**2017-2018 URM Medical School Application Thread**

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I hadn’t heard about an SMP at Meharry.
Do you have a link?
Their servers seems to be down right now but I saw on the website that they had a one year masters of public health with a med school offer after completion based on GPA and mcat score. If you search "meharry masters" on sdn info about it pops up in other threads.
 
Would you be able to take the course before matriculating? Some schools begin in July. I did read a book about Dr. James Doty, who got accepted to Tulane, but didnt have the credits to graduate with a degree, so Tulane worked out a deal with his school where some med school courses counted toward his bachelors... Not sure if things work like that anymore though. You should consider reading his book. I think you will resonate with some things he mentions.

See, that’s what scaring me. I could start the course in May and finish in July- I’m just afraid, by some crazy miracle, I’ll get in and not be able to go for this reason.
 
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Holy s*** guys I just got accepted to Northwestern. It’s crazy that through all the ups and downs (tons of downs) that I made it out the other end. I had no idea what to except this cycle and I can’t believe everything this working out. Im sure I’ve talked to some of you on the interview trail and I always have the best conversations with URM’s. Love y’all
 
You are probably being filtered out due to your stats. Most schools have cutoffs of 3.5 GPA and 510 MCAT.
Hmmm...... I have no clue where you are getting your cutoffs from, but I know from personal experience that those are NOT the cutoffs for most schools. If they were, I would not have received 13 Interview invitations and 5 acceptances already (and I'm waiting to hear back from the other 8 schools that I interviewed at). If you take a good look at the MSAR, it lists the average MCAT and GPAs for accepted students, as well as the top/bottom 10% MCAT & GPA for accepted students. Many schools do not even have an average MCAT as high as 510.

Anyway, good luck everyone! The interview season is not over yet.
 
510 cutoff? LMAOOOO. Misinformation city, do you really think schools only consider 18% of the people that took the MCAT?

@ LMAOOOO , There is definitely a cutoff filter for each school, depending on how competitive the institution is. Obv each level DO, MD, Caribb will be different... I'm just reiterating what adcoms have been saying around SDN. It's just a matter of researching which institution. No need for the defensiveness.
 
@ LMAOOOO , There is definitely a cutoff filter for each school, depending on how competitive the institution is. Obv each level DO, MD, Caribb will be different... I'm just reiterating what adcoms have been saying around SDN. It's just a matter of researching which institution. No need for the defensiveness.

Yeah but you said most school have a 510 cutoff, which just isn’t true.
 
Has anyone here interviewed at Emory? If so, how was your experience?

I did! It was generally cool. They're not the most diverse school but not the least diverse. Friendly and pleasant people start to finish. Sorta big on class attendance but people still get around that. PM me if you have a specific question
 
So I'm quoting Goro's stats:

513+ : MD schools

510+ : your state MD school and any DO school

505+: any DO school

500+: the newest DO schools

It's on his "reinvention" link- definitely worth checking out.

Lol that’s if you have an very low gpa and are doing a post-bacc or SMP. You didn’t make it clear you were talking reinvention. Those cutoffs don’t apply otherwise.
 
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Lol that’s if you have an very low gpa and are doing a post-bacc or SMP. You didn’t make it clear you were talking reinvention. Those cutoffs don’t apply otherwise.
I'm doing reinvention with a sub 510 MCAT and have gotten nibbles from schools so I also don't think those numbers apply to URM. A friend of mine got into an OOS MD program with a similar MCAT to mine (also doing reinvention). If I weren't international I'm nearly 100% certain I would have been accepted to an MD program already.
 
So I'm quoting Goro's stats:

513+ : MD schools

510+ : your state MD school and any DO school

505+: any DO school

500+: the newest DO schools

It's on his "reinvention" link- definitely worth checking out.

lol there are a lot of ppl on SDN with an mcat below 510 that have interviewed at MD schools.
I know personally like 8 people in MD schools with below a 510.
 
So I'm quoting Goro's stats:

513+ : MD schools

510+ : your state MD school and any DO school

505+: any DO school

500+: the newest DO schools

It's on his "reinvention" link- definitely worth checking out.

I truly don't think Goro meant this to be interpreted as screening cutoffs but instead just averages or competiveness. If you truly want to figure out "cutoffs" for schools, use MSAR.
 
I've pretty much resigned myself to the reality that I probably won't be getting into medical school this year.. has anyone else had to come to this realization?

I think I'm going to go to grad school and reapply when I'm done. I know of a few programs where having a PhD would be beneficial.

I think I'm done with this site for a while.

Thanks for the camaraderie guys!
 
I've pretty much resigned myself to the reality that I probably won't be getting into medical school this year.. has anyone else had to come to this realization?

I think I'm going to go to grad school and reapply when I'm done. I know of a few programs where having a PhD would be beneficial.

I think I'm done with this site for a while.

Thanks for the camaraderie guys!
Best of luck to you!
 
I’ve been thinking...is the Caribbean really that bad?

I’m in the process of applying to SGU and, although I’m raw emotionally, I’m not seeing a bad side.
 
I’ve been thinking...is the Caribbean really that bad?

I’m in the process of applying to SGU and, although I’m raw emotionally, I’m not seeing a bad side.

Yes, it really is that bad. Do NOT do Caribbean. The stats have been shown over and over again, you will not match into residency and if you do it won't be in a good place. If you struggled at all in undergrad then you will not survive Caribbean. I understand the desire to be a doctor is so great, but this isn't the path to get there. I know it sucks to not have this cycle turn out the way you hoped, but you need to look back at your application try to pinpoint your weaknesses and fix them before your next cycle.
 
Yes, it really is that bad. Do NOT do Caribbean. The stats have been shown over and over again, you will not match into residency and if you do it won't be in a good place. If you struggled at all in undergrad then you will not survive Caribbean. I understand the desire to be a doctor is so great, but this isn't the path to get there. I know it sucks to not have this cycle turn out the way you hoped, but you need to look back at your application try to pinpoint your weaknesses and fix them before your next cycle.

It’s no so much that I struggled but rather my life, which was above average in turmoil, caused me to have less focus.

I understand bettering one’s application but I already feel old and I don’t have money/resources to improve my app.
I’m just so frustrated and it seems like everything that I could do is not what I’d like to do.
Sigh, such is life.
 
It’s no so much that I struggled but rather my life, which was above average in turmoil, caused me to have less focus.

I understand bettering one’s application but I already feel old and I don’t have money/resources to improve my app.
I’m just so frustrated and it seems like everything that I could do is not what I’d like to do.
Sigh, such is life.
I too have almost turned to the caribbean on multiple occasions, but trust me, it's better to take a year improving your app than to be unable to match after and saddled with 200k debt.
 
I too have almost turned to the caribbean on multiple occasions, but trust me, it's better to take a year improving your app than to be unable to match after and saddled with 200k debt.

I understand that improvement is key but I’m super broke. I make barely above minimum wage and all I can afford to do is retake the MCAT.

I seriously doubt, even if I got a high MCAT, that any schools would take me.

I just feel like I’m in a futile fight. Furthermore, people keep telling me a graduate degree won’t help... I could do an entire doctorate and it still wouldn’t help.

Everything in my life just seems so unjust right now.
 
I too have almost turned to the caribbean on multiple occasions, but trust me, it's better to take a year improving your app than to be unable to match after and saddled with 200k debt.

I think SGU is my only option and I’m so inclined to take it.

Could I still match neurology from the Caribbean? I’m willing to bust my behind in the Caribbean if I still had a chance to match back home .
 
I think SGU is my only option and I’m so inclined to take it.

Could I still match neurology from the Caribbean? I’m willing to bust my behind in the Caribbean if I still had a chance to match back home .

I can’t imagine many IMG’s are able to match. Maybe some stats will help you rethink it @gonnif do you have any stats on neurology matches for SGU or IMG’s for that matter?
 
I’ve been thinking...is the Caribbean really that bad?

I’m in the process of applying to SGU and, although I’m raw emotionally, I’m not seeing a bad side.
*sigh*, one last chance to prevent you from making a bigass mistake with your career.

FROM the wise GYNGYN:

"The pool of US applicants from the Caribbean is viewed differently by Program Directors. The DDx for a Caribbean grad is pretty off-putting: bad judgment, bad advice, egotism, gullibility, overbearing parents, inability to delay gratification, IA's, legal problems, weak research skills, high risk behavior. This is not to say that all of them still have the quality that drew them into this situation. There is just no way to know which ones they are. Some PD's are in a position where they need to, or can afford to take risks too! So, some do get interviews.

Bad grades and scores are the least of the deficits from a PD's standpoint. A strong academic showing in a Caribbean medical school does not erase this stigma. It fact it increases the perception that the reason for the choice was on the above-mentioned list!

Just about everyone from a Caribbean school has one or more of these problems and PDs know it. That's why their grads are the last choice even with a high Step 1 score."

There was a time when folks whose only flaw was being a late bloomer went Carib, but those days are gone. There are a number of US med schools that will reward reinvention.

It's likely you'll be in the bottom half or two thirds of the class that gets dismissed before Step 1. The business plan of a Carib school depends on the majority of the class not needing to be supported in clinical rotations. They literally can't place all 250+ of the starting class at clinical sites (educational malpractice, really. If this happened at a US school, they be shut down by LCME or COCA, and sued.

The Carib (and other offshore) schools have very tenuous, very expensive, very controversial relationships with a very small number of US clinical sites. You may think you can just ask to do your clinical rotations at a site near home. Nope. You may think you don't have to worry about this stuff. Wrong.

And let's say you get through med school in the Carib and get what you need out of the various clinical rotation scenarios. Then you are in the match gamble. I don't need to say a word about this - you can find everything you need to know at nrmp.org.

You really need to talk to people who made it through Carib threshing machine (like Skip Intro or mikkus) into residency, and hear the story from them. How many people were in their class at the start, how many are in it now? How long did it take to get a residency, and how did they handle the gap year(s) and their student loans? How many residencies did they apply to, how many interviews did they get, and were any of the programs on their match list anything like what they wanted?

A little light reading:

Million $ Mistake

Medical School at SGU

"Why didn't I Match?"

tl:dr, Yes, it IS that bad. You are exactly the desperate, lazy, gullible mark that their business model is based upon.
 
*sigh*, one last chance to prevent you from making a bigass mistake with your career.

FROM the wise GYNGYN:

"The pool of US applicants from the Caribbean is viewed differently by Program Directors. The DDx for a Caribbean grad is pretty off-putting: bad judgment, bad advice, egotism, gullibility, overbearing parents, inability to delay gratification, IA's, legal problems, weak research skills, high risk behavior. This is not to say that all of them still have the quality that drew them into this situation. There is just no way to know which ones they are. Some PD's are in a position where they need to, or can afford to take risks too! So, some do get interviews.

Bad grades and scores are the least of the deficits from a PD's standpoint. A strong academic showing in a Caribbean medical school does not erase this stigma. It fact it increases the perception that the reason for the choice was on the above-mentioned list!

Just about everyone from a Caribbean school has one or more of these problems and PDs know it. That's why their grads are the last choice even with a high Step 1 score."

There was a time when folks whose only flaw was being a late bloomer went Carib, but those days are gone. There are a number of US med schools that will reward reinvention.

It's likely you'll be in the bottom half or two thirds of the class that gets dismissed before Step 1. The business plan of a Carib school depends on the majority of the class not needing to be supported in clinical rotations. They literally can't place all 250+ of the starting class at clinical sites (educational malpractice, really. If this happened at a US school, they be shut down by LCME or COCA, and sued.

The Carib (and other offshore) schools have very tenuous, very expensive, very controversial relationships with a very small number of US clinical sites. You may think you can just ask to do your clinical rotations at a site near home. Nope. You may think you don't have to worry about this stuff. Wrong.

And let's say you get through med school in the Carib and get what you need out of the various clinical rotation scenarios. Then you are in the match gamble. I don't need to say a word about this - you can find everything you need to know at nrmp.org.

You really need to talk to people who made it through Carib threshing machine (like Skip Intro or mikkus) into residency, and hear the story from them. How many people were in their class at the start, how many are in it now? How long did it take to get a residency, and how did they handle the gap year(s) and their student loans? How many residencies did they apply to, how many interviews did they get, and were any of the programs on their match list anything like what they wanted?

A little light reading:

Million $ Mistake

Medical School at SGU

"Why didn't I Match?"

tl:hungover:r, Yes, it IS that bad. You are exactly the desperate, lazy, gullible mark that their business model is based upon.

With all due respect, do not speak to me in this condescending tone. I am neither desperate nor lazy and will not be spoken to in this manner. You might have young people fresh out of high school lining up to brown-nose you but I am not on of them.

I appreciate the input but I am an adult and will be treated as such.
 
With all due respect, do not speak to me in this condescending tone. I am neither desperate nor lazy and will not be spoken to in this manner. You might have young people fresh out of high school lining up to brown-nose you but I am not on of them.

I appreciate the input but I am an adult and will be treated as such.
Azolesoul, the reason I am giving you a dope slap is because you post stuff like this:


I understand that improvement is key but I’m super broke. I make barely above minimum wage and all I can afford to do is retake the MCAT.

I seriously doubt, even if I got a high MCAT, that any schools would take me.

I just feel like I’m in a futile fight. Furthermore, people keep telling me a graduate degree won’t help... I could do an entire doctorate and it still wouldn’t help.

Everything in my life just seems so unjust right now.

I think SGU is my only option and I’m so inclined to take it.


Could I still match neurology from the Caribbean? I’m willing to bust my behind in the Caribbean if I still had a chance to match back home .
 
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I understand the aversion to the Caribbean but I really don't see how to improve my app given my limited financial power. I've already graduated and all I could do is retake the MCAT (i.e. cannot afford post-bacc). It seems like I'll be accepted to a PhD in basic science but the consensus is that even if I completed this program and did well on an MCAT retake, I'd still be a terrible applicant.

At a certain point, it seems like because I wasn't perfect between 18-twenty something years of age, I should give up on medicine. I can understand improving an application but at a certain point things have to make logical sense. I'm already in my mid twenties and it seems like all routes to medicine that I should take cannot be taken.
 
Azolesoul, the reason I am giving you a dope slap is because you post stuff like this:


I understand that improvement is key but I’m super broke. I make barely above minimum wage and all I can afford to do is retake the MCAT.

I seriously doubt, even if I got a high MCAT, that any schools would take me.

I just feel like I’m in a futile fight. Furthermore, people keep telling me a graduate degree won’t help... I could do an entire doctorate and it still wouldn’t help.

Everything in my life just seems so unjust right now.

I think SGU is my only option and I’m so inclined to take it.


Could I still match neurology from the Caribbean? I’m willing to bust my behind in the Caribbean if I still had a chance to match back home .

Nothing better than a beatch slap when it is needed

Mercy buckets!
FF35537D-0352-440A-A344-7BF0C03767C2.jpeg
 
With all due respect, do not speak to me in this condescending tone. I am neither desperate nor lazy and will not be spoken to in this manner. You might have young people fresh out of high school lining up to brown-nose you but I am not on of them.

I appreciate the input but I am an adult and will be treated as such.

Hey man, I don't want you to feel like people are ganging up on you. This is the place for URMs to come together and be there for each other. Sometimes we all need a strong dose of reality and the reality is Caribbean just isn't a good idea, I tagged gonnif because he has the facts. It sucks it seems like you might be out of option for this cycle, but you can work on your application and retake the MCAT and if you do well I really think you'll get some bites next cycle.
 
I'm already in my mid twenties and it seems like all routes to medicine that I should take cannot be taken.

Nope. You are incorrect.

You are super young. If anything you have plenty of time to strengthen your application. Going to the Carib at your age....huge mistake. Goro is just helping and trying to guide you. Listen to her...she has a lot of wisdom on these matters
 
Azolesoul, the reason I am giving you a dope slap is because you post stuff like this:


I understand that improvement is key but I’m super broke. I make barely above minimum wage and all I can afford to do is retake the MCAT.

I seriously doubt, even if I got a high MCAT, that any schools would take me.

I just feel like I’m in a futile fight. Furthermore, people keep telling me a graduate degree won’t help... I could do an entire doctorate and it still wouldn’t help.

Everything in my life just seems so unjust right now.

I think SGU is my only option and I’m so inclined to take it.


Could I still match neurology from the Caribbean? I’m willing to bust my behind in the Caribbean if I still had a chance to match back home .

Yeah, so? Not everyone comes from money and can afford to take more undergrad courses after finishing a Bachelors degree. If I had a wealthy benefactor then sure I could do what is necessary to improve my application and would happily do so. If you were dead broke and a graduate program offered you tuition waiver and a decent stipend, what would you do?
 
Hey man, I don't want you to feel like people are ganging up on you. This is the place for URMs to come together and be there for each other. Sometimes we all need a strong dose of reality and the reality is Caribbean just isn't a good idea, I tagged gonnif because he has the facts. It sucks it seems like you might be out of option for this cycle, but you can work on your application and retake the MCAT and if you do well I really think you'll get some bites next cycle.

Thanks man

I just don't know what "work on my app" means. Short of an MCAT retake, I don't know what to actually do.
 
Thanks man

I just don't know what "work on my app" means. Short of an MCAT retake, I don't know what to actually do.

I don’t know if this has been said but do you qualify for the fee assistance program through AAMC? I would also follow MelaninMentor on twitter. She posted a link to a scholarship for the MCAT a few weeks ago. If medicine is your passion then you shouldn’t settle. I understand that finances are a huge issue but also, how were you going to afford to attend interviews if you had received them? I’m sure you would’ve found a way to pay for the expenses related to that. It’s easy to feel defeated but I’ve heard stories of medical students being much older than you who have applied numerous times and finally got that acceptance letter. There are several ways to improve your app including retaking the MCAT, increasing your volunteer hours, having someone look over your personal statements to see if there were any flaws, etc. If you feel like going to a graduate program and then applying to any MD and/or DO schools is best, then I say do it! But do not rush into something that won’t produce the best outcome for you.
 
Thanks man

I just don't know what "work on my app" means. Short of an MCAT retake, I don't know what to actually do.

I mean make sure you personal statement is perfect and make sure your activities section is the best it can be. I thought mine was great but after submiting it, I've gone back and read all my entries and have found plenty of mistakes I'm sure other eyes would've caught.
 
Yeah, so? Not everyone comes from money and can afford to take more undergrad courses after finishing a Bachelors degree. If I had a wealthy benefactor then sure I could do what is necessary to improve my application and would happily do so. If you were dead broke and a graduate program offered you tuition waiver and a decent stipend, what would you do?
Take a deep breath.
You don't need another UG degree.

Go look up my post on reinvention.

If needed, work for a few years and save up the money. Med schools aren't going anywhere.
 
Take a deep breath.
You don't need another UG degree.

Go look up my post on reinvention.

If needed, work for a few years and save up the money. Med schools aren't going anywhere.

You truly don’t understand how broke I am. I make 9 dollars an hour- there is no “saving up”; I barely get by as it is. I cannot afford post-bacc courses. Not to be mean, but a lot of you guys are out of touch with the average Joe.

I’m going to take the MCAT after working for a high score and work on the rest of my app while in grad school. Is this a prudent course of action?
 
If you were dead broke and a graduate program offered you tuition waiver and a decent stipend, what would you do?

I would pursue medical school 1, 5, 10, 20, 25 years later when the time was right...Which is exactly what I did and somewhere between 5 - 30 years later. Yup. Im no spring chicken but here I am... MD School in America, flat broke and my husband working his cute little ass off just for us.

My parents were not even graduates of an elementary school and we are immigrants. English is my 2nd language and I have done enough sheet jobs to know what poverty is.

So there ya go. Do it better than me. You can and you should
But this violin playing has got to stop because you arent going to medical school playing that tired URM tune.

Ask Goro what to do. She is well known for helping EVERYONE....for free. Now that is a great deal. But dont get on her ignored list!

cheers!
 
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I would pursue medical school 1, 5, 10, 20, 25 years later when the time was right...Which is exactly what I did and somewhere between 5 - 30 years later. Yup. Im no spring chicken but here I am... MD School in America, flat broke and my husband working his cute little ass off just for us.

My parents were not even graduates of an elementary school and we are immigrants. English is my 2nd language and I have done enough sheet jobs to know what poverty is.

So there ya go. Do it better than me. You can and you should
But this violin playing has got to stop because you arent going to medical school playing that tired URD tune.

Ask Goro what to do. She is well known for helping EVERYONE....for free. Now that is a great deal. But dont get on her ignored list!

cheers!

Not trying to play a sad tune but rather I am trying to be realistic and make rational decisions.
 
Thanks man

I just don't know what "work on my app" means. Short of an MCAT retake, I don't know what to actually do.
OK, I'm just a stranger on the Internet, but I'm going to throw in my two cents.

Right now, I think you are grieving this application cycle. That's fine; take the time to grieve but don't make any major decisions while everything feels emotionally raw. Take a week to give yourself a break from thinking about medical school. Don't check SDN. Maybe find a nice show to binge watch on Netflix after work, something relaxing. I recommend Great British Bake Off.

After that week is over, sit down and ask yourself: What do I want? What do I need? I think there's several possible answers to those questions, including:

A. Financial security ASAP

Maybe you decide that the most important thing for you right now is financial security, and the rest you'll figure out later. That might mean starting a job search for something that pays better than your current job. Are there qualifications or contacts you need to land that better job? Go out and get them. Maybe it means finding a second job to provide additional income, even if that's working as an attendant in a parking garage or something.

B. To become a researcher/to get a job that requires a PhD

Great, go get that PhD! You've already got an acceptance to a graduate program, so do that! Note that I don't think you should get a PhD so that you can eventually go to medical school. That's a lot of effort to make on a gamble. PhDs take a long time (how long do people take to graduate from the program you're looking at?) and a lot of effort. Remember that the time you spend getting your PhD is time you won't be working and making money. In that way, the PhD costs you potential wages as well. I think the PhD is only worth it if you want to get it for its own sake. I'm not sure if I'm making sense here...In other words, only get the PhD if you really love research and want to become better at it, or if you want some kind of job that requires a PhD or some other compelling reason to pursue the PhD that isn't "it might make my med school app better".

C. Get into medical school and become a doctor

Great! Let's figure out how to make that happen. You seem to feel you would need a post-bacc and MCAT retake. OK, so what do you need to make that happen? Cold hard ca$h. So maybe that takes you back to choice A, but with a twist. Maybe you have to take a year or two to just save money without doing any application repair. Find a better job and/or a second job, and just put some money in a saving's account THEN take classes to improve your GPA and retake your MCAT.

I know time is a big factor for you. You're afraid that you'll be too old to apply to medical school if you take the time to repair your app. Fair enough, let's take that to be true. Getting a PhD would also take time, potentially 7 years. If you got a PhD to improve your app (as I believe you're considering) and then applied to medical school, that might actually be a much longer road than just taking some time to save money for a post-bacc. And don't forget the PhD costs I mentioned in choice B; time spent getting your PhD is time you could have used working to make money. Not to mention, I don't actually agree you would be too old to apply to medical school if you took more time to prepare your application.

You're also considering applying to the Caribbean. In my opinion, if you can't afford a post-bacc then you can't afford the Caribbean. Going to the Caribbean is an expensive gamble. Sure, there's some probability you could succeed and become a doctor. Let's say it's an 80% chance (which is probably generous; see gonnif's data). Then that means you have a 1 in 5 chance of being six figures in the hole with no safety net, no residency, and no way to pay that money back. That risk seems unacceptable to me. If money is a huge factor, imho the Caribbean is out as an option.

So, if you decide you want to go to medical school, the way I see it either you:

(1) find a way to fund a post-bacc/SMP
or
(2) decide you can't afford to apply to medical school right now, even though you really want to. If this ends up being true, then I'm really sorry. You might have to mourn a dream that you just can't make happen right now. I really really hope you find a satisfying path forward, that leaves you feeling content with the decision you made.

Aaaaaand I wrote a novel. I hope at least some of that was helpful! I'm wishing you the best as you continue your journey, wherever it may lead.
 
OK, I'm just a stranger on the Internet, but I'm going to throw in my two cents.

Right now, I think you are grieving this application cycle. That's fine; take the time to grieve but don't make any major decisions while everything feels emotionally raw. Take a week to give yourself a break from thinking about medical school. Don't check SDN. Maybe find a nice show to binge watch on Netflix after work, something relaxing. I recommend Great British Bake Off.

After that week is over, sit down and ask yourself: What do I want? What do I need? I think there's several possible answers to those questions, including:

A. Financial security ASAP

Maybe you decide that the most important thing for you right now is financial security, and the rest you'll figure out later. That might mean starting a job search for something that pays better than your current job. Are there qualifications or contacts you need to land that better job? Go out and get them. Maybe it means finding a second job to provide additional income, even if that's working as an attendant in a parking garage or something.

B. To become a researcher/to get a job that requires a PhD

Great, go get that PhD! You've already got an acceptance to a graduate program, so do that! Note that I don't think you should get a PhD so that you can eventually go to medical school. That's a lot of effort to make on a gamble. PhDs take a long time (how long do people take to graduate from the program you're looking at?) and a lot of effort. Remember that the time you spend getting your PhD is time you won't be working and making money. In that way, the PhD costs you potential wages as well. I think the PhD is only worth it if you want to get it for its own sake. I'm not sure if I'm making sense here...In other words, only get the PhD if you really love research and want to become better at it, or if you want some kind of job that requires a PhD or some other compelling reason to pursue the PhD that isn't "it might make my med school app better".

C. Get into medical school and become a doctor

Great! Let's figure out how to make that happen. You seem to feel you would need a post-bacc and MCAT retake. OK, so what do you need to make that happen? Cold hard ca$h. So maybe that takes you back to choice A, but with a twist. Maybe you have to take a year or two to just save money without doing any application repair. Find a better job and/or a second job, and just put some money in a saving's account THEN take classes to improve your GPA and retake your MCAT.

I know time is a big factor for you. You're afraid that you'll be too old to apply to medical school if you take the time to repair your app. Fair enough, let's take that to be true. Getting a PhD would also take time, potentially 7 years. If you got a PhD to improve your app (as I believe you're considering) and then applied to medical school, that might actually be a much longer road than just taking some time to save money for a post-bacc. And don't forget the PhD costs I mentioned in choice B; time spent getting your PhD is time you could have used working to make money. Not to mention, I don't actually agree you would be too old to apply to medical school if you took more time to prepare your application.

You're also considering applying to the Caribbean. In my opinion, if you can't afford a post-bacc then you can't afford the Caribbean. Going to the Caribbean is an expensive gamble. Sure, there's some probability you could succeed and become a doctor. Let's say it's an 80% chance (which is probably generous; see gonnif's data). Then that means you have a 1 in 5 chance of being six figures in the hole with no safety net, no residency, and no way to pay that money back. That risk seems unacceptable to me. If money is a huge factor, imho the Caribbean is out as an option.

So, if you decide you want to go to medical school, the way I see it either you:

(1) find a way to fund a post-bacc/SMP
or
(2) decide you can't afford to apply to medical school right now, even though you really want to. If this ends up being true, then I'm really sorry. You might have to mourn a dream that you just can't make happen right now. I really really hope you find a satisfying path forward, that leaves you feeling content with the decision you made.

Aaaaaand I wrote a novel. I hope at least some of that was helpful! I'm wishing you the best as you continue your journey, wherever it may lead.
This.
 
OK, I'm just a stranger on the Internet, but I'm going to throw in my two cents.

Right now, I think you are grieving this application cycle. That's fine; take the time to grieve but don't make any major decisions while everything feels emotionally raw. Take a week to give yourself a break from thinking about medical school. Don't check SDN. Maybe find a nice show to binge watch on Netflix after work, something relaxing. I recommend Great British Bake Off.

After that week is over, sit down and ask yourself: What do I want? What do I need? I think there's several possible answers to those questions, including:

A. Financial security ASAP

Maybe you decide that the most important thing for you right now is financial security, and the rest you'll figure out later. That might mean starting a job search for something that pays better than your current job. Are there qualifications or contacts you need to land that better job? Go out and get them. Maybe it means finding a second job to provide additional income, even if that's working as an attendant in a parking garage or something.

B. To become a researcher/to get a job that requires a PhD

Great, go get that PhD! You've already got an acceptance to a graduate program, so do that! Note that I don't think you should get a PhD so that you can eventually go to medical school. That's a lot of effort to make on a gamble. PhDs take a long time (how long do people take to graduate from the program you're looking at?) and a lot of effort. Remember that the time you spend getting your PhD is time you won't be working and making money. In that way, the PhD costs you potential wages as well. I think the PhD is only worth it if you want to get it for its own sake. I'm not sure if I'm making sense here...In other words, only get the PhD if you really love research and want to become better at it, or if you want some kind of job that requires a PhD or some other compelling reason to pursue the PhD that isn't "it might make my med school app better".

C. Get into medical school and become a doctor

Great! Let's figure out how to make that happen. You seem to feel you would need a post-bacc and MCAT retake. OK, so what do you need to make that happen? Cold hard ca$h. So maybe that takes you back to choice A, but with a twist. Maybe you have to take a year or two to just save money without doing any application repair. Find a better job and/or a second job, and just put some money in a saving's account THEN take classes to improve your GPA and retake your MCAT.

I know time is a big factor for you. You're afraid that you'll be too old to apply to medical school if you take the time to repair your app. Fair enough, let's take that to be true. Getting a PhD would also take time, potentially 7 years. If you got a PhD to improve your app (as I believe you're considering) and then applied to medical school, that might actually be a much longer road than just taking some time to save money for a post-bacc. And don't forget the PhD costs I mentioned in choice B; time spent getting your PhD is time you could have used working to make money. Not to mention, I don't actually agree you would be too old to apply to medical school if you took more time to prepare your application.

You're also considering applying to the Caribbean. In my opinion, if you can't afford a post-bacc then you can't afford the Caribbean. Going to the Caribbean is an expensive gamble. Sure, there's some probability you could succeed and become a doctor. Let's say it's an 80% chance (which is probably generous; see gonnif's data). Then that means you have a 1 in 5 chance of being six figures in the hole with no safety net, no residency, and no way to pay that money back. That risk seems unacceptable to me. If money is a huge factor, imho the Caribbean is out as an option.

So, if you decide you want to go to medical school, the way I see it either you:

(1) find a way to fund a post-bacc/SMP
or
(2) decide you can't afford to apply to medical school right now, even though you really want to. If this ends up being true, then I'm really sorry. You might have to mourn a dream that you just can't make happen right now. I really really hope you find a satisfying path forward, that leaves you feeling content with the decision you made.

Aaaaaand I wrote a novel. I hope at least some of that was helpful! I'm wishing you the best as you continue your journey, wherever it may lead.


The PhD I’m considering takes about 4-5 years. I was considering this route because I genuinely love research and feel it could provide financial stability while I prepare to go through this whole arduous process again(med application).

I will not be paying for the Phd(tuition waiver) and there is a decent stipend.

Doesn’t Columbia have a three year PhD to MD program? If I go to grad school and excel( plausible given my research background) couldn’t I maybe expedite the process?
 
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Azolesoul, my brain explodes every time I see a new post from you. Everyone is giving the same advice but you continue to ask the same questions like you’re not really absorbing what people are saying.

Based on your post history you’re not meant to attend medical school (right now or maybe ever). You come off as emotionally unstable and unwilling to commit to anything. One day your dream is to go to medical school, the next day you want to attend a PhD program and now your next big idea is the Caribbean. You are completely all over the place. You need to find some consistency in your life. I understand you have a terrible home situation but without any sort of consistency or mental toughness, you won’t be able to successfully finish anything (such as grad school or especially medical school). Personally, I don’t think you would be successful in medical school right now. However, I hope you take the time to really think about what you want and the steps you need to take in order to get there. When things get tough and the light at the end of the tunnel seems to be getting farther away, take a deep breath and remember what the heck it is that drives you to succeed (nobody on the internet can tell YOU what that is!) Please get your **** together and prove me wrong.
 
Azolesoul, my brain explodes every time I see a new post from you. Everyone is giving the same advice but you continue to ask the same questions like you’re not really absorbing what people are saying.

Based on your post history you’re not meant to attend medical school (right now or maybe ever). You come off as emotionally unstable and unwilling to commit to anything. One day your dream is to go to medical school, the next day you want to attend a PhD program and now your next big idea is the Caribbean. You are completely all over the place. You need to find some consistency in your life. I understand you have a terrible home situation but without any sort of consistency or mental toughness, you won’t be able to successfully finish anything (such as grad school or especially medical school). Personally, I don’t think you would be successful in medical school right now. However, I hope you take the time to really think about what you want and the steps you need to take in order to get there. When things get tough and the light at the end of the tunnel seems to be getting farther away, take a deep breath and remember what the heck it is that drives you to succeed (nobody on the internet can tell YOU what that is!) Please get your **** together and prove me wrong.

A little harsh, but thanks.

I’m not unstable, I’m just trying to weigh all my options.

I’m not a weak willed or weak minded person- I’m just trying to plan and I have no sounding board.
 
Hey @azolesoul, I'm 27 with more rejections than you. I think you need to take a deep breath and really think about what you really want and how bad you want it. If it's medicine, then admit that. You're not too old (albeit, I have a lot of friends my age who are already docs and it does make me feel old sometimes), but honestly, who cares, it just means you have more experiences to draw from once you start med school. Start looking for a new job that pays more than $9, or look for a second job and save some money, or take out a personal loan (this is what I had to do to afford my post-bacc). Maybe stay off these forums for a while and do some introspection, what is it that you really want?
 
A little harsh, but thanks.

I’m not unstable, I’m just trying to weigh all my options.

I’m not a weak willed or weak minded person- I’m just trying to plan and I have no sounding board.
Just to toss in my two cents worth. I have a few friends that did caribbean and one has matched into neurology but it seems to be not the best program from what I can tell...

As for money issues, totally get it. I've been flat out broke for the past few years, saving up for applications from 3 jobs, begging money from everyone I know so I can get through my postbacc, eating ramen and potatoes and sleeping on couches. It has been an absolute nightmare and at this moment I don't know if I would do it again... That being said, I know that if it ever does pay off, my tune will change and it will become all worth it from my perspective. So you really need to ask yourself if that's something you could do, if not perhaps medicine isn't for you. Nothing about this path is easy and in the long run you'd likely be able to find financial stability a lot quicker if you took another path. If you can see yourself doing something other than medicine, my suggestion would be for you to dive into it and give it everything that you have.
 
Just to toss in my two cents worth. I have a few friends that did caribbean and one has matched into neurology but it seems to be not the best program from what I can tell...

As for money issues, totally get it. I've been flat out broke for the past few years, saving up for applications from 3 jobs, begging money from everyone I know so I can get through my postbacc, eating ramen and potatoes and sleeping on couches. It has been an absolute nightmare and at this moment I don't know if I would do it again... That being said, I know that if it ever does pay off, my tune will change and it will become all worth it from my perspective. So you really need to ask yourself if that's something you could do, if not perhaps medicine isn't for you. Nothing about this path is easy and in the long run you'd likely be able to find financial stability a lot quicker if you took another path. If you can see yourself doing something other than medicine, my suggestion would be for you to dive into it and give it everything that you have.


Gonna do the doctorate, improve my app and apply again. If after earning a doctorate, doing research, improving my MCAT and volunteering I’m still unsuccessful, I’ll know that medical school admissions is truly ludicrous.

I understand your drive and passion but I simply cannot put my life on hold for “chances”. I have to work our rational, concrete plans.