2017 Nontrad Applicants' Progress Thread

[wonder12]

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I, too, am going nuts not knowing if I'll be getting in or not, moving or not, reapplying or not. Torture. The only antidote is to keep myself busy.

 

[amber80]

I have another interview coming up at a med school that is very highly ranked overall and also ranked well above the school I was just rejected from. And I am really not feeling very confident, given that I have not even been accepted by schools I am actually competitive for. Sigh! But one never knows.


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[tetley]

I got accepted to a school that was a total reach for me and got rejected from one of my target schools! It's all about fit and apparently I fit the mission of the higher ranked school better?! Anyways just try to go into it confidently knowing that they wouldn't be wasting their time interviewing you if they weren't interested in you. You've got this. 🙂

always so happy when I see NT people change their status to (accepted)

 

[beebreezy]

This could either be a really good week or a really devastating week for me. I interviewed at a school last week that told me we ALL would receive a decision on the 16th. Then a school that I interviewed at in October should be releasing its next batch of acceptances either the 15th or 16th. Man, I knew my application had weak spots. I have no research and am a crappy interviewer. I still was pretty confident SOMEONE would give me a chance, though, considering my 3.96 GPA, URM status, and nontraditional-ness. Didn't expect to reach mid-February and be looking at high chances of getting in nowhere.

 

[Ad2b]

I received my final post-II decision today completing my application cycle... so glad this part of the process is over.

AND?! 😛

 

[Ad2b]

Congrats @HopefulPilot

 

[Gibbward]

21 primary applications submitted
4 pre-secondary rejections
2 pre-secondary withdrawals

15 secondaries completed
8 IIs
6 Interviews attended
6 Acceptances

I'm no doctorbob, but I feel extremely blessed with the outcome.

Absolutely killing it homie! That's great!

 

[Froggy25]

21 primary applications submitted
4 pre-secondary rejections
2 pre-secondary withdrawals

15 secondaries completed
8 IIs
6 Interviews attended
6 Acceptances

I'm no doctorbob, but I feel extremely blessed with the outcome.

Dude that's awesome lol. I thought my cycle was going well, but that's killer. Good to see mil guys doing well!

RTB


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[bornunderatree]

I do feel the whole application process is a little random.
A quarter of the applications I've put in are still silent. Schools that I aligned well with, rejected me. I ended up with three interviews at my "reach" schools. And I landed an acceptance at a California school (as a California resident).
Even now, I don't know what the magic sauce is. Patience? Persistence? Luck?

 

[happyducky]

I do feel the whole application process is a little random.
A quarter of the applications I've put in are still silent. Schools that I aligned well with, rejected me. I ended up with three interviews at my "reach" schools. And I landed an acceptance at a California school (as a California resident).
Even now, I don't know what the magic sauce is. Patience? Persistence? Luck?

Same here! When I applied in June, I was seriously thinking I should've done a SMP or post-bacc (just from reading the advice given on SDN), but wanted to give it a shot anyways. Got 3 MD interviews so far. With 2 of the schools, my GPA wasn't even near their 10th percentile and my MCAT was just about average. Flash forward several months, I just got my first acceptance!

I laid in bed and cried for a good 30 minutes. Happy and grateful tears. It's a good place to be.

 

[Froggy25]

Same here! When I applied in June, I was seriously thinking I should've done a SMP or post-bacc (just from reading the advice given on SDN), but wanted to give it a shot anyways. Got 3 MD interviews so far. With 2 of the schools, my GPA wasn't even near their 10th percentile and my MCAT was just about average. Flash forward several months, I just got my first acceptance!

I laid in bed and cried for a good 30 minutes. Happy and grateful tears. It's a good place to be.

And this ladies and gentlemen is why I love SDN. So awesome - congrats!!


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[beebreezy]

*sigh* With four interviews, I'm now at:

1 rejection
2 waitlists
1 silence that will probably turn into a WL, as the interview was in September

Going to send the school I really loved a letter of interest after I go eat my feelings.

 

[Fancy_Feast]

*sigh* With four interviews, I'm now at:

1 rejection
2 waitlists
1 silence that will probably turn into a WL, as the interview was in September

Going to send the school I really loved a letter of interest after I go eat my feelings.

Sorry to hear 🙁 Waitlists may still turn into acceptances, though! Good luck!

 

[Fancy_Feast]

*sigh* With four interviews, I'm now at:

1 rejection
2 waitlists
1 silence that will probably turn into a WL, as the interview was in September

Going to send the school I really loved a letter of interest after I go eat my feelings.

And if you need someone to proof read your letter, I'd be happy to help 🙂

 

[beebreezy]

And if you need someone to proof read your letter, I'd be happy to help 🙂

Aw, thank you. 🙂 I might take you up on that.

 

[tetley]

that aamc virtual fair was crazy today. So many people asking the same question one after another. scroll down like 2 lines and you'll see the mean MCAT that someone JUST asked about!

 

[Semmelweiser]

that aamc virtual fair was crazy today. So many people asking the same question one after another. scroll down like 2 lines and you'll see the mean MCAT that someone JUST asked about!

That, or asking questions that seemed far more like they were aggressively posturing for an on the spot interview than wanting/needing an answer 😵 .

"Do you think I should include in my experiences that I cured cancer while shadowing a neurosurgeon that works exclusively with disadvantaged puppies, who's nickname for me was "ol' four point, the best student <your school> will ever have"?"

"...probably?"

I get there's rarely a bad time to make an impression, but damn.

 

[tetley]

That, or asking questions that seemed far more like they were aggressively posturing for an on the spot interview than wanting/needing an answer 😵 .

"Do you think I should include in my experiences that I cured cancer while shadowing a neurosurgeon that works exclusively with disadvantaged puppies, who's nickname for me was "ol' four point, the best student <your school> will ever have"?"

"...probably?"

I get there's rarely a bad time to make an impression, but damn.

also people just straight up asking for interviews like

"my question is: as someone who has cured cancer, gone to outer space, delivered a baby in a car rolling off of a cliff... why haven't I gotten an interview yet?"

 

[tetley]

yikes - just saw a kid post the wrong school name in a chat. And if you look, he appears to just be going from thread to thread and copy/pasting the same pitch

 

[Fancy_Feast]

yikes - just saw a kid post the wrong school name in a chat. And if you look, he appears to just be going from thread to thread and copy/pasting the same pitch

I'm loving the dramatic play-by-play on here

 

[tetley]

okok
particularly relevant here

Everyone is claiming to be a non-trad

"I took classes during the summer, I'm non trad"
"I took 1 year off after graduating to prepare my MD app, I'm a non-trad"
"as someone who is non-traditional because I took orgo as a sophomore"

a little hyperbole here, but you get the picture

 

[NonTrad16]

Haha I joined that last year. Skipped it this time. Too much... noise.

okok
particularly relevant here

Everyone is claiming to be a non-trad

"I took classes during the summer, I'm non trad"
"I took 1 year off after graduating to prepare my MD app, I'm a non-trad"
"as someone who is non-traditional because I took orgo as a sophomore"

a little hyperbole here, but you get the picture

Agreed. I think it's an attempt to spin what they think is "wrong" into a positive.

 

[Gibbward]

"I took 1 year off after graduating to prepare my MD app, I'm a non-trad"

I mean this is still TECHNICALLY correct, though I guess it really depends on who you're asking...

 

[mavric1298]

I would say there is no "technically". But I love that people think they should label themselves because they think it will in some way help them. Being a non-trad isn't inherently a positive trait, it's just that often people with that label often used additional time to do things, and with increased age, often come increase maturity, etc.


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[shouldigomd]

Failed out of college. Went to CC. Worked after undergrad. Went carib because I had no other choice. 90th percentile board scores. 30+ interviews to academic university IM residency programs. Finishing my rank list.

GL out there guys.

 

[precisiongraphic]

Failed out of college. Went to CC. Worked after undergrad. Went carib because I had no other choice. 90th percentile board scores. 30+ interviews to academic university IM residency programs. Finishing my rank list.

GL out there guys.

Best wishes for the match. Wish you all the success after your hard work. (And I hope that others - especially traditionals - don't automatically think carib will work for them ...non-traditionals may be a different matter).

 

[natwwal]

First post here - just wanted to cheer all of you on! I've been reading this thread for the past few days and what strikes as the most wonderful thing (over acceptances, of course) is how supportive everyone is! I'll be applying next cycle (was going to apply this cycle and take my mcat in may but it all felt too squeezed in, so I postponed to September). I hope the non-trad thread is as encouraging as this year's!

 

[tetley]

womp.
I think I have to re-test and re-apply
started studying today

 

[mavric1298]

I'm sorry that's terrible. Bad mcat result?

On a positive note, out of nowhere I got an II for RosiFranklin today. I saw the email and was like "ahhh he comes the rejections that have been sitting silently. Then saw the word "congratulations". Whoa. Now time to get a last minute flight in 5 days.

This cycle has been crazy. Applied 18 md, 11 do - 2 do II and 2 acceptances, 4 md II and 2 "SUC or Hold pool" (schools known for taking the majority of their class from these status'), one last Friday, and now another one next Friday.

Who would have though id have more luck md than do


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[BlastedHeath]

I think I bombed my first interview this week. I did plenty of mmi prep, and then the prompts given were nothing like I had prepared, and it felt like some of the interviewers didn't even give me a chance to talk. I hate to complain and place blame on circumstances, but I definitely got flustered and didn't feel like I got my points across. Still have two interviews to go, and neither are mmi, so hopefully it goes better.

 

[SpaceLeftBlank]

I think I bombed my first interview this week. I did plenty of mmi prep, and then the prompts given were nothing like I had prepared, and it felt like some of the interviewers didn't even give me a chance to talk. I hate to complain and place blame on circumstances, but I definitely got flustered and didn't feel like I got my points across. Still have two interviews to go, and neither are mmi, so hopefully it goes better.

That's the thing about MMIs--they're less about what you say and more about whether you can handle something out of left field without getting flustered -- like they expect physicians to do.

IMHO the best way to prepare for an MMI is to focus less on what you are going to say and more on how you're going to say it.


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[mavric1298]

Agreed. Along with just being confident in your own thoughts on large subjects. If you try to waffle it really shows. Yeah the prompt may be about some crazy specific example of something, but generally they are targeted around a bigger picture ethical question. What roll do you see doctors playing? What are patients responsibilities? Etc. also it's about how you think - not necessarily your exact answers. That's why I try to just think out loud and walk through my thought process - rather than to jot notes and recite an answers when you get in the room.

I've seen lots of people in that minute before you enter trying to madly scribble stuff down - personally I think this is entirely the wrong approach. Be yourself, and really think about what the question is actually asking.


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[banana_phone]

Changing topic:

I was offered a small, but not insignificant merit scholarship from a school. Said school is not my top choice school, but is in the same city as my top choice. I haven't heard anything from top choice school about financial aid. What should I do? I'm hoping to have top choice school match the scholarship (knowing that it's not gigantic, I'm hopeful they will say yes)...but I don't know when/how to attack this. Do I wait to see their aid package, or reach out now? Phone vs email?

Any ideas? @Eccesignum I know you have experience with this!

 

[Eccesignum]

Changing topic:

I was offered a small, but not insignificant merit scholarship from a school. Said school is not my top choice school, but is in the same city as my top choice. I haven't heard anything from top choice school about financial aid. What should I do? I'm hoping to have top choice school match the scholarship (knowing that it's not gigantic, I'm hopeful they will say yes)...but I don't know when/how to attack this. Do I wait to see their aid package, or reach out now? Phone vs email?

Any ideas? @Eccesignum I know you have experience with this!

Ahaha oh boy do I.

I had two scholarships to schools that were very high on my list but not top choice. I waited for my top choice to send their package out first, and they did so in the third week of March. They offered some money but not enough for it to be a financially sound choice in light of the other two. I emailed the person at my top choice who had notified me about the decision and was basically straight with him -- that school was my top choice and I'd drop everything right now to go there, but these other schools offered me $X and $X and so attending <Top Choice> would be a poor life decision. Was there anything they might be able to do.

He had me send screenshots of my other offers so he could see, and also advised me to write a heartfelt letter to the admissions dean professing my love for <Top Choice> and explaining my situation -- older, financially independent from parents, completely shouldering my own debt etc etc. I broke down my projected debt load from their offer versus my other offers, and said I'd withdraw immediately from other schools if they were able to offer at least $X (looking back that was probably a bit ballsy but...lol). Dean wrote me back, very nice response, told me they would consider it and to hang on.

Some more hem-hawing followed and then finally like 4 days before withdraw deadline, they upped the offer by quite a bit and did in the end make it financially worth it.

So, it still being early March you have time for your top choice to send out and offer and then to dicker if you want to (dickering is definitely worth it). If time starts to be an issue, as some schools wait til the last second to send offers, go ahead and contact them. Email is fine. Keep in mind places often hand out money early but then get it back as people withdraw (I suspect that's what happened with me given the time frame), so if your top choice asks you to wait and see then definitely do.

 

[BlastedHeath]

I think I bombed my first interview this week. I did plenty of mmi prep, and then the prompts given were nothing like I had prepared, and it felt like some of the interviewers didn't even give me a chance to talk. I hate to complain and place blame on circumstances, but I definitely got flustered and didn't feel like I got my points across. Still have two interviews to go, and neither are mmi, so hopefully it goes better.

Update: I was placed on hold pending the final grades in my SMP, so my interview wasn't enough to sink me, must not have been as bad as I thought. I have to retake an exam so an outright acceptance was impossible right now, so I'm very happy with this decision.

 

[kraskadva]

Ermagerd ya'll, just got another interview invite. Thought I was done for the cycle, just waiting for the rest of the rejects to trickle in and then Albany decides they want to see me at the 11th hour.
Not sure if I want to go or not...
- wouldn't cost much other than gas, since I have family close enough to stay with
- but also don't know that I would take it over my other MD acceptance (@ Rosy Franklin) if I did get in
- but also super curious about how I would do, because vanity

 

[Eccesignum]

Ermagerd ya'll, just got another interview invite. Thought I was done for the cycle, just waiting for the rest of the rejects to trickle in and then Albany decides they want to see me at the 11th hour.
Not sure if I want to go or not...
- wouldn't cost much other than gas, since I have family close enough to stay with
- but also don't know that I would take it over my other MD acceptance (@ Rosy Franklin) if I did get in
- but also super curious about how I would do, because vanity

If it wouldn't put you out financially or time-wise, I'd go. You never know what surprise love you might find you have for Albany after actually seeing it, it could change your mind. Plus if you get in and they offer money, you can use that as leverage with Rosy Frank if you like RF better.

 

[kraskadva]

If it wouldn't put you out financially or time-wise, I'd go. You never know what surprise love you might find you have for Albany after actually seeing it, it could change your mind. Plus if you get in and they offer money, you can use that as leverage with Rosy Frank if you like RF better.

Yeah, I scheduled it. Can't hurt to look and it'll only cost <$100 in gas.
Though I'm not going to hold my breath for money or leverage since they're both mid-tier and my numbers aren't amazeballs.

 

[holdthemayo]

I just received a rejection (pre-II) from the last school I was waiting to hear from, which means my application cycle is officially over. A year ago I was studying everyday for the MCAT, honestly wondering if I would get an interview anywhere. Now I'm getting ready to move in a few months to start at an MD school.

17 Secondaries sent (MD&DO)
8 II
5 interviews attended
3 DO acceptances/1 MD acceptance/1 WL

I couldn't be happier with how things went this year. To top it off, my first acceptance came on the same day my son was born! Thanks everyone for the support.

 

[BlastedHeath]

Currently on hold at one school pending grades, waiting to hear back from my interview a few days ago, and my third and final interview is this week, but the weather is not looking great for travel so I'm not sure what will happen there. Will be nice to put this stressful stretch behind me one way or another.

 

[tluedeke]

My experience is not good. 48 yo, 128/127/125/124, pre-med GPA = 3.76 (shaky grades when I was younger, though). 20 years of engineering experience, juggled pre-med and career, 100+ hours of Hospice, EM shadowing.

Probably 10-12 secondaries sent, three interviews (2 MD, 1 DO), no acceptances, one D.O. waitlist. I know a number of the people accepted at places I interviewed, and they were getting in with remarkably thinner GPA/MCAT/experiences, even at out-of-state MD schools.

Pretty devastated. I absolutely drove myself into the ground over the last 3+ years (continual 100 hour weeks), all for naught.

 

[Fancy_Feast]

My experience is not good. 48 yo, 128/127/125/124, pre-med GPA = 3.76 (shaky grades when I was younger, though). 20 years of engineering experience, juggled pre-med and career, 100+ hours of Hospice, EM shadowing.

Probably 10-12 secondaries sent, three interviews (2 MD, 1 DO), no acceptances, one D.O. waitlist. I know a number of the people accepted at places I interviewed, and they were getting in with remarkably thinner GPA/MCAT/experiences, even at out-of-state MD schools.

Pretty devastated. I absolutely drove myself into the ground over the last 3+ years (continual 100 hour weeks), all for naught.

I also didn't get into school the first time around and it sucks! It made me question if the burnout I had been putting myself through was worth it. It seems that your app was pretty good (3 II is great! Especially those MD interviews with a lower MCAT!), but you probably should have applied to more schools. I don't know the specifics of you app, but it seems that you should be able to get in after a second cycle. What do you plan to do next? Have you kept the DO school updated on current activities? Best of luck.

 

[Gurby]

My experience is not good. 48 yo, 128/127/125/124, pre-med GPA = 3.76 (shaky grades when I was younger, though). 20 years of engineering experience, juggled pre-med and career, 100+ hours of Hospice, EM shadowing.

Probably 10-12 secondaries sent, three interviews (2 MD, 1 DO), no acceptances, one D.O. waitlist. I know a number of the people accepted at places I interviewed, and they were getting in with remarkably thinner GPA/MCAT/experiences, even at out-of-state MD schools.

Pretty devastated. I absolutely drove myself into the ground over the last 3+ years (continual 100 hour weeks), all for naught.

Why only 10-12 secondaries? 3/10 is honestly pretty good yield. Fingers crossed for the DO waitlist, but I think if you had to reapply you would have success with a bigger net (as in 20-25+ secondaries).

 

[tluedeke]

Why only 10-12 secondaries? 3/10 is honestly pretty good yield. Fingers crossed for the DO waitlist, but I think if you had to reapply you would have success with a bigger net (as in 20-25+ secondaries).

It might be closer to 15, they turned into a blur after a while. Can't remember specifically (and now I don't care anymore). It was a complete waste of money and time applying to out-of-state MD schools, anyways. MD schools don't like old non-trads in general, and they really don't like them from other states.

 

[Fancy_Feast]

It might be closer to 15, they turned into a blur after a while. Can't remember specifically (and now I don't care anymore). It was a complete waste of money and time applying to out-of-state MD schools, anyways. MD schools don't like old non-trads in general, and they really don't like them from other states.

Were you applying to state schools or private school in other states? Most state schools take a very small percentage of OOS applicants and it isn't really a good use of money applying to them. Did you use MSAR when choosing schools? I think with a revamped school list you could do well.

 

[tluedeke]

Were you applying to state schools or private school in other states? Most state schools take a very small percentage of OOS applicants and it isn't really a good use of money applying to them. Did you use MSAR when choosing schools? I think with a revamped school list you could do well.

No. I didn't even know about MSAR until I'd already applied. I just researched schools that I thought were a good fit (rural states, WA [where I'm from], strong focus on rural primary care, receptive [as possible] to non-trads, relatively good out of state percent acceptance rates, GPA/MCAT ranges). They should have been a good fit. Then again, probably every medical school candidate tells them they love rural primary care and it was their dream, because they just want in (then specialize and leave).

 

[tetley]

It might be closer to 15, they turned into a blur after a while. Can't remember specifically (and now I don't care anymore). It was a complete waste of money and time applying to out-of-state MD schools, anyways. MD schools don't like old non-trads in general, and they really don't like them from other states.

hey, don't get down!
I'm so impressed you got those 2 MD! and as a fellow engineer changing course, I feel like I can appreciate your situation a little more than others

I think the biggest weakness for you (and same for me) is the MCAT. Realistically, they want us to blow it out of the water if we are coming back from average UG grades, so we have to just keep plugging along. Re-test if you can, and just remember to relax and enjoy the process.

I know it seems unrealistic to enjoy the MCAT, but hear me out. I spent a lot of time beating myself up over a cycle with very minimal traction, but then I spoke to a few high-placed people and they gave me the feedback that my app is "very strong and they just want to see the MCAT as a way of hitting home that I can handle something like boards".

As much as that sucks, it's a huge weight off my shoulders knowing that everything else is appealing (and it seems like you're so close too - with your experience and everything). Knowing that this is all I have left, I'm going in with the confidence of knowing that WHEN I do well, I'm going to kick down doors during my interviews and leave with a bunch of offers.

I know that this mindset isn't for everyone, but you already have such great silver lining (2MD II with a low 500? Incredible!)

As the great Tim Allen once said in Galaxy Quest

NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER SURRENDER!

 

[NonTrad16]

No. I didn't even know about MSAR until I'd already applied. I just researched schools that I thought were a good fit (rural states, WA [where I'm from], strong focus on rural primary care, receptive [as possible] to non-trads, relatively good out of state percent acceptance rates, GPA/MCAT ranges). They should have been a good fit. Then again, probably every medical school candidate tells them they love rural primary care and it was their dream, because they just want in (then specialize and leave).

Another engineer here...

Apart from a crafted school list, make sure you have the volunteering down. I applied last year with too little/no non clinical (for those in need) and received no invites. A small tweak and I received a handful this year as well as acceptances. If they invited you to interview you're close -- you just have to figure out what it was that wasn't good enough. (I got good feedback when contacting schools, though only 2 of 10+ I contacted responded). Also, schools that didn't interview me last year did this year, so... it's about identifying weaknesses and mending them. If you give more detail in this thread (or another), others would happily help.

Good luck on your journey....!

 

[esob]

It might be closer to 15, they turned into a blur after a while. Can't remember specifically (and now I don't care anymore). It was a complete waste of money and time applying to out-of-state MD schools, anyways. MD schools don't like old non-trads in general, and they really don't like them from other states.

I think that statement is not really accurate. I know of an older applicant who applied in Tx but with a stellar GPA and MCAT and got interviews at 100% of the schools he applied to and multiple MD acceptances, including one of the most competitive in the nation. I would wager your MCAT score more than your age is the limiting factor in the decision process. Your GPA/MCAT combo gives you a historical 22% chance at acceptance (a couple points higher on the MCAT would have doubled that), which again doesn't seem so much like pure age discrimination. I'm not saying it wasn't a factor but when your riding only slightly above the mean on the MCAT I can see why that would be a much bigger part of the application than your age. In comparison, my "old" friend who did well in the process had a statistical probability of 90% for an acceptance, and he got several. He may have had some age discrimination thrown in but his numbers were so high he was able to offset it so significantly that it didn't matter.

 

[mavric1298]

As future doctors I hope we can all agree "my friend" n=1 isn't good to go off of. The simple fact if you compare matriculation %'s of older students it goes down. This is pretty clear evidence that age matters. Not many older students are applying without a compelling reason, yet they are being accepted at a lower rate.


Edit: loaded the wrong table - I'll find the % of matriculants in each age group one and you can compare against the % of applicants in each age group to get an idea of acceptance rates