2018 Match List

[Rekt]

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No. There are some so-called “established DO schools” where third year exams are P/F Osteopathic shelfs (i.e. play buddy-buddy with residents and sleaze your way through). Name me an MD school that doesn’t use NBME shelf exam scores as part of determining honors grades. That’s such a huge part of third year. Also, the admissions standards are still significantly higher overall and as much as every DO student wants to say they’re the ones who fell through the cracks, the majority just didn’t get into an MD school and past potential predicts future potential. That said, I’ve seen LECOM students at interviews. Not sure if that’s due to size or actual reputation/quality making itself known to ACGME PDs. I’m not against taking DOs with great scores, grades, research but I’m not at the point where I think PDs should say hey, this DO school’s been around for 90 years so it’s better than this “less established” MD school that just has its first class matching.

The shelves aren't pass or fail. They're graded based on national performance by standard deviations, i.e. the same way that NBME shelves are. The schools are given a raw score and then each particular school handles the score in whatever way they want. My schools grades them A-F.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

For the record, at least one DO school that I know of (and it’s established) does graded core rotations rather than P/F. It’s a classic A/B/C scale, but it’s based on evals, shelf scores, and performance during didactics and other required parts of the curriculum. Not saying this is all DO schools or even the norm, but some DO schools do have higher standards. I recognize that DO education needs some improvement (which I believe I’ve been vocal about in other threads), but we’re not witch doctors clunking bones together either.

My school does this, and I believe it is common practice in DO schools. Honestly I think its annoying and wish it was just straight pass/fail like many (if not most MD's). My faculty certainly use it as an excuse to wax poetic on their pet topics again while assigning massive amounts of busy work.

Indeed, if this is the standard of 'good programs' I would say a far higher percentage of DO programs are good than MD.

 

[DocWinter]

My school as well does graded rotations with grade based upon feedback, comments, preceptor grade and didactics. I believe this is fairly common.

And as fair and accurate as this might be as a grading system, it is equally as biased/subjective. One preceptor never gives higher than a B, another gives A as participation trophy. And don't even get me started on how some preceptors look favorably on a cute face, a skirt, or whatever their fancy. Absolutely can play a role in grading.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

My school as well does graded rotations with grade based upon feedback, comments, preceptor grade and didactics. I believe this is fairly common.

And as fair and accurate as this might be as a grading system, it is equally as biased/subjective. One preceptor never gives higher than a B, another gives A as participation trophy. And don't even get me started on how some preceptors look favorably on a cute face, a skirt, or whatever their fancy. Absolutely can play a role in grading.

This is why I hate perceptor based grading, even tho I recognize the it as a necessary evil, the rubrics are usually way too subjective. If anything the preceptor portion should be pass/fail. I am sure we all know of 'that guy' who the top grade is B unless your a cute girl etc.

 

[thestudiousmeathead]

My school as well does graded rotations with grade based upon feedback, comments, preceptor grade and didactics. I believe this is fairly common.

And as fair and accurate as this might be as a grading system, it is equally as biased/subjective. One preceptor never gives higher than a B, another gives A as participation trophy. And don't even get me started on how some preceptors look favorably on a cute face, a skirt, or whatever their fancy. Absolutely can play a role in grading.

Since I'm pretty sure from seeing your previous posts that your school is where I will be starting this summer, when/if I make it to OMS3, would it behoove me to invest in some skirts? #Glutes4Grades

 

[DocWinter]

Since I'm pretty sure from seeing your previous posts that your school is where I will be starting this summer, when/if I make it to OMS3, would it behoove me to invest in some skirts? #Glutes4Grades

Haha... I'm sure these are universal complains. But yes, try showing some leg Schwarzenegger.

 

[235009]

Good thing @MeatTornado isn't around to turn this into an MD vs DO pissing contest and ruin the thread. This forum has become so much more civilized and on topic now that he's gone! 300+ posts exclusively about the match lists...what a remarkable achievement that was unimaginable with that agitator @MeatTornado around!

 

[docbsb2015]

HE HAS RISEN!!!!

 

[DNC127]

Good thing @MeatTornado isn't around to turn this into an MD vs DO pissing contest and ruin the thread. This forum has become so much more civilized and on topic now that he's gone! 300+ posts exclusively about the match lists...what a remarkable achievement that was unimaginable with that agitator @MeatTornado around!

Besides @failedatlife posting whether he matched or not, this was next on the list of things I was hoping to happen 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Good thing @MeatTornado isn't around to turn this into an MD vs DO pissing contest and ruin the thread. This forum has become so much more civilized and on topic now that he's gone! 300+ posts exclusively about the match lists...what a remarkable achievement that was unimaginable with that agitator @MeatTornado around!

Bro ai am carrying your torch

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Bro ai am carrying your torch

Nah bro, not even close. See MT would deal simply in facts and utlimately was rather helpful when it was all said and done even if people didn’t like what he said. You simply will spout nonsense and make repeated straw man arguments that have nothing to do with what’s being discussed.

 

[Neopolymath]

Good thing @MeatTornado isn't around to turn this into an MD vs DO pissing contest and ruin the thread. This forum has become so much more civilized and on topic now that he's gone! 300+ posts exclusively about the match lists...what a remarkable achievement that was unimaginable with that agitator @MeatTornado around!

I'm a godless heathen but even I can appreciate the irony of an Easter weekend post by you hahahaha.

 

[Scrubs101]

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Nah bro, not even close. See MT would deal simply in facts and utlimately was rather helpful when it was all said and done even if people didn’t like what he said. You simply will spout nonsense and make repeated straw man arguments that have nothing to do with what’s being discussed.

Why don’t you find a couple quotes of mine that are NOT factual? I am waiting.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Why don’t you find a couple quotes of mine that are NOT factual? I am waiting.

Lol, nice strawman to provide an excellent example of my statement.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Lol, nice strawman to provide an excellent example of my statement.

I take care to make sure all my posts here are factual. I routinely go back and edit my posts to check for accuracy. When you make a negative claim like that, the burden is on you to show it.

Come on, just quote a few posts.

 

[Chibucks15]

cmon we made it so far with having a productive thread...

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Come on, just quote a few posts.

Lol for starters just about any post you’ve made in any thread involving DOs and general surgery. I’m not going to quote entire threads and derail this thread anymore so you can go re-read them if you want to.

Your arguments always go like this

Poster X: discussion point Z
You: arguing against discussion point B
Everyone else: no one said that, we are talking about discussion point Z
You and sab: arguing discussion point B

You also use Goro as an appeal to authority for DO matching. Goro has extremely valuable advice in many realms, and even provides good anecdote views on matching from one school, but he is not an authority on DO matching.

 

[TheWhiteWolfMD]

Any updates on KCU?

 

[Scrubs101]

Only 2018 data i can find from MSU so far is how the Canadians matched

(Really confusing to read as its not split by year, only matches you can tell are 2018 are ones like ACGME psych. Cleveland Clinic and DMC/WSU.)

http://www.com.msu.edu/Students/Career_Guidance/Match Data/Canadian Match Data 2015-2018.pdf

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Only 2018 data i can find from MSU so far is how the Canadians matched

(Really confusing to read as its not split by year, only matches you can tell are 2018 are ones like ACGME psych. Cleveland Clinic and DMC/WSU.)

http://www.com.msu.edu/Students/Career_Guidance/Match Data/Canadian Match Data 2015-2018.pdf

Lol what even is this? I wonder who thought this formatting would be helpful

 

[DNC127]

Lol what even is this? I wonder who thought this formatting would be helpful

probably was Nassar's idea.

 

[Scrubs101]

Lol what even is this? I wonder who thought this formatting would be helpful

Think its for potential canadian pre-meds since MSU has 30 or so spots reserved for canadians each year.

probably was Nassar's idea.

Chill bro. The Nassar **** isnt something to make jokes about.

 

[SLC]

Good thing @MeatTornado isn't around to turn this into an MD vs DO pissing contest and ruin the thread. This forum has become so much more civilized and on topic now that he's gone! 300+ posts exclusively about the match lists...what a remarkable achievement that was unimaginable with that agitator @MeatTornado around!

Agree 100%

 

[DNC127]

Think its for potential canadian pre-meds since MSU has 30 or so spots reserved for canadians each year.



Chill bro. The Nassar **** isnt something to make jokes about.

My bad.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Lol for starters just about any post you’ve made in any thread involving DOs and general surgery. I’m not going to quote entire threads and derail this thread anymore so you can go re-read them if you want to.

Your arguments always go like this

Poster X: discussion point Z
You: arguing against discussion point B
Everyone else: no one said that, we are talking about discussion point Z
You and sab: arguing discussion point B

You also use Goro as an appeal to authority for DO matching. Goro has extremely valuable advice in many realms, and even provides good anecdote views on matching from one school, but he is not an authority on DO matching.

Sorry to hear that my arguments are ALWAYS like that. Care to quote them? You have to prove your statement.

 

[SLC]

Sorry to hear that my arguments are ALWAYS like that. Care to quote them? You have to prove your statement.

Starve him out guys...ignore him and he goes away.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Starve him out guys...ignore him and he goes away.

Lol. You can’t do that. I won’t go away. You’ll see people with my belief every step of your career.

Good luck.

 

[DrMcLovin]

Lol. You can’t do that. I won’t go away. You’ll see people with my belief every step of your career.

Good luck.

This is a strange comment. I’ll never understand why you come to the DO forums.

Just like we will “see people with your belief every step of the way,” you will also have people with my belief every step of the way concerning radiology/interventional radiology. The difference is you don’t see me on the rads forum stating my opinion.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

This is a strange comment. I’ll never understand why you come to the DO forums.

Just like we will “see people with your belief every step of the way,” you will also have people with my belief every step of the way concerning radiology/interventional radiology. The difference is you don’t see me on the rads forum stating my opinion.

Because my statements are factual, relent, and contribute to the discussion at hand. It remains to be seen whether you can do the same for rads

 

[sab3156]

Because my statements are factual, relent, and contribute to the discussion at hand. It remains to be seen whether you can do the same for rads

People just like to hear what makes them happy and comfortable. I guess that is what the real issue is.

 

[ortnakas]

No official match list from LECOM out yet. From what I’ve seen so far it’s a solid mix of ACGME (including gen surg, EM, diagnostic rads, anesthesia, university IM, university med/peds, and even one rad onc) plus the (not that SDN cares) AOA matches which include a lot of ortho, plus a lot of dual accredited programs.

HE HAS RISEN!!!!

He has risen indeed.

cmon we made it so far with having a productive thread...

Or, at the minimum, a not-fighting thread. This thing’s never going to stay on topic but could we at least not rehash @AnatomyGrey12 vs @DrfluffyMD again?

@MeatTornado while I think you’re often overly negative your posts were always well thought out and respectful and I miss having you around (I don’t miss threads derailing into you vs @SLC though so I’m hoping we don’t rehash that either).

 

[DrMcLovin]

Because my statements are factual, relent, and contribute to the discussion at hand. It remains to be seen whether you can do the same for rads

I’ve had to correct you multiple times in the past on the D.O forums about match statistics and other things you were teaching us D.O’s about.

Your fascination with presenting the facts about D.O’s is just strange to me. I don't know of any D.O's in the carib forums presenting facts to them. They are next in SDN pecking order right?

Maybe I’ll order extra imaging next year so you guys can stay busy in the dark reading rooms.

 

[DrMcLovin]

People just like to hear what makes them happy and comfortable. I guess that is what the real issue is.

Exactly, not comfortable matching into an orthopedic surgery program. Let people enjoy their matches, everyone worked hard for them.

 

[sab3156]

Exactly, not comfortable matching into an orthopedic surgery program. Let people enjoy their matches, everyone worked hard for them.

I didn't even read this thread very much, so I'm not sure about the context of what you are saying. All I know is that people on SDN always have had major visceral reactions whenever opposing ideas are presented to them. I think in real life (face to face), these same people wouldn't be so violent when speaking to each other.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I didn't even read this thread very much, so I'm not sure about the context of what you are saying. All I know is that people on SDN always have had major visceral reactions whenever opposing ideas are presented to them. I think in real life (face to face), these same people wouldn't be so violent when speaking to each other.

We wouldn't be as honest either, that would be the trade off.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I didn't even read this thread very much, so I'm not sure about the context of what you are saying. All I know is that people on SDN always have had major visceral reactions whenever opposing ideas are presented to them. I think in real life (face to face), these same people wouldn't be so violent when speaking to each other.

You had a visceral reaction to statistical inference a few months ago.

 

[sab3156]

You had a visceral reaction to statistical inference a few months ago.

That's not what I am talking about. Look at some of the literally psychotic ad hominem attacks, cursing, and personal vendettas in this forum, all stemming from someone saying something the other didn't find easy to digest. Not sure why people continually break the forum rules and get away with it.

We wouldn't be as honest either, that would be the trade off.

So you can only be fully honest while being violent and emotional? This doesn't really make any sense.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

That's not what I am talking about. Look at some of the literally psychotic ad hominem attacks, cursing, and personal vendettas in this forum, all stemming from someone saying something the other didn't find easy to digest. Not sure why people continually break the forum rules and get away with it.



So you can only be honest while being violent and emotional? This doesn't really make any sense.

What are you even talking about?

 

[sab3156]

Sorry to hear that my arguments are ALWAYS like that. Care to quote them? You have to prove your statement.

Do you remember when this person you are talking would be quoted as saying something and would deny it altogether? SDN is an imaginary world.

 

[Yhorm the Giant]

SDN is an imaginary world.

My new favorite quote

 

[IslandStyle808]

So you can only be fully honest while being violent and emotional? This doesn't really make any sense.

Your comment doesn't make sense, I interpreted violent and emotional as a metaphor/exaggeration (i.e. unless you meant something else).

The trade off I'm referring to is loss honesty due to loss anonymity. You won't see people be 100% honest about their opinions in front of your face. These are the same people you work with and they have to "play house" with you since they are your colleagues in residency or medical school. When SDNers have anonymity, they feel more free to share their opinions. Unfortunately, there will be some members that will show you an ugly side to their personalities. This is the price you pay in the pursuit of truth.

I am more than willing to pay that price, if it means having the greatest knowledge of the medical world.

 

[sab3156]

I am more than willing to pay that price, if it means having the greatest knowledge of the medical world.

You're making a big assumption that everyone here actually knows what they are talking about.

 

[SLC]

You're making a big assumption that everyone here actually knows what they are talking about.

Who does and doesn’t? I’m guessing you know, right?

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Maybe I’ll order extra imaging next year so you guys can stay busy in the dark reading rooms.

I won’t be reading imaging next year. In any case, care to refresh my memories on those “corrections”?

 

[sab3156]

Who does and doesn’t? I’m guessing you know, right?

I mean, I would think when residents and experienced faculty members say things which directly contradict what several people on this site keep saying, it becomes pretty obvious who has been reading too much of the internet and needs to get back to reality.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Do you remember when this person you are talking would be quoted as saying something and would deny it altogether? SDN is an imaginary world.

I mean, I would think when residents and experienced faculty members say things which directly contradict what several people on this site keep saying

Again, what are you even talking about? Stop talking in such vague generalities. Also in case anyone needs a good laugh go look at how I described the conversations that @DrfluffyMD gets involved in and tell me it isn't spot on to how this thread has devolved.

Pretty sure he just said it was taken out of context if we are thinking of the same thread.

Oh right I remember that. He took one line out of a large post I made on a completely different topic and tried to make it look like I was denying that I had said something completely different.

 

[sab3156]

Pretty sure he just said it was taken out of context if we are thinking of the same thread. Definitely did not deny it all together.

It started off as denial and then ended up as "taken out of context", when there was a screenshot presented.

 

[DrMcLovin]

I won’t be reading imaging next year. In any case, care to refresh my memories on those “corrections”?

Cool. Sure, see attached.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Cool. Sure, see attached.

Ah, I misspoke. You were correct, it was for those who applied to the ACGME match. Only approximately 50% of DOs who applied to ACGME gen surg matched that year.

Thank you for reminding us about this valuable statistic.