of applicants, individual idiosyncrasies and pure dumb luck (or lack thereof), there is always an element of chance in where you end up going to, which is neither your fault nor something you can control. Second, your favorite place may disappoint you, and the place you end up at may turn out to be just the right fit for you. Che sara sara.
 
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For lower comlex scores, would applying to a lot of uncompetitive programs be enough to get in?

I wonder if we can start a post on his forum looking at anecdotes of comlex only applicants.
Definitely check out the stickies for the DO FAQs and DO "friendly" programs. I know of a few colleagues who did well with COMLEX only and one had scores on the lower end, although she had a decent amount of research. My advice is to not let anecdotes keep you from applying somewhere because you may be surprised when you take a chance. Just play it smart in terms of spreading yourself out to cover that rule of 1/3s you may so often hear of.

You could start a thread but I'm not sure how much foot traffic you will see there. Even so, the experiences of residents who matched 2 to 3 years ago may not be the best litmus for today's environment. I met a few 3rd year residents (DO) on the trail who mentioned that they would struggle matching at their program today. A program well within reason a couple years back may be a reach now. One that comes to mind is NSLIJ. A nice portion of DO residents in every class up until this past match but US allopathic across the board for 2016. I think the strongest contributing factor here is word-of-mouth as it being a hidden gem but the increased interest amongst allopathic students is likely playing a role.

As far as back up specialty goes, sure you could apply to those programs on the lower end of the spectrum competitively speaking but no guarantees there. I was pretty surprised about places I heard back being that some places I considered reaches responded with invites while those I thought of as shoe-ins were all crickets. I'm of the opinion that I'd rather match at a good program in a back-up specialty than a malignant one in the choice specialty. Just steer clear of the sweatshops!

Anyhow best of luck. PM me if you have any specific questions.
 
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Out of the recent grads from my school who went into psychiatry - half of them took COMLEX only and the other half took the USMLE/COMLEX combo. All of them did well in the match. But, If you want to be safe as a DO student - just take the USMLE.

You may need slightly more than a pulse to match psychiatry right now, but let's not get carried away. In another thread someone actually looked at the numbers dating way way back which showed at one point psychiatry was much more competetive than it is now - and it still wasn't all that competetive even in its hay day. Psych self selects for certain people more than any other specialty and that is not going to change.
 
If it helps at all, I've talked to a few DOs at ACGME programs that have reassured me that I should have a fighting chance based on their own experiences and similar stats. All are from Midwest programs. This is purely anecdotal and could likely be very different this year. I'm just going to apply broadly (including AOA to keep the door open) and hope for the best!
Hey I missed your initially post above (downside of scrolling with my older iPhone during a break). Check out some of my other posts here. You have good COMLEX scores, so no worries there. Not having a USMLE may keep you out of the running for a few places but then again, those places may likely be a tough draw even with solid Steps in the bag. Just be smart in terms of where you apply and accept invites from. Rule of 1/3s, relatively speaking. ("One man's ceiling is another man's floor" kinda thing). Check out any DO related stickies; they're all pretty solid. Read over the interview reviews (which I'm sure you're doing already) and start mapping out a plan. (I used Google maps to start getting an idea of how things were looking geographically and to take notes on places. Probably not necessary but it was fun, for me at least).

Anyhow feel free to PM if you have any specific questions.
 
Step 1: 240 COMLEX 559
Step 2 CK/ CS: Schedule in September, PE in October
School: Established DO School
Class Rank: Close to top 25%
Grades in Clerkship: No honors, HP in everything except Pass in one IM rotation.
Letters of Recommendation: FM (really liked me, did addiction psychiatry). IM (From far back, but writes good/detailed letters apparently), Psych (Should be good, but unsure of reliability.) Psych Chair (DO school doesn't have attached hospital, best we have.)
AOA: No, but osteopathic equivalent (SSP)
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Research Poster MS1, prior research posters. Eboard positions in several clubs, including EM (prior interest). Psychiatry Club.
Red Flags: 1 month LOA to study for boards after MS2. (Is this a big deal? I'm not sure.)
Overview of where you want to end up: Southwest/West Coast (not Cali)
Where I plan to apply: 30 programs, mainly in the AZ/CO/NV/NM/TX region, then elsewhere that will accept DOs.

Any thoughts? My main concerns are (1) 1 month LOA to study for Step 1 (2) I've read you should definitely get a letter from psych faculty/head of your program. We....don't really have a psych program or a hospital, as a DO school, so that kind of can't happen? Is that bad? (3) Is taking Step 2 in September after submitting ERAS bad? Scores would likely come back in late October.
Solid application w really good scores. The scores alone will keep you in the mix. Your mentioned concerns are not red flags at all. DO schools notorious for not allowing sufficient board prep time following/during M2. I also took a month to study although it was an official trade off (essentially giving up a vacation block in M3) for the structured studied month (where we actually received a grade). So it wasn't an LOA. Was yours officially a LOA? What does it say on transcript and did this put you off schedule? Depending on what that says, I would think about explicitly explaining this somewhere on ERAS. If you're on schedule, I don't think it will matter (and may not even be noticed).

As far as the letter goes from a chair... well that's what we have to deal with. It is most definitely not a requirement (even at places that state it is on websites). The important thing is that the letter is from someone who really had the chance to get to know you, observe your work ethic and genuine interest in psychiatry, and vouch for you as having potential to be a great resident and clinician one day. This is great when it comes from a well known PD but it's also pretty darn good when such words ring with truth when from a clinician. Do not sweat it.

Given the locale you mentioned I think you will do well. Maybe some other DOs from that region can chime in. There are a few here I believe if you search through posts.

Btw are you planning on taking USMLE Step 2? I took both USMLEs but not sure that was necessary. That said, I'm glad I did.

Best of luck!
 
Okay guys... Be nice-ish?

Step 1:
234
Step 2 CK/ CS: n/a
School: Top 3 MD school
Class Rank: Likely average
Grades in Clerkship: Honors in Family Medicine, High Pass in everything else; Honors in Peds and Psych Sub-I
Letters of Recommendation: 2 from Peds Sub-I, 2 from Psych; will likely (?) be strong
AOA: No
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 1 poster, 1 case report submitted for publication / a few extracurricular activities and leadership roles (nothing impressive)
Red Flags: None
Overview of where you want to end up: Top NYC programs (Columbia, NYU, MSSM, Cornell)

Thank you in advance!
Do well on step 2 and you're a top tier psychiatry applicant. You are the type of applicant I'd want if I was a PD.
 
My med school highly discourages taking Step 2 until after applications are sent out, and that's what the majority of my classmates do. I think I will follow suit. Despite this, and considering my regional restriction, do you still think I have a shot at my preferred institutions?

There are a lot of programs in NYC which is helpful. Good that your regional desires align with a place with multiple programs (mine sadly does not)
 
Okay guys... Be nice-ish?

Step 1:
234
Step 2 CK/ CS: n/a
School: Top 3 MD school
Class Rank: Likely average
Grades in Clerkship: Honors in Family Medicine, High Pass in everything else; Honors in Peds and Psych Sub-I
Letters of Recommendation: 2 from Peds Sub-I, 2 from Psych; will likely (?) be strong
AOA: No
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 1 poster, 1 case report submitted for publication / a few extracurricular activities and leadership roles (nothing impressive)
Red Flags: None
Overview of where you want to end up: Top NYC programs (Columbia, NYU, MSSM, Cornell)

Thank you in advance!

Just don't be that guy or gal who only applies to the places you listed and then posts here next year wondering why they didn't match when they applies to four whole programs.
 
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My med school highly discourages taking Step 2 until after applications are sent out, and that's what the majority of my classmates do. I think I will follow suit.

This is one of the most profound illustrations of the lack of communication between undergraduate and graduate medical education. This is horrible advice in my opinion. Most people don't fail step II. Unless you do fail it, you are better off with it than without it. You should see the chatter among program directors who matched people who then failed step II. They will be looking for step II with great interest this round, trust me.
 
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This is one of the most profound illustrations of the lack of communication between undergraduate and graduate medical education. This is horrible advice in my opinion. Most people don't fail step II. Unless you do fail it, you are better off with it than without it. You should see the chatter among program directors who matched people who then failed step II. They will be looking for step II with great interest this round, trust me.

For what it's worth, I was concerned about the possibility of doing worse on step 2 than on step 1 (since I did pretty well) as well, but based on the discussion here I figured I was better off just taking it in the hopes that any reasonable grade would be better than none as it is one less unknown about me.

I wound up doing well (and numerically better than step 1) and I think I'm overall glad I took it.

That's my n=1, but I also haven't gone through the whole application/interview process yet.
 
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This is one of the most profound illustrations of the lack of communication between undergraduate and graduate medical education. This is horrible advice in my opinion. Most people don't fail step II. Unless you do fail it, you are better off with it than without it. You should see the chatter among program directors who matched people who then failed step II. They will be looking for step II with great interest this round, trust me.

Totally agree. So glad that I have it out of the way (and I did way better than my step one which surprised the hell out of me!!) some places don't interview without a score per report from the PD at my institution. Wish I could have taken CS earlier too but travel made it difficult to take it before apps go in
 
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CS isn't a big deal, or at least I haven't heard of anyone not starting because of it. I don't know much about undergraduate policy these days, but do you need CS to graduate? It probably isn't as big of a deal because the pass rate is friendly? They didn't have such things when I went through.
 
CS isn't a big deal, or at least I haven't heard of anyone not starting because of it. I don't know much about undergraduate policy these days, but do you need CS to graduate? It probably isn't as big of a deal because the pass rate is friendly? They didn't have such things when I went through.

We have to take CS by the end of December, but I am taking it in late October because I have time off to take it. They want us to have results back by rank list time and be able to take it again by graduation if we fail.

We were required to take CK by Halloween but otherwise given 0 guidance on when would be a good time to take it, so I took it in June because I wanted to be done with it.
 
Yes, I'm familiar with the "must take by" instead of "must pass by" strategy. We do the same with step III. We also have a "must license by" that is ahead of State law. Fortunately, it doesn't specify what teeth I'm supposed to use to enforce this. So far I have only shaken my finger in someone's general direction twice.
 
Step 1: 243 (Comlex 612)
Step 2 CK/ CS: 247 (Comlex 674) / Pass
School: NE DO school
Class Rank: top 10%
Grades in Clerkship: honors in OBGYN; all else pass (we don't have HP)
AOA: N/A
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Research Assistant at top Psychiatry/Epidemiology institution with one publication for submission as author, worked as RA on other projects. Average ECs
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) None
Overview of where you want to end up: Ideally NYC or tri state area, but also looking at programs in big cities in the NE
 
Step 1: 238
Step 2 Ck/CS: Scheduled for end of August/mid September
School: Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland
Programs: anything - mostly interested in addictions psych and psychotic illness. Research focus is great.
Publications: 2 co-author - one preclinical trial of antipsychotic, and one FLAIR paper. Did a masters degree in neuroscience, masters work isn't submitted for publication yet
Grades: 1st and 2nd year - honours; 3rd year rotations: 2 honours and 3 second class honours
Red flags: none?
Any advice would be helpful! I was thinking of applying to U of Hawaii, but also U of Colorado, Seattle, Portland, NY Boston - all the big ones. I'm Canadian, so also applying to CaRMs this year, USA is a bit of a back-up plan, depending on the sorts of interviews I get.

Thank-you SO much!
 
Step 1: 238
Step 2 Ck/CS: Scheduled for end of August/mid September
School: Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland
Programs: anything - mostly interested in addictions psych and psychotic illness. Research focus is great.
Publications: 2 co-author - one preclinical trial of antipsychotic, and one FLAIR paper. Did a masters degree in neuroscience, masters work isn't submitted for publication yet
Grades: 1st and 2nd year - honours; 3rd year rotations: 2 honours and 3 second class honours
Red flags: none?
Any advice would be helpful! I was thinking of applying to U of Hawaii, but also U of Colorado, Seattle, Portland, NY Boston - all the big ones. I'm Canadian, so also applying to CaRMs this year, USA is a bit of a back-up plan, depending on the sorts of interviews I get.

Thank-you SO much!

Apart from being on a tropical island or roughly the same distance from the Canadian border, what is making you look at the programs you listed? BTW, there is not just one program in NYC or Boston, so you probably want to do a bit more research first.
 
Step 1: 243 (Comlex 612)
Step 2 CK/ CS: 247 (Comlex 674) / Pass
School: NE DO school
Class Rank: top 10%
Grades in Clerkship: honors in OBGYN; all else pass (we don't have HP)
AOA: N/A
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Research Assistant at top Psychiatry/Epidemiology institution with one publication for submission as author, worked as RA on other projects. Average ECs
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) None
Overview of where you want to end up: Ideally NYC or tri state area, but also looking at programs in big cities in the NE
Solid scores. Tri-state still a tough draw. If NYC keep SLR, Maimo, SIUH, RWJ in mind. The others are either out of your reach or sweatshops (except maybe LIJ which is within reach but still likely competitive). Be sure to apply beyond the area. If you do, I'd imagine you will do quite well for yourself. You can do extremely well in so-called fly-over country if you give it a shot. Best of luck.
 
Step 1: 238
Step 2 Ck/CS: Scheduled for end of August/mid September
School: Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland
Programs: anything - mostly interested in addictions psych and psychotic illness. Research focus is great.
Publications: 2 co-author - one preclinical trial of antipsychotic, and one FLAIR paper. Did a masters degree in neuroscience, masters work isn't submitted for publication yet
Grades: 1st and 2nd year - honours; 3rd year rotations: 2 honours and 3 second class honours
Red flags: none?
Any advice would be helpful! I was thinking of applying to U of Hawaii, but also U of Colorado, Seattle, Portland, NY Boston - all the big ones. I'm Canadian, so also applying to CaRMs this year, USA is a bit of a back-up plan, depending on the sorts of interviews I get.

Thank-you SO much!
You'll get a decent amount of interviews, I imagine! Maybe not at every place but RCSI is a well known medical school in the states and we have a co-intern here in Boston from there.
 
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