*** 2018-2019 MD/PhD cycle - Questions, Comments, and other things ***

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evasive fish said:
Yeah, that's something interesting to think about... MD-PhD programs receive far less applications than MD-only, but it seems that MD-PhD have much smaller admissions committees as well. And it also seems to be something very variable between schools, as some schools may review MD-PhD apps exclusively through a dedicated adcom for those, while others may initially have the app pass through the regular MD adcom before reaching the MD-PhD one. Not sure how these differences will translate in variations in the app cycle, though... especially with the new traffic rules in the admissions process.
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I guess to answer that, you have to know what a review entails. Like, for elite undergrads, I knew they did stats filtering, then they had the regional officer consider apps and the ones he/she liked got presented to the adcom. On the SDN college equivalent, IIRC it was 15-20 minutes per file, so maybe 30 apps per day. I'm sure processing MD and MD/PhD apps takes a bit longer and maybe multiple reviewers are involved later, but WuSTL's website seems to suggest 3-5 business days for an initial review with 6-15 business days for processing overall with this flowchart. So I don't think it takes *that* long, but WuSTL also probably has a bigger adcom.

This process is definitely taking years off my life, either way. Need to get into meditation or something calming.

Edit @Maebea, that's also what I heard from my MD/PhD PI. He made fun of the pedestrian PS's he read for MD and said they mostly looked at stats but were more involved for MD/PhD.
 
kepler16b said:
What if you are accepted to a single MD/PhD program but ultimately decide that the research is not a good fit and apply again (with a presumably improved application)? Would that be a red flag?

I applied to a few schools rather blindly, but now I wish I had filtered by research first.
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It's possible to turn down an MD/PhD acceptance then successfully apply to other MD/PhD programs in a later cycle, but it's very unlikely and not advisable for the vast majority of applicants. You need a compelling reason for doing so, and it helps to have a dramatically different reapp. It works against you, though, and programs that rejected you post-interview the first time likely won't offer you a second interview.
 
Hi everyone! I have my first interview coming up in two weeks and it’s with one of my top choice programs. How is everyone prepping for interviews? I feel like I’m generally a decent interviewer but I’m getting pretty nervous as the date approaches. Would love any and all advice!

Thanks! 🙂
 
What do you guys think would be the best way to update schools on a change in my citizenship status? The obvious answer is to send an update in the format requested by each school (i.e., portal or email). However, since this is not a normal update, I am wondering if I should do anything differently.

Also, for schools like Stanford that do not allow updates until receiving an II, should I even send an update at all? Again, the only reason I am uncertain is because this isn't a typical update.

Thanks in advance for your opinions 🙂
 
Congrats... Register to vote! Regarding MD/PhD admissions, US citizenship vs US permanent residency does not change your eligibility as a trainee in NIH grants. It makes no difference. Therefore, this is an update with relatively less consequence for MD/PhD applications than obtaining US permanent residency, and truly it makes very little difference in admissions as the two categories should be treated equally for admission purposes. This is something to report to institutions at interviews, but you certainly could use it as an excuse to contact them via email to report the change of status (even Stanford).
 
Fencer said:
Congrats... Register to vote! Regarding MD/PhD admissions, US citizenship vs US permanent residency does not change your eligibility as a trainee in NIH grants. It makes no difference. Therefore, this is an update with relatively less consequence for MD/PhD applications than obtaining US permanent residency, and truly it makes very little difference in admissions as the two categories should be treated equally for admission purposes. This is something to report to institutions at interviews, but you certainly could use it as an excuse to contact them via email to report the change of status (even Stanford).
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Thanks, Fencer! I registered yesterday right after earning the right 🙂
Good to hear about its relevance (or lack thereof) for MSTP admissions. I appreciate the input! I am, as you suggested, tempted to use this as an excuse to reach out to the schools I have yet to hear from, and will probably do just that. Thanks again!
 
^ Congrats, looptheloop! I wish my PR card would come sooner, but c'est la vie.
For anyone who applied to Boston University's program, I have a question: when they say we can just write "refer to our AMCAS personal statement" for the 4000 character essay on the secondary application, does that include our why md/phd and research experiences essay?
I'm tempted to just go for it if that's permissible, I'm just unbelievably tired at this point.
 
Celme123 said:
Hi everyone! I have my first interview coming up in two weeks and it’s with one of my top choice programs. How is everyone prepping for interviews? I feel like I’m generally a decent interviewer but I’m getting pretty nervous as the date approaches. Would love any and all advice!

Thanks! 🙂
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Just been reading online resources about common questions to expect and making sure that I have good outlines for them.

My first interview has an MMI component though, and I’ve never prepped for anything like that. I feel like there is a little overlap with CASPer question content, but I’m not sure how much the in-person component or the possibility of working with a partner will change things. Would love to know what you or anyone else is doing for this!
 
TheJooce said:
Just been reading online resources about common questions to expect and making sure that I have good outlines for them.

My first interview has an MMI component though, and I’ve never prepped for anything like that. I feel like there is a little overlap with CASPer question content, but I’m not sure how much the in-person component or the possibility of working with a partner will change things. Would love to know what you or anyone else is doing for this!
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It's literally an in-person CASPer. MMI is so chill honestly don't even worry about it - at my last interview, the current students were legit laughing at us for being nervous.
 
makemeadoctordoctordoctor said:
It's literally an in-person CASPer. MMI is so chill honestly don't even worry about it - at my last interview, the current students were legit laughing at us for being nervous.
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Haha, that’s good to hear. I wasn’t too worried, but that definitely takes the pressure off!
 
makemeadoctordoctordoctor said:
Declining an MD acceptance blacklists you from applying MD ever again??? Is there more info on this somewhere?
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I have a friend who applied MD/PhD, received an MD only acceptance, but no MD/PhD acceptances, and declined. She spent another year in the lab, published a paper, re-applied next cycle, and received 5+ acceptances. I am sure each situation is different, but there is evidence of people matriculating after declining an offer. This isn't a direct answer to your question, but maybe helpful.
 
Question for Stanford applicants: How did you approach the scholarly concentration essay? Would the graduate years of the MSTP encompass that part of the med school curriculum?
 
theredspecial said:
Question for Stanford applicants: How did you approach the scholarly concentration essay? Would the graduate years of the MSTP encompass that part of the med school curriculum?
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Yes, their website says so if I remember. But you could write a short just-in-case part in the situation where you only get accepted MD and you would still want to attend.
 
theredspecial said:
Question for Stanford applicants: How did you approach the scholarly concentration essay? Would the graduate years of the MSTP encompass that part of the med school curriculum?
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Yes, and i treated the question as a way of explaining why i thought an MD/PhD at Stanford was a good fit for me
 
Fencer said:
Congrats... Register to vote! Regarding MD/PhD admissions, US citizenship vs US permanent residency does not change your eligibility as a trainee in NIH grants. It makes no difference. Therefore, this is an update with relatively less consequence for MD/PhD applications than obtaining US permanent residency, and truly it makes very little difference in admissions as the two categories should be treated equally for admission purposes. This is something to report to institutions at interviews, but you certainly could use it as an excuse to contact them via email to report the change of status (even Stanford).
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Follow-up question: I just submitted a first-author manuscript. I do not think it is appropriate to send publication updates until after acceptance. However, I would like to send the citizenship update now to the schools I have yet to hear from. How bad would it look to update again about the paper if/when it gets accepted? I do not want to be a nuisance. On the other hand, I absolutely want to show continued productivity. FWIW, this is not my first pub so it is possibly less critical than if it were, but is probably a worthy update nonetheless (upon acceptance).
 
Has anyone heard back from UMaryland yet, if they applied? I'm currently working as a CRC in their Neurology Department and it's my top choice.
 
levodopa24 said:
Has anyone heard back from UMaryland yet, if they applied? I'm currently working as a CRC in their Neurology Department and it's my top choice.
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My fiancee and I are both waiting to hear from UMaryland as well. I don’t think they released any invites yet, so don’t worry 🙂
 
ClinicianScientist said:
My fiancee and I are both waiting to hear from UMaryland as well. I don’t think they released any invites yet, so don’t worry 🙂
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Thank you, sweet lord. I'm torn because I've been in a five-year relationship that is serious, but not at the fiance level, and it's been eating at me since I got my first II at another school (he's not willing to relocate.)
 
levodopa24 said:
Thank you, sweet lord. I'm torn because I've been in a five-year relationship that is serious, but not at the fiance level, and it's been eating at me since I got my first II at another school (he's not willing to relocate.)
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I completely understand! I really hope you and your significant other end up together at your top choice 🙂. So far for the most part my fiancee and I have gotten MSTP interviews at schools in different states 🙁.
 
ClinicianScientist said:
I completely understand! I really hope you and your significant other end up together at your top choice 🙂. So far for the most part my fiancee and I have gotten MSTP interviews at schools in different states 🙁.
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Oh no! I'm so sorry. I'm sure you guys will figure out what is best for you when it comes down to it!
 
For interviews where you have family in the area but the school is still paying for a hotel, is it expected that you should stay with family? As much as I would love to stay with my folks, part of me thinks the hotel option would be better for limiting distractions/getting in the zone for the big day. Also, the school is offering two nights in the hotel. Is it rude to only stay one?
 
lilymatisse said:
For interviews where you have family in the area but the school is still paying for a hotel, is it expected that you should stay with family? As much as I would love to stay with my folks, part of me thinks the hotel option would be better for limiting distractions/getting in the zone for the big day. Also, the school is offering two nights in the hotel. Is it rude to only stay one?
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I think you may be way overthinking this, lol. I would stay in the hotel because, as you said, it will minimize distractions. If you only need one day, stay the one day. Otherwise, stay both days. I truly don't think they will care. Have a good time! 🙂
 
I was offered an interview that conflicts with another one. What is the likelihood of a school giving me an alternate date?
 
looptheloop said:
I have had to reschedule 3 or 4 so far and have had no problems yet. Besides, only thing you can do is ask. 🙂
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Thanks, I may just be irrationally worried, especially since many of the other schools gave 2-3 dates to choose from whereas this one only had one date.
 
lilymatisse said:
Thanks @looptheloop for helping us vent our irrational worries!
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Had a similar question for my local program. They actually encouraged me to stay at the hotel because it makes things easier logistically for them, and we get a better sense of our fellow applicants if we're around them for a good amount of time. I'm sure your family would understand.
 
ClinicianScientist said:
Are there are any MSTP programs besides UPenn that are friendly towards couples? So far my fiancee and I have mostly gotten invites to different schools and we’re equally as competitive applicants. I should mention we’re both traditional applicants from a top Canadian undergrad so maybe programs dont want people from the same school unless it’s a top notch US school?
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There are no programs that are unfriendly towards couples. You will likely have more success at both of you being offered admission at schools like Penn, Yale, WashU, etc., that have larger classes than at schools with smaller entering classes simply because there are 20 or more available slots. Have you let programs that have offered interview that you have a fiancee applying? I would be surprised if they would not at least consider an interview for him/her.
 
@Fencer last year you were able to post periodic updates on the number of applicants/accepted throughout the cycle, would you be able to post that information this year or did AAMC change that too?

Also, can anyone speculate on the % of interview invites that have gone out by now? In past year it seems like about half go out by the end of September. Does anyone know how the change in traffic rules have affected the pace of IIs?
 
Sorry, but too much AC Odyssey 😉 There is less information on this cycle. Aggregate numbers are still available. Here is the scoop...

2019 AMCAS Cycle - as 10/3/18.
TOTAL MD/PhD APPLICANTS - 1575
Accepted - 0
For those who have taken the new MCAT (1558): the average MCAT scores are 128.0/127.3/128.4/128.4 (512) and the ScGPA 3.63 and cGPA 3.70. Of interest, some of us (PDs) are using the early admission action of INTERVIEW leading to 175 applicants selected for the category of IN as their best indicator. For those in that category, the MCAT scores are 129.3/128.6/129.7/129.7 (517), ScGPA 3.80 and cGPA 3.82.
 
For those of us who had to submit applications later, i.e towards the end of September (I had some serious family events), how long do you think is an acceptable time to wait before panicking?
Really regretting not setting up a med school application specific e-mail....
 
Fencer said:
Of interest, some of us (PDs) are using the early admission action of INTERVIEW leading to 175 applicants selected for the category of IN as their best indicator.
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Thanks for the update! Can you explain more about the quoted sentence above? I haven't heard some of these terms before.
 
Admission officers who use AP Tools, the utility to manage AMCAS, are able to assign the "admission action" of INTERVIEW to highlight that a particular applicant has been selected for interviewed or has interviewed. There is also a series of tabs for "application status" that could be managed. There are several MD/PhD programs (more every year) that use these admission actions in the new software "WebAdMIT". Doing that highlights applicants in the AMCAS management system providing information about their best admission action status (i.e.: MA > AC > AL > IN > RS > RJ). MA=matriculation, AC=accepted, AL=alternate or waitlist, IN=interview, RS=Request secondary, RJ= Rejection. There are other alternate admission status like: WB (withdraw before AC), WA (withdraw after AC), PR (preliminary RJ), PW (passive withdrawal-the unresponsive applicant), etc. Although these admission action statuses have been around for several years, the new software and/or familiarity of program officers have led to using them more frequently than in prior years.

NOW WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO APPLICANTS - as I indicated in another thread - "When should you start worrying about not having enough Interviews?" Let's think of what happens when you submit a secondary application:
  • Moving your application to the committee members takes 1-2 weeks AFTER completion of secondary. This step might take months, if the program waits until a critical group of applications arrive for review.
  • Application review by AC Member is very reviewer specific (do I have a grant, paper, conference, etc this week) but takes 1-3 weeks.
  • Program officer receives decisions and scramble to decide who to offer and when they have slots - 1 week
  • Thus, it is about 2-6 weeks from completion of secondary for initial decision: Invite, Hold, or Reject. If you are Hold or Invite, periodic emails to Program Administration (~8 weeks) of interest might be helpful to score an invite and/or acceptance.
Fencer said:
Christmas would be too late to make changes such as adding more schools. The majority of MSTP deadlines for primary application are about October 15 or November 1. If you do not get at least 3-4 invitations to interview by October 1, you should consider adding more schools, and contacting every school who has not rejected you with an update/interest email. To be comfortable that things will work, you need to aim for 8-12 interviews. That should give you 2-6 acceptances.
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Oct. 1 = Oct. 7 (this weekend).... There is no reason to do more than 10-12 interviews. How many dates (not attempts to score a reach, actual dates/interviews) does it take you to establish a relationship with a significant other?

PM me if you want to discuss your specific case. There are too many variables. This weekend, I will be traveling to UC Davis and would be inviting some people to dinner Saturday night. PM me. I will miss playing AC Odyssey this weekend. I got to 100% synch in AC Origins but took me months... mental floss!!
 
Last edited:
Thank you for the advice Fencer! Just two pedantic followups to your suggestion to email programs we haven't heard back from to: some schools indicate how they want to receive updates (eg via portal), for others that dont specify should we direct these emails to the program administrative staff or actual program directors? And say we interview somewhere and really love it, would it make sense to contact that program afterwards to let them know that they're our top choice?

Thanks!
 
This is a new era! Communication between programs and applicants/interviewees has been emphasized in the updated traffic rules. You could cc the PDs but also include the Administrative staff. How often? My rule of thumb is 8 weeks or so (+/- 2). In a few weeks (2-4), many programs will start offering the early acceptances. Programs would love to hear from accepted applicants every few weeks. Some of you are EXTREMELY competitive (just look at the quality of institutions that repeatedly are offering them interviews, to say a few, alphabetically: bork, ClimbsRox, confudidoeskimo, lifeofmedicine, looptheloop, Lucca, MehKMeh, Purple Squid, TheJooce, and many OTHERS). This is a very long journey, enjoy the journey itself. Beginning on Oct. 15, programs are able to offer acceptances. These are legal tenders than change your interview process of future interviews... once you have an acceptance on hand, PLEASE cancel interviews (giving others a chance) to programs that you feel are lower in YOUR own personal ranking. If you already know that you are not going to a program, don't collect acceptances but do the right thing and withdraw from an acceptance. Between Oct. 15 and Feb. 19, applicant voices are the only information that we want to hear (or we will have). We are no longer able to know other details in the national system...
 
Does it look bad to withdraw an application before interview/acceptance? I applied to a school but I'm not sure if I would go there even if it was the only school that accepted me and I don't want to have an acceptance that I decline on my record if I need to apply again next round.
 
idkhelp said:
Does it look bad to withdraw an application before interview/acceptance? I applied to a school but I'm not sure if I would go there even if it was the only school that accepted me and I don't want to have an acceptance that I decline on my record if I need to apply again next round.
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It seems like you aren't thrilled about this school in general, but I'd be hesitant to withdraw before an interview offer was made unless you have very strong negative opinions about the school. Interviews give you a chance to experience the environment and you should approach them with an open mind. I know of people who went to interviews with schools that weren't their top choices and the interview made them like the school more. If you get an interview offer, attend, and then hate it, you should definitely withdraw. It wouldn't hurt you in the long run.
 
So...I just got a II from Stonybrook (yay) and they give you the option of doing an MD-only interview in addition to MSTP. The catch is that it could hurt your chances if you're not as good an MD candidate.

I have years of experience working at suicide hotlines, and several mental health focused volunteer jobs involving clinical interaction (originally wanted to go into clinical psych) but only a few short stints with hospital volunteering or shadowing.

Does anyone know how this might be viewed? Will not requesting the regular MD interview reflect poorly on me somehow?
 
This might be a stupid question, but do MD/PhD programs ever give out acceptances before the official start date (Oct. 15 this year I think)?
 
DaGhost said:
This might be a stupid question, but do MD/PhD programs ever give out acceptances before the official start date (Oct. 15 this year I think)?
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I don't think they can?
 
I've been lurking for a while but I just made an account to ask this. I applied to 30 schools, complete at most by mid August. I've been very lucky, and right now I have 10 interviews and no rejections or holds. However, I'm realizing I over-applied and wasn't selective enough with my school list. Five of my interviews are to schools I'd love to go to (several of which are top 10 or 20) and the others are schools that I'm not crazy about or are in less desirable locations. I'm applying with a wife and kids so this is a really important factor for me.

Would it be a bad idea to start turning down interviews at some of the schools I'm not interested in in the hopes that I'll get 3-5 more interviews at schools I'm more interested over the rest of the cycle? How predictive is the number of interviews I have right now of the total number I'll get? LizzyM 75 for reference.
 
drbeener said:
I've been lurking for a while but I just made an account to ask this. I applied to 30 schools, complete at most by mid August. I've been very lucky, and right now I have 10 interviews and no rejections or holds. However, I'm realizing I over-applied and wasn't selective enough with my school list. Five of my interviews are to schools I'd love to go to (several of which are top 10 or 20) and the others are schools that I'm not crazy about or are in less desirable locations. I'm applying with a wife and kids so this is a really important factor for me.

Would it be a bad idea to start turning down interviews at some of the schools I'm not interested in in the hopes that I'll get 3-5 more interviews at schools I'm more interested over the rest of the cycle? How predictive is the number of interviews I have right now of the total number I'll get? LizzyM 75 for reference.
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The consensus around here seems to be that, if you have 10 interviews already, you are likely in good shape to be accepted as well as receive more IIs down the line (of course, nobody can truly predict how things will unfold even considering the signs you're seeing of early success).

Have you gone to any of these interviews yet? Schools are allowed to send acceptances starting October 15, so there's a chance you'll hear back from some schools by the end of the month if you interviewed early (late August to mid-September). You might consider waiting until you have an acceptance in hand to stop attending interviews. You can always schedule the interviews now and cancel them later (and PLEASE DO cancel them as soon as you know you won't be attending, as this opens up slots for others).

IMO, this is too important to take risks. If there's even a chance that you might end up wanting to go to those schools, I would wait until you have an acceptance in hand before crossing them off. The single exception to this would be if you absolutely know you will not attend a certain school under any circumstance. In that case, yeah, don't go to that interview (what's the point?).
 
I second the above, I wouldn't personally decline any interviews yet (too risky imo! Take all the shots you can get) but you can reschedule them for later in the cycle if they are lower on your list of school preferences. Then when you get an acceptance you can re-evaluate which interviews to actually attend.
 
First, Congratulations! If you are able to describe your science during your interviews, you will be having choices of several acceptances. There is always a risk, even when crossing a street. I would consider triaging two of the least desirable offers (for you/your family). As you receive additional invitations, you will be triaging (or replacing interviews with new offers) too. You should not be interviewing to more than 10-12 interviews.

Realistically, most of the October and first two weeks of November interview slots have been offered. Offers typically are given 4-6 weeks prior to the interview. November also has the Thanksgiving week as a slow one. December only has 3 weeks of interviewing for the most part. Jan/Feb has only 5-6 weeks of interviews. Thus, we are talking of about 10 weeks of interview slots that have not been offered as of yet for this cycle (Nov/Dec/Jan/Feb), plus 5 weeks that have been offered in Oct/Nov. I know of programs who only have cancellation (future) slots. My own program has about 20% of interview slots not selected as of yet. Some schools have not started their interviews but have selected their first round. Look at the Google Calendar for interviews and revisits.

Once again your target for interviews is something between 8-12 interviews to receive 3-6 acceptances. As of now, you should have at least 3-4 interviews with at least a dozen schools pending final review. Review should take at least 2-6 weeks after completion of secondaries.

PM me if you need to discuss specific strategy to add schools.
 
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