*** 2018-2019 MD/PhD cycle - Questions, Comments, and other things ***

[ExcitatorySynapse]

Should we worry about early Rs/do MSTP programs give feedback on applications? I'm scared that something is wrong with my application or something. PSU 10/1 -> 10/8 R, VCU 10/3 -> 10/4 R. Do any other international applicants or MD/PhD students have experience with this? I noticed in the past that some schools do rejections quickly for Canadians (UChicago), maybe because they don't want to fork out the 800k or so. PSU says that they 'accept' and did take 2 international MD applicants, but no MD/PhDs last year. I doubt MD/PhD programs yield protect, so I imagine the issue is with me.

It's hard to not get down sometimes, I feel like I have done all I can Better pray that this current research experience results in a publication, I guess.

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[TheJooce]

Should we worry about early Rs/do MSTP programs give feedback on applications? I'm scared that something is wrong with my application or something. PSU 10/1 -> 10/8 R, VCU 10/3 -> 10/4 R. Do any other international applicants or MD/PhD students have experience with this? I noticed in the past that some schools do rejections quickly for Canadians (UChicago), maybe because they don't want to fork out the 800k or so. PSU says that they 'accept' and did take 2 international MD applicants, but no MD/PhDs last year. I doubt MD/PhD programs yield protect, so I imagine the issue is with me.

It's hard to not get down sometimes, I feel like I have done all I can Better pray that this current research experience results in a publication, I guess.

From Harvard's FAQs:
Can an international citizen apply to the MD-PhD Program and receive funding?
Foreign citizens (those who are not US citizens or permanent residents) with competitive applications are welcome to apply. Although international students are not eligible to receive funding provided by the National Institutes of Health (NIH) Medical Scientist Training Program (MSTP) grant, an exceptional foreign student could be offered admission to the program with funding from other sources. This funding opportunity is usually limited to one international student per year. HMS requires applicants to have at least one year of university level course work from a US or Canadian university. If you have a foreign school undergraduate degree already, then you would have to complete 1 academic year (2 semesters) in the United States or Canada prior to matriculating at Harvard Medical School. Foreign students who do not have a BA/BS from an institution in the US or Canada are not likely to be accepted for admission. Please contact HMS Admissions with questions regarding international eligibility: Admissions.

It looks like international students who aren't permanent residents (see U Chicago's FAQs) can't receive MSTP funding. So if you applied to a lot of MSTPs, that would definitely be a problem.

 

[ExcitatorySynapse]

From Harvard's FAQs:
Can an international citizen apply to the MD-PhD Program and receive funding?
Foreign citizens (those who are not US citizens or permanent residents) with competitive applications are welcome to apply. Although international students are not eligible to receive funding provided by the National Institutes of Health (NIH) Medical Scientist Training Program (MSTP) grant, an exceptional foreign student could be offered admission to the program with funding from other sources. This funding opportunity is usually limited to one international student per year. HMS requires applicants to have at least one year of university level course work from a US or Canadian university. If you have a foreign school undergraduate degree already, then you would have to complete 1 academic year (2 semesters) in the United States or Canada prior to matriculating at Harvard Medical School. Foreign students who do not have a BA/BS from an institution in the US or Canada are not likely to be accepted for admission. Please contact HMS Admissions with questions regarding international eligibility: Admissions.

It looks like international students who aren't permanent residents (see U Chicago's FAQs) can't receive MSTP funding. So if you applied to a lot of MSTPs, that would definitely be a problem.

Yes, I did that knowingly, under the advice of some people because there aren't many options otherwise. Some programs express that they are opening to funding internationals despite the restriction, and do so with some regularity (WUSTL is the first example I can think of). Historically, several international SDN-ers have gotten accepted into such programs. I was just curious whether quick rejections had any significance for programs that do accept internationals.

I appreciate you taking the time to look it up though, sincerely.

 

[TheJooce]

Gotcha. Yeah, I also saw that on WUStL's website and was confused about the mixed signals compared to other schools' statements.

Either way, it's definitely an uphill battle, so props for sticking in there. Best of luck!

 

[evasive fish]

It looks like international students who aren't permanent residents (see U Chicago's FAQs) can't receive MSTP funding. So if you applied to a lot of MSTPs, that would definitely be a problem.

Yes, I did that knowingly, under the advice of some people because there aren't many options otherwise. Some programs express that they are opening to funding internationals despite the restriction, and do so with some regularity (WUSTL is the first example I can think of).

This is something that puzzles me... It seems that the main deterrent for us international applicants (or prospective future applicants) is that we don't qualify for NIH MSTP funding. Yet, the vast majority of schools that do consider internationals are MSTPs - of course, they are willing to use private, institutional money to fund foreigners. But what about non-MSTP MD/PhD programs (those not funded by the NIH)??? They obviously have smaller classes, but assuming they're using their own institution's money to fund MD-PhD students, they could theoretically be open to internationals, since the NIH funding argument doesn't apply. But many of them still don't consider internationals. Any insights on why this might be the case? @Fencer ?

 

[drbeener]

Thank you for the sage advice Fencer! Definitely good to have some inside perspective on how the application process is working. You should start charging applicants for questions like an admissions consultant

 

[ExcitatorySynapse]

This is something that puzzles me... It seems that the main deterrent for us international applicants (or prospective future applicants) is that we don't qualify for NIH MSTP funding. Yet, the vast majority of schools that do consider internationals are MSTPs - of course, they are willing to use private, institutional money to fund foreigners. But what about non-MSTP MD/PhD programs (those not funded by the NIH)??? They obviously have smaller classes, but assuming they're using their own institution's money to fund MD-PhD students, they could theoretically be open to internationals, since the NIH funding argument doesn't apply. But many of them still don't consider internationals. Any insights on why this might be the case? @Fencer ?

That's a good point. I wonder if its because they simply have fewer slots and perhaps the private funding attached is somehow still NIH linked? Via T32 grants or something else? Or maybe they have a mission to serve their own communities while the top schools want the best students/alumni.

 

[4lphabet]

That's a good point. I wonder if its because they simply have fewer slots and perhaps the private funding attached is somehow still NIH linked? Via T32 grants or something else? Or maybe they have a mission to serve their own communities while the top schools want the best students/alumni.

We're also ineligible for F30 grants . And pretty much every US-based fellowship. Are there any int'l research fellowships (like Hertz/NSF/Soros) that don't have citizenship/gc/pr requirements?

 

[ExcitatorySynapse]

We're also ineligible for F30 grants . And pretty much every US-based fellowship. Are there any int'l research fellowships (like Hertz/NSF/Soros) that don't have citizenship/gc/pr requirements?

Well, I know that some countries fund doctoral programs abroad for their own citizens. For Canada, there is -> ResearchNet - RechercheNet
And maybe some private funding organizations are also open to funding internationals? It is rough. From my experience with undergrad, it's usually the rich schools who can afford to be "need blind," or in this case, even look at international apps, because they have lots of private funding. I noticed that most internationals at my undergrad were named 'scholars' or had some other institutional fellowship, which gave us access to private funding. The ones who didn't have the designation tended to be full pay.

 

[TheJooce]

Thanks guys for your kind words and support! I was super worried that there was something drastically wrong with my app after I got the early Rs, but now I am more hopeful! I have a question - are MD/PhD programs receptive to ITA emails? I'm thinking of going to the mid-November date that Upstate offered me, so that I can visit family/friends for Thanksgiving in NYC right after. I noticed that some other NYC/LI schools have interviews around that time and was thinking of writing them/Columbia who doesn't but where I have worked, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea. I'm flying from San Diego, i.e. literal opposite side of the country, and it's at least 500$ roundtrip, 700-800 for the date I will be flying in. My premed advisor did not seem to think that it was good because they may not have reviewed my app by then etc., but would love to hear what you guys think

Yeah, if you’re pushing it back I don’t see it being a problematic request, especially if you laid out how much more expensive it would be.

 

[biochembaozi]

Should I be concerned if I only have one II so far (which is in December)? When should I start panicking if I haven't heard from other schools? I have called several schools regarding to my application status, but the generic response is that the Adcom is still review applications. I finished all the secondaries by mid Aug.

 

[TheJooce]

Should I be concerned if I only have one II so far (which is in December)? When should I start panicking if I haven't heard from other schools? I have called several schools regarding to my application status, but the generic response is that the Adcom is still review applications. I finished all the secondaries by mid Aug.

As per Fencer’s common wisdom, if you don’t have 3-5 options at this point, it’s not looking good. I would send out a couple more secondaries to match/safety schools before the deadlines. How many secondaries did you submit and how many rejections?

 

[biochembaozi]

As per Fencer’s common wisdom, if you don’t have 3-5 options at this point, it’s not looking good. I would send out a couple more secondaries to match/safety schools before the deadlines. How many secondaries did you submit and how many rejections?

I have 18 secondaries submitted and 1 rejection so far.

 

[TheJooce]

I have 18 secondaries submitted and 1 rejection so far.

Did you submit late?

 

[biochembaozi]

Did you submit late?

I was verified in late July and submitted all secondaries by mid-August.

 

[TheJooce]

I was verified in late July and submitted all secondaries by mid-August.

Which is completely in the range of normal. Again, at this point I would really consider applying to some new schools and reaching out to Fencer or an academic advisor for more specific advice.

 

[ClinicianScientist]

If you have multiple significant research projects in more than one lab, I was wondering if at your research faculty interviews you should focus on your most significant research project in one lab when asked "Tell me about your research" or discuss your different projects even if they involve different research areas?

 

[4lphabet]

If you have multiple significant research projects in more than one lab, I was wondering if at your research faculty interviews you should focus on your most significant research project in one lab when asked "Tell me about your research" or discuss your different projects even if they involve different research areas?

I had like two-sentence summaries for each of my projects and asked which they'd like me to expand on, but tended to default to my most recent, or most pertinent to their lab.

 

[lifeofmedicine]

Hi @Fencer thank you for the great advice you have given so far.

Looking ahead, as more of us go on different interviews and get to know the faculty/school better, we start to get a better understanding of where we see ourselves for the next 8 years or so. Should a letter of intent play any part in the process? There seem to be mixed guidelines on MD only threads but wondering if there's any consensus for MD/PhD programs.

Edit: grammar

 

[biochembaozi]

Which is completely in the range of normal. Again, at this point I would really consider applying to some new schools and reaching out to Fencer or an academic advisor for more specific advice.

thanks for your advice!

 

[Fencer]

You can send letters of intent/interest to your top 2-3 places that you are truly most interested. Include names of potential mentors who have graduate students (or preferably MD/PhD students).

 

[Housekeeping_Gene]

Anyone know if we should write thank you notes to our interviewers? Seems like a good idea but there would be so many...

 

[Maebea]

Anyone know if we should write thank you notes to our interviewers? Seems like a good idea but there would be so many...

Not entirely necessary, but if you do it, do not send a packet of notes to the MD-PhD administrator and ask her to distribute them. This happens every year, and the administrator let's the admissions committee know of her displeasure. The best strategy is to send a note to the 1 or 2 faculty that you feel you best connected with. They will be your best advocates at decision time.

 

[PursuingHappy]

I do hope to see some of u guys on the interview trail. You guys are very supportive and I wouldn't mind having you all as classmates

 

[looptheloop]

I do hope to see some of u guys on the interview trail. You guys are very supportive and I wouldn't mind having you all as classmates

I feel the same way! I feel like we're already a family on this thread
I'm like personally invested in everybody's success here, haha.

 

[PursuingHappy]

I feel the same way! I feel like we're already a family on this thread
I'm like personally invested in everybody's success here, haha.

Lol same.

 

[faerie62]

I wonder if I’ve already met some of you.

 

[ExcitatorySynapse]

Anyone have experience with MMI for MD/PhD interviews? I did two MMIs in Canada as a high school student for accelerated/guaranteed programs, but I think MMI there is more painful than in the US, and it was for strictly MD. I was pretty uniformly terrible at both lmao, way too nervous and had zero life experience to tell me how I should respond to situations involving a potentially alcoholic neighbor

 

[deleted927298]

@pubh12 I saw that you got a II from UMass MDPhD. I cannot message you on SDN (option disabled), but I wanted to ask you how the interview went and any advice you would have? UMass MDPhD is my top choice for next cycle.

 

[PursuingHappy]

Anyone have experience with MMI for MD/PhD interviews? I did two MMIs in Canada as a high school student for accelerated/guaranteed programs, but I think MMI there is more painful than in the US, and it was for strictly MD. I was pretty uniformly terrible at both lmao, way too nervous and had zero life experience to tell me how I should respond to situations involving a potentially alcoholic neighbor

I had an MMI for an interview. I honestly don't know how I did on it but it was something I couldn't have prepared for. The questions were moreso about life experiences. It was with the MD only candidates, so the questions were tailored to being a doctor vs research.

 

[Lucca]

Honestly have no idea how MSTP adcoms make decisions cuz everyone I’ve met seems really great and like people I’d want to be classmates with lol

 

[Lucca]

I had an MMI for an interview. I honestly don't know how I did on it but it was something I couldn't have prepared for. The questions were moreso about life experiences. It was with the MD only candidates, so the questions were tailored to being a doctor vs research.

Interesting. I’ve only had one MMI but it was always some ethical dilemma in a professional setting, only one had a follow up question that was somewhat about my personal experience

 

[ExcitatorySynapse]

I had an MMI for an interview. I honestly don't know how I did on it but it was something I couldn't have prepared for. The questions were moreso about life experiences. It was with the MD only candidates, so the questions were tailored to being a doctor vs research.

Interesting. I’ve only had one MMI but it was always some ethical dilemma in a professional setting, only one had a follow up question that was somewhat about my personal experience

Two very opposite experiences, ha! I guess I will try to prep for both.

 

[TheJooce]

Honestly have no idea how MSTP adcoms make decisions cuz everyone I’ve met seems really great and like people I’d want to be classmates with lol

Yeah, I felt the same way on my first interview. I was expecting having at least one openly and overly strange/quiet person, but everyone was so cool and we ended up hanging out after the planned activities. It was really pleasant! But at the same time I was like 'They've got to make some pretty arbitrary decisions about who they accept...'

 

[Maebea]

Honestly have no idea how MSTP adcoms make decisions cuz everyone I’ve met seems really great and like people I’d want to be classmates with lol

QFT! There are a handful of interviewees every year who are so outstanding that it is like talking to a faculty member. And then there are 1 or 2 that are so far down the tail on the other end, that you wonder why you invited them to interview in the first place. The vast majority of interviewees are varying degrees of excellent who would do fine in your program. We spend some time splitting hairs, but those 1 or 2 notwithstanding, we could pull names out of a hat and be happy with the results.

 

[faerie62]

Ngl now that it’s october 15 my anxiety is thru the roof xD I feel like maybe I’m not a great interviewee.

 

[ExcitatorySynapse]

Ngl now that it’s october 15 my anxiety is thru the roof xD I feel like maybe I’m not a great interviewee.

I'm not sure if it's the extreme stress driven sleep deprivation but this ancient wisdom keeps reappearing in my mind.

Spoiler

I am sure that you are much better than you think you are

 

[ExcitatorySynapse]

Is it possible to re-schedule an interview at UPenn where interviews are based on graduate program? Due to unforeseen circumstances I have no choice but to ask for a later date, but am concerned that they will not be able to accommodate my request. Would greatly appreciate any advice!

I feel if you call them and explain the reason, they might be willing to accommodate you. You don't know unless you try!

 

[ClimbsRox]

Any other MSTP applicants get "Hold" or "R" from UCSD? I know a few invites have gone out. Their email says 2-6 weeks you will get a decision between that or interview. Its just been radio silence for me.

 

[Housekeeping_Gene]

Any other MSTP applicants get "Hold" or "R" from UCSD? I know a few invites have gone out. Their email says 2-6 weeks you will get a decision between that or interview. Its just been radio silence for me.

It's been 10+ weeks for me with nothing

 

[~ME~]

It's been 10+ weeks for me with nothing

Me too

 

[ClimbsRox]

Thanks. Glad to see others are still waiting. I was complete mid-July.

 

[ExcitatorySynapse]

^ my friend got an R from there.
I am starting to find that I am incredibly unhappy with my gap year lab. They're not doing hypothesis driven research anymore because they want to commercialize certain technology and I feel like I'm being asked to do more technical work/t and not being given a chance to develop as a scientist/thinker. The PI is famous but I'm far from my friends/family and not happy. I'm thinking of lasting it out for 6-7 months at least, but should I get an acceptance, would it be bad if I left?

 

[TheJooce]

^ my friend got an R from there.
I am starting to find that I am incredibly unhappy with my gap year lab. They're not doing hypothesis driven research anymore because they want to commercialize certain technology and I feel like I'm being asked to do more technical work/t and not being given a chance to develop as a scientist/thinker. The PI is famous but I'm far from my friends/family and not happy. I'm thinking of lasting it out for 6-7 months at least, but should I get an acceptance, would it be bad if I left?

No. I really don't think a school would question it—or know about it. And if they did, you could just tell them the truth: you learned as much as you could and left for your own sanity. I don't think any sensible admin person would fault you for that.

 

[hopefulmedstudent2014]

Hi everyone,
I got rejected from an MSTP program recently, and now want to be considered for the MD only program. They say to please return to AMCAS and change the application type from Combined Medical Degree to MD ONLY, but I'm confused about how to do this. AMCAS doesn't let me make the change when I go to the "Medical Schools" tab and click on the school's program.

 

[Fencer]

Contact AMCAS directly... (if it is past their due time, tell them the school told you to do so).

 

[hopefulmedstudent2014]

Contact AMCAS directly... (if it is past their due time, tell them the school told you to do so).

Thank you!

 

[ExcitatorySynapse]

No. I really don't think a school would question it—or know about it. And if they did, you could just tell them the truth: you learned as much as you could and left for your own sanity. I don't think any sensible admin person would fault you for that.

Thanks, every day I'm there, I get more ticked off. I'm trying to make the best of it, but it's rough. No one asks any questions, and the PI is never around. It's so blah and is putting me off from 'translational' research.

 

[SonhosDaVida]

@ClimbsRox Can you DM me about your research exp and stats? I was interested in how you transitioned from community college to BS and now will become a MDPhD. Thank you. I cannot DM you, the option is turned off on your profile

 

[ClimbsRox]

@ClimbsRox Can you DM me about your research exp and stats? I was interested in how you transitioned from community college to BS and now will become a MDPhD. Thank you. I cannot DM you, the option is turned off on your profile

I can't DM you either. I've pretty much "outed" myself on here already. I'm sure anyone who knows me can figure out who I am already, so I might as well post it publicly. Maybe it will help someone else anyway.

Short version: Mediocre highschool student (~3.0, no extracurriculars or anything), unstable home life, out on my own after HS graduation, worked for two years, started CC part time while working full time. Decided if it was worth doing, it was worth doing well. I thought about studying English, Psych, Social work, etc., but fell in love with biology accidentally in my second year. Graduated in 2.5 years with 4.0 gpa, honors, etc. Transferred to a competitive 4 year research university nearby with a small scholarship. I took out a bunch of loans, but I landed a full tuition scholarship the next year, so got by pretty well. Decided to major in biochemistry because I was most interested in the molecular mechanisms of life. Ended up spending 3.5 years there. Graduated with about a 3.9. Worked in a microbiology lab for 2.5 years (15-25 hours a week) which landed me 2 middle author publications and 1st author pending. Worked as a bio TA for 2 years. Spent a year volunteering in an ER. I also spent two summers and now a 2 year fellowship at a separate institution doing research, which landed me another middle author pub and a 1st author in preparation. Basically, I worked my tail off in CC and then again at university, spent many hours in the lab, and studied hard. I took the MCAT after I graduated and landed a 100th percentile score, part of that was preparation, part of that was luck. So final stats: 3.9GPA, 100th percentile MCAT, ~4 years research experience, 3 pubs, and a bunch of misc volunteering and academic work over the course of about 7 years. All of that from someone that nearly dropped out of high school a decade ago. I say that because community college is the most important thing I have ever done and I am very upfront about that in my apps and interviews. Its a strength, not a weakness.