2017 Nontrad Applicants' Progress Thread

[bornunderatree]

As future doctors I hope we can all agree "my friend" n=1 isn't good to go off of. The simple fact if you compare matriculation %'s of older students it goes down. This is pretty clear evidence that age matters. Not many older students are applying without a compelling reason, yet they are being accepted at a lower rate.


Edit: loaded the wrong table - I'll find the % of matriculants in each age group one and you can compare against the % of applicants in each age group to get an idea of acceptance rates

Holy shmoly! I'm close to the 95th percentile as a 28 year old going to med school in the fall?!

First the balding and now this? I'm old.

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[tluedeke]

hey, don't get down!
I'm so impressed you got those 2 MD! and as a fellow engineer changing course, I feel like I can appreciate your situation a little more than others

I think the biggest weakness for you (and same for me) is the MCAT. Realistically, they want us to blow it out of the water if we are coming back from average UG grades, so we have to just keep plugging along. Re-test if you can, and just remember to relax and enjoy the process.

I know it seems unrealistic to enjoy the MCAT, but hear me out. I spent a lot of time beating myself up over a cycle with very minimal traction, but then I spoke to a few high-placed people and they gave me the feedback that my app is "very strong and they just want to see the MCAT as a way of hitting home that I can handle something like boards".

As much as that sucks, it's a huge weight off my shoulders knowing that everything else is appealing (and it seems like you're so close too - with your experience and everything). Knowing that this is all I have left, I'm going in with the confidence of knowing that WHEN I do well, I'm going to kick down doors during my interviews and leave with a bunch of offers.

I know that this mindset isn't for everyone, but you already have such great silver lining (2MD II with a low 500? Incredible!)

As the great Tim Allen once said in Galaxy Quest

NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER SURRENDER!

Your enthusiasm is admirable, and I wish I felt it. But I don't. Personally, I don't feel anything except that it is too late, I'm too old, and the dream is over.

I also have zero enthusiasm for a MCAT retake. Just what I want to do, go back and memorize utterly useless facts like steps in Freud's psychosexual stages, all to bump up my score and get a 510 or 515 MCAT. For months on end, while depleting my retirement investments at 48 yo. All in the hope I get into medical school at 50 yo. Nope, it's over.

 

[Gibbward]

Your enthusiasm is admirable, and I wish I felt it. But I don't. Personally, I don't feel anything except that it is too late, I'm too old, and the dream is over.

I also have zero enthusiasm for a MCAT retake. Just what I want to do, go back and memorize utterly useless facts like steps in Freud's psychosexual stages, all to bump up my score and get a 510 or 515 MCAT. For months on end, while depleting my retirement investments at 48 yo. All in the hope I get into medical school at 50 yo. Nope, it's over.

It seems like you went through so much to get this med school dream of yours going, and really props to you for getting this far. It sucks that this cycle didn't work out like how you were hoping especially since you were so close, getting interviews and all that jazz. I mean there's definitely still hope with that DO waitlist of yours, and you never know what could happen.

But I guess, sometimes, knowing when you're done with this journey is a great thing too. All I can say is that good luck with everything that you have your sights on next. And I think that I can speak for everyone here when I say that the non-trad forum will be here to support you on your med school dreams if you decide to jump back into the game!

 

[tluedeke]

It seems like you went through so much to get this med school dream of yours going, and really props to you for getting this far. It sucks that this cycle didn't work out like how you were hoping especially since you were so close, getting interviews and all that jazz. I mean there's definitely still hope with that DO waitlist of yours, and you never know what could happen.

But I guess, sometimes, knowing when you're done with this journey is a great thing too. All I can say is that good luck with everything that you have your sights on next. And I think that I can speak for everyone here when I say that the non-trad forum will be here to support you on your med school dreams if you decide to jump back into the game!

Maybe my mood will pick up. I know the MCAT is a low hanging fruit - I went in cold on psych/socio (and reaped the benefits with a 124), and got destroyed on the biology section with a veritable blizzard of experimental technique passages not even mentioned in TPR (and reaped the benefits with a 125). A 510-515 MCAT is very doable.

But right now I'm extremely depressed about it, because I've sacrificed everything (notably my engineering career and my personal life) and gotten nothing out of it, and I'm not particularly convinced that just upping the MCAT is a panacea. Oh, yeah. And I really do seethe when I have to waste time on Freud and his idiotic coke-addled "theories".

 

[esob]

As future doctors I hope we can all agree "my friend" n=1 isn't good to go off of. The simple fact if you compare matriculation %'s of older students it goes down. This is pretty clear evidence that age matters. Not many older students are applying without a compelling reason, yet they are being accepted at a lower rate.


Edit: loaded the wrong table - I'll find the % of matriculants in each age group one and you can compare against the % of applicants in each age group to get an idea of acceptance rates

The table makes no reference as far as I can see to numbers, so, compelling reason doesn't equal compelling numbers. My n=1 falls squarely in the larger statistic of his numbers equalling a 90% chance of acceptance while the poster's numbers equaled 20%; each produced exactly the outcome we would expect. Do I think that older non-trads face some bias? ofc, but I don't think it is something that is so blatant that posting superior numbers won't trump. Honestly, from spending the last year in the non trad forums on almost a daily basis, my impression is that there is an equal number of non-trads that lack the gear or are just dreamers as exists in the traditional premed community. Show me a non-trad that is overly qualified that failed to matriculate? I've yet to run into one. I don't see the lack of acceptance for median gpa/mcat applicants as a smoking gun for age bias.

 

[mavric1298]

I never loaded the correct tables because I'm lazy haha - we know the # of applicants in each percentile group, and we know the # of matriculants in each percentile group - divide, and you get matriculation rate by age, and it's lower for older. Just sayin


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[banana_phone]

Ahaha oh boy do I.

I emailed the person at my top choice who had notified me about the decision ...

Just got the aid package from my top choice. They offered a scholarship but much smaller than my other offer (70% smaller, but these aren't huge numbers to begin with). I'd like to try to get them to increase it, as every little bit helps, even with small scholarships.

Did you direct your initial email to Financial Aid or admissions decision person??

 

[esob]

I never loaded the correct tables because I'm lazy haha - we know the # of applicants in each percentile group, and we know the # of matriculants in each percentile group - divide, and you get matriculation rate by age, and it's lower for older. Just sayin


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Are you saying you have a table somewhere that compares say, all matriculants with 4.0 and 100th percentile MCAT's by age? Anyway, I think it was Dr. Midlife that said non-trads are more likely to come with "rough edges" (or something to that tone), otherwise they would have went straight to medicine. I'm pretty sure no one says "I'm going to be a doctor but instead I'd rather go have this illustrious career as a Harvard law graduate and argue before the supreme court before finally making my way back to medicine." Usually the story is "something got in the way" or (in the case of most lawyers, lol) "I want to make more money."

 

[SpaceLeftBlank]

pretty sure no one says "I'm going to be a doctor but instead I'd rather go have this illustrious career as a Harvard law graduate and argue before the supreme court before finally making my way back to medicine." Usually the story is "something got in the way" or (in the case of most lawyers, lol) "I want to make more money."

In my case, it was Michigan Law and I only ever argued before the Michigan Supreme Court. But it was more "well, two application cycles went nowhere and I have to do SOMETHING with my life." You younger folks who find yourself thinking something similar will want to think very carefully about what that "something else" is, and whether you really "have to" do it instead. Many objective signs showed that I had a successful career, but I didn't have much of a passion for it, and like medicine, law is too demanding to put yourself through if you don't love it. I ended up doing malpractice defense, and after several of those cases, where I found the medical stuff more compelling than the law, I started questioning why I gave up so easily. Which is why I'm back after it 20 years later.

Also, most lawyers are disappointed to learn fairly quickly that most lawyers don't make the kind of money most laypeople think we do.

Tl;dr: there are a lot of reasons people come to medicine the nontraditional route, and it's not always (or even often) that there's "something ring with" us but I think that IS often the perception.




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[esob]

In my case, it was Michigan Law and I only ever argued before the Michigan Supreme Court. But it was more "well, two application cycles went nowhere and I have to do SOMETHING with my life." You younger folks who find yourself thinking something similar will want to think very carefully about what that "something else" is, and whether you really "have to" do it instead. Many objective signs showed that I had a successful career, but I didn't have much of a passion for it, and like medicine, law is too demanding to put yourself through if you don't love it. I ended up doing malpractice defense, and after several of those cases, where I found the medical stuff more compelling than the law, I started questioning why I gave up so easily. Which is why I'm back after it 20 years later.

Also, most lawyers are disappointed to learn fairly quickly that most lawyers don't make the kind of money most laypeople think we do.

Tl;dr: there are a lot of reasons people come to medicine the nontraditional route, and it's not always (or even often) that there's "something ring with" us but I think that IS often the perception.




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So, even in your case, you didn't intentionally start out with the straightforward path of saying "I'm going to be a doctor and best path toward being a doctor is to do something else for 2 decades first" lol. Something WAS wrong (at least as far as the system was concerned) 20 years ago or you would have gotten in. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that; my only point was that most non-trads are coming from a place where the traditional route to medicine was not a good fit for them because unlike some of our traditional classmates who have the soul of a 40 year old when they are 20, we actually were 20 when we were 20 I know I was too immature at 20. The army of course changed that for me but when I got out I took the path of least resistance, which was immediate income vs years of no income, so even then I probably wasn't as mature as many of the traditional students. I was nearly 40 by the time that I could stand the thought of going to school for a decade to do something

 

[bornunderatree]

So, even in your case, you didn't intentionally start out with the straightforward path of saying "I'm going to be a doctor and best path toward being a doctor is to do something else for 2 decades first" lol. Something WAS wrong (at least as far as the system was concerned) 20 years ago or you would have gotten in. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that; my only point was that most non-trads are coming from a place where the traditional route to medicine was not a good fit for them because unlike some of our traditional classmates who have the soul of a 40 year old when they are 20, we actually were 20 when we were 20 I know I was too immature at 20. The army of course changed that for me but when I got out I took the path of least resistance, which was immediate income vs years of no income, so even then I probably wasn't as mature as many of the traditional students. I was nearly 40 by the time that I could stand the thought of going to school for a decade to do something

I disagree, in my case, the path to medicine was impossible for financial reasons at 20. Maturity, or a lack there of played no part.

 

[esob]

I disagree, in my case, the path to medicine was impossible for financial reasons at 20. Maturity, or a lack there of played no part.

Without specifics I can't comment on it but since most people borrow money to go to med school and don't work, my original statement of "something got in the way" still holds. Regardless of how heroic your scenario might have been (orphaned, went to work to take care of 19 siblings), the point is that you likely didn't have "typical" circumstances that would have allowed you to go to medical school yet made a conscious decision to forego that opportunity in lieu of something else. I find it implausible that someone with the means, numbers, personal situation, etc which allowed them to attend medical school would decline that opportunity with a clear defined plan to work at something else for years and come back as a non traditional decades later.

 

[bornunderatree]

Applying alone to medical school requires significant fiscal resources.
I was relatively frugal and still spent $6000+.
Medicine is for the elite. It's inaccessible to the truly "diverse" which I have discovered over the last year.

 

[Eccesignum]

Just got the aid package from my top choice. They offered a scholarship but much smaller than my other offer (70% smaller, but these aren't huge numbers to begin with). I'd like to try to get them to increase it, as every little bit helps, even with small scholarships.

Did you direct your initial email to Financial Aid or admissions decision person??

I got the email about the financial aid decision (which came after admission) from a specific person, so I just wrote straight back to that person. Kind of situationally dependent. If it's unclear who exactly sent you the offer (like if it's just from a general department email address) then I would email financial aid.

 

[Froggy25]

Received the call from my #1 last night, the last school I was waiting to hear from (of course they were last lol). Incredibly grateful for, and humbled by, how the whole process played out. My cycle is officially over, but I'm continuing to send out good vibes for all the non-trads still waiting to hear!

6 interview invites
5 interviews attended
4 acceptances
1 waitlist (withdrew)

1 very happy Froggy

 

[Semmelweiser]

This post has been 10 years in the making.

I was just accepted to medical school. I will be attending WMU Homer Stryker M.D. School of Medicine as part of the class of 2021. These are the only coherent statements I can reasonably produce right now.

 

[Froggy25]

I was just accepted to medical school. I will be attending WMU Homer Stryker M.D. School of Medicine as part of the class of 2021. These are the only coherent statements I can reasonably produce right now.

Congrats! That's awesome!!

 

[mavric1298]

So, so, not looking forward to starting class on Monday. I'm not sure if I shared, but I graduated/walked in commencement last June, and about a month or two ago I got an email saying there was a problem with my graduation. Turns out someone had processed and signed off on my graduation, but hadn't done the correct math of some transfer credits, so I came up short of my required advanced electives. After a nightmare of having to re-apply to my school as a returning student because I obviously haven't been taking classes, lots of very unhappy visits to registration/advising/etc, no apologies from the people that signed off and approved everything, I have to take one additional class. Luckily this happened when it did, because of the timing of our quarters, if it was any later I wouldn't have been able to complete this new class before my matriculation document deadline and would have lost my offers.

 

[KaBoom'd]

So, so, not looking forward to starting class on Monday. I'm not sure if I shared, but I graduated/walked in commencement last June, and about a month or two ago I got an email saying there was a problem with my graduation. Turns out someone had processed and signed off on my graduation, but hadn't done the correct math of some transfer credits, so I came up short of my required advanced electives. After a nightmare of having to re-apply to my school as a returning student because I obviously haven't been taking classes, lots of very unhappy visits to registration/advising/etc, no apologies from the people that signed off and approved everything, I have to take one additional class. Luckily this happened when it did, because of the timing of our quarters, if it was any later I wouldn't have been able to complete this new class before my matriculation document deadline and would have lost my offers.

This is a nightmare of mine. I'm finishing a B.S. this semester, and have no faith in the questionable administrative arm. Tomorrow will be my second trip in a month to the records office to confirm everything is on the up and up. Good luck.

 

[mavric1298]

This is a nightmare of mine. I'm finishing a B.S. this semester, and have no faith in the questionable administrative arm. Tomorrow will be my second trip in a month to the records office to confirm everything is on the up and up. Good luck.

Thanks, talk about a shock getting that email thinking I've been done for almost 8 months or so, then literally having 2 days before the "returning student application deadline". Then they wouldn't let me register for classes and there were only specific ones I needed which fill fast. I made 5 trips in 3 days over an hour from my work, took time off, etc, just to get everything worked out.

It was all because a class I took at another school was only 3 credits, but at my school normally is 5, so they did everything assuming 5 instead of the actual 3. I specifically asked about it before they signed off, and said I was good to go. F. Them. On top of rejecting me for med school the same week. It's been my dream to go there for 7 years now and WWAMI was my inspiration to return to school and do my second degree. Terrible week.


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[orangeblue]

Hi guys, how are you all doing? Non trad, as well. Late 20s. I got accepted into a D.O program(waitlist at an MD program but seems like I have low hopes of getting of that waitlist).

What are you all doing in these months?

 

[BlastedHeath]

After four years of college I had a 1.5 gpa and was academically disqualified from both my university and the local community college.

Today, six years later, I was accepted to medical school. Totally crying right now.

 

[amuseddoughnut]

After four years of college I had a 1.5 gpa and was academically disqualified from both my university and the local community college.

Today, six years later, I was accepted to medical school. Totally crying right now.

Congratulations! What a great success story!

 

[banana_phone]

so, I sent a heartfelt email to the admissions director at my top choice regarding adjusting my scholarship. Took her a week to respond, but she got back to me today and said "This is a great question, which should be discussed in person at Second Look."

She took the time to look up and see that I'm attending Second Look, and didn't say no outright...this is a good sign, yes? I feel like if it were flat out not happening, she would have said so in her email. But, who knows. Guess I'm going to be having this conversation with her and the financial aid officers next week!

@Eccesignum appreciate your wisdom!

 

[brainnurse]

How's everyone doing? It's unbelievable that the cycle is almost over. It makes me so happy to read all of the hope, joy, and all around good news in this thread. Can't believe so many of us are starting medical school in a few months!

 

[beebreezy]

.

 

[mavric1298]

I know how it feels, I went through a whole cycle with no II's, so just try to think of the positives. You are at least close, and worst case you have to apply again - I'm the type of person that always has had ridiculous things happen, things fall through, have to take the hard road. All I can say is you just have to put one foot in front of the other at times, and know you'll get through it one way or another. Piece of advice - let yourself feel miserable sometimes. Understand how hard this can be, and don't try to just suppress your feelings. They are valid. You can feel bad at times, it's okay. But don't let yourself wallow. Cry if you want to, but then gather yourself, and plan your next step forward, even if it's just waiting. Take it day by day, and you'll be okay


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[beebreezy]

.

 

[sunshinefl]

I'm having a nervous breakdown over my final pending decision being yet another waitlist (please don't give me any "Your odds are good! Just be patient, and you'll get in somewhere!" lines. The past two years have pretty much consisted of one thing I was hoping for after another falling through nonstop, and I can't handle anymore false hope). I'm hiding in my bedroom trying not to let anyone hear me sobbing uncontrollably. Very little in my life is going right. I wish my health insurance offered mental health coverage I could afford...stupid deductible.

Most schools and employers offer short-term assistance; usually you can call a number and they'll either do phone counseling with you or set you up with a person you can see. For workplaces, it's usually called Employee Assistance Program. I've taken advantage of these programs several times for quick counseling for relationships, health, and random weird things (like when private conversations I had with a boy were posted publicly online).

 

[beebreezy]

.

 

[wholeheartedly]

Hey nontrad peeps, you guys are winding down a great season.

I'm feeling a bit like I let you down yesterday as it seems nontrads went relatively unscathed in yesterdays shennanigans

 

[precisiongraphic]

Hey nontrad peeps, you guys are winding down a great season.

I'm feeling a bit like I let you down yesterday as it seems nontrads went relatively unscathed in yesterdays shennanigans

I could not touch pre-md yesterday it made me rage-y.

 

[wholeheartedly]

I could not touch pre-md yesterday it made me rage-y.

There were some pretty funny ones around SDN though.

 

[Calculator38]

Well, wanted to post here to thank everyone for their stories and advice over the course of the application season (I've made a few accounts to keep anonymity). Thought I'd record my final results here for posterity, in case its useful to anyone!

3.35 GPA, 38 MCAT
<5 years out of graduate
Peace Corps/TFA/Americorps/Military range post-graduation experiences
Non-URM
32 apps
10 IIs
5 interviews attended
4 acceptances, 1 waitlist
Matriculating at a Top10 in the fall!

Happy to answer any questions in PM if they're there, feel like I owe everyone!

 

[tetley]

Cycle over, 1 WL and a painful amount of rejections

time to hustle!

 

[Silo004]

thought I'd check in here, b/c I lurked on this board for sometime. Will graduate in May. Thanks to everyone who participates here, even the folks who lie about everything. You contribute too.

URM, 34, needed post bacc
UGPA 3.6; SGPA 3.6 MCAT 34
step 1/2 240s
top 10 MD; top 10 anesthesiology

Very grateful.

PM me if you have any questions about strategies etc.

 

[BlastedHeath]

I can't be the only one really starting to stress about moving and finding a place to live and stuff, right? I won't know if I am in at my MD school(where I'm currently doing an SMP) until June, and the DO school I'm accepted at starts mid July. I hate moving with a passion and it is so much worse not knowing or having much time to organize things. I'm hoping to go home and see my family before class starts as well, making things even more chaotic at a time when I should be allowing myself to take a break.

 

[Gibbward]

I can't be the only one really starting to stress about moving and finding a place to live and stuff, right? I won't know if I am in at my MD school(where I'm currently doing an SMP) until June, and the DO school I'm accepted at starts mid July. I hate moving with a passion and it is so much worse not knowing or having much time to organize things. I'm hoping to go home and see my family before class starts as well, making things even more chaotic at a time when I should be allowing myself to take a break.

Right now I'm not too stressed even if I'm moving from one coast to the other. My moving schedule will be pretty tight though. I'll have to fly in to NorCal, buy a car (and get all the insurance, registration and financing business done) , drive to SoCal, find an apartment and hopefully officially move in, fly somewhere in the South for July 4th festivities, fly back to the North East to finish packing/shipping stuff out, then fly to SoCal AGAIN to finally move in. Plus, I'm trying to squeeze in one last trip to Portland, Maine before moving back to the west coast at some point.

It is kind of a drag too to be on waitlists since I for sure would go to those schools over my current acceptance, but at least all the schools I'd be choosing from are in the same state. Hopefully, I'll get off one sooner rather than later so I can plan ahead better. Thank goodness for Southwest's no change fees!

 

[libahli]

Officially calling it an end to my cycle.
Final Results:

7 interviews attended (declined others after first 7)
4 acceptances - 3 outright, one from waitlist
*received merit scholarships from 2
3 waitlists
0 rejections post-interview but plenty pre-interview!

Will be matriculating to my original #1 choice with a significant merit scholarship to boot

If I can be of any assistance to other nontrads, feel free to send a PM.

Also, if you're applying this upcoming cycle and are a career-changer, I'd be happy to take a look at your personal statement and offer my quick opinion! The feedback I got last year from a fellow nontrad here was absolutely invaluable and I still remain grateful for her help so I just want to help pay it forward!

 

[ScrubsnScalpels]

Officially calling it an end to my cycle.
Final Results:

7 interviews attended (declined others after first 7)
4 acceptances - 3 outright, one from waitlist
*received merit scholarships from 2
3 waitlists
0 rejections post-interview but plenty pre-interview!

Will be matriculating to my original #1 choice with a significant merit scholarship to boot

If I can be of any assistance to other nontrads, feel free to send a PM.

Also, if you're applying this upcoming cycle and are a career-changer, I'd be happy to take a look at your personal statement and offer my quick opinion! The feedback I got last year from a fellow nontrad here was absolutely invaluable and I still remain grateful for her help so I just want to help pay it forward!

Congratulations!

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[libahli]

Congratulations!

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Thanks

This whole process has just been so, so humbling.

 

[columbiapostbac]

My experience is not good. 48 yo, 128/127/125/124, pre-med GPA = 3.76 (shaky grades when I was younger, though). 20 years of engineering experience, juggled pre-med and career, 100+ hours of Hospice, EM shadowing.

Probably 10-12 secondaries sent, three interviews (2 MD, 1 DO), no acceptances, one D.O. waitlist. I know a number of the people accepted at places I interviewed, and they were getting in with remarkably thinner GPA/MCAT/experiences, even at out-of-state MD schools.

Pretty devastated. I absolutely drove myself into the ground over the last 3+ years (continual 100 hour weeks), all for naught.

Hi, I'm just doing a trip down SDN memory lane and saw your post. I was 44 when I started the application process, so a bit younger than you, but with mostly similar characteristics. I felt that my age was definitely a factor in how hard it was for me to get into medical school. Message me if you need any advice on your next steps, or for any other support.

 

[columbiapostbac]

Hmm, how do I delete this post?

Ok, so I guess I can't remove this posting mistake, so I'll turn it into a general statement. Any older career changers who'd like guidance for the application process, or on getting through med school surrounded by classmates a decade or two younger, please feel free to contact me.

 

[amber80]

Hmm, how do I delete this post?

Ok, so I guess I can't remove this posting mistake, so I'll turn it into a general statement. Any older career changers who'd like guidance for the application process, or on getting through med school surrounded by classmates a decade or two younger, please feel free to contact me.

You can just edit the post and delete the text. It won't remove the post entirely, but it will delete the text.


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[@Hazel-rah]

Looking for helpful non trads to read my essay and give whatever feedback possible, even just your knee jerk reaction. Please PM me if any of you on this thread are willing to help

 

[wonder12]

Non-trad reapplying here. Any recommendations for schools that are particularly non-trad friendly, particularly for someone who has NO research/lab experience?

 

[@Hazel-rah]

Non-trad reapplying here. Any recommendations for schools that are particularly non-trad friendly, particularly for someone who has NO research/lab experience?

What other details could you share about your stats or EC's?

 

[wonder12]

What other details could you share about your stats or EC's?

 

[@Hazel-rah]

If you make a WAMC post in that forum, you might get good suggestions. I've heard that all schools like to matriculate a diverse group of people, so I don't think there are any non-trad-friendly schools persay.

For my school list, when I look at MSAR, I note the age ranges of students and if there are 0 listed for 30-39 I make a baseless assumption that they prefer young students...

If you have a lot of volunteer service, you may like the missions of schools like Tulane and Rush. I've seen Dartmouth on a lot of non-trad school lists, as well as Mayo, MCW, Creighton, Wake Forest, Drexel, Temple, Rosalind Franklin, and other private schools in your range.

Maybe some of these recently accepted Nontrad students will have insight as to how receptive certain institutions were to their candidacy. Good luck with your list!

 

[pupsnacks]

.