*** 2019-2020 MD/PhD cycle - Questions, Comments, and other things ***

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Is the MD-PhD Cycle generally faster than MD? That is, does SDN's Thanksgiving Rule (No IIs before thanksgiving -> Consider Reapplication) apply, or is the deadline faster?

I would think that the cycle is slower, as a lot of schools haven’t even started sending invites for MD PhD yet.

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Is the MD-PhD Cycle generally faster than MD? That is, does SDN's Thanksgiving Rule (No IIs before thanksgiving -> Consider Reapplication) apply, or is the deadline faster?

Even if the cycle is slower - if you have no IIs by Thanksgiving...you should be concerned
 
By 09/15, you should be having about 2-3 invites. If you don't, you either selected too many late schools (some Ivies) or you do not have enough "true match" schools and must add at least 5-10 more. By Thanksgiving's day, you should be aiming for 6-8 invites. If you wait until then, it does not give you enough ability to adapt during the present cycle...
 
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Hey guys! I'm looking for some feedback on MSTPs attitudes toward ITA emails. Are they generally in alignment with the MD program's policy? If not, are they generally less receptive to them? Bonus points if anyone has any specific insight for Einstein (I will be in NY for another interview and would love to incorporate this interview as well if they are interested in me as a candidate). This is particularly important to me as I'm nearing completion of a project and would love to condense my travels as much as possible so I can keep things moving in the lab. Thanks :)
 
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@eccequambonum I don't know if if there's a consolidated list, but for the schools I'm interviewing at most schools list the number of people they interview and at least the size of the class. So you can probably assume that slightly more people are accepted than the size of the class.

For example UW says they interview 60 people and their program size is like 10-12. So I'd guess like 15 get in aka 25%

You can also always check AMCAS for their stats. P sure there's a spreadsheet with each school and the size of their class for the last application cycle.

admits to matriculants is usually about 2X so for a program like UW it would probably be more like 20 As for 10 spots, or 20/60 ~ 1/3. Id say that's fairly typical. Only a couple of programs have yields that are close to 100%.
 
admits to matriculants is usually about 2X so for a program like UW it would probably be more like 20 As for 10 spots, or 20/60 ~ 1/3. Id say that's fairly typical. Only a couple of programs have yields that are close to 100%.
Do you happen to know programs with high yield (close to 100%)?
 
No, they can’t. They’d only know if you tell them.

The one exception (which is pretty commonsense) is if you apply MD and MD-PhD at the same school - they will likely know that you have applied to the other.
 
Im having a problem- i need to turn down an interview bc A. I applied not knowing much about the program and I don’t actually have much interest and B. I have another interview im more interested in that i can only do on the day of the interview i want to cancel


How do i politely turn down an interview ive already said yes to but now have changed my mind?
 
Im having a problem- i need to turn down an interview bc A. I applied not knowing much about the program and I don’t actually have much interest and B. I have another interview im more interested in that i can only do on the day of the interview i want to cancel


How do i politely turn down an interview ive already said yes to but now have changed my mind?

IMO, just send an email as soon as possible so they have time to arrange for another interviewee to fill the spot. I don't think it's necessary to disclose precisely why you are turning the interview down. Simply state that you no longer wish to interview at the program, do not want to be considered further (or ask if they can reschedule the interview if you are still interested), and thank them for their consideration of your application.
 
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By 09/15, you should be having about 2-3 invites. If you don't, you either selected too many late schools (some Ivies) or you do not have enough "true match" schools and must add at least 5-10 more. By Thanksgiving's day, you should be aiming for 6-8 invites. If you wait until then, it does not give you enough ability to adapt during the present cycle...
And here I am with 0 interviews :(, though I only got my last letter of rec last week...
 
And here I am with 0 interviews :(, though I only got my last letter of rec last week...

I'm in the same boat! I got my last letter of rec 8/21 but submitted mostly in early August - still haven't heard anything (besides a couple Rs, lol).

My impression from the II thread (and hope) is that committees are still mostly working through the apps completed in July/early August.
 
I'm in the same boat! I got my last letter of rec 8/21 but submitted mostly in early August - still haven't heard anything (besides a couple Rs, lol).

My impression from the II thread (and hope) is that committees are still mostly working through the apps completed in July/early August.


The concern on my end is that they give out the lions share of their interviews to the early side of the pile, making bar much higher for II for apps complete late Aug/early Sept
 
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Hi everyone. There is a benefit on completing early. For future applicants, take note. By mid-Sept., about half of the interview slots are already given. However, some programs are just beginning their process at this time. Overall, it takes 3-4 weeks (and up to 6 weeks) for programs to review applications and make an initial determination. In most places, all or the great majority of LORs and your secondary application are necessary to start the AdCom review. In many places, applicants are sorted into 3 or 4 boxes:
  • Invite to Interview
  • High Hold / Hold for re-review in a few weeks (looking to compare them to the late applicants)
  • Hold for MCAT re-take results (Sept. 4, 17, Oct. 1, 15)
  • Preliminary rejection
In some programs, all applications are reviewed, but in others only those above some benchmark cut-offs (for example: MCAT > 505 or Science GPA > 3.10). I personally read all applications to my program, but most places is a team effort. When I indicated that by mid-September (around Sept. 15-17), you should aim for 2-3 interviews, I am acknowledging that some successful applicants completed their secondaries in the last week of August and might be able to catch on after the 3-6 week AdCom review. What matters is scoring interviews. Success rate for interviews is between 10-40%. If you want to have 3 choices, you need 8-12 interviews. In the end, you only keep a single acceptance. Here is data from the past 2 cycles from successful MD/PhD matriculants with MD/PhD acceptances:
# of MD/PhD acceptances
2019
2018
2019
2018
1​
313​
302​
40%​
39%​
2​
156​
163​
20%​
21%​
3​
96​
113​
12%​
14%​
4​
76​
77​
10%​
10%​
5​
50​
46​
6%​
6%​
6​
36​
27​
5%​
3%​
 
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What is the max number of interviews recommended? I never imagined being in this position, but I have 10 interviews already and can't schedule many more because of conflicts. I am thinking of dropping at least 2 schools that I am least interested in.
 
I wouldn't schedule more than 12 interviews. If you are a stellar applicant, you might get 6 or more acceptances. I have known applicants who attended up to 18-20 interviews but it was useless for them as they truly lose track of programs, and unfortunately use the interview slots that might be helpful to others. With 8-10 MD/PhD interviews, you have almost complete statistical certainty that you will join the MD/PhD class (unless you make the same mistake presenting yourself in every interview). You should be learning from your interviews and typically perform better in the next one. I have seen people who are using an interview in my program clearly as practice, criticizing our city and/or program when meeting our students. That is a no-no.... Treat a program that is interviewing you as you would like to be treated by them.
 
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Does anyone know if sending in an application update (a pub was accepted) will bump your application down on the cue? I sent one in in late August. I was mostly complete mid-late July/early August and have only heard from three schools (1 R, 1 II, 1 hold)...womp womp womp
 
Does anyone know if sending in an application update (a pub was accepted) will bump your application down on the cue? I sent one in in late August. I was mostly complete mid-late July/early August and have only heard from three schools (1 R, 1 II, 1 hold)...womp womp womp
I am by no means an expert (so anyone please correct me if I'm wrong), but I would be really surprised if it bumped your application down. The benefit of an update would be offset by being moved to the bottom of the pile, and would be a big disincentive for applicants to update schools, which wouldn't be good for either side.
 
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Hello,

Would programs view an applicant unfavorably if they request a different interview date? I received an interview today, but it is the day after another interview I have scheduled. I could make it to the interview, but I would arrive in the A.M. on interview day (6 hour flight and I would have to leave in the evening)

Thanks!
 
Hello,

Would programs view an applicant unfavorably if they request a different interview date? I received an interview today, but it is the day after another interview I have scheduled. I could make it to the interview, but I would arrive in the A.M. on interview day (6 hour flight and I would have to leave in the evening)

Thanks!

I’ve had to reschedule almost every one of my interviews. You just ask for another date and they’ll usually give you one.

I usually check the published dates on their website or the dates on the MSTP Interview calendar and then send the dates I’m available in the email.
 
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I get annoyed when that happens. Whether correct or not, I read it as the applicants having less enthusiasm for my program. I will usually allow the reschedule, unless I feel that it will be difficult to fill the open slot due to time constraints. In those cases, rather than commit a future slot to an applicant who I think is less interested in my program, I will offer it to someone who seems to be more enthusiastic about interviewing here.
 
For anyone who's maybe been through it or is involved with MSTP admissions,

I'm currently struggling to figure out how many interviews I should be going on. I've gotten a number of different interviews, most of them in the top 20, but because of how selective they are and how late I'll hear admissions decisions I'm thinking about the number of schools I should go interview with.

I was thinking about 10, but having just gone on my first one I'm not sure if I can handle missing that many days of school. So I was thinking about dropping that number down to 8. Wasn't sure if anyone had any experience/advise about this.

@Fencer @Maebea
 
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For anyone who's maybe been through it or is involved with MSTP admissions,

I'm currently struggling to figure out how many interviews I should be going on. I've gotten a number of different interviews, most of them in the top 20, but because of how selective they are and how late I'll hear admissions decisions I'm thinking about the number of schools I should go interview with.

I was thinking about 10, but having just gone on my first one I'm not sure if I can handle missing that many days of school. So I was thinking about dropping that number down to 8. Wasn't sure if anyone had any experience/advise about this.

@Fencer @Maebea
I'm in the same boat and have the same question.
 
For anyone who's maybe been through it or is involved with MSTP admissions,

I'm currently struggling to figure out how many interviews I should be going on. I've gotten a number of different interviews, most of them in the top 20, but because of how selective they are and how late I'll hear admissions decisions I'm thinking about the number of schools I should go interview with.

I was thinking about 10, but having just gone on my first one I'm not sure if I can handle missing that many days of school. So I was thinking about dropping that number down to 8. Wasn't sure if anyone had any experience/advise about this.

@Fencer @Maebea

I'm also in a similar position - my approach is to plan to go on every interview I've been offered so far, and then if I am lucky enough to receive an earlier acceptance, to start withdrawing from some schools depending on where I get accepted at rolling schools.

Obviously, this plan relies on me actually getting an acceptance earlier rather than later (which is a nebulous prospect in and of itself), but to me I can't justify not going to an offered interview if I don't yet have a guarantee that I'll be matriculating next year.
 
There are multiple variables. Even with top 20 schools, you are looking at independent statistical events with a 20-40% probability. The problem is that they are not completely independent because "you and the rest of the cohort" become better interviewees with practice. Some people will never interview well due to personality or other issues. In general, 6-8 interviews should get you at least a couple of choices but the range will be 0-8. In general, I recommend not to exceed 10-12 interviews. You can triage interviews particularly later in the cycle, and definitively after receiving an early acceptance. The earliest MD/PhD acceptances as per traffic rules begin on October 15. As soon as you make that decision, withdraw from a scheduled interview. It is a professional courtesy to programs and your peers. For some students, that MD/PhD program might be their dream school for a diversity of reasons and you are holding a slot that you no longer are interested in. PM me if you want to more openly want to discuss your choices.
 
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It is a good problem to have, but I understand your dilemma. I would be loathe to let any interview spots go until I had an acceptance. Unless you suspect that you would not interview well (and there are a few who do bomb every interview), you might be able to jettison some interviews; but which ones? Those at the hyper-competitive places? Those at less-competitive, but less-desirable places?

My best advice would be to push some interviews at your personally less-desirable schools to later in the season in the hopes of getting an acceptance (or more) from the schools that practice rolling admissions or make decisions early (like Tri-I). If you get an acceptance to your liking, you can cancel the later dates. I must admit that I am not thrilled when applicants do this to my program (someone just responded with an interview offer to ask if they defer their interview to late-January), but I get it.
 
It is a good problem to have, but I understand your dilemma. I would be loathe to let any interview spots go until I had an acceptance. Unless you suspect that you would not interview well (and there are a few who do bomb every interview), you might be able to jettison some interviews; but which ones? Those at the hyper-competitive places? Those at less-competitive, but less-desirable places?

My best advice would be to push some interviews at your personally less-desirable schools to later in the season in the hopes of getting an acceptance (or more) from the schools that practice rolling admissions or make decisions early (like Tri-I). If you get an acceptance to your liking, you can cancel the later dates. I must admit that I am not thrilled when applicants do this to my program (someone just responded with an interview offer to ask if they defer their interview to late-January), but I get it.

Just a logistical question: do you consider all reschedules at this point for later dates to push off for interviews that are more desirable? Just curious because at this point the soonest date I can schedule is actually January since other schools offered interviews earlier in the season.
 
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hey, anyone md/phd interview at indiana? did they pay for flight/accommodation? i know they don’t for md but i want to check for md/phd.
 
Just a logistical question: do you consider all reschedules at this point for later dates to push off for interviews that are more desirable? Just curious because at this point the soonest date I can schedule is actually January since other schools offered interviews earlier in the season.
It is really just speculation on our part; rarely do applicants tell us the reason for requesting another date. What really burns is when they cancel the January interview a few days in advance and we cannot schedule another applicant to take the spot. Not only do they cause us to have an unfilled spot, but they deny a fellow applicant the opportunity to interview at a program that might have been their top choice.

I will issue the first plea of this cycle: when you know that you are no longer interested in a program, withdraw immediately. Do not wait to get an invitation to interview, do not wait to get an acceptance, do not wait for the second look weekend, do not wait until May 1st. While it may be gratifying to rack up a lot of acceptances and have programs pay you a lot of attention, you jamming up the works and are screwing your fellow applicants. This is not directed at you in particular, Elephant, but to the individuals out there who will have multiple acceptances and will hold most of them to the end of the cycle. Back when the AAMC allowed us to see an accepted applicant's other offers, I would know who these people were and I would suggest that they decline our offer sooner rather than later. Sometimes they did, but more often they would hold out until the deadline and then send a generic email telling my how difficult the decision had been (though they did not attend the second look weekend or initiate any contact with us), and that they hoped we could offer the position to someone who would find our program a better fit (I would have been able to offer the position to that poor sod back in February if you had declined once you got into your dream school).

Sorry for the rant; I'm off my meds today.
 
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It is really just speculation on our part; rarely do applicants tell us the reason for requesting another date. What really burns is when they cancel the January interview a few days in advance and we cannot schedule another applicant to take the spot. Not only do they cause us to have an unfilled spot, but they deny a fellow applicant the opportunity to interview at a program that might have been their top choice.

I will issue the first plea of this cycle: when you know that you are no longer interested in a program, withdraw immediately. Do not wait to get an invitation to interview, do not wait to get an acceptance, do not wait for the second look weekend, do not wait until May 1st. While it may be gratifying to rack up a lot of acceptances and have programs pay you a lot of attention, you jamming up the works and are screwing your fellow applicants. This is not directed at you in particular, Elephant, but to the individuals out there who will have multiple acceptances and will hold most of them to the end of the cycle. Back when the AAMC allowed us to see an accepted applicant's other offers, I would know who these people were and I would suggest that they decline our offer sooner rather than later. Sometimes they did, but more often they would hold out until the deadline and then send a generic email telling my how difficult the decision had been (though they did not attend the second look weekend or initiate any contact with us), and that they hoped we could offer the position to someone who would find our program a better fit (I would have been able to offer the position to that poor sod back in February if you had declined once you got into your dream school).

Sorry for the rant; I'm off my meds today.

100% agree.
 
Could I ask for a little clarification on some numbers that have been stated on SDN?

There have been a few mentions of the number of interviews that an applicant "should" have (to feel comfortable with?) by 9/15 or later in September. For example, Fencer stated previously in this thread that one should hope for 2-3 interviews by 9/15. Recently, an additional post in a different thread suggested that the goal should be 4-5 interviews by 9/24. My question is regarding what these numbers suggest. Do 4-5 interviews by 9/24 imply that an applicant is competitive enough to receive more interviews later, when schools start sending out more because other interviewees are withdrawing? Or is it simply that 4-5 interviews are needed for one acceptance, assuming that one is average at interviewing?

Thank you very much in advance for this clarification! I appreciate all the advice that is provided on SDN, and the dedication of the posters to making sure this process is as transparent as possible.
 
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I think we are all just ballparking answers here as there is not much in the way of real data to go on. I believe that Fencer's point is that by 3 months after AMCAS started verifying information (i.e., the end of September), applicants should start to have some interview invites. Programs have been sending out invites since late July, so you should expect to have some invites by now if you are going to get any at all this cycle. There are a number of caveats to this: you submitted your secondary applications late, say after Sept 1; you only applied to Harvard, UCSF, Stanford and Hopkins; you only applied to schools that start interviewing in December etc. The AAMC used to give us data on the number of MD-PhD applicants who received interviews back in the day. My recollection is that the cascade went something like this: 1,500 MD/PhD applicants => 700 interviewees => 550 students.
 
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You only need one program to accept you. The problem is that only 20-50% of interviewees will ever be accepted at a given program. If you are choosing highly competitive programs with only 20% acceptees, then how many will be needed to land one acceptance. If you are doing less competitive, might be 2-3 is enough to feel good for getting one acceptance. Here is another issue... From submitting primary to AdCom review, it might take 4-6 weeks. If you submit today, getting a decision in early November might allow you to compete for interview slots in Dec/Jan. If you wait until Oct. 15-30, when only some schools release about 50-80 of early acceptances, by the time you submit to other schools it might be too late for an interview slot.
 
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Idk whether to put this here or on the interview invite thread or in the UTSW thread in the premed forums. But just a heads up for people with II's at UT Southwestern, I recently found out that UTSW is trying to change up their interview format this year. They used to only have 2-3 faculty interviews, and it was one of the easier interviews out there. But this year they're adding in student interviews as well and trying to make the whole thing a bit more formal. Lemme know if anyone has questions about the interviews or being in the UTSW MSTP. (3rd year here).
 
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Has there been a big lull in interview decisions recently or is it just me?
 
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Has there been a big lull in interview decisions recently or is it just me?
I’m hoping that’s the case as I’m sitting here with complete radio silence, but most likely people aren’t updating the threads/SDN users only represent a small portion of the pool.
 
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Many of our faculty are slow walking their evaluations of applications. MSTP T32 applications were due Sept 25, and R01 applications are due on October 5. Reviewing applications has been put on the back burner.
 
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R01 apps aren't due till the 5th? lol my PI was so antsy to get his out by this past Monday. It's his first R01 app ever so fingers crossed we get money
 
@Elephant_enthusiast I also feel that. I've been like a fish in a frying pan. Glad to hear there is legitimate reason for MSTP IIs to be given out a bit more slowly right now!
 
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R01 apps aren't due till the 5th? lol my PI was so antsy to get his out by this past Monday. It's his first R01 app ever so fingers crossed we get money
Your institution's grants office probably has an earlier deadline so they can perform their checks on the grant before it is submitted. Best of luck to him for a successful application!
 
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What is the general opinion about emailing faculty at programs that you are interested in working with? specifically, if that faculty is the director of the MD/PhD program that knows my PI personally, would it be considered inappropriate to email them about interest in the program and if they could consider my application? I haven’t heard from 75% of schools I applied to so I’m at the point where if it doesn’t hurt me I might as well try it.
 
What is the general opinion about emailing faculty at programs that you are interested in working with? specifically, if that faculty is the director of the MD/PhD program that knows my PI personally, would it be considered inappropriate to email them about interest in the program and if they could consider my application? I haven’t heard from 75% of schools I applied to so I’m at the point where if it doesn’t hurt me I might as well try it.

Maybe have your PI write or call on your behalf
 
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For anyone in an MSTP admissions office, I've been on a couple of interviews and just had a couple of questions on how different aspects impact the decisions:

1) How do interviews with non-admissions committee professors impact your admissions? I've had some great interviews, some decent, and some where the person simply talks about their research and I speak maybe a couple times (sometimes they even whip out their powerpoint to step me through everything....). I wasn't sure how much influence a good interview could have and what an interviewer that just talking about themselves could have.

2) My most recent interview group was pretty big and I only had a 10-15 minute interview with director of the program, so basically I really didn't have much opportunity to interact with the program directors. Can they really get a grasp of me, even my personality in that short amount of time? Or are they going to mostly work off my application?
 
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You only need one program to accept you. The problem is that only 20-50% of interviewees will ever be accepted at a given program. If you are choosing highly competitive programs with only 20% acceptees, then how many will be needed to land one acceptance. If you are doing less competitive, might be 2-3 is enough to feel good for getting one acceptance. Here is another issue... From submitting primary to AdCom review, it might take 4-6 weeks. If you submit today, getting a decision in early November might allow you to compete for interview slots in Dec/Jan. If you wait until Oct. 15-30, when only some schools release about 50-80 of early acceptances, by the time you submit to other schools it might be too late for an interview slot.


I think this is really good advice on the topic, but I'd add it's important to know yourself and to think about how you interveiw. I did know of a guy when I applied that had 15+ interviews, but ended up with only 1 waitlist (that thankfully turned into an acceptance). If you're not a strong interviewer, knowing that and scheduling a few extras isn't a bad thing.

On the other end of the spectrum, I wish this advice would've been out there when I applied. I spent a good chunk of money (that I really didnt have) on attending 12 of the 14 interviews I received and ended up with 12 acceptances. This is atypical and was partially created by having my IIs come essentially in reverse order of preference, but I spent a good amount of money and took interview spots I probably didn't need to.
 
For anyone in an MSTP admissions office, I've been on a couple of interviews and just had a couple of questions on how different aspects impact the decisions:

1) How do interviews with non-admissions committee professors impact your admissions? I've had some great interviews, some decent, and some where the person simply talks about their research and I speak maybe a couple times (sometimes they even whip out their powerpoint to step me through everything....). I wasn't sure how much influence a good interview could have and what an interviewer that just talking about themselves could have.

2) My most recent interview group was pretty big and I only had a 10-15 minute interview with director of the program, so basically I really didn't have much opportunity to interact with the program directors. Can they really get a grasp of me, even my personality in that short amount of time? Or are they going to mostly work off my application?

As you probably guessed, the impact of non-admissions committee interviews varies by program. At my institution, we view these interviews as serving both evaluation and recruiting purposes. As a result, candidates are likely to hear a lot about their interviewer's research. The feedback we get from these interviewers is usually only moderately helpful. We use a 5-point grading system, and the non-admissions committee interview scores average 4.5, while the admissions committee scores average 3.4. We know which faculty are rigorous in their evaluations (they tend to have served on our admissions committee & are better able to differentiate among candidates), and we give their feedback more weight.

My best advise is to be fully engaged in all your interviews, even those outside your field. View each interaction as an opportunity to learn something new, not solely as a chance to sell yourself to the interviewer.
 
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For those in MSTPs, which programs notify on or near October 15?
 
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I'm hoping NYU will if you interviewed in mid-September or earlier! They said it could be 3 weeks to months before your decision.

I believe Pitt will also send decisions soon

Sent from my SM-G950U using SDN mobile
 
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Just a follow-up question: how important is the interview overall before offering an acceptance? I enjoyed all my conversations with interviewers but find it hard to believe that they were that helpful to them.
As you probably guessed, the impact of non-admissions committee interviews varies by program. At my institution, we view these interviews as serving both evaluation and recruiting purposes. As a result, candidates are likely to hear a lot about their interviewer's research. The feedback we get from these interviewers is usually only moderately helpful. We use a 5-point grading system, and the non-admissions committee interview scores average 4.5, while the admissions committee scores average 3.4. We know which faculty are rigorous in their evaluations (they tend to have served on our admissions committee & are better able to differentiate among candidates), and we give their feedback more weight.

My best advise is to be fully engaged in all your interviews, even those outside your field. View each interaction as an opportunity to learn something new, not solely as a chance to sell yourself to the interviewer.

Sent from my LM-Q720 using SDN mobile
 
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