[2016] VSAS/Away Rotations Thread

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Has anyone had any issues with doing an away rotation with a patient population that predominantly speaks a language (Spanish) that you don't know at all? Re: the use of translators causing you to spend too much time seeing a patient?
 
EMhopeful2017 said:
Has anyone had any issues with doing an away rotation with a patient population that predominantly speaks a language (Spanish) that you don't know at all? Re: the use of translators causing you to spend too much time seeing a patient?
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the expectations for that number of patients you need to see as a medical student are so low that it shouldn't be a problem.
 
I'm interested in a program that goes from 8/15 - 9/11. Would this allow enough time for the submission of SLOE in a timely manner assuming the rest of my application is in and ready by Sept 15? Or would this away rotation be late enough so that this letter would cause the rest of my application to be processed late?
 
rollingstone27 said:
I'm interested in a program that goes from 8/15 - 9/11. Would this allow enough time for the submission of SLOE in a timely manner assuming the rest of my application is in and ready by Sept 15? Or would this away rotation be late enough so that this letter would cause the rest of my application to be processed late?
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This is a question to ask the actual letter writer. How will anyone here (assuming that the clerkship director isn't here on SDN) know when unknown program will upload your SLOE? Talk with whomever is writing your SLOE (usually the clerkship director or PD) about your time frame and if they have an idea about what the turn around for SLOEs are. It varies a lot by institution. As a student, I got my letter back from my current program super fast in the midst of audition season. Other programs needed multiple reminders (one admitted they just forgot). :shrug:

It is highly unlikely that the SLOE will be available by the time ERAS opens. I wouldn't worry about it too much as most programs don't start reviewing apps until early October at the soonest. This of course varies but look at previous years' invite threads to get a sense of timing. I wouldn't worry about it too much unless you could schedule an audition for sooner. Since most students want to get their auditions done well in advance, I'm going to assume that these dates are the best you can do under the circumstances. Try and relax and make the best of the situation.
 
I really hit the jackpot by applying to six rotations that still haven't transitioned to 'under review' in mid-May.
 
doggydog said:
I really hit the jackpot by applying to six rotations that still haven't transitioned to 'under review' in mid-May.
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Have you contacted the coordinator just to check on the status of your application? I did that for one of my rotations and seemed to have helped expedite things
 
Cinematographer said:
Have you contacted the coordinator just to check on the status of your application? I did that for one of my rotations and seemed to have helped expedite things
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Yeah, I've done it for a few of them. They told me to be patient, more or less.
 
doggydog said:
Yeah, I've done it for a few of them. They told me to be patient, more or less.
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I asked yesterday and got a decision today. Not the decision I was hoping for, but a decision nonetheless. 1 VSAS and 1 home program struck out for August.
 
KinesiologyNerd said:
I asked yesterday and got a decision today. Not the decision I was hoping for, but a decision nonetheless. 1 VSAS and 1 home program struck out for August.
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They couldn't squeeze you into your home rotation? That's cold.
 
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I've applied to 6 programs at this point and heard back from 3 (all wait list and/or trying to see if they can fit me in a different block). At what point should I start to worry? I was only trying to get one away as I was told by a few people and the PD at my home program that should be all I need. My grades and step one are competitive so, I'm not sure why I'm getting the cold shoulder from all these programs. Is this typical at all?
 
stognerb said:
I've applied to 6 programs at this point and heard back from 3 (all wait list and/or trying to see if they can fit me in a different block). At what point should I start to worry? I was only trying to get one away as I was told by a few people and the PD at my home program that should be all I need. My grades and step one are competitive so, I'm not sure why I'm getting the cold shoulder from all these programs. Is this typical at all?
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Are you being realistic with your choices?
 
doggydog said:
I'm not sure what you mean by this. I was under the impression that a lot of these rotations were first come first served.
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I mean I don't know, but any combination of requiring CV/step 1/personal statement/LOR/first born son really suggests against "first come first served" to me. Then there's a giant program like Hennepin that doesn't require any of that. That's pretty awesome.
 
doggydog said:
I'm not sure what you mean by this. I was under the impression that a lot of these rotations were first come first served.
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I don't think that is universal. Good programs will preferentially take people with higher scores or more impressive CVs. There is a reason why that information is submitted to VSAS.
 
racerwad said:
This is a question to ask the actual letter writer. How will anyone here (assuming that the clerkship director isn't here on SDN) know when unknown program will upload your SLOE? Talk with whomever is writing your SLOE (usually the clerkship director or PD) about your time frame and if they have an idea about what the turn around for SLOEs are. It varies a lot by institution. As a student, I got my letter back from my current program super fast in the midst of audition season. Other programs needed multiple reminders (one admitted they just forgot). :shrug:

It is highly unlikely that the SLOE will be available by the time ERAS opens. I wouldn't worry about it too much as most programs don't start reviewing apps until early October at the soonest. This of course varies but look at previous years' invite threads to get a sense of timing. I wouldn't worry about it too much unless you could schedule an audition for sooner. Since most students want to get their auditions done well in advance, I'm going to assume that these dates are the best you can do under the circumstances. Try and relax and make the best of the situation.
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Thanks for your reply. I have an away offer a couple weeks earlier, but I'd like to go to the second because it's a more convenient location. I'm concerned that a late SLOE will negatively affect my candidacy , and I was wondering if previous students could comment on their experiences with how long it typically takes for the letter to be completed and uploaded. And though programs don't start reviewing app until early October, my understanding is that if your ERAS is in after Sept 15, it's late. Will a SLOE submitted after the rest of my application affect my "place in line"?
 
rollingstone27 said:
Thanks for your reply. I have an away offer a couple weeks earlier, but I'd like to go to the second because it's a more convenient location. I'm concerned that a late SLOE will negatively affect my candidacy , and I was wondering if previous students could comment on their experiences with how long it typically takes for the letter to be completed and uploaded. And though programs don't start reviewing app until early October, my understanding is that if your ERAS is in after Sept 15, it's late. Will a SLOE submitted after the rest of my application affect my "place in line"?
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It's extremely variable. My home SLOE from July was uploaded 4 weeks later in late August, my 1st away SLOE from August was uploaded 2 weeks later in mid September, and my 2nd away SLOE from September was uploaded 4 weeks later in late October. In any event, a good rule of thumb is that most programs will try to upload it within a month.

A late SLOE will only negatively affect your application if you don't have 3 LORs submitted by September 15th. In that case you'll have an incomplete application and programs that review applications early in September will skip over your application. As long as you can get either 2 SLOEs and 1 personal letter or 1 SLOE and 2 personal letters by September 15th you should be fine.
 
rollingstone27 said:
Thanks for your reply. I have an away offer a couple weeks earlier, but I'd like to go to the second because it's a more convenient location. I'm concerned that a late SLOE will negatively affect my candidacy , and I was wondering if previous students could comment on their experiences with how long it typically takes for the letter to be completed and uploaded. And though programs don't start reviewing app until early October, my understanding is that if your ERAS is in after Sept 15, it's late. Will a SLOE submitted after the rest of my application affect my "place in line"?
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Sorry, I thought I just answered your question in the quote you replied to? As @alpinism said, it is extremely variable. The letter writers also have their own lives and things come up to it is hard to say without knowing the program(s) in question what their turn around has been historically.

Of course a late SLOE will impact you negatively. How much is the actual question, right? If you can't adjust your schedule or there are other limitations to why you can't do an audition sooner, then you just have to make due with what you have.
 
KinesiologyNerd said:
I mean I don't know, but any combination of requiring CV/step 1/personal statement/LOR/first born son really suggests against "first come first served" to me. Then there's a giant program like Hennepin that doesn't require any of that. That's pretty awesome.
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I believe that Hennepin actually requires a 240+ and for the student to be in the top quartile of their class.(One of my classmates got an audition there)
 
IH8ColdWeath3r said:
I believe that Hennepin actually requires a 240+ and for the student to be in the top quartile of their class.(One of my classmates got an audition there)
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I don't think so. I have a friend that got an away with below those stats to there.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
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IH8ColdWeath3r said:
I believe that Hennepin actually requires a 240+ and for the student to be in the top quartile of their class.(One of my classmates got an audition there)
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Your classmate may just be talking himself/herself up.

No school on VSAS requires a 240+ to do audition rotations (and non-VSAS as well). Most of the stated cut-offs are 210+ or 220+. Also, I don't know of any programs that decide on your class rank. Per 2014 PD survey, only 83% of PDs thought class rank was important (8 other factors > 83%) and the average importance was 3.7 (21 other factors > 3.7 rating). Basically, it's not important at all for selection of applicants, as they'll look at 21 other things before class rank.

There may be a few schools that require a 230+ for interviews, but I have not heard of a 240 cut off for interviews.
 
Got Em said:
Your classmate may just be talking himself/herself up.

No school on VSAS requires a 240+ to do audition rotations (and non-VSAS as well). Most of the stated cut-offs are 210+ or 220+. Also, I don't know of any programs that decide on your class rank. Per 2014 PD survey, only 83% of PDs thought class rank was important (8 other factors > 83%) and the average importance was 3.7 (21 other factors > 3.7 rating). Basically, it's not important at all for selection of applicants, as they'll look at 21 other things before class rank.

There may be a few schools that require a 230+ for interviews, but I have not heard of a 240 cut off for interviews.
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Good to know man! Thanks! I figured it was something like that. I have a 220's step I as a DO. Haven't gotten much love from places I applied to audition, which I honestly though that 220 was fairly decent and I could apply to some reach places (even though I haven't even done that). It is frustrating just waiting.
 
Cinematographer said:
So, let's get started with some suggested threads:
And some highly recommended learning resources:
Additional learning resources recommended by SDN members:
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Bumping thread simply to remind those of you staring away electives soon of some online resources you might to check out before and/or during your EM rotation. Good luck to all of rising M4s.
 
IIRC on Frieda's last year only one or two places listed that their residents had an average of above 240.. One was Denver. I don't remember the other (I want to say Oregon or Washington)... Of course a lot of the places that probably have higher cutoffs didn't list their average step 1. For vsas 220 and 230 weren't uncommon cutoffs. I was even surprised by one of the schools that had a 230 cutoff. If you have any doubt ask an EM advisor at school or your clerkship director. They have access to some super cut off list that aren't posted anywhere on the internet. At the same time when it comes to applying for interviews if your score is the only thing holding yourself back then By all means apply to programs that you are below their cutoff. I got a handful of interviews at places where I was below their listed cutoff. As talked about in other threads a step score is just one small piece of the puzzle.
 
So there is a lot of rumbling this year about away rotations being exceedingly hard to come by, there are less spots and more people trying to do multiple aways this year. This explains why many of us are having a really hard time finding away rotations in July/August/September.

Many of us are only able to find a spot in one or two of those months, meaning a lot of us are only able to do a third EM rotation in October. I'm just not sure what the point of doing an October away is unless you are doing it to secure an interview at that institution. More than likely, the SLOE will be uploaded in late November-early December, after most of the interview invites have been sent out. But then again, I've seen on here many times that doing a home + 2 aways is the best tactic. I've been told by multiple people in EM leadership that only one away rotation is necessary, especially since people know that aways are so hard to come by this year. Any thoughts?
 
doggydog said:
So there is a lot of rumbling this year about away rotations being exceedingly hard to come by, there are less spots and more people trying to do multiple aways this year. This explains why many of us are having a really hard time finding away rotations in July/August/September.

Many of us are only able to find a spot in one or two of those months, meaning a lot of us are only able to do a third EM rotation in October. I'm just not sure what the point of doing an October away is unless you are doing it to secure an interview at that institution. More than likely, the SLOE will be uploaded in late November-early December, after most of the interview invites have been sent out. But then again, I've seen on here many times that doing a home + 2 aways is the best tactic. I've been told by multiple people in EM leadership that only one away rotation is necessary, especially since people know that aways are so hard to come by this year. Any thoughts?
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I think as long as you have 2 SLOEs youre fine. This whole application arms race is getting kind of ridiculous considering you only have 3-4 months to get step 2 and 2-3 sub-i's done. There seems to be a substantial amount of institutional variation in how many aways US MDs are doing; most of my friends who just matched only did 1 away.

I currently plan on submitting my app with a 3rd yr SLOE from my home institution and 1 away SLOE. I have a 2nd away lined up but the SLOE wont be in until late. Does only having a 3rd yr SLOE and 1 4th yr SLOE sound like a bad idea?
 
mega_colon said:
I think as long as you have 2 SLOEs youre fine. This whole application arms race is getting kind of ridiculous considering you only have 3-4 months to get step 2 and 2-3 sub-i's done. There seems to be a substantial amount of institutional variation in how many aways US MDs are doing; most of my friends who just matched only did 1 away.

I currently plan on submitting my app with a 3rd yr SLOE from my home institution and 1 away SLOE. I have a 2nd away lined up but the SLOE wont be in until late. Does only having a 3rd yr SLOE and 1 4th yr SLOE sound like a bad idea?
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I don't think so. Especially if you go to a US MD school and have one other LOR (from another doctor that your worked with). I am getting two SLOEs and one letter from a non-EM physician who knows me really well and worked with me for a while. I think that will (hopefully) be as valuable as a SLOE.
 
doggydog said:
So there is a lot of rumbling this year about away rotations being exceedingly hard to come by, there are less spots and more people trying to do multiple aways this year. This explains why many of us are having a really hard time finding away rotations in July/August/September.

Many of us are only able to find a spot in one or two of those months, meaning a lot of us are only able to do a third EM rotation in October. I'm just not sure what the point of doing an October away is unless you are doing it to secure an interview at that institution. More than likely, the SLOE will be uploaded in late November-early December, after most of the interview invites have been sent out. But then again, I've seen on here many times that doing a home + 2 aways is the best tactic. I've been told by multiple people in EM leadership that only one away rotation is necessary, especially since people know that aways are so hard to come by this year. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
It's been brutal at my school to find aways in August. I ended up changing my plans and getting a July away. So now I'm July, Sept, and Oct.

I think a home SLOE and 3 aways is 100% overkill, but here I am. My school isn't exactly a powerhouse so I'll be fighting that to an extent and I'm also trying to get out of this region.
 
KinesiologyNerd said:
It's been brutal at my school to find aways in August. I ended up changing my plans and getting a July away. So now I'm July, Sept, and Oct.

I think a home SLOE and 3 aways is 100% overkill, but here I am. My school isn't exactly a powerhouse so I'll be fighting that to an extent and I'm also trying to get out of this region.
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are you an MD or DO student? I am trying to set up a Sept Away as well. Currently only have July and August, getting the third letter to be complete for when ERAS opens up.
 
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Home + June, July, and September here... wasnt able to get one as a true EM rotation, rather an EM subspecialty (hopefully get a glimpse of the culture and unlocks the region for apps just the same).

What month do we need 3 letters by???
 
IH8ColdWeath3r said:
are you an MD or DO student? I am trying to set up a Sept Away as well. Currently only have July and August, getting the third letter to be complete for when ERAS opens up.
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MD

Frazier said:
What month do we need 3 letters by???
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Mid-late September if you want them to see your app on the first pass.
 
When is everyone taking step 2?

I'm taking in June and it has been rather challenging to study for that, prepare for auditions, and study for a mandatory practice board exam and OMM COMAT that is required by our school.
 
IH8ColdWeath3r said:
When is everyone taking step 2?

I'm taking in June and it has been rather challenging to study for that, prepare for auditions, and study for a mandatory practice board exam and OMM COMAT that is required by our school.
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Seems like most people at my school are june/july.

For me: October. Simply wouldn't fit sooner with my schedule + proper prep.
 
Frazier said:
Seems like most people at my school are june/july.

For me: October. Simply wouldn't fit sooner with my schedule + proper prep.
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so you're going to try to study for it while on auditions?
 
Fox800 said:
I believe the soft deadline to have your letters in last year was October 1st.
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I think the problem is that the SLOEs for the September rotations are unlikely to be there before/on Oct. 1st. So in order to be complete we need a random letter to get to the three needed to be complete. Then the letter from the September rotation comes in and fills the fourth spot leaving no room for a letter from an October away.
 
IH8ColdWeath3r said:
so you're going to try to study for it while on auditions?
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That'd be rough...auditions will be just EM shifts, dates, lifting, and golf (chose aways without exams heh)...

I have October as a dedicated study month for CK/CS and then I'll take them at the end of October. Took a cold diagnostic in April... if I can bump my score by 20 pts by test day I'll be happy.

I would have been happy to do it in August but my school wouldn't let me change my schedule.
 
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doggydog said:
You're saying that it's not beneficial to be complete in ERAS when it opens?
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I did not mean to say that at all. What I intended to say was that most people don't have all their letters in by the time they submit their ERAS, yet programs will still look at your app and invite you for interviews. The three letter requirement is for ranking purposes, not so much for interview consideration.
 
Cinematographer said:
I did not mean to say that at all. What I intended to say was that most people don't have all their letters in by the time they submit their ERAS, yet programs will still look at your app and invite you for interviews. The three letter requirement is for ranking purposes, not so much for interview consideration.
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Good to know. Much appreciated.
 
Frazier said:
That list is an awesome resource thanks for posting. That said, assuming it loaded correctly for me, pretty slim pickings!
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Keep in mind that not all programs are participating in this CDEM project. Not to mention that there are non-vsas programs that probably have spots still available as well.
 
Frazier said:
That list is an awesome resource thanks for posting. That said, assuming it loaded correctly for me, pretty slim pickings!
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It seemed to be almost impossible to get an August spot this year. It seems that PDs are aware of this though.
 
alpinism said:
Damn I wish we had this when we were applying.
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Double edged sword. Making it easier for applicants to apply for aways means that it's easier for students to shotgun applications to multiple programs. Many places are getting so much traffic from prospective students that they are added garbage to the applications to discourse all but the most serious applicants from applying (write a letter of intent, give us a LOR, etc.).
 
CliveStaples said:
Double edged sword. Making it easier for applicants to apply for aways means that it's easier for students to shotgun applications to multiple programs. Many places are getting so much traffic from prospective students that they are added garbage to the applications to discourse all but the most serious applicants from applying (write a letter of intent, give us a LOR, etc.).
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Letter of intent is easy though. Shouldn't take you more than 10 minutes to write one. On the other hand, getting someone to write a LOR can be a PITA.
 
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