*** 2018-2019 MD/PhD cycle - Questions, Comments, and other things ***

[Lucca]

I can't DM you either. I've pretty much "outed" myself on here already. I'm sure anyone who knows me can figure out who I am already, so I might as well post it publicly. Maybe it will help someone else anyway.

Short version: Mediocre highschool student (~3.0, no extracurriculars or anything), unstable home life, out on my own after HS graduation, worked for two years, started CC part time while working full time. Decided if it was worth doing, it was worth doing well. I thought about studying English, Psych, Social work, etc., but fell in love with biology accidentally in my second year. Graduated in 2.5 years with 4.0 gpa, honors, etc. Transferred to a competitive 4 year research university nearby with a small scholarship. I took out a bunch of loans, but I landed a full tuition scholarship the next year, so got by pretty well. Decided to major in biochemistry because I was most interested in the molecular mechanisms of life. Ended up spending 3.5 years there. Graduated with about a 3.9. Worked in a microbiology lab for 2.5 years (15-25 hours a week) which landed me 2 middle author publications and 1st author pending. Worked as a bio TA for 2 years. Spent a year volunteering in an ER. I also spent two summers and now a 2 year fellowship at a separate institution doing research, which landed me another middle author pub and a 1st author in preparation. Basically, I worked my tail off in CC and then again at university, spent many hours in the lab, and studied hard. I took the MCAT after I graduated and landed a 100th percentile score, part of that was preparation, part of that was luck. So final stats: 3.9GPA, 100th percentile MCAT, ~4 years research experience, 3 pubs, and a bunch of misc volunteering and academic work over the course of about 7 years. All of that from someone that nearly dropped out of high school a decade ago. I say that because community college is the most important thing I have ever done and I am very upfront about that in my apps and interviews. Its a strength, not a weakness.

Thanks for sharing that with us. I think it’s really important actually for future applicants to read this post. The main info traded on premed sites and between premeds IRL is stats + ORM/URM status + state of residence but that says SO LITTLE about someone, in fact virtually nothing. If you have a strong, coherent narrative that shows your a mature human being and scientist and you have people willing to back that up, I genuinely believe that is what distinguishes the very best applicants from less successful ones with similar objective metrics.

I think a lot of potentially excellent apps might be held back by a blasé attitude about the written portions of the app and letter writer choice. Even at my research faculty interviews, certain written portions of my app have been brought up explicitly in interviews.

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[Fencer]

ClimbRox is an outstanding human being, and a promising physician-scientist. No kidding! I have talked to ClimbRox several times and read the AMCAS application. The application reads much better than the post above. Truly, it has been privilege to pay for dinner a few times, we have met.

 

[Fencer]

Update - 2019 MD/PhD Application Cycle as of 10/19/18 overnight sync

Total MD/PhD Applicants - 1668
Total Applicants with at least one MD/PhD Acceptance - 34

New MCAT -- AC ----- All Applicants
Mean CPBS -- 128.8 ----- 127.9
Mean CARS -- 128.7 ----- 127.2
Mean BBFL -- 129.7 ----- 128.2
Mean PSBB -- 129.1 ----- 128.3
TOTAL -------- 516.3 - --- 511.6
n --------------- 34 -------- 1647
Science GPA -- 3.78 ------ 3.62
cGPA ---------- 3.80 ------ 3.69

 

[Purple squid]

@ClimbsRox Can you DM me about your research exp and stats? I was interested in how you transitioned from community college to BS and now will become a MDPhD. Thank you. I cannot DM you, the option is turned off on your profile

Hey Sonhos, I also went to community college and am now applying MD-PhD. You can message me with any questions you have and I’ll do my best to help you. I have a pretty similar story to climbsrox with some minor differences. Most notably, I didn’t figure out I wanted to do this whole research and doctoring thing until pretty late in my college career. So maybe I can offer a different perspective .

 

[mstprooting4everyoneblack]

do we have an acceptance thread going?

 

[mstprooting4everyoneblack]

do we have an acceptance thread going?

nevermind found it

 

[makemeadoctordoctordoctor]

nevermind found it

Post a link? I can’t find it

 

[mstprooting4everyoneblack]

Post a link? I can’t find it

*** 2018-2019 MD/PhD Acceptances ***

 

[ClimbsRox]

Thanks Lucca and Fencer for the kind words. For most of my "pre-med" life, I have found SDN to be a pretty unwelcoming place and have avoided the site. However, I have found this Physician Scientist forum to be a great place for information sharing and support through this lengthy application process. Happy y'all are my future colleagues.

 

[Nolaughingmatter]

Hi everyone...
I applied MSTP to my state school and have been under review for 2+ months. Am getting concerned as I have had some feedback from a couple of MD/PhDers that my 3000 hours of research experience (based on when I would matriculate) may not be enough to be a competitive MD/PhD candidate this round. Was thinking about changing my application to MD only as I would have an advantage as an in-state resident. Was wondering how this would be perceived by the MD admissions folks to change from MSTP to MD only. Will it raise flags or be perceived as negative? Any comments/thoughts would be most appreciated!

 

[nycmstp]

Thanks Lucca and Fencer for the kind words. For most of my "pre-med" life, I have found SDN to be a pretty unwelcoming place and have avoided the site. However, I have found this Physician Scientist forum to be a great place for information sharing and support through this lengthy application process. Happy y'all are my future colleagues.

Hey yeah I don’t know anything about DM’s either. I guess that’s why I couldn’t message you myself!

Out of curiousity, have you had your interview at Tri-I yet?

 

[ClimbsRox]

Hey yeah I don’t know anything about DM’s either. I guess that’s why I couldn’t message you myself!

Out of curiousity, have you had your interview at Tri-I yet?

Yes I have. Great school, awesome faculty, passionate leadership. I very much enjoyed my interview day. I don't have anything negative to say about them except that life in NYC is tough with a 39k stipend, as high as that is for MD/PhD programs.

 

[nycmstp]

Yes I have. Great school, awesome faculty, passionate leadership. I very much enjoyed my interview day. I don't have anything negative to say about them except that life in NYC is tough with a 39k stipend, as high as that is for MD/PhD programs.

Hah! You’re tellin’ me! Anyways, so happy for you and I hope the acceptances keep rolling your way! You deserve your top choice

 

[ClimbsRox]

Hah! You’re tellin’ me! Anyways, so happy for you and I hope the acceptances keep rolling your way! You deserve your top choice

Thanks. I did my undergrad in NYC. I am a bit reluctant to return after 60k in student loans with a full tuition scholarship.

 

[TheJooce]

Is UCLA still considering applicants for mstp??

They haven't rejected me yet!

 

[ExcitatorySynapse]

Has Tri-I sent out all of their IIs? Not that I have any particular hope, but I sent them an ITA about 2 weeks ago and never heard back. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Sometimes I really regret not making an e-mail specifically for med school application; would save some suffering.

 

[ExcitatorySynapse]

Do Columbia and Yale realistically ever interview international applicants? When I called them they encouraged me to apply but I feel like many top schools do that for the money. I am waiting for my PR card but it will likely not come before decisions are made. Any successful international MSTP students out there willing to PM me? Thank you kindly in advance

Yale has 1 international student listed and Columbia's PD told me in 2017 that 'we have a couple.'

 

[Lucca]

Do Columbia and Yale realistically ever interview international applicants? When I called them they encouraged me to apply but I feel like many top schools do that for the money. I am waiting for my PR card but it will likely not come before decisions are made. Any successful international MSTP students out there willing to PM me? Thank you kindly in advance

Yale def does. Met quite a few Canadians

 

[mega_]

I would say 39k in NYC is ok when your monthly rent is guaranteed for 8 years at 800-1200 and you use amazon pantry or/and costco. When I was comparing my options, 39k in NYC looked much better overall than lower stipends in New Haven/Boston (surprisingly expensive cities, where you also need a car much more so than in NYC) with no housing guaranteed after 1st year.

 

[Fencer]

Brief update after 2 working weeks since Monday 10/15 earliest acceptance deadline:
Total MD/PhD Applicants - 1711
Withdrew Before Acceptance - 46
Currently seeking a slot - 1665
Rejected (Reject, Prelim Rejection, Passive Withdrawal) - 498
Interviewed - 200 (most programs don't use this action)
Given at least one MD/PhD acceptance - 57
Withdrew after MD/PhD acceptance - 1
Currently with at least one MD/PhD acceptance - 56


DATA FROM PREVIOUS MD/PhD ADMISSIONS CYCLES
------------------------ Prelim. 2019 - 2018 - 2017 - 2016 - 2015 - 2014 - 2013
Withdraw After AC (WA) ........ 1 ......... 88 ..... 98 ... 111 ... 103 ... 120 ... 127
Matriculated (MA) ................. 0 ....... 672 ... 646 ... 649 ... 623 ... 626 .... 608
Deferral to later class (DF) ..... 0 ........ 29 ..... 32 .... 23 ...... 22 .... 29 ...... 25
AC,DF,EM,MA,RA,WA ......... 57 ...... 791 .. 778 .. 785 .. 749 .. 776 ... 763
Accepted (AC) ..................... 56 ....... - ....... - ........ - ....... - ....... - ........ -
Rescinded AC (RA) ................ 0 ........ 2 ....... 2 ....... 2 ....... 1 ...... 1 ........ 3
TOTAL APPLICANTS ......... 1711 .. 1832 .. 1824 .. 1903 .. 1856 .. 1853 .. 1891
% with at least 1 AC .......... 3% .... 43% .. 43% ... 41% ... 40% .. 42% ... 40%

 

[Artimis]

@Fencer by “rejected” do you mean having received at least 1 rejection or having received rejections from all schools they’ve applied to and are now out of the cycle?

 

[Fencer]

The status is assigned by the AMCAS server as the best status that an applicant has. Therefore, it means having all applications turning into a rejection. Sometimes, programs communicate those rejections later into the cycle (Dec/Jan). You must interview to be considered for an acceptance. I suspect that the pool of applicants interviewing (at least one interview by end of cycle) is about 850-1000. Historically, about 90-92% of my interviewed applicants get into a program during that cycle, and overwhelming majority >88% into a MD/PhD program. We do take some risks because we read the stories in each application evaluating holistically, but we have too many terrific applicants. Like most programs, we also think about fit prior to inviting an applicant.

 

[F4532]

They haven't rejected me yet!

Dang that feels great, do you know if they have been rejecting people continuously throughout the year? Your stats are ****en insane.

 

[Fencer]

This is normal for this time of year... We will get closer to 1850 by end of cycle. About 30 or so are going to be DF from prior years who then just add their application as a single school app.

 

[nakamarra]

This is normal for this time of year... We will get closer to 1850 by end of cycle. About 30 or so are going to be DF from prior years who then just add their application as a single school app.

Would it be possible for you to estimate the percentage of interview invite slots left for this cycle (given that every school has a different pace)?

 

[TheJooce]

Dang that feels great, do you know if they have been rejecting people continuously throughout the year? Your stats are ****en insane.

Doesn’t look they’ve rejected so many people compared to some other schools.

 

[Fencer]

Would it be possible for you to estimate the percentage of interview invite slots left for this cycle (given that every school has a different pace)?

Not really... Every school has its thing. However, it's almost the end of October. If you haven't received 5 or 6 invitations to interview, you need to add more schools. The three U Texas MSTPs have a deadline of Nov. 1 with relatively painless (Southwestern/Houston) or NO (San Antonio) secondaries.

Realistically, we have 12 weeks of interviews left in the cycle (three weeks in each Nov. and Dec., four weeks in Jan., and two weeks in Feb.).

FYI to Moderators and Owners:
The Cloudflare Ray utility made it so painful to edit that I considered quitting the forum. It kept blocking me as if I was posting malware code.

 

[kesh32111]

Too late to add more schools? No interviews yet... definitely a more mediocre applicant.

Also, anyone know when schools will pass on apps to the MD programs if not accepted to mdphd?

 

[Artimis]

Would the changes AAMC made to this cycle concerning the admissions process change the number of interview invites expected at this time(5-6) from that of previous years?

 

[Fencer]

My viewpoint is that the changes on the admissions process will not significantly impact the number of interview invites, but will make programs more cautious extending their acceptances (the number of their acceptances) as they have no way to predict potential enrollment. It will delay some acceptances, and I suspect that we will have a more active waitlist movement in late April and early May, when the domino effect will play itself. On April 15, applicants should reduce their acceptances to only 3 programs. As some top candidate selects among top MSTPs, mid-level MSTPs have an opening taking their best next candidate out of a less desirable program for that particular candidate, who then take an applicant from a non-MSTP program. On April 30, applicants should reduce their acceptances to only a single program (could remain on waitlists). Depending upon circumstances, programs can require candidates to select "plan to enroll" or "commit to enroll" starting at any time within 30 days from orientation/matriculation. For some MD/PhD programs with summer rotations that could be as early as May 1.

 

[F4532]

Not really... Every school has its thing. However, it's almost the end of October. If you haven't received 5 or 6 invitations to interview, you need to add more schools. The three U Texas MSTPs have a deadline of Nov. 1 with relatively painless (Southwestern/Houston) or NO (San Antonio) secondaries.

Realistically, we have 12 weeks of interviews left in the cycle (three weeks in each Nov. and Dec., four weeks in Jan., and two weeks in Feb.).

FYI to Moderators and Owners:
The Cloudflare Ray utility made it so painful to edit that I considered quitting the forum. It kept blocking me as if I was posting malware code.

Hey fencer, if I apply to your mstp program could I get a interview invite.

 

[Lucca]

Not really... Every school has its thing. However, it's almost the end of October. If you haven't received 5 or 6 invitations to interview, you need to add more schools. The three U Texas MSTPs have a deadline of Nov. 1 with relatively painless (Southwestern/Houston) or NO (San Antonio) secondaries.

Realistically, we have 12 weeks of interviews left in the cycle (three weeks in each Nov. and Dec., four weeks in Jan., and two weeks in Feb.).

FYI to Moderators and Owners:
The Cloudflare Ray utility made it so painful to edit that I considered quitting the forum. It kept blocking me as if I was posting malware code.

I’ll let Lee know about the problem

 

[Fencer]

Hey fencer, if I apply to your mstp program could I get a interview invite.

Nice try... ... I give feedback to some applicants, and it might not be what you wanted to hear. I do still have a little over a dozen interview slots but some invitations are going out later tonight. There are many truly quality applicants fighting for the last few slots.

An early applicant has a better chance... It pays to apply before AUGUST!

 

[F4532]

Nice try... ... I give feedback to some applicants, and it might not be what you wanted to hear. I do still have a little over a dozen interview slots but some invitations are going out later tonight. There are many truly quality applicants fighting for the last few slots.

An early applicant has a better chance... It pays to apply before AUGUST!

Alright, you don't even have to fund my MD Phd, literally just have to give me the opportunity to do it. hahahahah

 

[ExcitatorySynapse]

There are many truly quality applicants fighting for the last few slots.

 

[Housekeeping_Gene]

Just a (hopefully) hypothetical question, but if we were to receive an MD acceptance somewhere, but no MSTP/MD-PhD acceptances, is turning down the MD acceptance a black mark for future applications? I didn't really think about that when I checked the "please also consider me for MD program" box.

 

[ClimbsRox]

Just a (hopefully) hypothetical question, but if we were to receive an MD acceptance somewhere, but no MSTP/MD-PhD acceptances, is turning down the MD acceptance a black mark for future applications? I didn't really think about that when I checked the "please also consider me for MD program" box.

No. I know a current MS1 who did just that. She turned down an MD only acceptance to apply MSTP again. Of course its anecdotal, but with another year of research experience and a publication under their belt, they were accepted to 3+ programs the following cycle.

 

[confudidoeskimo]

Would now be an appropriate time to send schools letters of continued interest/updates? Specifically, there are several programs I applied to in July-August that have been sending out IIs, but I have yet to hear from them.

 

[Fencer]

Absolutely... it is now (to all schools who haven't rejected you) or never! Write it as an update with a submission to a poster for a conference or something alike. Most schools still have a few (or more) interview slots. As I indicated, there are only 12 weeks of interviews, and only about 8 of them have some interview slots available. Some schools have completed their selection, some will finish in 3-4 weeks, and for the most part by mid-December the scheduled interviews for January are all given. It will only then be cancellations...

 

[ExcitatorySynapse]

Absolutely... it is now (to all schools who haven't rejected you) or never! Write it as an update with a submission to a poster for a conference or something alike. Most schools still have a few (or more) interview slots. As I indicated, there are only 12 weeks of interviews, and only about 8 of them have some interview slots available. Some schools have completed their selection, some will finish in 3-4 weeks, and for the most part by mid-December the scheduled interviews for January are all given. It will only then be cancellations...

Can I say that we are submitting a paper or something soon? Or attending some conference? What if nothing exciting has happened?

 

[labster]

People that got SUNY Downstate IIs yesterday - have you heard back regarding date choice yet? I just responded directly to the email but now I'm wondering if I should have CC'd either of the two admissions emails provided as well...

 

[nakamarra]

People that got SUNY Downstate IIs yesterday - have you heard back regarding date choice yet? I just responded directly to the email but now I'm wondering if I should have CC'd either of the two admissions emails provided as well...

Also responded directly and have not received a response yet.

 

[Fencer]

Can I say that we are submitting a paper or something soon? Or attending some conference? What if nothing exciting has happened?

Sure... contact them.

 

[kiziltug97]

Hey folks,

So I'm an international student from Duke who is applying to MD/PhD programs. Since I'm not a citizen, I wasn't able to apply to a ton of schools, only 7-8 that are very competitive unfortunately. On top of that I applied very late (end of September). I know future doesn't look very bright for me

However, I was lucky enough to get MD/PhD and MD II from Harvard and MD only invite from Yale (MD/PhD rejected) so far (both happened last week). I was wondering the interview to acceptance convergence rates for internationals for these schools.

Lastly, at this point, how likely do you think that I'll get additional invites? My LizzyM is 81 and I have 2.5 years of research experience in 3 labs, with a total of 1800 hours research.

Here are the schools I applied:

Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Columbia, JHU, UPenn, UChicago, WUSTL

Thanks!

 

[ClinicianScientist]

Hey folks,

So I'm an international student from Duke who is applying to MD/PhD programs. Since I'm not a citizen, I wasn't able to apply to a ton of schools, only 7-8 that are very competitive unfortunately. On top of that I applied very late (end of September). I know future doesn't look very bright for me

However, I was lucky enough to get MD/PhD and MD II from Harvard and MD only invite from Yale (MD/PhD rejected) so far (both happened last week). I was wondering the interview to acceptance convergence rates for internationals for these schools.

Lastly, at this point, how likely do you think that I'll get additional invites? My LizzyM is 81 and I have 2.5 years of research experience in 3 labs, with a total of 1800 hours research.

Here are the schools I applied:

Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Columbia, JHU, UPenn, UChicago, WUSTL

Thanks!

I'm a Canadian MD/PhD applicant so feel free to PM me if you have any questions

 

[Maebea]

Hey folks,

So I'm an international student from Duke who is applying to MD/PhD programs. Since I'm not a citizen, I wasn't able to apply to a ton of schools, only 7-8 that are very competitive unfortunately. On top of that I applied very late (end of September). I know future doesn't look very bright for me

However, I was lucky enough to get MD/PhD and MD II from Harvard and MD only invite from Yale (MD/PhD rejected) so far (both happened last week). I was wondering the interview to acceptance convergence rates for internationals for these schools.

Lastly, at this point, how likely do you think that I'll get additional invites? My LizzyM is 81 and I have 2.5 years of research experience in 3 labs, with a total of 1800 hours research.

Here are the schools I applied:

Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Columbia, JHU, UPenn, UChicago, WUSTL

Thanks!

The late application might hurt your chances, but it ain't over until it's over. The fact that you got an invite from a highly competitive program is a good sign. Good luck!

 

[ExcitatorySynapse]

Sure... contact them.

I am dismally sorry for my thickness, but I'm just now sitting down to draft some emails and I feel like I literally have nothing to say and that the PD will just delete it, lol. During the time I applied, I started this position that I said I would be starting, banged my head against my keyboard 100x while trying to learn R, attended a conference (but did not present), and nothing else. I don't even know when the paper I'll be a middle author on will go out, it could be in 2 weeks, or it could be another 6 months if the PI decides he needs even more experiments. (This paper was supposed to be submitted in Summer 2017, btw!).

Will a letter without any real update still be ok/is it enough just to say how much you love the school and how your interests match up?

 

[hopefulmedstudent2014]

I am dismally sorry for my thickness, but I'm just now sitting down to draft some emails and I feel like I literally have nothing to say and that the PD will just delete it, lol. During the time I applied, I started this position that I said I would be starting, banged my head against my keyboard 100x while trying to learn R, attended a conference (but did not present), and nothing else. I don't even know when the paper I'll be a middle author on will go out, it could be in 2 weeks, or it could be another 6 months if the PI decides he needs even more experiments. (This paper was supposed to be submitted in Summer 2017, btw!).

Will a letter without any real update still be ok/is it enough just to say how much you love the school and how your interests match up?

I feel like sending an email with a quick overview of your CV & strengths and a few lines about why the school is a great fit for you will go a long way!

 

[marble2483]

Should we just submit letters of update through the school portal/admissions office email address? Or also to the program director?

 

[Fencer]

Email the PD and/or Program Coordinator for the program directly. Contact information should be available on each program's website.

Brief Update after 2019 MD/PhD admission actions from 11/01/18:
Total MD/PhD Applicants - 1728
Withdrew Before Acceptance - 43
Currently seeking a slot - 1685
Rejected (Reject, Prelim Rejection, Passive Withdrawal) - 525
Interviewed - 204 (most programs don't use this action)
Given at least one MD/PhD acceptance - 77
Withdrew after MD/PhD acceptance - 1
Currently with at least one MD/PhD acceptance - 76

As indicated in a prior post (link to post # 226 of this thread), I expect that by the end of the current cycle about 775-790 applicants will receive at least one MD/PhD acceptance. Therefore, less than 10% of those applicants have been selected as of yesterday. The "easily measurable" academic benchmarks of these 77 accepted applicants are:
MCAT - 516.5
CPBS Mean .. CPBS Std Dev
129.04 ______ 1.94
CARS Mean .. CARS Std Dev
128.29 ______ 2.17
BBFL Mean ... BBFL Std Dev
129.71 ______ 1.81
PSBB Mean .. PSBB Std Dev
129.42 ______ 1.91
GPA
Science GPA Mean ... BCPM GPA Std Dev
3.78 _______________ 0.18
AO GPA Mean AO ..... GPA Std Dev
3.84 _______________ 0.15
Total GPA Mean ....... Total GPA Std Dev
3.80 _______________ 0.16