[2019-2020] Emergency Medicine Rank Order List Thread

[Apollyon]

All this talk of Prisma Midlands was throwing me off. I don't know who owns what. I was in Greenville over 10 years ago, and GHS became Prisma. USC-Columbia was/is Palmetto Health, which is, now, also Prisma at the same time (or so it seems). USC-Columbia is a well-regarded program. For me, the biggest difference is that Wake is in NC, and Prisma in SC. As far as states go, nearly night and day.

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[Listen2Savage]

i'd definitely rather live in Greenville

 

[deleted547339]

Any thoughts on Prisma Health Midlands (USC) vs. Wake Forest from anybody? Both will be toward the very top of my list. Geographic proximity close to family roughly equal. Both are obviously well established and well known in the SE.

Both have very good reputations. You will be competent graduating from either. I think Wake (probably) has a marginally stronger reputation, but both are very good. I think the biggest determinant should probably be which ever you liked more and location preference. Again, you’re deciding between two good programs; it’s not like you’re picking between Carolinas/LAC/Hennepin/Cinci/Indy and HCA Community Hospital or Team Health Regional.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

Any thoughts on Prisma Health Midlands (USC) vs. Wake Forest from anybody? Both will be toward the very top of my list. Geographic proximity close to family roughly equal. Both are obviously well established and well known in the SE.

I think Wake is more established, and seems to have a very academic bent. I felt the residents there were very happy, and the faculty seemed very relaxed and supportive. The Wake brand is a bit more well known among the lay-public

I didn’t interview at Prisma Midlands (I did at the other prisma though) - my understanding is the prisma residencies are a bit more community focused. The term “TriBred” was thrown around a lot.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

i'd definitely rather live in Greenville

He’s referring to Prisma-Midlands, which is in Columbia SC. Prisma-Upstate is in Greenville, SC.

You’d be right though, Greenville is an awesome little mountain town with a great hospital system.

 

[medhopeful82]

Both great, I feel very different in approach (but happy residents at either). Midlands is more county, super busy / high acuity, thrown in, resident-run. Wake Forest I felt more a sense of graduated responsibility, bedside teaching, very strong academics, research opportunities. Columbia actually a great place to live, medium-size city, Winston-Salem a small college town, but upcoming and very low COL and easy living. Can't go wrong with either!

Agreed both are great, strong programs with different feels as you described... however speaking of city size Columbia (133k) has roughly 1/2 the population as Winston-Salem (245k) so I think your assessment of city size and which is the college town is a bit off.

 

[takeurmeds02]

Not to derail but I'm glad we're on this side of Step 1 P/F

 

[Listen2Savage]

Not to derail but I'm glad we're on this side of Step 1 P/F

dude this shyt is such weak sauce

i dont know why it pisses me off so much but it does

 

[RottieLife]

dude this shyt is such weak sauce

i dont know why it pisses me off so much but it does

Dude I'm jealous! I could have allocated hundred of hours of study time toward a social life and still passed. So jealous. Instead, I studied my ass off to get a high score

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

I feel like for EM it really won’t change much. Except for a few “Doximity” programs, the vast majority of EM programs don’t put a ton of weight in step 1. The speciality moved to a SLOE-centric (tm) system long ago and that will largely insulate EM from the worst of the changes. May need to use a few more screens like geography and stuff.

There are other fields, like ortho, where step 1 scores have become a pissing contest. Our home ortho PD is very open about how he doesn’t even open apps that have less than a 250. straight into the trash. The PDs like to compare then at national conferences and brag about how high their average is. Personally I think that’s an abuse of the system and what led the USMLE to change.

 

[mancub]

I feel like for EM it really won’t change much. Except for a few “Doximity” programs, the vast majority of EM programs don’t put a ton of weight in step 1. The speciality moved to a SLOE-centric (tm) system long ago and that will largely insulate EM from the worst of the changes. May need to use a few more screens like geography and stuff.

I fully agree except...if you work backwards Step1 is still one of the big gatekeepers to securing solid subi's (respected programs/early months). My step score got me in the door at solid institutions then I did the work to get great sloes. I had no geography ties to the places I rotated and don't think a CV alone would of secured a spot.

Feeling lucky I dodged this bullet.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

I fully agree except...if you work backwards Step1 is still one of the big gatekeepers to securing solid subi's (respected programs/early months). My step score got me in the door at solid institutions then I did the work to get great sloes. I had no geography ties to the places I rotated and don't think a CV alone would of secured a spot.

Feeling lucky I dodged this bullet.

Really? Most places I looked at just did first come first serve.

I got rejected from the 9 Cali SubIs I applied to despite have a strong step 1, because I’m from the other side of the country with no ties.

 

[mancub]

Really? Most places I looked at just did first come first serve.

I got rejected from the 9 Cali SubIs I applied to despite have a strong step 1, because I’m from the other side of the country with no ties.

Yeah lots of kids at my school got rejection emails saying some version of “your application wasn’t competitive enough”
Granted this is at a DO school so maybe that’s a factor

 

[longtimelurker2015]

One of my aways had a strict STEP1 cutoff, and my understanding is, most competitive programs do too. This will become more of an issue for the ortho gunners that need to do multiple aways, and may not even be ranked by the same programs they rotate at if once they get their STEP2 score back, it's not high enough. As @The Knife & Gun Club said, with the SLOE's, I think we're more insulated from this abrupt change. Still doesn't sit well with me how quickly they're implementing this, and feel most schools' advising offices are gonna scramble for at least a few years to readjust and provide valid advice to future applicants to all specialties.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

Yeah lots of kids at my school got rejection emails saying some version of “your application wasn’t competitive enough”
Granted this is at a DO school so maybe that’s a factor

You’ve got a good point there. Among the DOs this change + unified match could have some serious negative repercussions. I wonder if they’ll do away with comlex or keep it to use as a scoring system unique to DOs.

If I were an IMG right now I’d be crapping my pants, because they just lost the one key yard-stick by which they can get noticed.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Between the fake lists and the spreadsheet being hijacked, this rank list thread sure dried up quickly. Thought for sure a bunch more rank lists would get posted since lists are due in a few days. Are people just waiting until after the deadline?

 

[BoardingDoc]

Between the fake lists and the spreadsheet being hijacked, this rank list thread sure dried up quickly. Thought for sure a bunch more rank lists would get posted since lists are due in a few days. Are people just waiting until after the deadline?

Probably. Every year people hold off on posting out of some fear that someone out there is going through all the anonymously posted lists trying to figure out who posted them.

Reality: no one does this because no one cares.

Regardless, I'm sure there will be a flood of post deadline submissions.

 

[Listen2Savage]

You’ve got a good point there. Among the DOs this change + unified match could have some serious negative repercussions. I wonder if they’ll do away with comlex or keep it to use as a scoring system unique to DOs.

If I were an IMG right now I’d be crapping my pants, because they just lost the one key yard-stick by which they can get noticed.

yup, as an IMG this p/f system is gonna suck hard

 

[takeurmeds02]

One of my aways had a strict STEP1 cutoff, and my understanding is, most competitive programs do too. This will become more of an issue for the ortho gunners that need to do multiple aways, and may not even be ranked by the same programs they rotate at if once they get their STEP2 score back, it's not high enough. As @The Knife & Gun Club said, with the SLOE's, I think we're more insulated from this abrupt change. Still doesn't sit well with me how quickly they're implementing this, and feel most schools' advising offices are gonna scramble for at least a few years to readjust and provide valid advice to future applicants to all specialties.

Well I'm not sure how insulated we'll be because to get SLOEs you need to do aways which are moderately competitive and often have step cutoffs themselves =/

The implications of this change reach further than we realize.

 

[mancub]

Between the fake lists and the spreadsheet being hijacked, this rank list thread sure dried up quickly. Thought for sure a bunch more rank lists would get posted since lists are due in a few days. Are people just waiting until after the deadline?

Yeah, I’m waiting to post until after submission. Not sure why it just feels better haha

 

[Mushdoc]

There were much better discussions about the different programs, how to choose a program, interview strategies and rank lists before the move to an excel sheet a few years ago. You’ll notice the residency specific pages are no longer updated and the rank lists have become much less informative.

 

[Cheesehead94]

Between the fake lists and the spreadsheet being hijacked, this rank list thread sure dried up quickly. Thought for sure a bunch more rank lists would get posted since lists are due in a few days. Are people just waiting until after the deadline?

Or people are indecisive like me and still changing their list every day

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

Problem with the spreadsheet is it’s truly anonymous and anyone can delete anything to try and outgun the other applicants.

At least on SDN you can ban someone for racial slurs and can’t delete someone else’s content.

 

[BoardingDoc]

Problem with the spreadsheet is it’s truly anonymous and anyone can delete anything to try and outgun the other applicants.

At least on SDN you can ban someone for racial slurs and can’t delete someone else’s content.

I just looked at the spreadsheet, it looks like the actual rank order list tab is locked and just autofilled from form entries (as it should be). All those other tabs are certainly a free for all, but it would be trivially simple to just have those populated by a form as well. It would also be easy to set it up so that all submitted content goes through a moderator first, though this would obviously require someone to, you know, moderate.

 

[doggydog]

Abnormally quiet this year.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

I’m submitting mine after the 26th

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

Also, to the person who called me out on the spreadsheet and said they knew me in real life and that I’m a terrible person...who hurt you?

 

[Listen2Savage]

Also, to the person who called me out on the spreadsheet and said they knew me in real life and that I’m a terrible person...who hurt you?

dude are you for real

370 × 335

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

dude are you for real

370 × 335

Gunners gonna gun any way they Know how.

Subtly planting the seed of insecurity in your competition early is the ultimate long-game gunning.

 

[Listen2Savage]

Gunners gonna gun any way they Know how.

Subtly planting the seed of insecurity in your competition early is the ultimate long-game gunning.

jesus

 

[EM_Hopeful]

Posted anonymously via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Board Scores: <200/220's (USMLE)
EM Rotations: Honors/Honors
AOA: No
Med School Region: Southeast
Anything else that made you more competitive:
Top 10% and Top 1/3 SLOE, research with publications, early involvement in EM with leadership roles

Main considerations in making this ROL: location, fit, quality of training

1) GA- Emory
Grady is amazing. High volume, great pathology, county with academic backing of Emory. Strong reputation, high quality training. Large class size (20), I'm not sure what effects this has. They work VERY hard here. Lots of autonomy and great relationship with their attendings from what I saw on my rotation. The PD is awesome and I love the female representation in their leadership.

2) IL- U of Illinois College of Medicine Chicago
My favorite interview of the season. Loved the mission of the program. Great diversity within the program. Training at 4 sites, which I don't love or hate, but it provides great pathology and variety. Great vibe from residents. Chicago is an awesome city. I would definitely be happy here

3) FL- USF Tampa
I really like the city. Strong ultrasound curriculum. Residents seem very happy. Seems like a good fit for me. Good COL in Tampa and I felt excited about this being a new change of scenery for me.

4) SC- Prisma Health Upstate Greenville
I was surprised by how much I loved this program. PD has so much energy and she is definitely taking this program to great places. Great ICU experience. High volume ED, high acuity. Perks like meal stipend and free parking. Greenville is a cool and up and coming city. Residents were cool. Program provided a hotel for interview day.

5) GA- Wellstar Kennestone Regional(Marietta)
Large volume community site. No ortho or surgery residency, so residents get tons of procedures. Amazing new ED opening spring 2020. Still working a few things out as a new program. Perks like concierge service and meal stipend. Have to go to Augusta for PICU month which is a negative for me

6) IL- Advocate Healthcare (Oaklawn Chicago)
I feel I would get quality training here. Training at 1 site. Mix of county and community feel. Didn't feel like I would fit in with the residents. The interview lunch was interesting - the residents pretty much mingled amoungst themselves.

7) GA- Medical College of Georgia (Augusta)
I really like this program and the curriculum. They have every fellowship you can think of. Academic program, but patients have a county feel to it. Augusta isn't a great city, which is why it's lower on my list.

8) FL- UCF HCA GME Gainsville
Community program. Didn't love it or hate it. PD is very down to earth and she has a great relationship with her residents. HCA but it wasn't mentioned on interview day what effects this has. Have to go to Orlando for peds month which is a negative for me.

9) NC- Vidant Health/East Carolina University Program
Large volume, high acuity. Loved the energy of the PD. Strong EMS curriculum. Location dropped it low on my list. Greenville is in the middle of no where. Program coordinator had very bad communication, which did not leave a good impression. Only 3 residents showed up to pre-interview social. They provided a hotel and shuttle for the interview, which was super nice.

10) WV- West Virginia University Program
Strong academic program. Residents are very close knit and it has a family atmosphere in the program. Lack of diversity is alarming. Nothing to do in Morgrantown. ED volume at main site is not that high ~60k/year

Anything else to add?
I applied to 55 programs and only 3 year programs. SLOEs are KING. I had a successful interview season with subpar step scores. My SLOEs were repeatedly mentioned on the interview trail as well as other aspects of my application. I'm praying for the best on match day.

Programs Whose Interviews You Declined:
LSU Shreveport (the cost was not worth it, I knew it would be ranked low)



Note from @Stephanopolous : To anyone who would like to contribute or change anything, you can also PM me your ROL or any other information that was left off your submission on the spreadsheet. Your anonymity will be maintained.

Wow, this list definitely gives me some hope for next year’s cycle with what my current step 1 score is. Can strong SLOEs really outweigh bad board scores?

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

Wow, this list definitely gives me some hope for next year’s cycle with what my current step 1 score is. Can strong SLOEs really outweigh bad board scores?

My home PD says “I like the first number to be a 2..” with regards to step 1.

If you can get good SLOEs there’s programs out there that will definitely give you a shot especially if you do respectable on step 2

 

[takeurmeds02]

Friendly reminder rank list final submission is Wednesday (tomorrow), 9 PM Eastern Standard Time.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Cant wait for more rank lists to be posted!

 

[Rekt]

Friendly reminder rank list final submission is Wednesday (tomorrow), 9 PM Eastern Standard Time.

Followed by a completely unnecessary month long wait.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

Winter is coming

 

[Listen2Savage]

did anyone else call the NRMP people today to make sure everything was kosher?

lol

the lady was really nice

 

[Listen2Savage]

Followed by a completely unnecessary month long wait.

 

[minor.groove]

Followed by a completely unnecessary month long wait.

And just to make life more stressful, match is 5 days later this year than last so that’s a basically a week less to find housing and move...

 

[gamerEMdoc]

And just to make life more stressful, match is 5 days later this year than last so that’s a basically a week less to find housing and move...

I have never understood why computer algorithms or electronically graded tests take so long to get the results back. Shouldn’t this be instantaneous? Like why does it take six weeks to get board results back. I get that there can be testing irregularities, and questions can get thrown out, but still, for an instantaneously scored exam, why 6 weeks? And for the match, why does it take more than a day? It’s an algorithm, it should spit out the results immediately. I’ve really never understood this.

 

[IMitis]

I have never understood why computer algorithms or electronically graded tests take so long to get the results back. Shouldn’t this be instantaneous? Like why does it take six weeks to get board results back. I get that there can be testing irregularities, and questions can get thrown out, but still, for an instantaneously scored exam, why 6 weeks? And for the match, why does it take more than a day? It’s an algorithm, it should spit out the results immediately. I’ve really never understood this.

What Happens Between Rank Order List Deadline And Match Day?

Between the Rank Order List Certification Deadline and Match Day, the NRMP conducts a rigorous review of Match data, including:

• Assessing and confirming the integrity of the data
• Conducting a final verification of applicants’ credentials
• Withdrawing applicants who are ineligible for the Match
• Transferring the data from the R3® system to the matching algorithm module, rechecking the data, processing the algorithm, and transferring data back into the R3 system
• Verifying the results of a Match and transferring the data into the NRMP databases
• Verifying applicants’ credentials for SOAP® participation in the Main Residency Match®
• Preparing 50,000 individual Match Week reports for Main Residency Match applicants, program directors, and medical schools

These steps, all completed in a few weeks, ensure the accuracy of Match results.

Copied from the NRMP website

Help & Support

Our team is here to help. Get in touch if you can’t find what you’re looking for.

www.nrmp.org

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Right, I've read that before, but I don't fully get it. Why do you need to check the integrity of the data? Its a computer program, computers have more integrity with running algorithms than the humans checking them. Do they hand check it? That would be impossible. Re-run it the algorithm? If so, that would take a few seconds. As for verifying if applicants are eligible for the match, I feel like that should PROBABLY be done when registering for the match? Transferring data from one database to another? Shouldn't a program be able to do that?

In the end I would assume its the verifying of the credentials for every applicant that takes awhile? Because if they find someone ineligible, then you'd have to rerun the algorithm because of the chain of effects that would cause.

Definitely writing all the reports, graphs, data packets they send out over the year after to show all the match results, trends, etc all takes time but that comes out later after the results are released.

 

[deleted436726]

The new Aultman Hospital program just withdrew from the match according to the NRMP ROL website. Anyone know what happened???

 

[attitudeofgratitude]

Shocking to me that they wouldn't at least email applicants and tell them. The ACGME site still has them listed as Initial Accreditation. Not even "with warning" like some other new programs.

The new Aultman Hospital program just withdrew from the match according to the NRMP ROL website. Anyone know what happened???

 

[Listen2Savage]

LAST MINUTE CHANGES OR SHOULD I LET IT RIDE PEOPLE?????????????????????

 

[attitudeofgratitude]

YOLO!

LAST MINUTE CHANGES OR SHOULD I LET IT RIDE PEOPLE?????????????????????

 

[littlejuan]

let it ride. don't look at it anymore. make sure it's signed and stop.

 

[boolin_1]

everyone make new accounts and post your rank lists. they won't find figure it out I promise

 

[Rekt]

The new Aultman Hospital program just withdrew from the match according to the NRMP ROL website. Anyone know what happened???

Good.

 

[attitudeofgratitude]

Good.

yea it's wonderful people got screwed last minute and they won't be going to a residency at a trauma II with 90k visits per year, that is run by an SDG with a boatload of teaching experience.

w/es good reminder that their ain't no pity in this game.